madfloridian (1938 posts)April 19, 2017 at 3:23 pm
About 8 yrs ago I wrote about a cheese sandwich….
at another site. It turned into one of the more controversial, adversarial threads I ever started. It really brought out the true colors of many. The selfish Ayn Randians and the more extreme libertarians really showed their animosity toward helping the needy and the elderly. The thread had hundreds of replies.
It really shocked me that it was so filled with vitriol
What I wrote with just a slight rewording, nothing offensive…I thought.
It’s not about a cheese sandwich at all.
Those who think it is about a cheese sandwich need to spend some time in classrooms and school lunchrooms with young kids.
It’s a punitive measure. It began that way, and it is today.
Before I retired as a teacher, I witnessed the struggle when our lunchroom at school began the “cheese sandwich” gambit. It was very obviously meant to embarrass the children whose parents were behind in their lunch payments.
It was done in a harsh way very often, with the lunchroom workers pulling the kids out of line after loudly calling out their name. They presented them their “cheese sandwich” lunch so that it could not be missed by anyone in the lunchroom. After many teachers complained they toned it down a little, but there were still loud arguments with the children who just did not understand why they were being taken out of the line to be given a cheese sandwich.
The lunches were cooked in large quantities. It saved nothing at all financially to prepare separate “cheese sandwich” lunches for the needy children.
I knew the family backgrounds of the children I taught in 2nd grade when they started that policy. I tried to explain some of the situations to the lunchroom management. They got angry with me for standing up for the children’s feelings. They reported me to the principal who told me to back off.
The same thing happened to other teachers who did not like the discrimination. It was a shocking thing to everyone when it began, but I see it has become acceptable now.
It never was and still is not about a cheese sandwich or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, or any other kind of sandwich.
It’s about embarrassing children needlessly when it would be just as economically sound to feel them a regular lunch.
I thought of it again today when I read that the schools in New Mexico would have to start putting down in writing if they “lunch-shamed” students. It’s way past time for all states to have to bear some accountability for their actions that embarrass students for something they can not help.
With policies to handle unpaid meals all over the map, the USDA, which administers the federal school meal program, will soon require that all school districts have a policy on what to do when kids can’t pay — a growing problem. By July 1, those policies must be in writing and communicated to staff, parents and the community.
“We’re saying feed these children first, and let the grownups sort out the finances,” says Jennifer Ramo, who’s with the anti-hunger group, New Mexico Appleseed. About nine years ago she says she started hearing stories about kids receiving a tray of food only to have it tossed out by a cafeteria worker when they realized students didn’t have the money to pay.
Seeing the need, Ramo worked with New Mexico state Sen. Michael Padilla to write the state law banning schools from shaming children without the ability to pay for meals.
I find myself suspicious of anyone who insists that it’s just a cheese sandwich. Our culture has become so jaded and cruel toward those who need help most often through no fault of their own.
There’s a new meanness in this country now. Too many have taken the I’ve got mine and I’m not going to worry about you and yours approach.
I still see some of the commenters in that thread posting today. So many of them sound the same as then. There’s a spiteful tone to their writing. There was then, and it’s worse now.chknltl, NJOCK, Pastiche and 83 othersBabel 17, nevereVereven, kjg, FloriTexan, vattel, tk2kewl, Zentrum, bobthedrummer, donDonE, Fasttense, catchnrelease, 3FingerBrown, truebluegreen, TwilightSporkle, Pakhet, NothingcleverjustRay, slay, ChiciB1, a2liberal, dlegendary1, BuySellTrade, 2bAnon, Jefferson23, nashvillebrook, closeupready, Xyzse, davidgmills, OCMI, Odd John, area woman, joentokyo, disillusioned73, beemerphill, , 99Forever, Enthusiast, Paper Roses, zoewashburne, Dragonfli, pacalo, Land of Enchantment, bbgrunt, Hawkowl, twenty, jeff47, HeartoftheMidwest, Doremus Jessup, Cassiopeia, beltanefauve, snot, Two way street, Ohio Barbarian, KauaiK, so far from heaven, leveymg, Peace Patriot, Abelenkpe, GloriaMundi, Paulie, historylovr, Pam, Gryneos, MissDeeds, broiles, Haikugal, mrdmk, Mom Cat, iggy, Punxsutawney, ThouArtThat, xynthee, JEB, Baba OhReally, Charles, h-32, Eggar, Marym625, OzoneTom, wilsonbooks, GoodWitch, Spanishprof27, Lucas Jackson, FanBoy like thisIf a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
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4 months ago #29
4 months ago #13
4 months ago #31
4 months ago #22
4 months ago #27
4 months ago #56
FanBoy (7985 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 3:26 pm
1. Everything that supposedly 'helps' the poor simultaneously and very purposefully
shames them. By design.
