Home Topics in Depth Progressive Parties Security Experts Back Up Jill Stein

  • tiamat (627 posts)
    Profile photo of tiamat Donor

    Security Experts Back Up Jill Stein

    It’s about election integrity, not overturning the election. Some things must be said to enable a recount.

    I support the audits.

    Security Experts Back Up Jill Stein’s Demand for Manual Recount

    by Nadia Prupis, staff writer, Common Dreams November 29, 2016

    Security experts on Monday testified in support of Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein, who is spearheading a by-hand election recount initiative in Wisconsin.

    Unless a judge rules in her favor, the state will likely allow its 72 counties to decide whether they want to conduct the process manually or by machine. On Monday, a group of academics and other specialists agreed with Stein’s argument that an automated recount would risk an incorrect tally. President-elect Donald Trump won Wisconsin 47.9 percent to Democratic rival Hillary Clinton’s 46.9 percent—a margin of just over 22,000 votes.

    A manual count would be the only way to ensure that there had been no foreign interference, the experts said.

    “It is not possible to determine with certainty the absence of malicious software hiding within what might appear to be many thousands of lines of legitimate software code,” Poorvi Vora, a professor at George Washington University, wrote in an affidavit (pdf) on Monday.

    In another affidavit, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor Ronald Rivest quoted (pdf) the famous proverb, “Trust, but verify.”

    “We have learned the hard way that almost any computer system can be broken into by a sufficiently determined, skillful, and persistent adversary,” he said.

    And professor Philip Stark of the University of California at Berkeley noted (pdf) that Wisconsin should not rule out simple software problems with the ballot scanning machines.

    “The amount of error required to alter the outcome can easily be less than the error that an optical scan system makes in inferring and tabulating voter intent from the ballots or other paper record,” he wrote. “For instance, the software may miss a light or incomplete mark, interpreting it as an undervote, whereas a human being inspecting the paper record would see the voter’s intent clearly.”

    “To determine whether the reported winner actually won requires verifying the results as accurately as possible, which in turn requires manually examining the underlying paper records,” he said.

    Stein is also pushing for election recounts in Michigan and Pennsylvania. Although the deadline to request a per-precinct recount reportedly passed on November 21, Stein’s campaign sued Pennsylvania on Monday to initiate a statewide recount. The campaign will also request a manual recount in Michigan on Wednesday, the last day to do so. Michigan certified Trump as its winner on Monday.

    By Monday, Stein had raised nearly $7 million for the effort—although she tweeted on Tuesday that Wisconsin would charge $3.5 million for a recount, “an outrageous increase from the initial estimate of $1.1M.”

    “Americans deserve a voting system we can trust,” Stein said. “After a presidential election tarnished by the use of outdated and unreliable machines and accusations of irregularities and hacks, people of all political persuasions are asking if our election results are reliable. We must recount the votes so we can build trust in our election system. We need to verify the vote in this and every election so that Americans of all parties can be sure we have a fair, secure, and accurate voting system.”

    This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License

    disillusioned73, PADemD, Downwinder like this

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

▼ Hide Reply Index
13 replies
  • Billy (1979 posts)
    Profile photo of Billy Banned

    Oh, “experts” back the recount up. Yeah, them “experts” knows their shit. Lol

    • tiamat (627 posts)
      Profile photo of tiamat Donor

      2. Why do you disagree that the paper trail must be examined?

      The experts are named.

      • Billy (1979 posts)
        Profile photo of Billy Banned

        I don’t disagree. I find it funny when the old. “Experts” tactic is used to gain support for someone viewpoint or actions.

        • tiamat (627 posts)
          Profile photo of tiamat Donor

          7. The experts testified before the judge. Oh so funny.

          • Billy (1979 posts)
            Profile photo of Billy Banned

            Self proclaimed experts, are used all the time. Well, in my expert opinion the experts are usually full of shit. See how easy it is to be an expert? It’s almost stupid as the ” god agrees with me so I must he right” tactic or the “Hiltler done it too” tactic.

            • tiamat (627 posts)
              Profile photo of tiamat Donor

              12. Why not read their credentials before judging.

              You can continue to tell me I am full of crap but I am done responding to you. So much for expecting this to be a progressive board.

  • ensemble (3 posts)
    Profile photo of ensemble

    3. hmmm…

    I guess a machine recount could detect domestic interference, but not foreign interference.  

    • Silver Witch (3079 posts)
      Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

      5. Made me smile and I have a headache. Thank you.

      Use your energy, resources and time more wisely to create a better world instead of falling for and spreading all this oligarch generated hysteria. ~Dont call me Shirley Science 101. Just do it…. and hope you live through it and can report about it. ~So Far From Heaven
  • Silver Witch (3079 posts)
    Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

    6. Why a recount in just these states??

    why not ALL states in all cities through out the U.S.?

    Really why here???

    Use your energy, resources and time more wisely to create a better world instead of falling for and spreading all this oligarch generated hysteria. ~Dont call me Shirley Science 101. Just do it…. and hope you live through it and can report about it. ~So Far From Heaven
    • tiamat (627 posts)
      Profile photo of tiamat Donor

      8. These states were close and it costs millions and millions.

      Apparently, there has to be a chance the results will change.  I do not think anyone really believes this, but it is necessary in order to have a recount.  I believe most involved are looking to prove/disprove the reliabilty of the reported results vs machine’s recorded votes.  We are looking to the future.  I do not understand why so many people are against an audit (called recount due to no other choice).

      • Silver Witch (3079 posts)
        Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

        9. I am only "against" it because it is stunt.

        If anyone doing the audit really cared about voter fraud it would be different.

        Let’s say the vote is off by just 10 what then?

        Or perhaps it will be off by 1,000 should we recount all states???

        I honestly don’t believe it will be off by 10,000’s of thousands but in that event I shall happily eat crow and prepare for chaos.

        Use your energy, resources and time more wisely to create a better world instead of falling for and spreading all this oligarch generated hysteria. ~Dont call me Shirley Science 101. Just do it…. and hope you live through it and can report about it. ~So Far From Heaven
        • tiamat (627 posts)
          Profile photo of tiamat Donor

          11. It is good you have confidence in our election system.

          Most of the people involved in the “recount” claim their motivation is to give the American people confidence their votes are all counted and accurately.  If it is proven that the machines flipped votes, maybe we could get a full recount, but I think the point is to get back to an honest voting system.

          • Silver Witch (3079 posts)
            Profile photo of Silver Witch Donor

            13. It would be good if we could return to honesty.

            That of course assumes it ever was fair or honest. Which of course it never has been.

            Only landed white men could vote originally so fair and equal was never the plan.

            Use your energy, resources and time more wisely to create a better world instead of falling for and spreading all this oligarch generated hysteria. ~Dont call me Shirley Science 101. Just do it…. and hope you live through it and can report about it. ~So Far From Heaven