AOC says Bernie Sanders WOULD compromise on Medicare-for-All if he is elected and can't get Democrats in Congress to back it saying she'd accept the 'public

Homepage | Forums | Main Forums | Latest Breaking News | AOC says Bernie Sanders WOULD compromise on Medicare-for-All if he is elected and can't get Democrats in Congress to back it saying she'd accept the 'public

Viewing 27 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #270226
      Whattheheck
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 279
       option’ pushed by other candidates

      Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez suggested that a President Bernie Sanders would compromise on Medicare-for-All, one of the top issues that separates him from the more moderate Democratic hopefuls.

      ‘A president can’t wave a magic wand and pass any legislation they want,’ the New York Democrat and Sanders supporter told HuffPost this week, adding that she thought voters realized the reality of there begins an ‘inherent check’ on the president’s power called Congress.

      But with  Republicans in the Senate pulling the country to the right, AOC argued that Democrats should pick a lefty to counterweight their actions.

      ‘The worst case scenario?’ she mused. ‘We compromise deeply and we end up getting a public option,’ she said.

      Post edited to 4 paragraphs for compliance with copyright laws by moderator. 

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8004871/AOC-says-Bernie-Sanders-compromise-Medicare-elected.html

       

    • #270241
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,213

      As long as compromise doesn’t involve disemboweling the whole thing, which is what we got with the ACA. It was quisling Democrats who did that, of course.

    • #270243
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,893

      @whattheheck

      Hi wth,

      If that is Bernie’s position he will no longer have my support.

      TAT

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
      - George Orwell

      "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
      Rather than truth as the authority."
      - Gerald Massey

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

    • #270264
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,233

      What happened to Elizabeth Warren when she took this position?

      We must eliminate the role of health insurance in our health care.

      This is the reason Bernie has massive support, because his goal is Single Payer Medicare for All. He had better not lose sight of that fact.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #270265
      wilsonbooks
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 122

      real progress.  I don’t think that is a bad thing.  But when you are playing poker you don’t show your hand.

      “I will tell you what I will do and what I will not do. I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it calls itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defense
      the only arms I allow myself to use -- silence, exile, and cunning.”
      ― James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

    • #270274
      surrealAmerican
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 646

      What’s the worst case scenario for the proponents of “just like now, but with a public option”?

    • #270282
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 13,670

      Bernie’s position is very clear: Medicare for All, period. Would he compromise to get a public option through at first if he, say, absolutely could not get it through the Senate? If he had tried and failed? If the choice was public option now or nothing? Almost certainly he would, but he would continue to push for the whole hog and use it as a campaign issue in the midterms. Any competent President would. 

      The thing is, if one compromises before any legislation is even put forward, one gets a smidgeon of what one wants, if anything. I call that the Obama Lesson. The Vichy Dems haven’t learned it. Bernie has.

      Oh, this sort of thing has happened before. According to his diary, Ronald Reagan was amazed at how much of his agenda he got through Tip O’Neill’s Democratically controlled House of Representatives. Reagan only expected to get half, at most, of his legislation through, and instead got something closer to 90% done. He attributed his success, rightly, to his demanding everything and to public pressure.

      Does anyone really believe that Bernie Sanders is not aware of this?

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

      • #270284
        ThouArtThat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,893

        @ohiobarbarian

        Hi ob,

        If Bernie compromises on M4All, he loses my support.  Period!

        TAT

        "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
        - John F. Kennedy

        "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
        - George Orwell

        "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
        Rather than truth as the authority."
        - Gerald Massey

        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
        - Jiddu Krishnamurti

        • #270288
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 13,670

          @thouartthat Please see my reply to the OP. You seem to be throwing a temper tantrum. And you, as of last report, hadn’t even decided to register as a Democrat to vote for Bernie in the primary because you find that party label, no matter how meaningless it really is, so personally offensive.

