Adam Schiff is absolutely disgusting.

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    • #45810
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,270

      It is rare that I find myself in agreement with people on Fox news – but this is one of those times.  He is the modern day Joseph McCarthy – and I’m not the only one saying it.  He is so eager to bring down Russia, Putin – and anything/everything associated that he has lost the damn plot, if he ever had it to begin with.  Everyone who doesn’t believe whole-heartedly in the bull shit is a traitor, in his eyes.  A Putin puppet – a useful tool.  What really, truly disgusts me though…

      Is to see otherwise intelligent, decent people praising him.  He has surrendered, long since, any right to be considered reliable, even credible.  Man, what the hell is wrong with people?  Are they so obsessed with bringing down Trump that they forget every history lesson they ever learned?  THIS is what is pushing the new cold war – and Trump is eager to help.  Well done, democrats.  Well done indeed.  You’ve brought the world several steps closer to disaster.  Several very large ones.  Hell, with Adam Schiff and Rachael Maddow to lead the way, who needs Trump?  They can do half this shit for him – and some times, I wonder if that is precisely what is happening.

    • #45814
      ArtfromArk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,619

      Here’s my take on things: The powers that be find influential commentators to represent the “left” in the media. Originally, those people tell things like the way they really are, and gain a following among left-thinking people. Then they become talking heads and gradually start to push the agenda of their masters for a big payout. The ones that don’t sell out their principles, like Phil Donahue, Lee Camp, and the late Ed Schulz, get relegated to alternate media.

      “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #45815
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,869

      Anyone who uses pictures like the following for a propaganda meme is an idiot by definition:

      Note the hammer-and-sickle, the symbol of the Communist Soviet Union, which hasn’t existed since 1991. Russia has not been Communist since then, at the very latest. That was 28 years ago!

      And these are the Very Intelligent People all good Democrats and progressives should listen to? No, they’re not. They’re stupid and greedy people who only care about holding on to the money and power they already have.

      That’s part of my take on it, anyway. You’re right, though; Adam Schitthead is right up there at the top of the Vichy Democratic pyramid of self-serving and donor-groveling bullshit.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #45818
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,270

      Man, I really need to get rid of facebook – or at least stop reading it.  Most of my relatives are… well, they’re fanatic democrats, so fanatic that they’re blind when it comes to stuff like this.  I could point it out, I could write it in huge letters – in crayon – and I’ve all but done that, but their response is the equivalent of “You’re just spouting RW talking points”, or, “You’re wrong, because (insert politician or Maddow) says so!”

      The manufacturing of consent, the brainwashing of the populace… man, it worked pretty well.  Hell, I’m sure it pisses them off any time I say what I think.  It’s strange.  Not so long ago we were all mostly in agreement, at least in our opposition to the Bush regime.  Now though… do I see things that I didn’t see before… that were there all along?  Or has something changed dramatically?  Have so many people with better educations, bigger brains, higher IQs – greater logic and reason than I – have they all been fooled?  They aren’t stupid… hell, some of them have PHDs.  Hard to argue with people who outclass you that much.

      I just don’t get it.  Hard as I try, I will never really understand politics – and I will never really understand how people can so passionately, angrily, self-righteously deny what they ought to know perfectly well to be true.  Maybe they just don’t read?

      The darker suspicion is that… maybe they have long since discovered the same things I have.  Maybe they prefer things the way they are – maybe it’s deliberate.  They’re not so low on the social ladder as I am…. but shit, I’ve always believed them to be good people.  I was a “fanatic democrat” not that long ago myself.  Maybe I just need to chill, remember that people are ignorant, remember that I, too, am ignorant.

      Shit.

      • #45861
        Haikugal
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 2,328

        The darker suspicion is that… maybe they have long since discovered the same things I have.  Maybe they prefer things the way they are – maybe it’s deliberate.

        Yeah, that’s what I think…it’s deliberate.

        • #45872
          David the Gnome
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 3,270

          @haikugal

          Frightening thought.  I try to see the goodness in people – to the extent that I can without being, or at least not deliberately being, in denial.  Yet, if such people are… well, quite deliberate, in what is done, in how things are…. shit, that would make them crazier than I am.


          @ohiobarbarian

          Good point – well taken.  A PHD doesn’t make you a decent person, doesn’t mean you are right – and really, doesn’t even necessarily make you all that intelligent.


