Americans Desperate For A New Political Party/Jimmy Dore and Nick Brana

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    • #438542
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,767

      I’m putting this here since this 45 minute video since its focus is on the activities of the People’s Party. @mrmickeysmom @snortmcdork , you will like this one if you haven’t seen it already. Dore also responds to Kyle Kulinski’s argument that third parties are doomed to failure and progressives’ primary effort should be to support progressive Democrats in Congress.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438548
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 6,204

      I think it was Ron Placone who coined the phrase, “You can’t address catastrophic changes with incremental solutions!”

      Why the HELL Kyle Kullinski lost sight of this is beyond me. In fact, I cringed with disgust when seeing AOC recently pose with Bernie’s arm outside the Capital steps over the real event of Corey Bush, which was to sleep outside the Capital for days in protest to never doing anything about evictions.

      AOC and the rest of the so-called “Squad” could have brokered so many times in protest after loosing SO many opportunities to do the same, starting with FORCE THE VOTE!

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

      • #438557
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,767

        We know what “pragmatic” means in American political discourse, especially when it is used by any Democrat. It means worthless, sellout, inadequate, and fraudulent. It means if you send money to those people, then you are a sucker and PT Barnum is laughing at you.

        Personally, to me it means a waste of my increasingly limited and valuable time.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438566
      Jim Lane
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 865

      For those of us not eager to spend 45 minutes on the subject:

      1. Did they address the question of the Green Party? From what I’ve seen in the past, Brana’s answer has amounted to saying that a new party on the left will do better than the Greens just by virtue of being new and different. That’s unpersuasive. I disagree with the minor-party strategy entirely. Still, if I were a Green Party activist, who had toiled for years to build a new progressive party that might someday actually elect someone, I would be really pissed off at the MPP folks.

      For example, in many states, automatic ballot access (without having to petition for each office) depends on votes cast for the party. In New York, there’s a threshold to be met in the voting for President or, in the midterm years, for Governor. Reaching the threshold gives the party automatic ballot access for all partisan offices for the next two years. If the Green Party and the People’s Party each get 75% of the threshold, then neither of them gets ballot access.

      2. Speaking of ballot access, the MPP has been engaged in organizing since 2016. Is it yet on the ballot anywhere? It has registered in several states, but that appears to be different from the right to place its candidates on the ballot without having to submit petition signatures.

    • #438569
      leftcoast mountains
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,925

      At first I was hoping I was wrong but just don’t see this going anywhere. I like Nick Brana but don’t see him as a leader.

      vote for nobody

    • #439797
      eridani
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,978

      –that establishing a viable party would require.

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

      • #439852
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,767

        Until there are verifiable paper ballots, why should I even bother to vote? Tell me that. Or is that outside of your ever-shrinking Overton Window labeled voter outreach?

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

        • #440052
          eridani
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 9,978

          –have had  voting (mainly) by mail for decades.  Ballots are paper and tabulated by scanners.  The scanner count is cross-checked by random hand count audits.  A full hand count is required in any election where the difference between candidates is less than 0.5%

          Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

          • #440076
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 21,767

            .

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

            • #440213
              eridani
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 9,978

              And requires a complete hand recount if the difference between the candidates is less than 0.5%. That was what made Christine Gregoire governor in 2004 by a margin of less the 150 votes out of more than 4 million cast..  One thing that was highly reassuring is that the hand count added votes to the final tally for all three candidates, including the Libertarian.  This reflects the nature of scanner errors, which mainly come from the scanner very occasionally picking up more than one ballot, as computer printers sometimes do.

              https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/oct/23/the-2004-washington-election-was-not-repeat-not-ri/

              For those who have forgotten or weren’t around 12 years ago, Republican Rossi and Democrat Chris Gregoire were running for the open governor’s seat. Gregoire had the early edge, but Rossi was a good campaigner and was coming on strong in the final two weeks. He was ahead on election night, she was ahead the next day, it went back and forth for two weeks and in the final canvass, Rossi was ahead by 261 votes.

              That triggered a statute-required automatic machine recount, under the watchful eyes of both party’s observers. This left Rossi ahead by 42. That triggered a hand recount. During the recounts, several counties – not just King County – discovered some ballots that had been properly cast, but not counted. The political parties went to court, all the way to the Supremes, in a fight over what to do with them.

              The court ruled that since the voters had done everything right, but the counties had made the mistakes, they should be counted. They were, and Gregoire finished that last recount ahead by 129.

              Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

              • #440248
                Ohio Barbarian
                Moderator
                • Total Posts: 21,767

                Why not have hand-counted paper ballots and only hand-counted paper ballots? The British do. The only drawback is that it may take a few days to tally all of the votes, but, in your words, so what?

                Under the system you described, any number of electronic tabulators can be rigged and we’d still never be able to prove it. Why are you defending computerized ballots or scanners anyway? Just because that’s the way it is now? Another example of progressive pragmatism?

                It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

                You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

                • #440361
                  eridani
                  Participant
                  • Total Posts: 9,978

                  -39 incorporated cities, part or all of 17 state legislative districts, part or all of 3 congressional districts, plus hundreds of school, sewer, water, hospital and fire districts.  You are being silly why you discount hand count auditing.  Give me one good reason why random hand count audits can’t work.

                  BTW, the 2004 governor’s race took two months to count by hand. (The whole state instead of just one county, though.)

                  Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

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