          I’m not going to abandon Bernie because of a hypothetical scenario one of his supporters addressed. If you had ever had children, you would find your own response very familiar.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

          • #270294
            ThouArtThat
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 2,893

            @ohiobarbarian

            Hi ob,

            One just crossed a line that one has no knowledge of and accused this voter of something one has no way of knowing or knowing about.

            This citizen is the voter and has the right to make a choice based on the avowed policies of a candidate.

            If AOC is signaling that Bernie is willing to compromise on M4All then that is a Red Flag for this voter.

            Period End Of Statement!

            Before one continues to make insinuations about this voter, I suggest one reconsider what one knows and what one does not know.

            TAT

            "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
            - John F. Kennedy

            "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
            - George Orwell

            "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
            Rather than truth as the authority."
            - Gerald Massey

            "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
            - Jiddu Krishnamurti

            • #270370
              Ohio Barbarian
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 13,670

              You tell people in all the countries affected by imperialist, regime change wars that they’ll just have to endure more of the same because you may not get everything you want right away. You tell all those with crushing student loan debt and those who long for college you won’t help them be free of debt and obtain a higher education because you may not get everything you want all at once with Medicare for All.

              You tell my stepkids that they won’t even get the short term relief of a public option as an interim measure if, in spite of Bernie’s and our best efforts, we can’t get it all done at once, so they’ll just have to suck it up with no health insurance at all for another few years, or maybe forever.

              Sit up there wherever you are and feel morally superior if you wish. Stick by all of your precious principles, do nothing, and help damn us all to whatever dark fate awaits because neither Bernie, AOC, the system, or people like me meet your exacting standards.

              Bernie’s said all along that his election alone will not get it done, that it will take a strong, populist mass movement to get any real change done after he is elected. Did you think he was joking?

              You are willing to throw everything away over the possibility that one necessary reform may not happen right away. That attitude sickens me. We may not win right away. Why is that a revelation to you? We may yet, but you won’t even try. With allies like you who are willing to cut and run at the first thought of potential initial failure, who needs enemies? Fine. We’ll get it done without you.


              @thouartthat
              Go sulk. Give up. I won’t.

              It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

              If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

              • #270430
                ThouArtThat
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 2,893

                @ohiobarbarian

                Hi ob,

                If you choose to play the politics of compromise, that is your business not mine.

                Bernie is campaigning on M4All.

                That is a core and non-negotiable issue for me.

                That it is not a core issue for you is your challenge not mine.

                Give up?  I have no conception of what you are talking about.

                Why? Because I am not giving up on M4All which you seem all to willing to do.

                TAT

                 

                "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
                - John F. Kennedy

                "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
                - George Orwell

                "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
                Rather than truth as the authority."
                - Gerald Massey

                "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
                - Jiddu Krishnamurti

            • #270856
              Mr. Mickeys Mom
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 3,290

              … and I will say it directly to you.

              Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

      • #270448
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,075

        @ohiobarbarian

        The RW propaganda attacks on Bernie, designed to break up the unity of Bernie supporters, have begun.  Bernie wasn’t scary when Biden was leading. But now that it looks like Bernie may actually win the nomination, they will do everything they can to help take Bernie down, so that Trump can be re-elected.

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

        • #270478
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 13,670

          This is people on the left jumping to conclusions and running around like their hair’s on fire because the world is ending.

          People attributing to Bernie Sanders something Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said with no evidence he intends to do any such thing. One even said I have given up on Medicare for All when I said no such thing.

          AOC was just talking about a worst case scenario, and that is all. If this, then that. It’s just speculation on her part, yet some are thinking she and Bernie intend to sell us out. That’s what conspiracy theory thinking does to people. I will trust Bernie until I have good reason not to. I already have good reason not to trust any of the other candidates; some more than others, of course. @ravensong

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #270295
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,470

      Shut your mouth, woman.  What have you been doing, taking negotiating lessons from Obama?

      TAT:  Good for you, stick to your principles.

    • #270308
      KenTankerous
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 910

      …to say the least. How is this possible?

      "If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States."
      - Henry A. Wallace
      (FDR's Vice President until he was forced out by the corrupt forces of obscene wealth.)