          @peacecorps

          We’ve had this debate a few times – but I don’t mind discussing it again, because I think I get where you are coming from.  The thing is… sufficient evidence should have been gathered before any kind of accusation was made, to begin with.  When allegations are claimed as facts long before there has been time to properly investigate them… then it’s not just fishy, it’s not just suspicious – someone is up to something very, very nasty.  In America, in our court system… at least in theory – we are presumed innocent until proven guilty.  Now I don’t know if that applies on an international scale – but it should.  If we were going to accuse Russia – then it should have been done formally, presented to an international council, even the UN.  I suppose it’s hard to do that when the administration in power is the one accused – but it could be done.

          When Bin Laden was accused of being responsible for the 9/11 terror attacks, the Taliban themselves offered him and his lieutenants up for an international court.  That was not appealing to the US government… perhaps because there was always more to the story than most of us realized at the time.

          If, say, one Country accuses another… and does not require the burden of overwhelming evidence – proof… then what’s to stop anyone from accusing anyone and doing as they please about it?  Nothing.  Our last century of American history has so many examples of this.  It may be that nothing so dramatic as war will happen with Russia – I certainly hope it doesn’t come to that.  However, it had ought to be illegal for government official representatives and/or journalists to report these things as fact – when, frankly, they are not.  Have – and speak of whatever opinion you will, but a majority of the media and democratic party hasn’t just accused Russia.  In their minds, Russia and Putin are already convicted.

          The investigation is complete.  No indictments were recommended.  No sufficient evidence of collusion.  Yes, perhaps some Russians, perhaps even the Russian state, had an interest in our election – and attempted to sway the outcome.  No evidence though, suggests that they were even remotely successful in doing so.

          I despise Trump.  I would like to see him and his whole administration removed in shame and disgrace – sent to prison for a long damn time.  Come to think of it, that’s what I’d like to see happen for most politicians.  However… the accusations, the allegations claimed as fact… that is immoral, it is unethical – and depending on the circumstances, it can cost lives, it can result in sanctions, in war, in the devastation of thousands, even millions.

          Great care ought to be taken when acting on the international stage.  It was not.  Schiff and Maddow are the worst examples of this, I think – but there are others.

          Done is done, my friend.  We will beat Trump through policy – we will kick his ass on the issues, if that is where we put our focus and our intensity.  The harder the democrats cling to RussiaGate, the tighter Trump’s grip on his base will grow.  Let’s just point out the very real, well documented shit he is doing as President.  If that’s not enough to discredit him, then we are already a failed experiment – nothing at all to do with Russia, but with how little we care about our own.

          I don’t have much hope that that will happen… but I hope you see my point.

      • #45863
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,869

        Ph.D. Piled Higher and Deeper. Milton Friedman had a Ph.D. Some of the biggest intellectual losers in history have had PH.Ds. Some of the brightest people I have known have had no college degrees but were self-taught by their own relentless drive for knowledge.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #45968
        MistaP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,075

        if they’re PhDs, ask them to consider their class position–toss a little Gramsci in the mix

    • #45828
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,225

      The US accusing Russia of interfering in the 2016 presidential election (confirmed by Mueller) and investigating it, is not promoting a Cold War 2.0. Russia accusing the US of interfering in the 2012 Russian presidential election and investigating it, was not promoting a Cold War 2.0.

      Until an international agreement directs that national governments cannot legislate against the involvement of other countries in their elections, we are doomed to suffer through allegations of and investigations into one country interfering into another’s election.

      Many conservatives would agree with the concept that nuclear-armed countries (the US!) should not be accused of or investigated for interfering in the elections of other countries (to avoid a Cold War 2.0 between nuclear powers) and that politicians in those other countries should not criticize said nuclear-armed country.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

      • #45848
        Earthartist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,546

        You need to just stop your nonsense take it somewhere else.  If you are so concerned about Russian influence why dont you spend some time talking about how we influenced the election of Yeltsen and distroyed the country.  I am sick and tired of the Russia BS and frankly the more you spout it the less interested I get in Bernie.  This country has openly messed with other countries elections, they have openly started coups, they have bombed the brown countries around the world, they have starved people with sanctions, they have tortured, assassinated,rendered, droned. We have over 900 bases around the world. You spend your time belly aching about a few face book adds that you have 0 proof were Russia or interference . Stop

        Earthartist

        • #45868
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 21,869

          You’re less interested in Bernie because one poster on a political web forum says stuff about Russian, and in this case also American, interference in other countries’ elections you don’t like? Really?

