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Cannabis on JPR

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I'm voting no on 64.

  • Gregorian (1160 posts)
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    I'm voting no on 64.

    I think it’s too flawed. It’s going to pass. But it criminalizes under 21, and a bunch of other stuff that it’s mostly in this video-

    Babel 17, glowing, The Crone like this

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28 replies
    • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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      1. Do you really think a bill alowing kids to buy MJ would pass?

      Would you want it to?

      Want to let kids buy cigarettes and booze too? 

      I usually agree with Jimmy Dore.  But he’s being a dumbass on this one.  I don’t know if he’s trying to be funny…. or what he’s thinking.  But he’s talking complete BS and I don’t appreciate it.

      ““Prop. 64 reduces almost every penalty for cannabis possession, use, cultivation and transportation,” Amanda Reiman, Manager of Marijuana Law and Policy at the Drug Policy Alliance, told The Marijuana Times. “It also removes criminal penalties for marijuana activities committed by minors, instead giving them counseling and drug education, with their records being destroyed at age 18.”

      There you have it!  No increased “criminalization” for minors.

      • The Crone (2226 posts)
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        6. Aren't you aware that Gov Schwartzenegger de-criminalized

        Cannabis  for everyone? So why bring back penalties we have already gotten rid of?

        Already this state lives under the shame that three thousand children are inmates of the state prison system for not paying penalties and fees that they could not pay, relating to some legal action taken against them. So when Jim and his guest are discussing this, it is wise to realize that penalties can exist that affect our youth, especially our youth of color.

        "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
        • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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          7. What penalties are they "bringing back?

          Where do you get the idea that they are going to imprison kids under this new proposition?

          Jimmy Dore really made a stupid and irresponsible statement that just plain NONSENSE!

          ““Prop. 64 reduces almost every penalty for cannabis possession, use, cultivation and transportation,” Amanda Reiman, Manager of Marijuana Law and Policy at the Drug Policy Alliance, told The Marijuana Times. “It also removes criminal penalties for marijuana activities committed by minors, instead giving them counseling and drug education, with their records being destroyed at age 18.”

          • The Crone (2226 posts)
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            8. So what happens to the youth who are 19, or 20? n/t

            "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
            • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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              9. I suspect the same fine they would receive now.

              Nothing in the bill about increased criminalization.

    • zoolook67 (278 posts)
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      2. Yeah, but think about the adults who

      will NOT be hassled, arrested, ripped-off, dehumanized or shot because of this flawed law.

      Living well is the best revenge.
      • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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        3. Think of the adults in prison now who may be freed after legalization.

        That statement by Jimmy Dore was really stupid.

    • The Crone (2226 posts)
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      4. I thought I was the lone voice crying out

      Against this monstrosity of a bill. Glad to know I have you as company, Gregorian.

      (And thanks for the video as well.)

      "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
    • Hobbit709 (1218 posts)
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      5. Alcohol is criminal for under 21 too. What about tobacco? Stupid reason.

      I won't shut up and I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing
    • The Crone (2226 posts)
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      10. Another concern I have –

      During Prohibition, the Federal Government created the alcohol, tobacco and firearms agency (ATF)

      Even after prohibition this agency was used to make sure that no one had stills up and operating, or that if they did, they did not produce more than X gallons of spirits a year. The agency made sure that various licenses were in palce, that taxes were paid and all the rest of it.

      So if we are to be taxed for each plant we grow, will the state government not feel it necessary to create some agency similar to the ATF to sniff around our property and decide how many plants we really are growing etc?

      "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
      • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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        11. Where does it say the individual will be taxed for each plant they grow?

        If you are selling your plants….. then YES!  You will be taxed and regulated.

        Are you planning on going into business.

        BTW – You can “gift” up to 1 oz. (28 gm.) to a legal adult in the state.

        Why do you want to vote against your own best interests?

         

        • The Crone (2226 posts)
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          12. Because I do not see it being in anyone's interests.

          Especially given  that several weeks back, you put up the entire wording  of the bill itself, and that legalese was totally scary to me.

          Especially the section toward the end that read, in layman’s terms, “well, folks, we don’t have a lot of this figured out, but let’s have the legislature fill in the aspects of it that what we haven’t yet bothered with.”