    • #270311
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,233

      Talk like this from AOC will only serve to weaken our position. WTF? Is this more of the anti Bernie operation in action?

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #270325
      jwirr
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,427

      There is no question that it will not be easy to get Medicare for All through Congress but this is no time to talk compromise. My guess is that the opposition to M4All by the Union leaders is what is seen as the problem. Once upon a time it was Union support that helped get the New Deal through so that we had a safety net. Now they don’t even want to help us get a plan that is working for at least 30 other countries and has been for years. All because they want their bosses to have control of their healthcare. Bosses who have been cutting that plan for years.

      jwirr

    • #270346
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,358

      This is not something that can be compromised on.  People are suffering horrendously and dying as the result of our for profit healthcare system.  I will not take AOC’s word on this one – but if Bernie does compromise on this he will lose my support as well.

      I am sorry, but nothing but a full single payer system is going to cut it.  Anything else will be pushed through in a massive bill with hundreds of pages that few can understand – but it will surely screw us all.

      I am kind of passed angry at this point.  We must change, we must adapt and evolve as human beings – there is no time at all for half measures.  If Congress and/or the Senate refused to get behind Medicare for all – the best option is not compromise.

      It is to call on the American people to rally for it.  Millions would be willing to go.  I would go.  I wont support backing down on this issue though.  I cant.

      If that means ramming it down the throats of those who oppose it, so be it.  I dont care what it takes.  We need Medicare for all.

      • #270363
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 13,670

        How many times has he said that his election is just the beginning? How many times has he said it will take a massive popular movement pressuring Congress to get any of his proposed reforms through?

        Nothing has changed. No one, not Bernie, not AOC, and not I, have given up. Well, maybe some people here have, but that’s their problem.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #270349
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,164

      the question is if he is willing to accept the public option until he cleans up the House and Senate in 2022. Personally I think that the public option is a stall until it dies tactic, but Bernie is too dedicated to let that happen.

      Keep up the pressure TAT, that’s your job. It is also your job to mean it and make it stick. No more Max Baucuses!

      AOC screwed up bigly. The correct response (only if she could trust the questioner) was, “Bernie’s stated position is M4A. If you do not support M4A in 2021 Bernie might have to accept a public option for a year, but you will not be in office after 2022.”

    • #270354
      Two way street
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,581

      I believe that this is the start of Bernie’s Campaign to tell Americans that he needs a Senate and House that will pass the legislation for Medicare for All in January 2021.  If voters do not vote in those kind of lawmakers, then it might be that he will have to accept a Public Option until the next coming election in 2022, in order to vote the, ‘Bad Apples,’ from Congress.

      A Democratically held Senate and House of Representatives will pass the law moving the money that covers those age 55 to 64 from ACA over to Medicare for All or the current Medicare Program (Bernie’s Team will let us know how it will really change).

      This will be a change in his first proposal that he, as President, would go around the country speaking to the We the People about voting out specific lawmakers from Congress on the harmful things they have done and will be continuing to do, to We the People.

      I like Bernie’s new path better.  It is sort of like killing two birds with one stone; do we want Medicare For All now with a cooperating Congress voted in to office on Nov. 3rd, or will we have to bargain with corporate Democrats and Republicans sitting in Congress after Jan. 1, 2021?  That would mean that Bernie would have to fall back on his plan of going around the country trying to get Kentuckians to make McConnel vote for Medicare For All.

      In my opinion, voting them out of Office as we vote Bernie into the Office of the President, November 3, 2020, will be a lot better and faster way of getting Medicare for All passed the last week of January 2021 or right after Bernie’s Inauguration.

      Hope Californians put a stop to Nancy Pelosi preventing Medicare for All from coming to a vote on the House Floor by voting her out of office.  Will Bernie campaign in California, for one of her General Election rivals in the coming California Super Tuesday Primary, March 3, 2020?

      Thanks everyone for reading my 2 cents worth.  Hope to see Bernie’s Campaign now start to run with his request that Americans make it possible for us to get everything Bernie has been running on all his life in just short number of days beginning January 2021.  Do your homework and vote for Progressives.