And more of that is coming.
And yeah, people in general are getting meaner. They’re being programmed to by programmed scarcity and propaganda.
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to FanBoy - post #1) April 19, 2017 at 8:10 pm
29. The extreme right prides themselves on being mean.
It’s unbelievable how heartless some are.If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
FanBoy (7985 posts) (Reply to madfloridian - post #29) April 19, 2017 at 9:05 pm
35. It's not just the extreme right. It's a more general phenomenon than
that, and it definitely includes people who consider themselves ‘liberal’.
I’ve personally experienced it, repeatedly.
They don’t even realize what they are some of them.
But some of them are well aware.
They show their teeth very openly.
Abakan (2709 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 3:39 pm
2. These people are so impotent…
They get their jollies embarrassing children. They can’t get away
with their bulling with adults. Feed the children first.
I am glad my state is doing this, maybe our children can grow up
with healthier self images.
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to Abakan - post #2) April 19, 2017 at 3:44 pm
5. I have always heard bullies are insecure.
That’s likely true, but I think the best word to describe them is mean.
so far from heaven (10725 posts) (Reply to madfloridian - post #5) April 19, 2017 at 6:23 pm
18. Another word comes to mind as well.
small"When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to so far from heaven - post #18) April 19, 2017 at 8:11 pm
30. And petty.
wilsonbooks (117 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 3:41 pm
3. Hopefully not here. It makes me sick that anyone would deny children a meal or
shame them for needing help.I asked Tom if countries always apologized when they had done wrong, & he says, "Yes; the little ones does." (*Tom Sawyer Abroad*, Mark Twain)
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to wilsonbooks - post #3) April 19, 2017 at 3:43 pm
4. I don't think there is much of that here.
I think there were over 300 replies at the other site, some good, some just vicious. I think most JPR folks are kind.
Mom Cat (9778 posts) (Reply to madfloridian - post #4) April 19, 2017 at 4:48 pm
13. I think so too! Thanks for sharing this and for your compassionate work as a
teacher. Bet your love touched a lot of lives.NEVER FORGET BERNIE WON!
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to Mom Cat - post #13) April 19, 2017 at 8:12 pm
31. Thanks Mom Cat. I think this is overall a kind site..
with mostly people who do care for others.
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 3:48 pm
6. I remember that!
I still lurked at that time but I remember that.
On The Daily Radical!
I can’t believe this is still happening. I’m as shocked as when I learned it happened at all. From you.
I remember a couple years ago in Virginia, I think, when some asswipe state senator wanted kids who received free lunches to sweep up the schools.
It’s disgusting"Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
Two way street (2169 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #6) April 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm
22. Republican Newt Gingrich wants to put children to work.
Cleaning cafeteria table or sweeping up was a first job for many youngsters for decades.Draft Bernie for a people's party
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to Two way street - post #22) April 19, 2017 at 7:09 pm
23. Oh man, time is flying by
That was more than a couple years ago
Sick fuck"Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
Two way street (2169 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #23) April 19, 2017 at 7:41 pm
27. Republicans are in complete control of the government again to abuse children
for labor and make them responsible for paying their own way when their parents are poor.
O’l Newt is still around.
snip>< Or there’s a more intriguing possibility: Gingrich is running for shadow president. more at site linkDraft Bernie for a people's party
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to Two way street - post #27) April 19, 2017 at 8:05 pm
28. Nothing would surprise me"Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to Two way street - post #27) April 19, 2017 at 8:15 pm
32. Remember when Newt and Bill Clinton met secretly to cut Soc. Security?
It was about the time of the Monica scandal. Luckily for us, Old Bill got sidetracked. But the corporate Dems are still trying to cut it.
Green Dog Dem (3276 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 3:48 pm
Spanishprof27 (237 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 3:53 pm
8. This is awful.
All children should be provided with lunch, free of charge, at school, like they do in Finland. It’s no one’s business who could afford it and who couldn’t. I get so angry at a country that can afford to send a huge bombs and wars, but will immediately say that we can’t afford to provide school lunch. And you are so right that it really has absolutely nothing to do with the cheese sandwich. If it did, they’d just add the price to the school taxes we pay for everything else, like the new gym and three new 3-D printers at our school.
