A Gay Man’s Message to the Trans Activists

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    • #493418
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 24,999

      I find this extremely refreshing. Even the gays have had enough of this transgender children garbage. IMO. Note there is no H.

      Image

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #493425
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,733

      The Left now is composed mostly of virtue signaling.  IMO.

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      "Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, 'How well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?'" GRRM

      A YouTube comment – we need new conspiracy theories – the old ones have all come true.

    • #493426
      Utopian Leftist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,192

      Blaming homosexuals for homophobia is homophobic no matter which way you spin it. You’re blaming the victims of this culture for their own culture and you’re dismissing my culture, based on lies and gross exageratioins! Maybe you don’t care that this hurts my feelings as a gay person. Maybe you think that’s funny. If so, you can go fuck yourself, too!

      I might think differently if drag queens, for example, were actually exposing their privates to kids at book readings, as this obnoxious trash suggests! But this person is either pretending to be gay or has swallowed a huge load of horse shit about my community. To even suggest to a gay man that he is promoting pedophilia by being himself is enough to make me leave this board forever, if I thought most of the people here were that hateful.

      Edited to say: Oh, and by the way, I’ve known I was gay since I was seven years old. If experienced Psychologists say one can experience gender dysphoria at an early age, then who am I to contradict science? Really, this is nothing but naked hatred and lies.

      “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti
      "Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voter will choose a Republican every time." ~ Harry Truman

      • #493430
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,733

        The rant does descend into a sort of inchoate anger; I wonder if the author is lashing out because of personal experience.

        As a straight person, I tend to take everything that every gay person says at face value because I do not know enough to do otherwise.

        America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

        "Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, 'How well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?'" GRRM

        A YouTube comment – we need new conspiracy theories – the old ones have all come true.

        • #493446
          Utopian Leftist
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,192

          There are constructive ways to critique any community, even a minority community. No one is or should be immune to or above constructive criticism.

          I’ve been a gay activist since the 1980’s and in my personal experience, no one has ever tried to cram trans issues down my throat, nor have I witnessed anyone attempting to convert the str8t world. Trans people just want what everyone wants: acceptance for who they are. If they can’t have that, many will settle for tolerance. This guy is neither accepting nor tolerant. Nor is he correct, in my experience. I have never called anyone a Nazi for disagreeing with me, though I did call someone a fascist once when I was doing voter outreach during the Kerry campaign, LOL. Last time I ever did that, but I digress.

          IMO this guy, and I’m not about to subject myself to reading that again in order to pick out his specific flaws, but he comes across like a rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth bigot. He makes it sound like everyone who supports trans rights is attempting to convert children. Well Mr, in the old days, we gays were commonly accused of pedophilia until it was discovered that it is a scientific fact that 90-something percent of all pedophiles ARE STRAIGHT MEN!

          This may be his true experience, which I find extremely unlikely, or he may be a gay version of the INCEL’s who think they are entitled to be regularly obeyed and fucked, or some sort of shit like that. Regardless, hate is hate.

          “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti
          "Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voter will choose a Republican every time." ~ Harry Truman

      • #493453
        Cold Mountain Trail
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 13,289

        “To even suggest to a gay man that he is promoting pedophilia (because he’s gay)”

        …is the same thing as saying a straight man is promoting pedophilia by being straight.

        Maybe the idea behind it is that men generally think of nothing but sex all day long and anyone or anything is a potential target of their uncontrollable lust.

        Always found the knee-jerk association some people make between gay and pedophile pretty odd.

    • #493427
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,786

      Imo it includes a message of “get over yourself” to those who do a lot of posturing. At the same time he was radical back when few understood the possibilities of that.

      Delany is black and gay, and his writing is unique.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_(novel)

      https://www.eileenmcginnis.com/blog/2018/10/19/turn-and-face-the-strange-samuel-delany-queering-science-fiction-queering-fatherhood

      Don't Kill the Whale
      Don't feed the trolls

      • #493431
        Utopian Leftist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,192

        His sexual orientation is not the issue here. Whether he is gay or not, what he wrote is wildly exaggerated, partially untrue, bigoted and hateful.

        “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti
        "Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voter will choose a Republican every time." ~ Harry Truman

        • #493441
          Babel 17
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 6,786

          I didn’t support the writing linked to in the OP. I offered a link to a powerful alternative voice.

          I don’t see myself as qualified to lay out what he has to say, I’m basically just noting his relevancy and suggesting that his writing is worth ones time.