          As I pointed out to you at the time – that makes the entire concept of this bill a moot point. For it is therefore not Constitutional! Under the instructions offered to us by the Calif Constitution, when the legislature is presented on any proposition that has been passed by the will of the voters, is not supposed to significantly alter the wording of that initiative. Yet  right in the wording of the bill, the bill’s authors  proclaim that they don’t know what is really going to be in it! When this bill passes, I guarantee you that parts or all of this bill will have to be settled by a decade’s worth of legal undertakings in  our courts.

          "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
          • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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            13. You've probably studied law…….

            So you can tell me where Prop 64 proposes any legislation that would violate the Constitution of the State of California.

            No.   There won’t be major legal setbacks.  There simply isn’t the political will to do so.

            • The Crone (2226 posts)
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              14. You can say that now, but I bet you within five years,

              You will come to rue the day this piece of shit legislation became law.

              If this state had a legislature of the caliber of Vermont, I would agree with you. But our legislature has been bought out so many ways it is not funny.

              Do you remember a few years back, all the Single Payer Universal HC for All in Calif needed was two more  damn votes? And newly elected legislators, both of them Dems, were bought and paid for and they voted against Single Payer. A decade of hard work by dedicated activists down the drain.

              If you don’t think that Big Pharma will come here with a  boat load of lobbyists, all of them with suitcoats lined with moolah, to buy out the legislators and have them shape the final product to their profit-oriented  interests, then I don’t know what to tell you.

              I mean I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

              "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
              • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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                15. I think Big Pharma has already lost on this one…….

                Where I foresee a fight is with the agribusinesses trying to tweak the legislation down the road to gain advantage and the private prison industry fighting to keep up occupancy in their hotels.

                You’re right…… we’ll see.  But it would be hard to make Prop 64 a sweeter deal than it already is ……and still be in a form that would have a chance of passing.

                 

      • Gregorian (1160 posts)
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        16. That's actually my biggest concern, whether it's this bill or not.

        It’s just a plant. And it’s not only not harmful, but it’s beneficial. And driving is unaffected, if not improved, according to the study Jimmy Dore mentioned, and another I have seen, years ago.

        And I’m also completely against any taxation. It’s a plant. Why not tomatoes? Why not Shitake mushrooms? They’re expensive. Is it the cost of the plant, or the fact that it used to be considered illegal, that justifies taxing? If you want money, take it from the military. They already have my taxes.

         

        • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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          17. Grow six plants yourself…… tax free!

          OR …. you can vote against your own self interest.

          • Gregorian (1160 posts)
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            18. Don't buy the bullshit.

            It’s bullshit.

            I should elaborate. This buys into two types of thinking: Incremental change, and comparison. The bill sounds great, compared to cannabis being illegal. But the change that should be made is removing any illegal status. Period. Anything else is added bullshit. (If someone wants to grow cannabis as a business, that’s another story.)  There’s more arguments, but I want to read Podesta emails now.

            • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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              19. Or get a friend to "gift" you an ounce TAX FREE!

              That’s all in Prop 64.

              But there’s always that option to vote against your own self interest.

              • Gregorian (1160 posts)
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                20. Sorry. Not buying it.

                • The Crone (2226 posts)
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                  21. And I am not buying it either. What

                  Would be so hard about simply admitting prohibition accomplished nothing, and that from now on, marijuana is legal.

                  "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
                  • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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                    22. It will be legal………

                    Just like beer and cigarettes.

                    And like beer and cigarettes…….. don’t put joints in your kid’s school lunch box.

                    • The Crone (2226 posts)
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                      23. Bwhahahahaha!! n/t

                      "Let us not seek the Republican answer nor the Democratic answer but the right answer." John F. Kennedy   America is the only country that has real   lemons in its furniture polish, and artificial lemon flavoring  in its lemonade!
                      • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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                        24. I get the impression you don't want responsible rec cannabis to pass.

                        Maybe it’s not in your best interest for some reason.

                      • Sebastopolitan (417 posts)
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                        25. It's the whole "Stoners Against Legalization" thing.

                        Thankfully, they and their de facto allies in law enforcement lost.

                      • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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                        26. The weird alliance between the illegal pot growers and the prohibitionists!

                        Illegal pot growers fought like hell to keep cannabis illegal so they could continue to have their monopoly and continue to rake in the dough.

                         

            • Sebastopolitan (417 posts)
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              27. Gee, maybe you can do your own initiative.

              In the meantime, we’ll enjoy legal weed in California. Providing, of course, that Trump doesn’t try to take it away.

              • Jan Boehmermann (1637 posts)
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                28. Trump wouldn't dare try!

                And WHY would he want to?