Children should be empowered, not shamed in school. At my daughter’s high school, they shame them about grades, too. It caused her such severe anxiety that she is now enrolled in cyber school, and I’m working on trying to get her into a neighboring district for next year. The one thing we know for sure is that she will never go back to the school in whose district we live. I will not let my daughter be shamed.
I’ve always loved your posts about school issues, madfloridian. (I lurked at the other place for years, never felt comfortable enough to post.) Thank you for continuing with them.
FanBoy (7985 posts) (Reply to Spanishprof27 - post #8) April 19, 2017 at 4:07 pm
10. "she is now enrolled in cyber school"
that’s the reason they’re being shamed – so parents will get so fed up they’ll look for alternatives
alternatives that will eventually be used for private profit, if they’re not already being (which a lot of them are)
but the shaming will continue, just by different means
Silver Witch (4856 posts) (Reply to Spanishprof27 - post #8) April 19, 2017 at 6:17 pm
HIP56948 (2455 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 4:01 pm
9. To this poster it's embarrassingly sad that you have to say
“It’s not about a cheese sandwich”
On Edit: I mean, in the past.
ThouArtThat (4352 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 4:26 pm
11. Thank You For Sharing – I Had No Idea About This Shameful Practice
eom"In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous
JEB (547 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 4:33 pm
Gryneos (1522 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 5:53 pm
14. Conditional Compassion
At least, that’s how I see the ones doing this kind of thing.
“I’ll give you some of my hard-earned money if you work for it.”
“I’ll give you some of my tax-dollars if you promise not to buy things I don’t think you should buy.”
There’s always a string attached, because it’s impossible for many to simply give without expecting something in return. If you can’t sufficiently compensate them for their outlay (or “obey” them), then you don’t deserve their “compassion.”
One thing your topic has brought back to mind is the state of school lunches in this country to begin with. If you haven’t seen the Jamie Oliver series he did for the US, then seek it out; it’s worth watching (Jamie Oliver’s Food Revolution.) You probably already know how bad the bureaucracy is with regard to the schools, but it’s even worse with the kitchens, as all of their meal-planning is governed by the USDA. Maybe if we got them out of it, we wouldn’t have to charge anything for school lunches.
This is a good video comparing school lunches from around the world:"You! Cake or death?" "Uh, cake for me, too, please." "Very well! Give him cake, too! We're gonna run out of cake at this rate. You! Cake or death?" "Uh, death, please. No, cake! Cake! Cake, sorry. Sorry..." "You said death first, uh-uh, death first!" "Well, I meant cake!" "Oh, all right. You're lucky I'm Church of England!" Eddie Izzard, Dress To Kill
John Q Citizen (12 posts) (Reply to Gryneos - post #14) April 19, 2017 at 7:14 pm
Silver Witch (4856 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 6:06 pm
15. It is and never was just a cheese sandwich.
It is about teaching children at a very early age that being poor is bad and somehow their fault from the day they are born. Some lunch workers have eve been fired or disciplined for paying for poor students lunches.
The ONLY people who should be ashamed are the school administrators who put in place such plans. Shame on them.#Let'sTalkRevolution
leveymg (2897 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 6:18 pm
17. I remember that post "over there", and it reminded me of the Food Stamp vouchers
Or was it welfare or WIC checks that always seemed to require a manager and a long delay in the supermarket line. I remember remarking to my spouse how much simpler it would be to just give the program recipient a pre-paid debit card. It was obvious shaming and an attempt to get the rest of us in line to resent welfare recipients. Instead, it just helped clarify my thinking about how cruel and unusual American style capitalism is and how this is an exceptionally backward country.
so far from heaven (10725 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 6:37 pm
you have made me think again. Painful as that effort can be, I have come to the conclusion I need to paraphrase JFK.
I dream of how things could be, and ask ‘Why not?’
Dwelling in the past keeps us rooted to the past. I say to hell with what has come before, let’s shape that which will be.
Ohio Barbarian (3781 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 6:44 pm
20. I don't remember whether I read that one or not, MadFlo, but I do remember
reading similar things by you, and often seeing the same kind of really morally reprehensible responses. There’s no honor in shaming children because their parents are poor, none at all. Thor would not approve.
