Snort McDork (1556 posts)March 5, 2017 at 1:18 pm
Went to Our Revolution meeting yesterday
Me and another person brought the issue of going to a Third Party. But it seems crazy that people think they can change the Dems from within. That was the strategy. At least the moderator/host seemed to think that way. I never got a chance to bring up the issue of how corrupt they are. So its a 50/50 chance of going 3rd party. Didn’t have time to discuss the 14 million Dems who left the party. Don’t why these people want to beat their head against the wall.disillusioned73, BiaviiansGalore, dreamnightwind and 7 othersMom Cat, DesertRat2015, 7wo7rees, Pangolino, Cleita, Hari, djean111 like this
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oldandhappy (2857 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 1:26 pm
1. Well, speaking out of both sides of my mouth–
I did DemExit. I will vote Dem where I can but only for progressive candidates. I would like to see us vote out every old style politician in the country from the bottom up and replace with progressives. I have watched the Green party. Seems really difficult to get a third party going. So — I left the party. I will remain independent the rest of my life. I will vote Dem where I can. I will not give them a red cent. Not sure what you do with me. The third party thing is not easy. Are you involved with that effort? I have no hope on third party but will listen.
Hari (1031 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 1:27 pm
2. I hope to make the next meeting.
Changing the party from “within” seems to be the latest DNC mantra. One would think that the loss of 14 million would provoke Some lively discussions at Our Revolution.
Scuba (2343 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 2:23 pm
Pangolino (139 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 2:59 pm
4. Thanks for the update, and for going to the meeting to begin with.
I find these things maddening sometimes – it can be so easy to get marginalized. I wish I had the skills to make sure I can be heard in these situations. Sometimes it may take risking getting thrown out with something prepared enough to be effective*, but there are probably other ways to move these conversations where they need to go that aren’t as confrontational. Thanks.
*like the people who yelled “NO TPP!” at the Democratic Convention and actually got heard on TV while Obama was speaking – that was Udo Dirkschneider-level badass
mmonk (527 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 3:24 pm
5. No problem. View yourself outside the system. We need a one two punch.
One from the inside. One from the outside. Maximum pressure. My two cents.
Port tack 8 (527 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 3:41 pm
6. I'm with you on change from within
Look what they did to Bernie and then Keith. They will cheat if they have to, to win. I just don’t want to see all this time and energy only to lose, time after time. Then they will just tell us to fall inline with the corp candidate, and we start all over. I personally am done with all of it. But I guess we all to do everything it takes.
Mom Cat (6098 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 6:17 pm
7. I had a similar experience at a meeting here. They seemed fixed on supporting
only candidates from the Democrats or the Republicans. They shut down every conversation about third parties. I have not gone back.NEVER FORGET BERNIE WON!
jeff47 (667 posts) (Reply to original post) March 5, 2017 at 7:37 pm
8. Making a new party is actually the longer and harder road.
There’s a ton of infrastructure built by the Democratic party that they get to use in every election. Contact lists. Volunteers. Candidate recruitment. Fundraising groups. County party apparatus in every county. A spot on the ballot in every single race. Not considered “wasting your vote” by the general public. And a billion other things.
That’s not easy nor quick to build. It will take an enormous effort by millions to build up that kind of infrastructure and it will take many election cycles to do so.
So yes, the Democratic leadership is corrupt as fuck. But kicking them to the curb is still faster. It’s also inevitable. GenX and Millennials aren’t on board with the leadership, so it’s pretty much a matter of time before the leadership no longer has a choice in the matter.
All that being said, we still need the third party efforts. If my thinking is correct, those efforts provide leverage to wrest control of the party. If my thinking is incorrect, then that new party is the only option.
Political revolutions take time. They only seem rapid afterwords. The “Reagan revolution” started in the late 1950s. It was only in 1980 that they finally seized power.
Post Removed (841 posts) (Reply to jeff47 - post #8) March 5, 2017 at 7:42 pm
Snort McDork (1556 posts) (Reply to Post Removed - post #9) March 5, 2017 at 9:08 pm
10. Thankfully that ain't going to happen.
But as our host said yesterday we need to have large gatherings. Strength in numbers. That’s what its going to take. And I think thats a true statement. I really would love to see a 3rd party. As Jeff mentioned, it would give us some leverage. We need that desperately.
RealityCheck (533 posts) (Reply to Snort McDork - post #10) March 6, 2017 at 7:53 am
11. Appreciate your OR attendence and 3rd party enthusiasm SMD
Keeping pressure on is very key! The DNC hopes that us revolutionaries wear down and give up. DON’T let that happen!!!!! For me, it’s 3rd party or bust! I hate bust!!
rallison (61 posts) (Reply to jeff47 - post #8) March 6, 2017 at 7:34 pm
13. I am really not sure
third party is harder. If (a big if) voting integrity can be established, third party would work. How many states did HRC legitimately win? It now looks like California was stolen too. I really don’t know which way to go but I do know we do have the numbers. Working from the within the DNC gives them great power. Working outside of their structure takes that power away. I don’t know the answer.
MyDogsBFF (14 posts) (Reply to original post) March 6, 2017 at 10:09 am
12. Thanks for the reminder and inspiration …
I need to get a local meeting soon and will report back."When too many Americans don't vote or participate, some see apathy and despair. I see disappointment and even outrage. And I believe that out of this frustration can come hope and action." - Paul Wellstone
Bernin4U (498 posts) (Reply to original post) March 9, 2017 at 7:18 am
14. Point 1: Bernie himself is not even a Democrat, goddammit
He ran for president as one only because it would have been destructive for both sides (him and the Dems) if he didn’t. Which is why the Dems had no choice but to allow it. And what harm, since their winning candidate was already chosen before he even announced?
But Bernie only announced in 2015, and only did it because the existing choices were unacceptable. Now there’s far more time, opening up a much broader opportunity to build something from the ground up.
Point 2: The Dems have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they will resist any change. They see that they did/do no wrong, and instead put the blame for their loss squarely on our shoulders. In essence, OurRevolution is their enemy. They are still convinced that their “lesser evil” strategy which failed so miserably in 2016, will eventually pan out because we will return to them, tail between legs, and the party will once again be whole.
Point 3 (The “Jimmy Dore argument”): It’s becoming increasingly questionable (at best) if the Dems are even in it to win it. Too much evidence shows that this fight is fixed, and they’re getting paid to take a fall. That their playbook is right out of the Washington Generals. (The Harlem Globetrotters wouldn’t get very far if they didn’t have an opposing team to make monkeys of.) So we should put our money on the side that’s paid to lose?
Until very recently, I was “fix from within”‘s biggest fan. But now it’s only looking like a fool’s errand.
Does it mean the Democratic Party can’t be saved? Maybe, maybe not.
What I do know is that something really big could happen really fast. And with no budget. How do I know? Because Bernie’s already proven it.
The results could be a new 3rd party, or maybe even a new Dem party, rising from the ashes. What it’s going to be called isn’t really important, because this is no longer about the branding, now it’s all about policy for the 99%.