       

      2020 Campaign Season: We the People are in the fight for our lives and livelihoods.

    • #270355
      The Red Menace
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,080

      But if the Democrats decide to shove their heads up the GOP’s ass and refuse to support M4A, well… what then? Sanders isn’t just going to sit on his duff and do nothing at all. Of course he’ll fight for M4A in that case, but if the Democrats refuse to budge, well fuck, what can he do? You can’t introduce a nationwide health service that abolishes an entire industry and give every American the best coverage in the world with an executive order, after all.

      So the important thing would be for Democrats to be on board… Or to throw them out of office if they’re not.

      • #270399
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 13,670

        @twilightsporkle

        A cynic is one who sees the world as it is, rather than the world as it should be. Hence the Scythian custom of cutting out a cynic’s eyes so he can see the world as it should be.–Robert A. Heinlein

        You are one of the few people here who are probably farther to the left than I am, yet you support an old Social Democrat because you know that FDR-style reforms can save and improve the lives of many millions. They are not our ultimate goals, but they might make those goals possible without bloody revolution and civil war, and he can change foreign policy without much congressional support. Surely, that alone has value.

        Our government is so corrupt, the oligarchy so entrenched, that only the fear of a revolution might get them to move. Bernie Sanders understands that only mass demonstrations and public pressure after he is elected can generate that fear.

        I think AOC made a tactical error in admitting the very real possibility that progressives may not be able to get M4All thru Congress in his first two years, but she told nothing less than the truth. That is a real possibility. Bernie voted for Obamacare mainly because of Medicaid expansion that brought real health care to millions. The same people who railed against him doing that then are the same ones who are now saying Bernie could lose their support over this one thing this one congresswoman, and not even Bernie himself, said.

        Cheers.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

        • #270528
          The Red Menace
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,080

          A cynic is one who sees the world as it is, rather than the world as it should be. Hence the Scythian custom of cutting out a cynic’s eyes so he can see the world as it should be.–Robert A. Heinlein

          Bleh, Heinlein. It’s amazing that in a period of the genre largely defined by pseudofascist power-fantasy, this one dude managed to stand above the rest and actually gross people out at the time. Bleh, I says!

          You are one of the few people here who are probably farther to the left than I am, yet you support an old Social Democrat because you know that FDR-style reforms can save and improve the lives of many millions. They are not our ultimate goals, but they might make those goals possible without bloody revolution and civil war, and he can change foreign policy without much congressional support. Surely, that alone has value.

          I’ve never been a fan of the accelerationist school of thought, you know, “If we can’t have full socialism now, we need to sit back and let things go to shit faster so people will want socialism more.” I mean as a theory it makes sense, but in practice, that’s real human suffering you’re looking at. And the whole point is to make life better. If you’re actively making things worse – or even just sitting by and letting it happen – then what the fuck is your point, right?

          I supported the ACA too, as inadequate as it was, because it helped. Not enough, by far, but a little bit is better than nothing. The thing is, I believed Obama when he said that it was supposed to be a “stepping stone” towards something more comprehensive. So that turned out to be a fucking lie, and now we have democrats who have enshrined this leaky-ass bathtub of a policy as the gold standard, which is insane to me. The point is to help people, improve the lives of the society. And if you can do that, even just a little, you need to do it. But never settle. Everything can always be improved. There are failings in Sanders’ plan as well, but one must do what one can.

          I support Bernie Sanders because we need a crowbar, and I think that he’s the best crowbar available right now.

          Our government is so corrupt, the oligarchy so entrenched, that only the fear of a revolution might get them to move. Bernie Sanders understands that only mass demonstrations and public pressure after he is elected can generate that fear.

          Here’s hoping more politically mainstream Bernie supporters understand this as well. I’m afraid there will be a mentality of “there we did it,” and a lot of laurel-resting… just like what happened with Obama in ’09+. However, it seems most of Sanders “mainstream” support trends towards the same outlook as the OWS protesters, who were perfectly fine with demanding more from Obama… so there’s hope on that angle.