          Sometimes I know I have to take a step back. That’s all, and I’m just as disgusted by the “Russia attacked us” meme as anyone here.

           

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

        • #46224
          PolecatHollerer
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,364

          +100!

          If you give a man enough rope, it will be six inches too short. This is not the nature of rope- it is the nature of man.

      • #45870
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,869

        Investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election is one thing, and it’s done. There was a private Russian troll form that posted a lot of memes. Insignificant. According to Mueller, they stole the DNC emails that would never have been written in the first place if the DNC wasn’t a corrupt organization, and We The People should have known about them anyway. Hillary never deserved to win.

        The thing is, some Democrats and talking heads, especially Rachel Maddow, have been calling what the Russians did an attack on us, and spewing propaganda about Trump being a Russian agent. That’s McCarthyism 2.0. That’s most certainly Cold War rhetoric.

        It is also most certainly totally unmitigated bullshit.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

        • #45934
          virtualobserver
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 163

          I do believe that Russians tried to influence our elections, just as we try to influence theirs and other countries.  I do believe that Trump and some around him were happy to receive help from anyone…the Saudis, the Israelis, and the Russians….they would have welcomed help from extraterrestrials.

          He and his family are bumbling fools. They are just trying to shovel money at themselves.

          The problem is that Hillary and the DNC tried to influence our elections….they and their friends in the media tried to help Trump during the primaries and suppress Bernie. They were exposed and that influenced people to avoid voting for Hillary.  Hillary did surprisingly well considering this and her total lack of Charisma.

          Personally though, I don’t disagree with any of Adam Schiff’s criticisms of Trump.

           

           

        • #46226
          PolecatHollerer
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,364

          +100

          If you give a man enough rope, it will be six inches too short. This is not the nature of rope- it is the nature of man.

    • #45889
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,991

      He is so annoying that I can barely watch him.   They have an appreciation thread going in SV.

    • #45900
      whispers
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 487

      Yes, Adam Schiff is absolutely disgusting, as are all those who continue with the anti-Russia nonsense, on this board as well.  I don’t want to consider other countries as “enemies”, I don’t want to see more war and destruction of other countries for the purpose of grabbing their resources for our international corporations.  As for globalism, it has not truly been for the people.  It has been for the corporations, banks, and associated profit seekers.

      Manufactured Consent.

    • #45961
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,359

      Schiff is using his 15 minute fame for all it is worth. However the anti-Russian

      propaganda started right after Putin tried to stop the western robbery

      and pillaging of Russian resources. It went to higher gear after our

      regime change in the Ukraine did not work out just as planned. For

      those of us, who read up on modern history from nonconformist

      sources, it is clear that neither the Soviet Union nor the RF has broken

      agreements to such an extent as the US (NATO extension and

      ABM treaty come to mind). I doubt that the Kremlin spent as much

      on “interference” in our elections as Israel, KSA and the UK did, yet

      we don’t call them hostile for their attempts. As I stated before:

      Show the evidence openly,; don’t hide it under “national Security!

      And after watching the following agencies for over 50 years,

      I cannot believe a word they say: FBI, CIA, NSA, and, yes, the DoJ.

      So, Schiff is just a tool of the establishment, who tries to keep

      its story relevant. What should frighten us mostly is the terrible

      influence propaganda has over the population.

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

    • #45984
      MistaP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,075

      for the record, here’s the only things Russia’s been accused of:

