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Today's historiography giggle only a fellow nerd could appreciate

  • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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    Today's historiography giggle only a fellow nerd could appreciate

    Doing paperwork at home and have the tv on in the background (idk why but I work better with a nice documentary on) and I had a Lucy Worsley program on called “British History’s Biggest Fibs” and they were talking about the “interpretation” (yes they were being kind) of history, in this case Tudor, by Victorian historians.  I was only listening (spreadsheets, ugh) when I happened to look up and notice that the cc was on and the words that appeared at the bottom of the screen was “wig history”.

    After I ROTFLMAOed, I envisaged a bald bunch of guys at a podium in a lecture hall, discussing the evolution of the word periwig.

    I told you I was a nerd.

    Enthusiast, Cleita, Haikugal and 1 otherzazen like this

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    • zazen (261 posts)
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      1. Did Lucy then say "Torwee?" I love all her docs and her R's.

      She’s like my TV-virtual friend. It’s sad! And her speech impediment is adorable (as are her fashion sense, and brains, and sense of humor).

      I’ve got BBC documentaries running in the b/g right now too, all free on Youtube. Love them. I’m sure I’ve watched 200 in the past year. This morning it’s been Bettany Hughes on Thera/Atlantis and now John Romer on Byzantium.

      Part 1 of Lucy’s new program came out last Thursday and I looked for it all day Friday but the only version that was watchable was on by Saturday with the speech translation. The new episode on BBC will be on Thursday, about the Glorious Revolution.

      I love all of her documentaries but I have to say, I was disappointed in the recent “Six Wives,” because it had a lot of inaccuracies. I know that period inside and out from a lot of scholarly reading and I couldn’t believe they were hyping parts of it. It made me wonder what else she’s gotten wrong. But her History of Romance, History of the Home, and the Royal Bedroom are my faves!

      • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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        2. Watching History of the Home right now

        I don’t think she has a speech impediment, she’s got a very specific English accent. Although so many British women historians seem to have speech impediments – Helen Castor, Janina Ramirez – even Susannah Lipscomb has a slight one that seems like she’s worked to overcome a lisp.

        Still, I agree about Lucy (love her wardrobe too! I buy my work clothes at Boden though so no surprise there!) and I especially agree about the Six Wives cockup. It was awful (or “awfuw” as Lucy would say). However, if you ever want to listen to someone who is on telly all the time talking about Tudor history (I double majored in History/Art History with a concentration in Tudor history) and seems to have learnt everything she knows from watching that awful Tudors docudrama several years back, it’s Philippa Gregory. Philippa Fucking Gregory. Every time I’ve seen her in anything I end up screaming at the telly because she just gets it wrong, SO MUCH WRONG.  I mean the one thing you’re supposed to do as a historian (which I know she isn’t but she puts herself out there as one) is look for PRIMARY SOURCES, right?  Well that lesson seems to have passed her by; I’ve seen her on several different documentaries now talking about how Anne Boleyn’s last miscarried fetus was deformed. No credible evidence suggests this; no extent letters or documentation suggests so and in fact, it wasn’t even mentioned till 50 years after the fact by, i believe, the doctor’s daughter who was a toddler at the time. Gregory has now spread this stupidity through the shitty book “The Other Boleyn Girl”, which I read about 20 pages of and threw against a wall.

        My husband won’t watch historical dramas with me because I will sit there and pick at every little inaccuracy (clothes, timeline, dialogue). He’s still traumatized by the time we watched the second “Elizabeth” with me…the first one was bad enough but the second one nearly drove me to a nervous breakdown.

        Hmmm. Maybe I take this all a bit too seriously.

        • zazen (261 posts)
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          4. OMG, an online soulmate! I walked out of the first Elizabeth movie

          I know the 6-part 1970 Elizabeth by heart (as I do the Six Wives with Keith Michell).  I had them both on VHS (along with I, Claudius) before streaming came along. Glenda Jackson is the only actress who’s managed to come close, IMO, to Elizabeth’s reported character of brilliant, cautious, vain, high-strung, and capricious (and Helen Mirren did a decent job of it in the HBO two-part series, which is the only performance that comes close). The “Virgin Queen” series made her way too insecure as well–I forget the name of that actress. The Elizabeth movies (well, I only saw half of the first one before I walked out) were awful.