          I think AOC made a tactical error in admitting the very real possibility that progressives may not be able to get M4All thru Congress in his first two years, but she told nothing less than the truth. That is a real possibility. Bernie voted for Obamacare mainly because of Medicaid expansion that brought real health care to millions. The same people who railed against him doing that then are the same ones who are now saying Bernie could lose their support over this one thing this one congresswoman, and not even Bernie himself, said.

          When I was train to be a SEIU rep and negotiator, one of the important things was to come to the table with more than you actually wanted, and never let the other side of the table know what your non-negotiables were until you got to them. You ask for the sun and the moon, and you negotiate from there. ideally you come out with more than your baseline expectations.

          I think that’s what sanders’ plan is doing; it’s better and more comprehensive than any single-payer plan in history. It’s so good that if implemented as-is, Canadians will be sneaking south for doctor’s appointments for a change. But I have to think that a lot of that is padding for negotiation; stuff to get pared out of the plan while wheeling and dealing. The idea is to get a single-payer plan passed, and while having the universe’s best plan would certainly be great, frankly a lot of us would settle for something akin to Japan or Norway or even Indonesia.

          Ocasio-Cortez’ mistake was tipping her own hand – if she says “I’d be willing to go down to a public option,” then there’s going to be endless pressure on her to do exactly that. There’s gonna be the expectation that the plan can be scraped down to just that. Never, ever tell the other side of hte table what your bottom line is, because they will ALWAYS try to start negotiations from that point.

          And hey. A public option would be good… but it’s manifestly not good enough. I say from experience; i’m poor enough to get AppleCare, the Washington state insurance plan. it’s good, don’t get me wrong, I pay nothing out of pocket for what it covers… Except for the fact that an astounding number of doctors and dentists don’t fucking accept AppleCare. There are three dentists in my little town – none of them take AppleCare. I have to take the ferry into Seattle, and another hour drive after that to see a dentist. Our health clinic accepts AppleCare, but it’s just a clinic, so I’d have to – again – go into Seattle or Tacoma if I have anything other than basic medical needs.

          • #270531
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 13,670

            @twilightsporkle

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #270357
      xloadiex
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 143

      I questioned this on WOTB and this was the answer someone posted to me. It was AOC’s response to her saying this.

      Related tweets by AOC replying to Neera Tanden:

      FYI, I speak for myself as a member of Congress- if I were speaking on behalf of a campaign, I’d say so!

      2nd I think there’s a legitimate convo btwn starting with what you want & starting w/ compromise. I believe a public option is worse than M4A, so we should fight for M4A 1st.

      Ironically, the context of this quote is me pointing out how the failure of ACA negotiations resulted in killing the public option 10 years ago. I think it’s an important case study to examine, regardless of where one ultimately lands on the issue.

      https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1228109199915307009

    • #270393
      RobertFromNC
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 91

      not compromise on Medicare for All unless he can’t get it passed, and even then, I think that he would continue to fight for it as long as he is in office. With that being said, this does beg the question, What should we reasonably expect a Sanders administration to accomplish? Personally, I have never felt that getting Medicare for All all at once is something that is really achievable, although if there is anybody that could do it, it would be Sanders.

    • #270394
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,358

      @ohiobarbarian

      Compromise, right?  I got into some nasty shouting matches with family members over it who told me that Obama “did the best he could”.  I said that if that was the case, then his best sucked.  It doesn’t matter if you are facing opposition in your own party, if there is obstruction from the opposing one, it doesn’t matter if lobbyists are buying up congress members left and right.  What matters is having the support of the public.  What matters is – if you ask them to, will they come?  In Bernie’s case – the answer to that question is currently yes.  That can easily change.  It WILL change if the talk shifts to under what circumstances we can/will or should compromise.  We make it clear.  There are no such circumstances.