          Don't Kill the Whale
          Don't feed the trolls

        • #493491
          Babel 17
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 6,786

          Lol, no, he didn’t. I say “lol” because Delany would at times include passages some describe as pornographic when describing gay sex.

          I apologize for any confusion.

          Don't Kill the Whale
          Don't feed the trolls

          • #493527
            Utopian Leftist
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,192

            Yes, I did think you meant Delaney (whom I’m not familiar with) wrote the OP.

            Normally I communicate better than that, and don’t jump to conclusions. But in the end, I don’t really think the OP’s sexual orientation makes a difference. Hate is hate. It’s ugly, inexcusable, unnecessary and counter-productive.

            “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti
            "Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voter will choose a Republican every time." ~ Harry Truman

      • #493457
        closeupready
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,718

        James Baldwin ALWAYS had interesting things to say, very, very thought-provoking insights, and powerful truths nobody else wanted to talk about or even recognize.

        The guy in the OP is just stupid and lazy, taking his talking points from who know where – 700 Club? Osteen’s crap? That guy in Arizona? Yawn. Dime a dozen.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #493476
          Gryneos
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,131

          I’m not gay, but the wording is too much like that of conservative fundamentalists. Just the spelling of “asshole” made me suspicious, but also the part about teachers and “pornographic” books. What, are they teaching the Bible? Maybe they are a Log Cabin gay.

          The people-to-cake ratio is too high.

        • #493492
          Babel 17
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 6,786

          You replied to me and not the thread in general so I’m thinking that maybe you thought otherwise.

          Don't Kill the Whale
          Don't feed the trolls

          • #493510
            closeupready
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 3,718

            I read a couple paragraphs, saw how it was going, and then was like, no, this isn’t the Emancipation Proclamation, it’s not Rumi, I don’t need to read it. I know what it says, and it reads like a stupid queen drunk-wrote it. (For the record, I don’t know who ‘Delaney’ is, so no offense to you or ‘Delaney’.)

            The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #493429
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,718

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #493432
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,107

      Too often the easily offended offer up B.S. rants just to stir things up and this is one of them.
      I am a straight up heterosexual and am offended to see that OP here. I know gay people and other than their sexual orientation, they are like heterosexual people. So really, who cares?

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If Row vs. Wade is overturned, women could lose the right to not get pregnant in 26 states.
      The Republicans are four year olds. The Democrats are six year olds. There are no grownups.
      Normalizing insanity has been the conservative's sweet spot at very least since the beginning..

    • #493434
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 9,532

      I think the one true thing he says is LGBT etc. just wanted to be treated as anyone else was and not be made a cause celebrité by armchair liberals. As for trans children, that’s a tough one. Many, many people have suffered by suppressing the need to transition. So recognizing that transitioning is a viable option, and having open discussion can only help people no matter their age. People do change their mind, however. (I personally know of two guys who have reversed their vasectomies.) That can be a real problem with children who take irreversible steps to transition. I see support, education and acceptance as the tools to deal with children. With that foundation, I think they can make an informed decision at puberty, and should be allowed to do so.

      A lot of the rest of his rant just comes off as homophobic hysteria.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #493454
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,718

      With some queens, everything is the end of the world, because getting people to believe that gives them more opportunities to get people to listen to them, to pay attention.

      I come here to talk about issues that interest me. The accounts that post messages here are all people who, likewise, just want to talk about stuff that interests them.

      But on the rant you posted here, @ohiobarbarian, I don’t understand what your takeaway or your point is.

      What purpose was served in posting that here, and is that purpose a good one?

      I know you’ve been through a lot over the last year – take a break, and work through your emotions. When you are getting overwhelmed, don’t come here and pointlessly antagonize this community of people who have made valuable contributions.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #493464
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 8,125

      I had to expand the screen to get the font size readable. I’m gonna guess this was one of those files imbedded in the screen of a tweet. I have come to hate Twitter for the mindset people have there. Is this fake? Does it matter?

      Regardless, the OP hurt a very significant person here, and I’m sad. I think wino’s comment said it best.

      Maybe this is a good moment to reflect. I don’t know a lot as a cisgender, how the hell do I know what anything else feels like? At least in this life, if you believe as I do about astrology. Words hurt and we are growing through an evolution that is painful in this life. I think I would not be cool with this philosophy, and I think we should all pause and think, just like @closeupready is doing.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #493484
      eridani
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 11,950

      When transitioning should occur is a matter of serious discussion in the trans community–many trans people think you should be a legal adult first.

