Home Main Forums General Discussion Bernie Sanders can't shake his imperialist piggishness–Glen Ford, BAR

  • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
    Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

    Bernie Sanders can't shake his imperialist piggishness–Glen Ford, BAR

    Two days before Glen Ford slammed Morgan Freeman for spewing CIA propaganda about Russia and proclaiming that we are in a state of war with that country, he viciously attacked Bernie Sanders for being an imperialist pig in this commentary on the Black Agenda Report.

    Here’s the first two paragraphs:

    Donald Trump’s performance last week at the UN General Assembly set the rhetorical bar for U.S. imperial piggery at a 21st century low — although Hillary “We came, we saw, he died” Clinton is surely his equal in moral depravity. At about the same time that Trump was threatening to incinerate a whole nation of people, Bernie Sanders attempted to fill in the vast holes in his own foreign policy profile, in a speech at Westminster College in Fulton, Missouri, the same venue where Winston Churchill, the 20th century’s prototypical western imperial pig politician, delivered his Cold War-initiating “Iron Curtain descending on Europe” speech in 1946. This is deep swine territory, and Sanders could not help but wallow in it.

    Churchill was an arch racist , an admirer of fascists until they threatened his home island and its global colonial empire, and a great innovator in war crimes against civilian populations — and, therefore, a hero of the Wild White West. Sanders revealed his own swinish predilections in Westminster. The Vermont senator reverently quoted Churchill’s “strategic concept” to provide “nothing less than the safety and welfare, the freedom and progress, of all the homes and families of all the men and women in all the lands.” What these words actually meant in the mouth of an imperialist, is eternal subjugation of the darker races while rich white men bore the “burden” of global governance. But Sanders chose to give the most benign interpretation to Churchill’s colonial pig-talk, claiming the British prime minister’s “challenge” to current society means moving “toward a global community in which people have the decent jobs, food, clean water, education, health care and housing they need.”

    My first thought was that Ford hadn’t seen the same speech I did. My second thought was that Ford was being a doctrinaire leftist asshole. I was right the second time.

    My take on the “logic” of Ford’s argument is that since Sanders stood on the same stage that Churchill did when he made his famous Iron Curtain speech, all the faults of the old British imperialist somehow magically enveloped Bernie. What a load of bovine manure!

    I’ve seen Bernie’s speech and read the transcript. Here’s a JPR link.

    Bernie praised the Iran deal as an example of diplomacy working better than regime change and/or war, that’s all. Nowhere in his article does the vaunted Glen Ford even mention how Bernie used the examples of the CIA-backed coup against Mossadeq in Iran in 1953 eventually resulting in the Islamic Republic, his comments on the failed intervention in Vietnam, or on the Latin American torture states our government helped establish and maintain in the 1980’s. All of these examples were cited by Sanders as examples of failures of American foreign policy, not successes, which hardly sounds imperialist.

    Further, Ford deliberately omits one of the central premises of Bernie’s speech, which is why he stood on the Churchillian stage in the first place: Churchill offered what he thought was a true global vision of what Western foreign policy needed to be in the face of Stalinist Communism, but now it is time to offer a different vision, one of cooperation with other countries in order to combat the twin global threats of climate change and inequality of wealth, and the use of diplomacy and dialogue rather than regime change and military force when dealing with countries with whom we have problems. Ford either didn’t understand that, or was deliberately ignoring it.

    Glen Ford, your parsing of Sanders’ speech to fit your own preconceived leftist frame of him as a Democratic sheep dog of the left is as low as Reagan’s reference to the Soviet Union as the “evil empire” or Dubya’s pompous declaration that other countries are “either with us or against us” after 9/11/2001. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Salemcourt, Bubzer, PuffGranny and 37 othersXyzse, DoctorJ, Baba OhReally, a2liberal, Ejbr, ozoneman, bemildred, Admiral Loinpresser, LaaDeeDaaVA, xynthee, Enthusiast, Scuba, slay, Ferd Berfel, gordyfl, mmonk, Two way street, OCMI, iggy, cascadiance, Haikugal, hopemountain, dreamnightwind, Dragonfli, Iwalani88, daleanime, Mom Cat, Flying Squirrel, Major Hogwash, Peace Patriot, Abelenkpe, Koko, nevereVereven, ThouArtThat, joentokyo, Marym625, 99Forever like this
    Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

▼ Hide Reply Index
54 replies
  • 2 weeks ago #1
  • 2 weeks ago #2
    • Fawke Em (3966 posts)
      Profile photo of Fawke Em Donor

      1. Who is Glen Ford?

      And why should we care what he says?