      If we need legions of the public to camp out on some assholes lawns, so be it.  If we need to march down the streets of every city with a guillotine, so be it.  If it requires mass civil disobedience and protest, so be it.  It probably will!  I am all for that!  What I am not for is saying “Oh, well if we can’t get this… we will compromise”  No, I fucking won’t.  You shouldn’t either.  None of us should.  I am not saying don’t support Bernie for this reason, your vote is your own – but what happens when you compromise with evil, bro?  What happens when good people do nothing?

      If the corporate democrats get their way, if the republicans do, there will never be a medicare for all.  Compromising with them, with their despicable ignorance, greed and corruption – is going the wrong way, leading down the wrong path.  I would much rather fight such evil and lose than compromise with it.  The compromise, whatever it turns out to be, will leave millions without medication, without treatment, without help.  That can no longer be accepted, it can no longer be tolerated.

      If it requires going to extremes, we go to extremes.  We need healthcare reform, we need to treat a sick Nation in which the quality of the average life – and its expectancy is going down rather than up – all according to the level of one’s income.  The Country we have now is not sustainable, not acceptable.  It is an occupation by the wealthiest and most corrupt – and we can and will break them.  It is up to you, me, TAT, everyone in this damn thread and everyone on this damn forum to make it happen.

      In this case, to compromise means to permit more suffering and death than is acceptable.  Which is ANY – when it is happening as the direct result as a lack of money to pay for it.  You know, if I had had adequate healthcare in my twenties I probably could have made it through college, I’d probably have a real job and a life a thousand times better than my current one.  I’m a drop of water in the ocean of this misery that is inflicted on us – not by us – but by those who think we should not have the same rights that they do.  Those who think that we should not have the same healthcare, that we do not deserve it because we are not rich enough.  Fuck that – and fuck them.

      I support Bernie for several reasons – but among those at the top of that list is Medicare for all.  There is no middle ground here – there hasn’t been for a very long time.

      All those other issues you refer to?  Our chances of resolving them in any way that benefits us, our people, our Nation, or our world, go down dramatically if we compromise with the powers that be.  No, we need to kick their fucking asses – metaphorically and figuratively speaking… for now.  If that doesn’t work, then those who have made peaceful revolution impossible will have made violent revolution inevitable.

      • #270409
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 13,670

        I don’t think comparing that con artist to Bernie is being fair to Bernie, however…

        I hear you. It will take a lot to get it done. What set me off are people saying they won’t even support Bernie, and possibly allow the re-election of Trump or worse, Bloomberg, because one of his supporters hinted at a short-term legislative compromise as a worst case scenario. That sort of thing is what I hate about the left. We’re so fragmented, and way too many people fly off the handle and sulk and won’t support someone if they’re not pure enough for them in every way. I’ve seen that all my life, and I’m sick of it.

        The Obamabots used that “boo-hoo you didn’t get your pony” argument for years because it contains an element of truth, though unlike anyone here, they used it to justify doing nothing except to preserve the overall status quo. In short, they took a truth and twisted it to defend their lie. I’m not doing that, and neither is AOC. I see people jumping to conclusions, throwing their hands up in the air, and implying all hope of a political revolution is lost.

        And that pisses me off.

        I meant what I said about children, and mine simply don’t have time for that kind of thing, and are far more important to me than some internet poster’s feelings. I’m a parent. That’s the way it is, and cannot and should not change.

        The doom-and-gloomers are wrong today. They might be proven right some day, but that day is not yet. Nevada and South Carolina haven’t even voted in the primary, and Medicare for All has yet to be voted on in the House, much less the Senate. Let’s do the best we can now and in the future to insure Bernie Sanders is successful. If that fails, then revolutions and guillotines remain an option.

        The thing is, those who withdraw their support from someone like Bernie now, over something like this, are exceedingly unlikely to join you and me on the barricades if that time ever comes. Don’t count on them if that time ever comes, for they are not reliable. They’ll find some reason to justify inaction on their part.


        @davidthegnome
        Stay strong, brother. I know you won’t give up.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

      • #270539
        The Red Menace
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,080

        @davidthegnome

        His plan was always bait and switch; get elected on promises of striving for single payer, then plopping RomneyCare into our laps and telling us to “just accept it.”