          I detest the pandering anachronisms of some period piece productions, when they spend a fortune getting what they think are the “production” values right but don’t try to get into the heads of how people felt, talked, and even physically carried themselves back then. The recent Victoria is like that–every time I catch a few minutes of it they’re hyping something to make people in 2017 feel good, instead of allowing space and dignity for the reality and complexity of these people to speak to us (or at least aspire to speak to us–it’s always a contemporary construction, but some do it much better than others). Even the 1999 Victoria and Albert with Victoria Hamilton tried to capture the self-restraint in which they lived, as did Judi Dench in Mrs. Brown.

          The Crown on Netflix manages to capture the psychology of the 1950s a lot better. I think Claire Foy really mis-read Anne Boleyn in Wolf Hall, but she’s great in the Crown.

          Actually, I didn’t know Phillipa Gregory (yes, not an historian) did anything with Retha Warnicke’s theory about the deformed fetus. I actually have a book from the late 80s (by Warnicke–a respected scholar) precisely about that theory and there seemed to be some merit to it, though Warnicke herself has backed off of it. Some of her arguments in that book were really plausible (about the connection of deformity to witches, and how the people brought down with her weren’t really her “faction” but rather associated with what we’d now call bisexuality and thus part of convincing the world that Anne was a witch associated with buggery and Henry couldn’t have had any responsibility for a deformed fetus). I never knew the theory was popularized!

          We should share lists of documentaries and period films. I have them on 24/7 now that I won’t even have C-SPAN on, let alone any mainstream news. Be well!

          • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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            23. Lol on Retha Warnicke

            I was decidedly in the Eric Ives camp on the Anne Boleyn fetus war.  Which now I think of it, I should go re-read his books. He was amazing. They don’t make them like him anymore.

             

      • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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        3. PS – if you haven't seen Bethany Hughes Ancient Worlds

        The one on the Minoans (dovetails nicely with the Atlantis documentary) is fabulous. That whole series is (and I love the music from it too). Also if you have a roku, you can add film on to the channel line up and watch BBC 4 live. It’s more than 4 but that’s the one I watch most of the time as I’m sure you would too.  It’s fwee (Lucy Worsley voice)!

        Anyway, Fellow Nerd, here is the link for the one I mentioned above if you haven’t seen it (though I’m supposing you have).

        • zazen (261 posts)
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          6. I've seen most of it–I have a girl-crush on Bettany Hughes!

          Otherwise, I’m really straight, but she’s just wonderful. :-)

          I’m always due for a re-watch, though, since I really just skimmed them.

          She has a seven part series on the History of Britain that counters that other one that only began with the Roman invasion. You can’t find it on YouTube but you can on Daily Motion. She actually spends two episodes on pre-Roman Britain.

          Another fave is Michael Wood and his People’s History of Britain. It’s addictive.

          • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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            21. I love Michael Wood swooooon

            I’ve had a crush on him for so long that is ridiculous.

            I think I’ve seen all Bethany’s documentaries, and I think they’re still on youtube too.

            Okay you’ll appreciate the nerd factor here – so I’ve had a really interesting career, worked in film and stage production as well as the arts so I’ve met a lot of “stars” and I’m so not star-struck at all. Until one day…

            It was a Friday before Memorial Day about 9 years ago, and my then-boyfriend picked me up at the train station and I demanded he take me right to the liquor store so I could begin my quest to get sozzled.  Off we go, he stays in the car and I pop into the wine shop.  So I walk in and catch a familiar visage in my peripheral vision. Since I am about 1 mile from where I lived at the time, I initially shrugged it off but then, without looking in his direction again, I start to go through the visual rolodex in my head to match the face.

            And it occurs to me who it is. And I can’t resist the pull of the tractor-beam which is sucking me toward this person.

            I begin my introduction by telling him out of character it is for me to gush, but I couldn’t let the opportunity pass and had to tell him how much I loved several of his books and right at that very moment one of his documentaries was sitting in my dvd player and that was the planned entertainment for the evening (all true).  He was so nice, we chatted a bit, he told me what he was working on and talked about the area, to which he was new, and had a nice little chat.  We walked together to the register and he paid for his stuff, and was off.