This is the classic Madfloridian-type post I remember. Thanks for reposting it here."Identity politics is the last refuge of the politically incompetent." --Me, with a hat tip to Isaac Asimov
Hydra (375 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 6:52 pm
21. The really sick thing is, there's more than enough food for everyone
But our capitalist society twists itself into pretzels in order to make sure everyone pays(in blood) for everything.
I’m not sure how it makes sense to people, other than the expression that I think best describes people hurting other people: “Sharing their pain(and fears) with others.”
Cassiopeia (2098 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 7:09 pm
24. Wow, that was a hell of a thread.
I vaguely remember it originally.
Many of the worst offenders are still outspoken posters there today (or they were last year at this time, I haven’t been back since May)
You’re right too, they’ve gotten much worse. If that is what the Dem party stands for I’m proud to be ostracized by them.The only minority we should actually fear is the wealthiest 1%
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to Cassiopeia - post #24) April 19, 2017 at 10:02 pm
37. I just saw one of those today…
posting in a thread begging people to stop attacking Bernie as it was counterproductive. I remember she was absolutely merciless back then on that thread. To be clear, she was criticizing the one who was saying to stop the bashing.
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 7:12 pm
25. By the way
That post is why I say, “Jesus Christ on a cheese sandwich”
so far from heaven (10725 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #25) April 19, 2017 at 8:55 pm
34. Only if it's toasted.
Seriously, someone claimed they saw Jesus on their toast.
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to so far from heaven - post #34) April 20, 2017 at 10:20 am
48. See my picture below
It’s grilled cheese I believe. And god, the son of a bitch, appeared while grilling, don’cha know?!
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to so far from heaven - post #34) April 20, 2017 at 10:33 am
50. Here's a famous one
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #25) April 19, 2017 at 10:03 pm
Marym625 (23443 posts) (Reply to madfloridian - post #38) April 20, 2017 at 8:00 am
mick063 (2284 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 8:42 pm
33. Make no mistake.
There is Republican style class warfare taking place within the Democratic Party. Those folks from Arkansas had a lot to do with luring Republicans into the big tent while pushing working class advocates out the back.
The lack of empathy is startling relative to the Robert Kennedy era I remember."I welcome their hatred" Franklin D. Roosevelt
zeemike (1159 posts) (Reply to original post) April 19, 2017 at 9:24 pm
36. I remember that post
And if I remember right it was triggered by a story about school lunch in New Mexico.
To me it makes no sense to charge for lunch at all…just make it a part of school expenses and be done with it. But no one but me would think that is a good idea.You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to zeemike - post #36) April 19, 2017 at 11:48 pm
39. It really got negative quickly.
Surprised me a lot. I just naively assumed that others could see it was bad to embarrass children.
Enthusiast (8865 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 3:07 am
40. Thank you for revisiting this issue.
I have observed several instances of this new meanness you speak of."The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide." Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
grouchomarxist (212 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 3:18 am
41. it takes a special person to be a good teacher
I had the sensitivity but not the stamina. I’ve noticed that people like you tend to drop out, leaving only the bad apples, ie those that enjoy the power.
99Forever (2842 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 4:48 am
42. Thank you, Maddy.
It’s not about cheese sandwiches, indeed. The evil meanness that has infested our culture scares me more than anything else. It’s taken root in all of our policies and hastens the decline of this once great nation.
Hobbit709 (2425 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 5:16 am
43. The worst part of this is the fact these lunchrooms have food left over
at the end of the day and they just throw it out. What they throw out is totally wasted and they threw away that money, yet they complain they can’t afford to feed those hungry kids for free.I won't shut up and I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing
OCMI (1393 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 8:26 am
45. When my son was a 2nd grade student, 15 years ago
The schools had a free/reduced lunch program for students whose family income was below Federal guidelines. I’d known peripherally about it, but as we did not need assistance, was not familiar with school policy.
Mid-year, my son came home with paperwork for the school lunch program. I thought it was odd, as program enrollment was done at the beginning of the school year, but just ignored it. Then about a week later, the school phoned to encourage me to enroll my son in the program. Turned out that he hadn’t been buying lunches for two weeks. I then found out that school policy was to give children who didn’t have a lunch or the means to purchase one a peanut butter sandwich and a 1/2 pint of milk. This floored me for 3 reasons: my son went to school every day with the money to purchase lunch, my son hated peanut butter, and the school no longer just gave the children a good lunch and then contacted the parents RE payment arrangements.