        The ACA is so lackluster and disappointing… that it actually opens a door for my leftist ass to have something positive to say about Donald Trump: “At least he ended the individual mandate.” Like holy shit, what a fucking idea. “Too poor for insurance? Well we’re gonna charge you money for that.”

        That said… it was still something. A drowning man needs a boat, but he’ll try to keep himself afloat with a pop bottle; and we got a pop bottle. Better than splashing around without anything.

        If we need legions of the public to camp out on some assholes lawns, so be it.  If we need to march down the streets of every city with a guillotine, so be it.  If it requires mass civil disobedience and protest, so be it.  It probably will!  I am all for that!  What I am not for is saying “Oh, well if we can’t get this… we will compromise”  No, I fucking won’t.  You shouldn’t either.  None of us should.  I am not saying don’t support Bernie for this reason, your vote is your own – but what happens when you compromise with evil, bro?  What happens when good people do nothing?

        Absolutely. We shouldn’t compromise. The trouble is, Sanders and his allies are in a different position; He’s dealing with one party who believe ideals and empathy are for schmucks and that money and power is all that matters… and another party that is the GOP, which stands for “Genocide Of Poors.” It’s a hard position. Basically it ends up “negotiate or nothing.”

        Our role in this is to put as much pressure on these anti-human cretins as possible, to force them into taking the better part of sanders’ offer. Absolutely, occupy, disrupt, protest. Fuck, hit Dianne Feinstein with a fucking chair, it’ll hurt her less than people rationing insulin are hurting after all! We don’t compromise; we fight. And through this we can put pressure to the backs of the democrats and their Republican sugardaddies –  that they accept the best deal, or we will put our knives in them.

        And feel free to use your own judgement on whether those knives should be figurative or not, because, fucking hell it IS a life or death matter.

        Anyone who thinks the next eight years aren’t going to be a fucking battle is deluded. The question up right now is “how much blood will there be?”

    • #270404
      Satan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,966

      Irony here is that Barry Obama won the 2008 primary because he promised the Public Option, while Hillary was pushing the mandatory corporate insurance Romneycare (actually Nixon/Heritage Foundation care) model. And as Howard Dean said at the time, the advantage of the public option would be that the corporate insurance companies would either have to clean up their act to compete, or get out of the business, leaving a single payer system, by default.

      So if Obama had stuck to his own plan, odds are very good that it would have evolved into a single payer system in the 10 years since then.

      It would have been a decent strategy in 2009. I do NOT think it would be one now, because  the US simply cannot wait another decade to have a functional health care system. Especially not if this coronavirus shit continues to spread all over the planet, or if other things of that nature pop up. And they probably will… in fact, climate change & the warming of formerly permanently frozen areas could bring ancient diseases back to the surface for which no living mortal has any sort of immunity. It could be one HELL of an unholy mess when these things happen and millions of mortals still can’t get to a doctor’s office.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #270414
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,358

      @satan

      If I remember correctly – it was the supreme court that decided states could determine, individually, whether or not to go through with the Medicaid expansion.  It was right around the time I was applying and appealing for Maine’s version of it (Mainecare).  Despite it being put to a state-wide vote and approved, Governor LePage did everything he could to prevent it, obstruct it, slow it down.  He succeeded right up until the end of his second term, despite being order by the higher authorities to implement it.  Of course, prior to that, the state legislators shot it down by like one vote.  I remember that well because it was my own local legislator that cast the deciding no expansion vote.

      I remember, working full time for a really crappy hotel, I earned (barely) “too little” to qualify for subsidies under the ACA – and could not get Medicaid because I wasn’t screwed up enough yet.  Well, not much later, I was plenty screwed up enough, finally got it through a program called MaineCare disability – about a year and a half before I got my disability approved.  It makes a hell of a difference.  My case worker (back when I had one) called it “the best health insurance that money can’t buy”.  Even so, I’ve already had it taken away once – which was quite a surprise when the receptionist at my doctors office told me about it.  I had missed a review – turned out they didn’t have my write number or address on file.  So, I called, re-applied, got it back a few weeks later.

