Barbarian at the Gates: If there is no UBI, then public schools MUST reopen

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    • #335445
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      This issue is already being politicized, with Donald Trump calling for all schools, K-at least 16, to physically reopen. I am only going to address K-12 public schools; I really don’t care about any private schools as I like the Finnish model( to @voltairine ), and colleges are a different animal.

      If there is no UBI, then to keep the public schools closed is sheer cruelty to tens of millions of working class Americans.

      If you’re a single working class parent of one or more children, you rely on the public school not only for your child’s education, but also social and psychological well-being. More than that, public schools provide daycare in exchange for ridiculously expensive and mandatory school supplies, and quite likely two good free meals for your children up to five days a week.

      Most working class families spend a third to half their net incomes on housing costs, and food’s not cheap, so those meals make a big difference. In the Cleveland area, they opened some schools at mealtimes just to feed children who relied on it.

      Just what is a working class parent supposed to do if the schools stay closed and they have to work in order to avoid eviction? They can leave the child at home and hope they’re OK, wondering every day if that will be the day Children’s Services is called or there’s an accident or a fire or a teenage boy gets your teenage girl pregnant in your bedroom.

      If you are asking why they don’t just put them in daycare, well, there was practically no affordable daycare available in this country before the pandemic and much less now. Most daycare facilities got shut down or had to reduce the number of children they can take in for social distancing purposes. The latter raised their rates to make up some of the difference for not having as many paying customers. This has already happened. Forget daycare for the working class.

      Not only all that, but the parents are supposed to basically home school their kids on the internet. Most are terribly unqualified to do that, and many cannot afford the internet in the first place. If they can, they often can’t afford the high speed internet required for things like mandatory Zoom conferences.

      In short, if you’re a working class parent dependent on the already limited services public schools provide, and those schools are closed, and you don’t get any additional, long term, and reliable cash assistance, then you’re life is a fucking nightmare.

      It’s just wrong to treat people that way. Period. It must not be allowed. If Edmund Burke were still around, he’d be asking the ruling class, “Are you trying to create a French Revolution?”

      If the government decides that public schools must be closed in order to protect the public health, then there must be UBI for those families who depend on public schools. If there’s no UBI, then the public schools must be physically open for the children of all parents who wish for their kids to be at school during the day. If they want to keep them home, fine.

      Please contact your Congresscritters and governors and state representatives and let them know that if they support closing  public schools without UBI, you won’t vote for them. Ever.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #335459
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,241

      How the US Government treated their citizens is the definitions of the following phrases:

      ‘Between a rock and a hard place’

      ‘Damned if you do, damned if you don’t’

      I am sure there are others. Please add if you know any…

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

    • #335474
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 5,877

      1. Hire more teachers

      2. Have smaller classes, which means…

      3. Fewer students per teacher

      4. Reopen all those schools they have closed to accommodate the above situation

      5. Pay teachers more

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #335477
      Two way street
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,829

      for COVID-19.  Did the test pick up the infection or not and how long does the school/parents need to wait to find out?  Where are the students getting their lunch, eating it and who is sanitizing between stall visits during the day for hundreds of students?  How many school personnel will be holding detention for students taking off their masks?

      Then on school day 7, students start reporting to the school nurse with COVID symptoms. Testing for CV-19?

      What a sad situation of kids coming in and out of school with teachers and substitute teachers coming in and out of the facility.

      I would like to see all GOP Re-opening politicians and Red State lawmakers voted out of office  over this over the next 6 years.

      Who is being quarantined for two weeks at home?  The nightmare gets worse.  How many teachers are in the two week quarantine?

      2020 Campaign Season: We the People are in the fight for our lives and livelihoods.

    • #335483
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 4,303

      So, while it’s a nation-wide crime from Betsy DeVos that we are draining school funding, the formula in NY state for example relies in large percentage on the state, whereas PA, it relies on local taxes. We’re getting ready to pay $1,700 in taxes for our local school district here in PA, which has highly paid teachers, but over 40% of kids who need free lunch. It’s a formula that continually decays, due to charter schools, and can only get worse under DeVos administration.

      The working class cannot handle this crisis without UBI. Not everyone should have UBI, which includes those without kids in K-12, retired like us, or income means tested, they can handle the juggle of costs… means test? I dunno…

      We simply are being brought to our knees with this pandemic and we have ZERO leadership. I’m ready to break down the doors of Congressional District offices and demand answers from these careless assholes.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #335492
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,507

      The Powers That Be (TPTB) will not allow it to even be discussed.

      The public schools will reopen… pandemic or not… they will reopen!  This Fall.

      Demand Congresscritters open schools or support UBI…. you’re kidding… right?!!!