It turned out that my son had a friend who was outgrowing a very battered pair of shoes, and the other boy was saving to buy new ones. So my son would give the boy his lunch money every day, then get the sandwich and milk instead. The other boy was enrolled in the lunch program, so he would also share his lunch with my son. The school “suggested” that I pre-fund a lunch account for my son instead of sending cash. Upon discovering this, the school threatened to cut the other boy and his siblings off of the school lunch program for fraud!! The other boy’s mother phoned me in a panic, and between the two of us we managed to convince the school to let the boy and his siblings continue to participate in the program. It was appalling to me that they could view this as anything more than two boys coming up with a way to have shoes and eat lunch too.
The school made it sound as if there was an epidemic of children without money or lunches going on which forced them to provide an alternate and sub-standard meal to those children. I funded my son’s school lunch account so that he would have the means to purchase meals for children who would otherwise be eating PBJs on days when they didn’t have money or a bag lunch. The extra lunch money was rarely needed, which to me highlighted the intent of the alternate meal strategy. They were shaming those children who, for whatever reason, were stuck without a lunch.
An ending note – the boy was able to purchase his new shoes.If you dislike Trump, you should vote for him so we can change his party from within. Yes, Hillary supporters, this is how ridiculous you sound.
nashvillebrook (515 posts) (Reply to OCMI - post #45) April 20, 2017 at 9:33 am
47. that's a wonderful story.
you’ve got a great boy
i believe the school officials sound as if their intent is to shame poor children…b/c it’s their intent to shame poor children. all the better if they can criminalize being poor by grossly misrepresenting well adjusted behavior (helping another child) as fraud.
knowing how the conservative xtian coalition has infiltrated school boards, i can’t help but think these types would jail Jesus for feeding the poor, and cite so-called “Christian values” in doing so. it’s all about creating the starkest possible distinction between the entitled status of the well off, with the downtrodden status of low-income folks (blessed and cursed).
OCMI (1393 posts) (Reply to nashvillebrook - post #47) April 20, 2017 at 10:23 am
49. Through the years I've seen several ways in which children on the lunch program
are identified as such to their classmates. Handing in a lunch voucher, giving their name to be checked off on a list, etc. This leads to feelings of shame, lower self-worth, and resentment in the child IMO.
My granddaughter lives in a rural school district where over 40% of students qualify for free or reduced lunch. Her schools have chosen to provide breakfast and lunch to all children using Federal and State lunch program funds and additional grants. The parents in that district can then fund extra-curricular activities, such as an award-winning school band program, participation in science competitions, etc. And they do! The vast majority of parents (in fact I’ve never found one that doesn’t, but the possibility is there that they exist) want their children to be well fed and educated.
My father extolled the benefits of public education not just for the children, but also for the country. A healthy, educated workforce should be something the “job creators” favor, but that seems to be too “socialist” an idea now.If you dislike Trump, you should vote for him so we can change his party from within. Yes, Hillary supporters, this is how ridiculous you sound.
Jefferson23 (5359 posts) (Reply to OCMI - post #45) April 20, 2017 at 10:46 am
51. YOU are a wonderful Mom. Your kid is awesome too!
The means the school was ready to use against the children was insane..fraud?
OCMI (1393 posts) (Reply to Jefferson23 - post #51) April 20, 2017 at 11:09 am
53. LOL, thank you
We both have our good and bad traits. My son continued to help other children out with footwear on occasion over the years by trading his new shoes for their worn out ones. This was not always welcome news when he showed up at home barefoot and carrying torn sneakers, and didn’t have any others to wear!
The school was very serious about the supposed “fraud”. Still baffles and angers me to this day.
Jefferson23 (5359 posts) (Reply to OCMI - post #53) April 20, 2017 at 11:29 am
54. lol That is fantastic..what a great kid!
The level of heartlessness by the school is disturbing..they should be role models..among other things.
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to OCMI - post #45) April 20, 2017 at 11:35 am
55. What a great story.
It must have been frustrating trying to get your story across to the school. What made me feel so bad is that I learned that the ladies in the lunchroom had terrible attitudes toward the kids. It might have just been that school I was in then, because the others where I had taught had not been so bad.
Your son sounds very kind.
