Anyone Who’d Support Going To War Over Taiwan Is A Crazy Idiot (Caitlin Johnstone)

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    • #449037
      mrdmk
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      • Total Posts: 3,774

      Taiwan has been in the news a lot lately, and it’s really bringing out the crazy in people.

      The mass media have been falsely reporting that China has been encroaching on Taiwan’s “air defense zone”, which gets stretched into the even more ludicrous claim that China “sent warplanes flying over Taiwan”. In reality Chinese planes simply entered an arbitrarily designated area hundreds of miles from Taiwan’s coast it calls its “Air Defence Identification Zone”, which has no legally recognized existence and contains a significant portion of China’s mainland. This is likely a response to the way the US and its allies have been constantly sailing war ships into disputed waters to threaten Beijing.

      As Moon of Alabama reports, US warmongers inflamed this non-controversy even further by feeding a story to the press about the already public information that there are American troops in Taiwan training the military there, citing “concern” about the danger posed by China.

       

       

      Now headlines are blaring about President Tsai Ing-wen responding to this non-event with the announcement that Taiwan will “do whatever it takes to defend its freedom and democratic way of life.” Former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott just visited Taipei to advocate that “democracies stand shoulder to shoulder” with Taiwan against China. The CIA has announced the creation of a new spy center that will focus solely on China, which CIA Director William Burns says will “further strengthen our collective work on the most important geopolitical threat we face in the 21st century: an increasingly adversarial Chinese government”.

      A recent poll says that now more than half of Americans would support sending US troops to defend Taiwan from an invasion by the mainland, plainly the result of the aggressive propaganda campaign that has greatly escalated public hysteria about China. In Australia the mass media are cranking out unbelievably insane 60 Minutes episodes ridiculously pushing the idea that China may attack Australia and that Australians should be willing to go to war to protect Taiwan. I’ve been having many disturbing interactions with people online who emphatically support the idea of the US and its allies going to war with China over Taiwanese independence.

      This is clearly nuts, and anyone who buys into this line of thinking is a brainwashed fool.

      This isn’t some kind of complicated anti-imperialist issue, and it has nothing to do with which side you take in the debate over what government Taiwan belongs under. The US and its allies engaging in a full-scale war with nuclear-armed China over Taiwan is a prospect that should be vehemently opposed out of simple, garden variety self-preservation.

      Obviously if Beijing decides to launch a military assault on Taiwan in its bid to reunify China that would be a terrible thing which would cause a lot of suffering. I don’t think that will happen unless western powers push Taipei into declaring independence or otherwise upset the delicate diplomacy dance in some major way, but if it does happen under any circumstances that would be awful.

      But Taiwanese independence is not worth fighting a world war that could kill millions, and potentially billions if things go nuclear. This should be extremely obvious to everyone.

       

       

      War proponents will reference Hitler, as they literally always do whenever there’s talk of war against someone the United States doesn’t like, arguing that China taking Taiwan would be like the Nazis invading Poland after which they’ll just keep invading and conquering until they are stopped. But there’s no evidence that China has any interest in invading Japan, much less Australia, still less everyone else, or that it has any ambitions on the world stage beyond reunification and securing its own economic and security interests.

      The idea that China wants to take over a bunch of foreign lands, make you live under communism and give you a social credit score is the same kind of foam-brained bigoted othering which told previous generations that Black men want to take over your neighborhood so they can have sex with your wives. It’s the sort of belief that can only find purchase in an emotionally primitive mind that lacks the ability to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and understand that not everyone wants what you have.

      The jarring amount of pushback I’ve been getting for my very sane and moderate position that we should not be willing to start World War Three between nuclear powers over Taiwanese independence makes it abundantly clear that many people don’t truly understand that starting a war means you have to actually send actual human beings to go fight that war. All the big brave warrior men bloviating about the need to stand up to China know they’ll never find themselves on the front line of that conflict because they’re too old, but they’ll happily send my kids and the kids of countless of other mothers to go and fight in it. It’s like a video game or a movie to them.

      Propaganda has made us so compartmentalized and detached from the realities of the horrors of war. If people could really see what war is and what it does, truly grok deep down in their guts how their own governments are inflicting those horrors on people right now, they’d fall to their knees in anguish and never again advocate for such things. No sane person would support a war of this scale if they truly understood what it would mean.