            The clerk, who I knew pretty well, said “say, Dorky, I’ve never seen you that excited to talk to anyone, who the hell was that guy? He’s in here all the time lately and no one has ever spoken to him before, but you were talking to him like he was a rock star. Was he a rock star?” When I told him “it was none other than Simon Schama’ he said “who the hell is that?”

            • zazen (261 posts)
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              24. what a GREAT story! mine's weird too, but JPR-relevant . . .

              Schama seems so interesting and is so handsome/witty too. How cool.

              So, I had occasion to go to the WH a few times and other events for a few years and everyone would want to know what is it like to meet O and B and blah blah and talk to movie stars and these VIPs and I was like, meh, whatever, and never sufficiently starstruck for people around me. So, the  _only_ person(s) I ever went up to, introduced myself to and gushed over were Bernie and his wife, who were standing all alone, being ignored by the minglers, at a WH X-mas party. I was like, I’m a progressive from a red state and I’m so grateful for your leadership and I’m so frustrated with corporate Dems and their ignorance of economic inequality and I hope you keep it up and we desperately need strong visionaries like you. I was thrilled. I tried to convince my pol-friend, who said, “of _all_ the people you’ve met you singled out them?”–that Bernie’s politics were the future, but he was having none of it at the time.

              I’d like to think that my enthusiastic endorsement convinced him to run three years later. ;-)  . . . Maybe one day he’ll say, my wife and I were standing alone at this WH x-mas party, and this animated, effusive Southern blonde in a second-hand ball gown came up with a sloshing glass of champagne and started gushing over me, and the rest is history! Yeah, right, but we can dream . . . .

              At least I have good instincts.

              • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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                25. WOW! How wonderful!

                Honestly I don’t think I could handle meeting Bernie…I think I’d take one look at his kind face and start crying.  Won’t do to break character from my normally tough as nails ballsy Bronx chick. There was a time in the primaries when some of his campaign staff were talking about bringing him into my restaurant during a phone banking session. I usually had one of my staff hang around to help but I made them go home for that one because I thought “if I cry I don’t want anyone who works for me to see what a blubbering mush I really am”.

                • zazen (261 posts)
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                  26. yeah, well this was five years ago–I'd probably cry now too! n/t

        • Jan Boehmermann (2415 posts)
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          27. I stayed up to about 2:30 am watching that Bethany Hughes documentary!

          It was THAT GOOD!

          Thanks for posting.

          • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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            28. Pretty fucking good wasn't it?

            Hate to tell you this, my friend, but there is an entire series :)  IMHO this one is the best of the lot but they’re all worth a watch.

            • Jan Boehmermann (2415 posts)
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              29. Err mah gerd! I'll be up late tonight too.

              Binge watching “The Ancient Worlds”.

              The advantage of being retired is ….. I can stay up as late as I want to …… and sleep in…. no problem.

              Thanks again.

    • Haikugal (4641 posts)
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      5. BBC Documentary is my favorite search. BBC historical documentary is next…I go

      to BBC Paleontology, BBC Paleoanthropology…and so it goes. All things BBC.

      Not a speech impediment? Wow…are you sure? She has a kind of Babawawa sound to her I think but I watch her documentaries anyway.

      The Roku would let me watch British TV???

      Thanks for the video, I’m not sure if I’ve seen that one.

      :hi:

      On edit: For those like myself who have NO idea what Dorkzilla is referring to with her nerdy periwig remark…I looked it up so you don’t have to!

      http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-periwig.htm

      A periwig is a style of wig popular between the 17th and 19th centuries, particularly in men’s fashions. The word is believed to be a corruption of the French term perruque, commonly called the peruke. The periwig was a vital fashion piece of upper-class French and British households, and played a part in maintaining some sort of hygienic standard. The modern term for a hairpiece, wig, is believed to have developed from periwigs.

        Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
      • zazen (261 posts)
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        7. on Roku, pick the "Youtube" button and then search for BBC docs that way

        Some are blocked but there are thousands that are not. They’re usually on within a week of the first showing on BBC, and lots of old ones are there too, although a few are famously not (Simon Schama’s History of Britain, e.g.) Others are on with some “flaw” so that they’re not picked up by search engines (like a little fast, or not a full shot, or a background that is busy, but they’re usually tolerable, esp if it’s free).

        Acorn TV, an add-on through Amazon Prime, has several as well. And as I mentioned above, DailyMotion has some too, though they’re harder to search.