    • #335530
      NJCher
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,085

      There’s an educator in NJ who goes by the name of Jersey Jazzman.  He wrote the most common sense piece on this topic that I’ve seen yet. I think I saw it published in the NY Times, but when I went there for the link, I couldn’t find it. Consequently, I checked his blog and found the essay posted. It’s under the blog title of “How Schools Work. A Practical Guide…”

      Here’s an excerpt, but I urge you to read the entire essay plus the comments.

      snip

      – Children, especially young children, cannot be expected to stay six feet away from everyone else during an entire school day. Sorry, even if a school has the room, it’s just not going to happen. One adult can’t keep eyes on a couple/few dozen children every second of every hour of every day to ensure they don’t drift into each others’ spaces. You certainly can’t do that and teach. And you can’t expect children to self-police. Young children are simply not developmentally able to remind themselves over seven hours not to get near each other.

      – Children cannot be expected to wear masks of any kind for the duration of a school day. At some point, the mask has to come off; even adult medical professionals take breaks. And anyone who’s worked with young children knows they will play with their masks and not even realize they’re doing it. It’s simply unrealistic to expect otherwise.

      – The typical American school cannot accommodate social distancing of their student population for the duration of the school day. Schools were designed for efficiency, which means crowded hallways and tight classrooms. Schools are expected to foster student and teacher interactions, which means close quarters. Expecting every students and staff member to maintain a 3 foot bubble* around themselves is not realistic given the way most school buildings are laid out.

      snip

      Link to Jersey Jazzman’s blog (no paywall like the NY Times!)

       

    • #335601
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      @janboehmermann With this bunch of stupid Fascist bastards in charge, when I look into the future all I see is Ragnarok. I just wanted to put the situation many of my and my stepdaughter’s coworkers are staring in the face out there.

      It’s real bad.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #335603
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      @njcher If they don’t provide UBI and reopen the schools, that’s just a risk millions of people will be force to take. If they close the schools with no UBI, then we’ll have millions of kids home alone. What’s worse?

      For me, home alone is worse. Far worse, and much more dangerous for the children themselves. Yes, I value children’s lives more than adults sometimes. Pregnant women and children first. It’s kinda sorta in my DNA, I suppose.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #335624
      ElfinWilde
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 279

      their last day, I’ve been pondering the question of whether or not to go back when school opens in August.

      The school board announced a plan in our district where the half the student body would go to school on Mondays and Thursdays and the other half on Tuesdays and Fridays with every one on distance learning on Wednesdays.  Wedensdays and Saturdays would be deep cleaning for the schools.

      I thought that if they mandated masks, I would seriously consider going back into the schools.  They haven’t mandated masks yet, and judging from the (really stupid) very vocal parents online, masks will not be required.  Then Governor DeSantis and the Florida Education Department announced that school MUST open at least five days a week.

      Demanding that the school be open regardless of the Covid 19 status so parents can go back to work sure sounds a lot like Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick saying that we should be willing to sacrifice Grandma and Grandpa for the sake of Wall Street.  But this time the suggestion is to sacrifice our children…

      Teachers want to go back to school too; they need their paychecks as much as anyone else.  But they don’t want to die or risk permanent disability for their paychecks.  And they certainly don’t want to see our children dying for their education.

      UBI might provide enough extra income for the parents to pay for child care, but, even in the very unlikely event that it is passed by Congress and signed by Trump, it will not be in place in time for schools to open in three and a half weeks.

      If you want the schools to open in the meantime, then fight for the things that will help protect our children and teachers first.  Those things can be implemented in the short time left.

      Edited to ads this meme I found on my Facebook feed.  It sums up the issue of who is responsible and who is not.

      Image may contain: text that says 'Let me say this loud for those in the back -Teachers are not responsible for the recovery of the economy, babysitting children, or "getting us back to normal." Stop trying to guilt us into risking our lives for the government's failure to act.'

      You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here.

    • #335639
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      @elfinwilde

      Teachers should never have been asked to make that choice. And no mandated masks or face shields? That’s just stupid. Unfortunately, teachers will be asked to make that choice in at least some states. That’s the screwed up empire we live in.

      But drop the nonsense about sacrificing kids. This thing is no more than a bad cold for nearly ALL of them, which is far less risk than being left home alone. I’m sorry to be so blunt, and don’t wish to insult you, but you’re a teacher. You should think that the well-being of the kids is more important than your own, or you have no business being a teacher.

      That’s how I see it, and I’ve put myself on the line before because that was my job, which, BTW, is why I despise our current police. In my culture, that gives me the right to say this. In fact, it’s the only thing that gives it to me. The police put their lives over those of citizens, and therefore have no business being cops.

      You can argue that my standards are too high, but without standards like that civilization collapses.

