Because M. Moore wants a robust discussion of sustainable renewable energy to continue, …

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    • #368592
      Canoeist52
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 129

      Here is a 30-min. nuanced, multiple-point scientific rebuttal film by Dave Borlace of <b>Just</b> <b>Have</b> <b>a</b> <b>Think</b>.
      Better to watch on YouTube for the long list if links underneath the video, for detailed back-up of each point.

      "There is nothing pragmatic about an incremental solution to a catastrophic problem." - Ron Placone

    • #368601
      Canoeist52
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 129

      Despite a dramatic reduction in fertility rates since 1950, our global population continues to rise. This week we discover the reason for that apparent contradiction. We also consider one of the biggest implications of our increased numbers, and have a think about what each of us can do to minimise our impact.

      "There is nothing pragmatic about an incremental solution to a catastrophic problem." - Ron Placone

    • #368629
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @canoeist52

      Hi canoeist,

      Here you go, bottom up review of available minerals to replace all ICE vehicles with battery power. This analysis just looks at raw materials and says nothing about environmental destruction or CO2 emissions. The bottom line is the whole EV revolution is a non-starter just based on material availability alone.

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #368642
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @canoeist52

      Hi canoeist,

      More utopia failures – Why Energiewende failed in Germany.

      http://energyskeptic.com/2019/germanys-renewable-energy-program-energiewende-is-a-big-expensive-failure/

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/05/06/the-reason-renewables-cant-power-modern-civilization-is-because-they-were-never-meant-to/#81977acea2b9

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/09/05/renewables-threaten-german-economy-energy-supply-mckinsey-warns-in-new-report/#72f2e5d88e48

      https://www.thegwpf.com/germanys-green-energy-failure/

      https://stopthesethings.com/2018/08/13/germanys-renewable-energy-disaster-part-1-wind-solar-deemed-technological-failures/

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #368657
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,376
    • #368658
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,558

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nuclearpower-terrapower/bill-gates-nuclear-venture-plans-reactor-to-complement-solar-wind-power-boom-idUSKBN25N2U8

      And at a billion dollars for each cute little reactor, with hundreds planned all over the world, the “cost” will magically become NOT an issue.   Gates owns the company, Natrium.  I will assume the usual protection against costs in case of an accident will be in place, too.

       

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

    • #368660
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @canoeist52

      Hi canoeist,

      More practical realities on intermittancy from wind and solar.

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #368667
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @canoeist52

      Hi canoeist,

      Love him or hate him, Gates has valid points about the delusion of Green Energy running Western Industrial Civilization.

      Extract

      Full Discussion

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #368674
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @canoeist52

      Hi canoeist,

      Below is the energy source and sink chart (energy flows) for the US in 2019. Please explain exactly how wind and solar are going to supplant non-electrical energy use presently supplied by fossil fuels?

      Based on analysis up thread, we know that there are insufficient raw materials to even produce the batteries required to convert all ICE engines to electric. So, given that limitation, how would ever be able to build enough battery capacity to buffer the intermittency of wind and solar (the point Bill Gates make up thread)?

      US energy flows

      Source: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/content/assets/images/energy/us/Energy_US_2019.png

      Source: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #368679
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @canoeist52

      Hi canoeist,

      More harsh realities.

      TAT


      A Brown New Deal – Conciuosness of Sheep

      https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2020/06/04/a-brown-new-deal/

      Snip …

      The harsh reality is that despite the Herculean deployment of wind turbines, solar panels and biofuel plants over the last three decades, fossil fuels still provide more than 86 percent of the energy that powers the global economy. Indeed, strip away hydroelectric power – since there are limited additional valleys left to dam – and remaining renewable energy accounts for just four percent of our consumption; most of it in the form of electricity which is more or less useless to our most critical (heavy) transport, agricultural and industrial needs:

      reality

      This is the immoral and unpalatable (and thus glossed over in establishment media) aspect of the proposed green new deal – it amounts to a final imperial resource grab in which a handful of developed states use what remains of the value of their currencies to secure the last of planet Earth’s resources in one final economic blowout that will last right up until the first of the irreplaceable wind turbines and solar panels begin to breakdown. Après ce, le deluge…