OCMI (1393 posts) (Reply to madfloridian - post #55) April 20, 2017 at 11:47 am
57. Yes, very frustrating
The school staff acted like the boys had committed some horrible crime. It wasn’t one friend helping another, and working together to also make sure they had something to eat, it was defrauding the state?!??
Lunch ladies during my school years were either nice, or not nice – no in-between. Some would make sure everyone around knew when a child was on the lunch program, or exhibit glee when they could take a lunch away from a child who found they didn’t have enough money to pay when they got to the register. It’s a meanness of spirit I’ve never been able to understand.
closeupready (1353 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 8:37 am
46. I think I remember that thread. If anything, the responses today
would be even worse.The opinions and views expressed herein are solely those of the author.
Jefferson23 (5359 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 10:51 am
52. I had to go look up that thread. I haven't been over there and I almost
wish I kept to that..but omg. Their indifference to humanity is astounding. There is one of them still over there, she should be shunned for her positions…they’re not liberal, progressive, nor conservative. They are indecent positions…disgusting.
Great OP as usual, thank you.
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to Jefferson23 - post #52) April 20, 2017 at 11:38 am
56. One of them just yesterday was being just as ugly…
in some post about Bernie and how bad they all think he is. Someone had tried to request that they should not attack him so much, and she doubled down.
Jefferson23 (5359 posts) (Reply to madfloridian - post #56) April 20, 2017 at 11:50 am
slay (421 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 12:03 pm
59. I remember that
because it is the day I decided I could never support Libertarians or their philosophy – heartless bastards. It was a great post then, and is a great post today. People > Money – always.
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to slay - post #59) April 20, 2017 at 1:24 pm
62. Awesome graphic.
Speaks so much about their aversion to helping others.
dlegendary1 (948 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 12:20 pm
60. I went and tracked down that post
Good god! Most of those people that posted there were truly heartless! Kids pocketing the money, parents forgetting to feed their kids, parents to fill out the form because (insert inane excuse here)…WTF doesn’t do those responses justice.
According to Florida State Representative Al Lawson 27 out of 28 schools in Leon County’s schools have a poverty population of over 60%! This is a much bigger issue now that outsourcing has destroyed the middle class. And I don’t even know why kids should be paying for school meals since the government reimburses the school for all those meals that the children consume through C.E.P. School lunch should be a right for all students period! I know there are several other factors as to why children aren’t performing well in schools but I believe nutrition is major contributing factor.
TwilightSporkle (1796 posts) (Reply to original post) April 20, 2017 at 1:19 pm
61. I remember that thread
Or another VERY like it. Has it been so long? I was in slack-jawed shock over the people who just refused to get it.
What if I want to tell you to leave me and my beloved ones in peace
But you only understand the language of the sword
I let the blade do the talking
So my tongue shall become iron
And my words the mighty roar of war
mntleo2 (110 posts) (Reply to original post) April 21, 2017 at 5:53 am
63. Hatred of the poor has always been with us
It is not new that nowadays the poor are blamed and despised for being poor. The attitude that the poor “choose” to be poor is perhaps the most prevalent now, what with the “American dream” and all. They refuse to believe that they depend upon the poor to maintain their own class and they refuse to acknowledge they even profit off the poor in many ways, including low wage laborers, their own well-paid employment and about contributions they make to mega-nonprofits whose own existence is purely based on the upper class’s own benefit and for nons who do little for their mission.
One time I did a research on how much money actually went to services using sites like Goldstar, which publicizes how much non-profits get in grant money. You have to laugh at the ridiculousness of it as these nons do not have to declare how much more they also receive in donations, they only talk about government money, donations are “secret.” What they reported is how much money was granted and how many clients they actually served. Since that website reported government involvement with these mega-nons, that site was free at one time, now you have to pay them a fee in order to get the information ~ clearly a way to block people like me who might do the math.
At any rate if you get this information about government involvement in mega-nons and do the math by dividing what they get with the amount of people they served on the ground, it was mind shattering. Many of these mega-nons get between $52,000-$64,000 per client per year. But the actual services they provide is less than $2000 worth of service. And remember this calculation is based solely on the amount they receive from government grants, it does not include the $millions they get in donations. Nobody wants to ask where goes that other $50,000-$62,000 government grants per client. I can tell you but it is wonky, suffice it to say it goes into upper class donors and rich people’s pockets. You see, those upper classes work hard while the clients they serve are lazy SOBs, and those who need services are just lucky these nons are around.