      1. hacking and releasing the DNCleaks and the Podesta spearphishing via WikiLeaks (the most important, most disprovable, least investigated element of all this)
      2. the IRA’s ad-overselling campaign, much of which was political and a significant part of that anti-Clinton, but puppies (lots of ugly neo-Bircherism against social-media/comments-section dissidents over this)
      3. hacking the elections of France, Brexit, Netherlands, Germany (stories all retracted)
      4. Macedonians targeting Sanders backers with fake stories like Clinton’s investigators dying in house fires or whatever (the “Denver Guardian,” not Russian)
      5. Fozzie Bear intruding in voter-registration systems (and not changing anything; or accused of helping Clinton in AZ and CA)
      6. RT America’s reporting that people don’t feel represented by the political system, covering third parties and people who’d been fired for refusing the orders to not give Sanders any coverage (also Stein and Flynn at a disarmament dinner and nobody said anything in English)
      7. Trump, Jr., babyishly wandering into Fusion GPS’s trap (not on the DNC emails, and that goes right back to Strzok)

      these all sounded damning when they were being leaked early 2017, with certain details excluded (mostly that the Kremlin had nothing to do with any of these, or confounding Chappaqua with the DNCleaks; we were encouraged to connect dots and anticipate a steady stream of explosive revelations: instead it’s these stories, increasingly separated, banging around like tennis balls in a dryer

    • #46114
      not4sale
      Blocked
      • Total Posts: 254

      Agreed, he disgusts me too.  He’s pushing propaganda, it’s what our country does in our age of spin.  I’ve suggested to people over the years to read a few leading books on propaganda, it all makes sense.  The American populace has been steadily propagandized for over 100 years, that’s a long time.  It’s so effective that most people, regardless of education level, don’t even recognize it.  Your friends and mine could read a few books on the topic and stop being dupes-4-life if they chose to but it’s their choice.  I resent them for not believing me, as a friend.  I also encourage them to educate themselves on the topic of propaganda, as a friend. To see millions of people fooled by the latest propaganda campaign makes me feel disconnected from our culture, especially since this type of weaponized propaganda has been used for decades.  It’s so obvious if people would just educate themselves on one topic: propaganda.  Hang in there, most of the people here at JPR get it and with the truth coming out of the new House, Americans are starting to get it.

    • #46225
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,270

      @not4sale

      The best books for getting some understanding of our past are probably “War is a Racket”, and “Confessions of an Economic Hitman”.  Those are the two I most often see quoted, as well, by people who really know their stuff.  You are right about the propaganda – I can’t really fight that.  Not effectively, not alone.  Still, I’ll occasionally point out the truth as I see it – even on facebook – until they ban me – which they probably will, in time.

      I think a lot of Americans are starting to get it… I also think that a lot are not.  Makes me think of the Matrix, ya know?  Some people are so dedicated to the propaganda, the nonsense, that they’ll fight to protect it – perhaps even they realize it’s not true on a subconscious level – but admitting to that… accepting it… is hard.  Very hard.  @coldmountaintrail had a great post earlier about the people who really run the world – a group that controls some 41.1 trillion dollars.  That’s the sort of the thing that makes me realize – the whole system is built on, based on lies and propaganda.  Brain washing, manufacturing consent.  It is such a tangled web that they weave… and with 41.1 trillion (perhaps more, all told – perhaps even a lot more) the masters of the world can do as they please.  A true global uprising, perhaps, might be our only resolution – and even then… many years of dedication to bring down the rotten system.

      I think that, accepting things as they are… for a lot of us, is too much.  They would have to question the foundations upon which they have built their lives.  Their beliefs, their understanding of the world and the way it operates.  It is beyond humbling.  To realize how insignificant we are in the scheme of things – as compared to the true elite… it is not a matter of superiority (not in an inherent sense, or anything of the sort) – it is a matter of them having as close to absolute power as you can get on this earth (nearly unlimited wealth).  Could be our ideas about value need to change, our beliefs about capitalism, cash – and much more.

      It will be a long journey – and it will be painful.  To truly change the way things are… is going to require far more than any rebellion, any protest group, perhaps than even any Nation has ever gone.  I don’t know if it can be done peacefully.  I think it will at least require the arresting of a good number of people.  Then there is the problem that – with 41.1 trillion, the masters of the world could hire an army to slaughter any resistance, assuming they didn’t just use other tactics, PR, their controlled media, their controlled politicians….

      The further along I go in this political journey, the more I realize my own insignificance.  For me, that is not a bad thing.  I am, frankly, somewhat relieved.  The opposition is more powerful than I ever even suspected.  Our minds are more clouded than I once thought possible.  My share of responsibility in this, my part of the burden, I think, is to learn what I can – share what I can – and if that day comes when the uprising begins… to do what I can to help it along.

      I think.. I think I am more content than before, simply to be – and to be able to share my thoughts here at JPR.

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