      There is simply no way in which the global economy gets to grow without fossil fuels – which, incidentally, are essential at every stage of the manufacture, transportation, deployment and maintenance of non-renewable renewable energy-harvesting technologies. The unspoken paradox of the green new deal is that you would need to double the fossil fuel that we currently burn to build, deploy and maintain enough non-renewables to replace the fossil fuel that we currently burn. And if you are going to do that, why not go for the simple black new deal being offered by politicians like Trump?

      Snip …

      If neither a green nor a black new deal is available to us, what is to be done? One answer is a kind of brown new deal based around a managed de-growth aimed at making the collapse of industrial civilisation as painless as possible. Such an approach does not claim any one energy source as better or worse than another, but rather aims to utilise the energy we still have available to us to simplify, regionalise and localise our economies as best we can in the time available to us. Nor does such an approach fit into traditional left v right political views which are all based upon the religion of progress and endless growth. Rather, it views a combination of the raw power of the state and the innovativeness of private markets to work together to create as soft a landing as possible.

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #369829
      tk2kewl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,672

      this here is the problem regardless of how cheap renewable become: we are running out of planet.

      our global economy is a ponzi scheme that will take the biosphere down with it.

      that is a steep curve that shows no signs of levelling off.

    • #369831
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,560

      Hmm no response?

      Tat nice job. I have given up on the green movement

      man humans are I believe are closely related to lemmings

      Earthartist

    • #369850
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,276

      As genuine sustainable, renewable energy?  I don’t think there is – not at the level at which it is currently used.  We would have to cut way the hell back on consumption and work towards population reduction.  I don’t think there is a fix for this one beyond the obliteration of most of our species.  The world will continue – and perhaps in time heal.  Perhaps some humans will live, but I do not think there is any avoiding billions of deaths at this point.

      I hope that I am wrong.

    • #369900
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,364

      Simply because there are billions of people alive right now.  The world needs to figure out how to give those already here a decent life, and just not add to the numbers already alive.

      Forget about one-child policies or ‘zero population growth’,  we need a drastic decline in consumption, and the best way to do that is a very stingy small birth rate — like maybe one child per thousand adults.  Keep that up for 20 or 30 years, and that generation will have  a real chance at having a good life.

      What does that mean policy-wise?  It means free birth control of any method to any woman of child-bearing age.  It means paying people to undergo sterilization procedures, and making it fashionable NOT to be fertile.  It means taking care of people in their old age so that they don’t “have children to take care of us when we get old”.

      Once the human population goes under a billion, maybe then we can have a discussion about how many people the Earth can sustain.

      Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

      If you just got finessed into calling the medicine that won the 2015 Nobel Prize for its role in treating human disease ‘horse de-wormer’ then you need to sit the next couple of plays out.

    • #370080
      Canoeist52
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 129

      What is the movement waiting in the wings,  that will replace it?
      I refuse to embrace the nihilism of doom – that we’re just going to let it all crash. I’m sad that no one sees the division-line caused in the movement, to derail our goal toward a survivable human habitat.  If we continue to fight each other, rather than the fossil-fuel extraction monopolies, (and the nuclear industry that I suspect is behind this divisive ill-timed film) we will surely have a front-row seat to the demise of our species.

      I prefer to align with any that are trying to find and enable solutions, whether through “keeping it in the ground” renewable farming practices or the “buy nothing” anti-consumption movement that is growing exponentially right now.  In this instance it’s all hands on deck…solutions to pull us back from the environmental cliff, are not necessarily binary.

      "There is nothing pragmatic about an incremental solution to a catastrophic problem." - Ron Placone

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