      Still got a bill for almost 200 bucks from the dentist, all for stuff which the Doc himself told me Medicaid would cover.  Apparently not.  It is yet another one of those monthly bills I glance at, rip up – and throw in the garbage.  No money to pay for it.  In fact, the federal government just cut my only income (SSI/disability) by some 270 dollars, because, apparently, some bean counter at the SSA decided that 783 dollars a month was just too much luxury.  I don’t know how they determined that I get “271 a month in housing/food support” – because I pay 350 a month in rent and another 100 for the car and buy a lot of my own food… but, whatever, its so damn ridiculous at this point.  To hell with it.

      My lawyer is a dick who doesn’t respond to phone calls and will probably be headed your way soon (if there is justice in the hereafter) so I can’t look to him for help.  I will have to ultimately file an appeal in writing – probably lose, then try to appeal again.  Until then, my new income is 522 a month.  That wouldn’t even pay for a single ER visit for a broken bone.  Hell, not even remotely close.

      I expect I’ll lose all of my benefits eventually anyway.

    • #270419
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,904

      There simply is no other alternative candidate in the same universe as Bernie.  IMO.  So my choice of voting/supporting is crystal clear.

      I am gonna use that “pragmatic” thing here – come what may, come hell or high water – Bernie not being able to get much of anything done is still a million times better than a Vichy Dem who would have a Congress slavering at the bit to wreak austerity and war.  And IMO Obama never had any fucking intention of putting a public option into place.

    • #270421
      Nick Xylas
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 106

      The president is not a king, whatever the current incumbent thinks. If he can’t get it through Congress, then that’s on Congress, not on Bernie.

      Anyone else remember when JPR was a Berniecrat site rather than a MAGA forum?

    • #270436
      Dragon Turtle
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 68

      Worked wonders for Jeremy Corbyn catering to neoliberal EU remainers, for him and Labour in their last election…

      rolls eyes

    • #270466
      Captain Arizona
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 150

      Looks like bernie is going to try and win the nomination.

    • #270504
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,233

      I wonder about outside influence on AOC. Threats even, maybe.

      If there is one sure way to undermine a Sander’s candidacy it is to sow doubts about his dedication to Authentic Medicare for All.

      Medicare for All is the main reason for Bernie’s huge support.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #271013
      ProgRockinProg
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 48

      There’s a difference in believability in a third wayer like Obama saying he will stake his Presidency on having a public option.  And Bernie Sanders saying that single payer is the ultimate goal but may have to compromise to at least move it forward.  Obama, and the establishment, and the big insurance companies were happy with how it worked out, mostly. So he didn’t feel he had to even address it further.

      With Bernie, we know that even if he doesn’t have the votes to initiate a complete transformation of the medical insurance industry, that that is still a Berning passion for him. And he will do everything he can to set it up, educate, and pave the way for a future President (AOC?) actually pass a true single payer plan.

      Its important to help curb the upcoming Trump assault painting Sanders as an uncompromising SOCIALIST.  Also hinting at compromise would talk many frightened old Democrats back from the ledge.

    • #271151
      L0oniX
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 470

      If some people want to continue with their existing insurance I say …let em. It’s crazy but if they want to pay $400< a month premiums with a $5000 yearly deductible then let them do that. It’s fucking crazy but it’s not illegal to be crazy in the USA.

      Fuck the DNC and its heard of goats

    • #273135
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,972

      Sanders himself voted for the ACA because it was the best deal on the table.

      The biggest reason why I’m voting for Sanders is because he will fight for the best deal possible like he did when he got in shouting matches with McCain when Republicans wanted to privatize the VA but he came up with a deal which is one of the biggest (false) knock against Sanders.

      I’m not falling for divide and conquer between Sanders & AOC and urge others here not to fall for it. AOC highlighted the failures in negotiations on ACA.

Viewing 27 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.