      That said, I’ll be happy to scream at my congresscritter and senators and state officials on behalf of helping schools and teachers. I don’t wish you or any teachers any harm, but I cannot turn my back on these working class people. They’re my people, you see.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #335665
      ElfinWilde
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 279

      I don’t know what your job was and have no way of knowing what your point of reference is.  I do think you make harsh judgements on very little information.

      I am thinking of the welfare of the children.  These kids have been out of school since mid March and Ihaven’t heard of any cases of small children being left on their own in these last four months.  Believe me, around here, that kind of thing gets broadcast on the news and on Facebook very loudly.

      You assume a lot when you decided that I have no business being a teacher because you assume that most children will be left home alone to cope for themselves.  I am concerned for children’s welfare.  I’d say that one of the first things you do is not to risk children’s exposure to a plague that is airborne and super contagious.

      Perhaps you have not heard of the complications of Covid 19 in children?  Perhaps because children have not been in school since March the chances of passin it on to each other have been lessened.  Yes, it is true that children are less likely to get Covid 19 and generally have milder cases than adults, but not everything is known about Covid 19 yet.  We learn more every day.  And Covid 19 is changing rapidly.  What might not be targeting children today could tomorrow.  And even in mild cases of Covid 19, it turns out that there is often serious organ damage that ensued.

      https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200514/covid19-may-trigger-rare-complication-in-children

      But new reports, from the U.S. and several European countries, suggest that in rare cases, children can have a collection of symptoms — including lengthy feverslow blood pressure, rashes, red eyes, stomach upset, and inflammation of the heart and its arteries — that share features of toxic shock syndrome and Kawasaki disease.

      There’s even a debate about what to call it. A group of pediatricians studying these cases around the world has named the new condition pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome, or PMIS. Some believe it is a more severe form of Kawasaki disease.  The CDC told doctors to watch for and report cases of multisystem inflammatory syndrome – children, or MISC, to their local health departments.

      In New York, 102 cases of the rare condition have been diagnosed, and three children, ages 5, 7, and 18, have died. New York City, the epicenter of the outbreak, has more than 50 cases.

      “This is a truly disturbing situation, and I know parents around the state and around the country are very concerned about this, and they should be. If we have this issue in New York, it’s probably in other states,” New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said at a recent news briefing.

      Just one last thing.  I have the option of not going back to school this year.  I am in the at risk age group for Covid 19.  And my husband, who is 73, is high risk cateory for various health problems.  I will probably exercise that option, but that does not in any way change my mind about the schools being opened fully in August.  Had the school board stuck to its guns and did the alternating schedule, I would be less opposed.

      I do know this:  If my son were still school aged, he would not be going back for the fall semester.  He would be doing virtual school or being home schooled.

      You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here.

    • #335750
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      @elfinwilde There should be UBI. Mrs. Barbarian and I are about to leave for a rally in front of Congresscritter Fudge’s house demanding that and other Needed Things like rent cancellation. If they do nothing, there will be at least 23 million Americans evicted by the end of September, and whether the schools open or not will be a comparatively minor issue.

      I suppose I’m employing social and political triage’ out of a desire to help the most people survive. I shouldn’t be having to think that way, but I can if I must. UBI for the duration is the bare minimum the federal government must do if it wants to avoid…social unrest…and possibly even our own October Revolution. If it does that, by all means, close the damned schools but give these people some real help.

      No one ever sees precisely when a successful revolution will happen in advance, not even the revolutionaries themselves.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #335847
      ElfinWilde
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 279

      projected death toll of school children at 0.02%.  Which doesn’t seem like a large amount (if it isn’t your child, a relative’s child, or someone you or your child knows).

      But the reality is that  50.8 million children were expected to attend public school in 2019. So let’s assume 48 million children attend in 2021. That 0.02% comes to 960,000 dead children.

      I don’t think that is an acceptable number for any preventable reason.

      UBI would be nice, but it is a separate issue from school openings.  Except for the fact that the incredible failures on the Covid 19 issues and the economic issues are/were brought to us by the same people bringing the school opening problems.


      @ohiobarbarian

      You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here.

      • #335880
        So Far From Heaven
        Keymaster
        • Total Posts: 6,974

        @elfinwilde

        Two hundredths of one percent (that is 0.02% that you have written) of 48 million is 9600.

        If it’s supposed to be 2 percent (0.02 but no percent sign) then it’s gonna be 960000.

        No fucking way it’s gonna be a mil. That would then be saying that upwards of 7 mil dead overall with the same statistical percentage of 2 percent.

        Of course, that also means that everyone has to get it.

    • #335850
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      Chances are fewer than a million Americans total will die of this before a vaccine is developed or herd immunity is, admittedly brutally, achieved. I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I’m done here.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

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