      (Supporting links for the article at the link below)

      LINK–CaitlinJohnstone, Anyone Who’d Support Going To War Over Taiwan Is A Crazy Idiot

       

      If anybody is going to think a war with China will be a good thing, will be wrong. The first casualty will be Taiwan, the island will be leveled and blown to oblivion. Not to mention, China does have the ability to retaliate to any of the warring nations by way of missiles and other possible out of country measures. As far as the percentage of people in the U.S. who think it is a good idea to go to war with China, I am surprised it is not more. Apparently, there is a big push for war in Australia.

       

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #449045
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,774

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #449047
      jbnw
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      • Total Posts: 6,531

      Iraq was invaded in 1990 over Kuwait.

      Good thing Taiwan doesn’t have oil.

    • #449048
      gordyfl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,909

      Kim Iversen makes the case against alarmism on a possible war with China.

      In this video, Ryan Grimm gets hot under the collar when his anti-China views are challenged.

      Ryan Grimm: “I don’t want to hear about the United Arab Emirates or Saudi Arabia on human rights. I just don’t care.” Ryan Grimm only wants to focus on human rights if it pertains to our cold war enemy China.

      People in the comments section pointed out how the volume of Kim Iverson’s mike would decrease as Ryan Grimm interrupts.

      YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua81imsvh2w

       

    • #449052
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,796

      Haven’t watched it yet, but I do love their version of 60 Minutes.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #449077
        soryang
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,683

        did a reaction video to the Australian video, War with China.

        Alexander Mercouris did a response to the claim there isn’t a real crisis over Taiwan in today’s video about the US sub accident in the South China Sea. He documents why there is in fact escalating tension in the region over Taiwan. I agree with him. There is tension and it has been precipitated by the US side.

    • #449064
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,317

      I don’t think those pushing for it are crazy idiots.  I think they are people who believe massive profit will be gained if China is “out of the way”.

      China is not Iraq though.  If it does come to war, they have a very solid chance of winning.  That is even setting aside the potential use of nuclear weapons.

    • #449073
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,796

      What is her basis (and Ian Goodrum’s basis) for claiming that contrary to media reports, Chinese planes did not breach Taiwan’s territorial airspace?

      The ADIZ is something very different than Taiwanese airspace – much more expansive and broad and yes, including parts of China itself – but even so, the act of flying planes there is not a “non-event” as Johnstone characterizes it.

      Then she references “reunification”, but Taiwan (or as it was formerly known, “Formosa”) was subject to Beijing’s rule only for a 200 year period, ending in the late 19th Century, when Japan invaded. It remained subject to Japanese rule until the end of WWII, but Taiwan’s status was never resolved.

      Then she makes the comparison that the idea that ‘China is attempting to expand territory’ is like saying black men want to move in to your neighborhood in order to rape your women. Is Johnstone really that stupid? $543 Billion in foreign reserves and Taiwan’s chip industry, as well as Taiwan’s strategic position, are all very attractive targets, for one thing.

      Then she implies that only men support standing up to China, “big brave warrior men bloviating…” ??? What the fuck.

      I always like reading her blogs entries/opeds, but this one is super stupid.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #449113
        Earthartist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,641

        The US is so used to being the worlds bully that they think they can bully China. If they start a war it will not be a war with China it will be a war with China Russia Iran NK and all the other countries in the world who are sick of the neighborhood bully. I hope that someone with a brain is serving in the Military. The other thing that is so bazaar is everything everything we use comes from China I actually think the Chinese should give the US a little taste of life without China.

        Earthartist

    • #449099
      Mindwalker
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      • Total Posts: 399

      They do want to win the economic war, and they’re doing a really damn good job of it by lifting a lot of their people out of poverty, investing int heir country in a whole lot of ways.  They aren’t perfect, but they’re doing a hell of a lot more than us.  In fact, if anyone were to propose doing something that actually is great here, like to invest in the people and make us more economically competitive, a fucking army would come out and say we should just give rich people more tax breaks.  And that’s what would happen.

      • #449163
        Earthartist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,641

        Closeup I have no clue what you are talking about?  We do not have a mutual defense agreement, we don’t hold up any agreements ! We are a rouge state that has bombed couped color revolutioned, at the least  40 countries. We do not care about Taiwan we want to use it to get at China period. We have carpet bombed Taiwan in the past along with China along with Korea-and Japan.all civilian cities!  The Taiwanese people do not want this nor does anyone else in Asia they all work with the Chinese, who do not hold trade partners hostage like we do. Who keep their commitments unlike the US

        Earthartist

    • #449111
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 22,039

      Neither the American nor the Chinese military will allow it. It being a shooting war between the United States and China. Both sides got nukes. It is unthinkable, and there’s that not-so-secret understanding between the top military people in both countries. They have back channels open right now to avoid catastrophic misunderstandings, as recently came to light when the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs talked directly to the People’s Liberation Army when the latter expressed concerns about rumors in the American media about Trump doing something…rash since he had lost the election.