A funny/sad story I can tell about one of these mega-nons came from Wisconsin and a bunch of plucky ladies in poverty. The Goodwill was granted over $350,000,000 providing childcare help to low wage working parents. They used very punitive services and gave little if they could help it. Well they decided to hold a $50,000 “thank-you” party for themselves to pat their own backs about how wonderful they were. So these plucky women went under cover and volunteered to help with this party. The ED and the muckity- mucks drunkenly posed for these women who took pictures of this, while these volunteers kept clicking and keeping notes about things like who attended and the other extravagances this group of clueless idiots were indulging themselves. Then they took those pictures and info to the press and legislators, embarrassing the whole lot. Suffice it to say Goodwill gave back their grant because they were outed.
Just saying here if more of us in the know got creative and did things like that, we could expose this hatred in the act. Plus it could force these mega-nons to provide more help to the poor and for the government to keep a closer look as to who and what they decide We The People should provide they take from the revenue we pay.
Hope this helps, Cat in SeattleCat in Seattle >^..^< "I like democracy *not* xenocracy..." ~ Frank Zappa
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to mntleo2 - post #63) April 21, 2017 at 9:11 am
64. Your 3rd paragraph gives shocking numbers.
I had no idea. Thanks for sharing….very revealing post.
mntleo2 (110 posts) (Reply to mntleo2 - post #63) April 21, 2017 at 11:29 am
65. Oh yes and the rich benefit even more ways
Most mega-nons are run and funded by the rich. Meaning that they are the ones who chair the mega-non on their boards (often paid positions as well), and the executive positions often employ their spouses, kids and/or relatives in 6 figure positions such as Executive director, vice president, etc.
One way you can check this hierarchy is going to the head offices of the entity. As you ascend the floors you will literally see what I mean. They also use slave labor for doing the dirtiest and hardest work, unpaid people working off welfare grants at 50 cents an hour ~ not paid by the non but paid by TANF ~ or people doing mandated “community services” etc., and they do not have to observe labor laws so they make sure they get their money’s worth that they did not pay.
The bottom floor is where the “volunteers,” low paid workers, and clients go. It is littered with broken furniture, broken equipment, and old phones. The next floor gets better where the case managers reside, and the floors beyond get more and more opulent as you go up. The top floor, the ED’s and executive position offices are decorated with expensive furniture, original art and the state of the art equipment.
One time a friend who was the son of someone working in one of these executive positions in a Christian organization (World Concern) told me he asked his mother (an heiress to the Standard Oil corporation and supposed devout Christian) why her office was done with such plush and decadent surroundings? She answered him, “Silly how can we get rich people to donate if they are not comfortable in their familiar environment in order to give?” So he asked, wouldn’t they understand you need to use money like that to go to the people they served? She angrily called him “the devil” and ordered him to leave immediately!
These people are evil and the worst kind since they do not know it or want to see it. They like to pat themselves on the back and feel so …generous when in fact they get those $millions in donations back in the form of tax breaks ~ and often the Executive is given a pass for taxes in their wages since they are “being so nice.” Not so much for their paid workers such as case managers, accountants, janitors and the like who DO pay those taxes ….
As you can tell while I understand these mega-nons are sometimes the best places to go to get help, but I have little respect for them. The small nons are the ones doing the real work on the ground ~ but of course the government does not even consider giving them grants, plus those small nons do not have grant writers, occasions to schmooze with the rich and legislator grant people at fundraising events in order to get attention, or any opportunities like that.
Just my opinion from what I have witnessed …
Love, Cat in SeattleCat in Seattle >^..^< "I like democracy *not* xenocracy..." ~ Frank Zappa
Tierra y Libertad (1591 posts) (Reply to original post) April 21, 2017 at 11:43 am
66. There is nothing romantic, uplifting, or shemeful about being hungry.
Been there, done that, as a kid. I would have loved a cheese sandwich some days.
When there is hunger, real hunger, your world shrinks to only hunger. There isn’t much room for learning.
The only thing I ever learned from pain/hunger/poverty is I don’t like it.
But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing. Thomas Paine
FloriTexan (12 posts) (Reply to original post) April 21, 2017 at 7:27 pm
madfloridian (1938 posts) (Reply to FloriTexan - post #67) April 21, 2017 at 7:47 pm
68. Surprised you remembered it.
I guess you lurked there a long time. Didn’t go over well back then.