      Remember that transitioning has only been possible since the 1950s.  In the 19th century you dealt with being transgender by the following method:

      Step one: Move very far away from where you grew up
      Step two: Start living as your preferred gender

      This had no consequences for society in general except for an occasional surprised undertaker. Of course back then there were no Social Security numbers, and fingerprinting was not widespread.

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

    • #493531
      QuietYooper
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 101

      It reads in tone and tenor like a Brietbart or Alex Jones commentor. Without a citation or background it’s hard to take credibly.

      I think the gay community has the same problems most other communities seem to have these days, a vacuum of leadership. Messages are driven by media and sound-bites and not by real leaders.

      It’s interesting, two of my gay friends are split over Mayor Pete. One loves him cuz he broke glass ceilings, the other hates him because he broke glass ceilings and squandered his leadership with poor messaging and responses to his paternity leave. “He’s no Harvey Milk”. Very interesting dichotomy to me.

      On the trans front, it seems the community could benefit from investments in science, but who’s gonna fund it. It’s easier to scream at each other on social media than do any hard work. What do I mean? My best friend’s daughter wanted to transition at 16yo. He and his wife supported him but would not let him start until 18yo. It was a brutal two years with hundreds of hours of therapy for the entire family. He ran away, got into drugs, OD’d multiple times, it was horrible. Once he turned 18 he did not transition. It was his decision and he did not transition until he was 22yo. Now at 26yo he got his GED and is finishing nursing school and apparently quite happy, other than living at home but that should change very soon.

      Would things have been different if they let him transition at 16yo? No clue. But there are probably tens of thousands of stories like this that are only anecdotal, and to study these stories and journeys could have huge benefits to the lives of these young adults. There may be resources in metros with large trans communities and resources to support them, but this example is from outside Macon, GA where there does not seem to be many resources.

    • #493538
      game meat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,637

      I read some of it and just skimmed the rest because it quickly deteriorates into mouth foaming hysteria. Ok, drag queen story hour is kinda goofy and eye roll inducing, and it just strikes me as something that only exists to troll social conservatives, but what is this nonsense about indecent exposure? And being so precious as to still be salty over the gay cake and pride month?

      Some of these things should allow for nuance and should be able to be discussed civilly (I mean “civilly” as something aspirational. I realize it’s impossible.). However, this is pretty much just generic right wing idpol, and it’s just as dumb as insufferable liberals who can’t discuss anything without bitching about white men, male privilege, and so on.

      I also doubt a gay guy wrote this. He breaks character almost immediately. The “I’m ___, but I still think___” is a common cover story for online rants that would otherwise be dismissed.

       

      "He busted in, blessed be thy lord
      Who believe any mess they read up on a message board
      If so, I got bridges for the low low" ~ MF DOOM

    • #493638
      Bernie Boomer
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 680

      And, just for the record – since it seems to come up way more than it should on this forum – trans kids under 18 VERY RARELY, IF EVER receive hormone treatment.

      They might receive hormone blockers, which is also given to children for other conditions and is not a permanent thing at all. Stop the blockers and the hormones kick in, as one might expect.
      But there are very few (if any) pubescent kids under 18 taking hormone therapy. It is not a medically recognized practice and hey, SURPRISE! you can’t pick up estrogen/progesterone/testosterone over-the-counter in the US (or anywhere else, as far as I know). You have to have a prescription.

      Honestly, this is so tiresome.
      If you want to validly criticize parents who are doing their best to help their young children figure out if they really are trans, learn what actually goes on instead of adopting the talking points of those who number among their kind at least one person who is openly and actively seeking to eradicate transgender humans (and yes, I have links if you need one).

      As for the rest of that thing, I’ll say this. It’s shite and I doubt it was written by a gay man. That’s not to say there aren’t gay and lesbian people who reject the “T” in LGBT (I suspect they also reject the “Q” and any other letters added).
      My trans son got verbally sideswiped by a prominent gay activist at a Pride Parade 20 years ago, for the crime of being trans. My kid was 22 – the activist was in his 50s. Not really a fair fight. And then, a few years ago, he had to put up with a lesbian terf calling him a “confused dyke” and “a pervert” while he was speaking at a a public, academic event.
      So, yeah. There are always going to be assholes – but they shouldn’t control the conversation, should they?

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