      He said he was just doing his job, and he was. He was also complying with that nice, effective informal agreement they’ve got going with the Russians and Chinese for sure, maybe the British and French as well. So far, it may have saved us several times already.

      I am just saying that we should be aware that that agreement is really a thing, that’s all, and that it clearly is still in working order.

      Caitlin Johnstone may never have heard of it. Hell, the Australian government may not know about it or take it seriously. It doesn’t matter. Johnstone is correct: a war with China to defend Taiwanese independence is simply insane  and should never be seriously considered, and ordinary people cheering it on should be challenged in the way she so effectively did here.

      That’s why that little informal international military agreement was made in the first place, to prevent insanity like this saber-rattling at China from causing a nuclear war, no matter what the heads of state decide.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #449115
        Earthartist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,641

        Mind walker they have very little history of expansionism in their 1000s of years, and from Mao forward each leader has worked to improve the lives of their people. Was it an easy road No was there a massive famine yes, but they kept moving forward. It is a fact, closeup that the Taiwan issue is settled it was settled at the same time  as HK . Regardless the US as no right to be sticking it’s bulling ass in the business of any other country but it’s own! Here is another little fact the people of Taiwan do not want the US doing this nor do they want their US puppet leader encouraging it. Most Taiwanese have families in China, their Trade is with China. The US could give a shit about these people they just want to bully. They will lose China is patient and smart bullies are bullies

        Earthartist

    • #449121
      gordyfl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,909

      One day, at the end of the workday, I picked up my newspaper and read her an article.

      “It says here,” I told her, “China is conducting military maneuvers which indicate China might be planning on invading Taiwan.”

      I remember how she threw her head back laughing. Then she said to me that China is not going to invade Taiwan, and added “China does that every year.” She shook her head “No.” She sounded like she was 100% certain.

      It’s been 25 years now since I read her that article and she is still right. China does military maneuvers and no invasion.

      However, things are different today than they were twenty-five years ago. For one, China is an economic threat to the U.S. With economic power, military power will follow. The U.S. is running out of time to slow down China’s growing power. I think our leaders are trying to figure out how to prevent China from expanding the Belt and Road Initiative, or at least slow it down. We (the U.S.) is trying to box them in somehow without actually going to war. China knows that.

      So, we’ll keep poking the dragon. And China will continue to show patience. They’ll continue building up their military (just in case), continue to improve their infrastructure, continue working with their trading partners, and continue to expand their Belt and Road as best they can, all things considered.

      Invading Taiwan is not a priority for them and not worth shaking up their plans. But we’ll keep poking away. We’ll keep spending more and more on our military to contain China — our new Cold War enemy.

      With all the money we spend on our military, we seem to be spreading ourselves thin — Iraq, Syria, Somalia and wherever else we fight the War on Terror. Like I said, China will practice patience, stay out of wars, and wait it out, as the U.S. economy declines.

      I hope we won’t be foolish enough to actually start a war with China, but accidents do happen.

    • #449166
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,641

      That sounds about right gordyfl.  When we moved to Taiwan I am not sure anymore  how americans were told that China was a threat but I remember worrying  about it until the Taiwanese told me it was bull. My best friends Husband was a diplomat in the Australian embassy and concurred with the Taiwanese. They also explained to me the relationship between the 2; they are one country and they were at the time very dependent on each other, today less so for China proper, as they have developed so fast and are now starting to catch up in the chip market. But every family has family in China.

      The whole Xinjiang stuff is very much what you are talking about; The belt and Road will be based out of there so how do you cause it to slow? Go back to CIA classic propaganda   They use it every time. The cia has been training Uighur’s now for years and using them in Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan with plans to slow or stop the Belt and Road.

      what I find amazing is that we spend all our money and effort to bomb terrorize drone kill and spend every last dime we have to do this instead of trying to actually compete! In the mean time Xi and the government have over whelming popularity, and we have trump and an Alzheimer’s patient for presidents!

      Earthartist

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