        • Haikugal (4641 posts)
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          9. Thanks Zazen! I don't have a Roku but my son does..I have two versions of

          Appletv and an enabled tv so I can look up almost anything and stream it if I everything else fails…lol

          I’ve never heard of Daily Motion.

          Who knows what our lovable Dorkzilla was referring to…LOL

          My iPad had a brain fart and posted before I was finished…sorry!

            Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
          • zazen (261 posts)
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            11. you should have a Youtube button on there as well; it's like clicking on Netflix

            You just have to go to your Apple TV menu and “add” a “Youtube” button, like you would Netflix or “Pandora.” You can manage Youtube from an account on your computer. Unfortunately, you have to logon through Google, which means there’s a record of the docs you watch. But you can subscribe to a lot of people’s “channels” from all over the world. That includes lots of channels from university centers, so you can watch conference talks, lectures, classes, etc. I’ve watched the whole Yale course on the Early Middle Ages, for example, and there’s a lecture series from U Chicago’s Oriental Institute with talks by leading historians on topics on Ancient History (like the historiography of late antiquity and the “fall” of the Western Roman Empire, one of my faves.)

            Also, there are history nerds like us who have uploaded all of these documentaries and period movies onto their “channels” and you can find all sorts of obscure BBC docs you never knew existed. You can find these easily and stream them from your TV.

            Daily Motion has something similar and can probably be added as a button on Apple TV.

            • Haikugal (4641 posts)
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              14. I have Youtube and Amazon on the new appletv but the one in the bedroom is

              First generation and unsupported. I stream from the iPad in there if I want to watch either.

              Wow, I love listening to lectures on paleontology that I’ve found on youtube…thanks for the heads up! I need to do more research!!

              I check Daily Motion (what a name :rofl: ) and it looks like something I’ll enjoy, thanks again!

                Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
          • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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            13. I was referring to a fwee woku channew

            Fow watching Engwish telly –

            https://www.rokuguide.com/private-channels/filmontv

            If you want the premium version here is the link – I have both just in case – this one is $1.99 a month.

            https://channelstore.roku.com/details/90114/uktv

            • Haikugal (4641 posts)
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              16. Oh now you've done it…have to commandeer son's Roku and check this out!!!

              You’ve captured the wawa perfectly :rofl:

                Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
            • zazen (261 posts)
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              19. ooooh—-now wou've done it! like I need anothuwa way to escape. . .

            • zazen (261 posts)
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              20. ha! The BBC-TV on the Roku search is for Berachah Baptist Church!

              I’ll use your links. Thanks.

      • zazen (261 posts)
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        8. oh, I thought she was referring to Whig history! my bad.

        • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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          12. LOL I WAS!! They were talking about Whig history…

          but the close caption said “wig history”. It was hil-ar-i-ous. To me.

      • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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        17. Apart from spending a lot of time there, I worked at both English auction houses

        the latter meant I spent a wot of time with uppew cwust Enwish people who aww went to pubwic school and had that odd r/w thing (ever meet a man who went to Eton as a kid?). They also had something in common with New Yorkers (guttersnipes from the boroughs no less) in that they would add a “r” to the end of a word that wasn’t there (lawr = law, pizzer=pizza).

        Oh and in case you’re wondewing, for the most part they (the Etonians and all) were incredibly nice people who didn’t put on airs, probably because their ego was about their knowledge about the art and objects. I still miss it.

         

        • Haikugal (4641 posts)
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          18. Sounds fascinating and about that added R on the end…my mother used to do that

          and she was from Australia…used to crack me up. My mother was never as funny as my Nan though, oh my how she would make me laugh! Loved that crazy woman!

          You should write a book..I’d read it!!

            Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
    • RadicleFantast (1075 posts)
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      10. Wig History! Maybe not BBC

      but I can see the History Channel doing it.
      Hair to the Throne: The Secret Society of the Wig from Djoser to The Donald!

      Don’t worry too much about primary sources, though; video special effects will make up for that.

      For you who dwell on many waters, rich in treasure, wide in fame, who bow unto your god of gold: your pride of might shall be your shame.
      • Haikugal (4641 posts)
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        15. LOL!!!

          Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
      • dorkzilla (2240 posts)
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        22. Oh my god I love you!

        That has got to be one of the single funniest things I’ve read in years!

        Hairs to ya!