          
      • HassleCat (1430 posts)
        Profile photo of HassleCat

        3. I wondered the same thing.

        He knows the word “pig” and it’s variants. Other than that, he appears to be just a crank.

      • Marym625 (25802 posts)
        Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

        5. Been reading him for years

        Sometimes agree but usually not. He’s, imo, a self important jerk. Criticizes without substance or offering any solutions. Not a journalist, a commentator

        He’s been on lots of publications over the years

        "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        7. He's on the Black Agenda Report, a very leftist, usually Marxian, website, that

        often has some great stuff. For example, they had a piece, I don’t remember whether Ford did it or not, exposing Kamala Harris’ corporatist connections and talking about what a fraud she is from a progressive point of view. They are mostly African-American, and were scathingly critical of Obama. My favorite term of theirs was “Black Derangement Syndrome,” whereby most black people supported Obama on everything he did or didn’t do just because he was black.

        IOW, they are great at tearing up identity politics. OTOH, they sometimes come out with hit pieces like this. I just couldn’t let this one slide.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • carrotguy (157 posts)
          Profile photo of carrotguy Donor

          33. Thanks for clearing that up

          sigh Obama

      • shaayecanaan (444 posts)
        Profile photo of shaayecanaan Donor

        28. He's a member of the Green Party

        or at least has some relationship with them, and accordingly just about everyone except Jill Stein can expect to receive a few bon mots from him from time to time.

        I enjoy reading his posts, and if you see him in the flesh, he can really box. His criticisms of Bernie are genuine, as you say, he’s not being opportunistic, Bernie is genuinely not sufficiently to the left to please him.

        One thing that the Greens do that Bernie frankly should have done better was to build relationships with the Black Left, so he would have had some firepower with which to respond to the smears the establishment ran against him. He had Adolph Reed in his corner but didnt take advantage of that. Ben Dixon and Lester Spence were sympathetic as well but likewise I dont think that Bernie reached out to them.

      • tonyl (911 posts)
        Profile photo of tonyl Donor

        30. seconded.

        Because you cant have integrity occasionally
      • HIP56948 (2807 posts)
        Profile photo of HIP56948 Donor

        36. At your service

      • Katashi (937 posts)
        Profile photo of Katashi

        39. He's an Actor. He was Superman's Dad.

      • Bubzer (158 posts)
        Profile photo of Bubzer

        49. My sentiments exactly.

        For someone who seems long on complaints, he seems awfully short on solutions. To my mind, that makes him part of the problem… not the solution.

        #Egalitarianism

    • 99Forever (3198 posts)
      Profile photo of 99Forever Moderator

      2. Well put OB.

      Obvious agendas are obvious.

    • Marym625 (25802 posts)
      Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

      4. On The Daily Radical

      Totally agree

      "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        9. Wow, I didn't expect that, but thanks. Sometimes I think it important to point

        out fundamentally flawed critiques from the left as well as the right/Third Way. If we are going to have a successful progressive movement in this country, sometimes we will have to cooperate with people with whom we don’t always see eye to eye, but agree with on some key issues. There’s a tendency of some on the left to dismiss everything about anyone who doesn’t share a certain ideological doctrine, and I find it counterproductive.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • Marym625 (25802 posts)
          Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

          10. I think it depends on what.

          Sometimes, yeah, we need to cooperate. Sometimes, on some things, never.

          "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
          • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
            Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

            15. Agreed. It depends. Things like economic justice and inequality of wealth,

            an end to imperial wars, the right to education and health care, these are basic for me. Putting people, even politicians, into preconceived, neat little boxes, not so much.

            Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
            • Marym625 (25802 posts)
              Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

              19. Bingo!

              "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • Jefferson23 (6535 posts)
      Profile photo of Jefferson23 Donor

      6. I read his work often. He is invited on Real News Network frequently enough.

      He was hard on Obama too and I have agreed with some of his points of view before. On foreign policy Bernie is not that outside the box and if he should become president there are undoubtedly going to be a percentage of Americans who will be disappointed.

      Ford is correct about the Iran deal…no deal was even necessary in first place to keep Iran “in line” and not blow up the world. But Ford doesn’t want to talk about the power of US politics. Imo, Obama placated the neocons/neoliberals of each party. If Ford is suggesting that was not necessary I would disagree. Obama did it right on Iran and showed as president his use of power was not going to be ignored.

      I don’t think its a coincidence that Bernie selected to avoid a detailed foreign policy agenda in 2016 election season. It is a political minefield for him in that both parties are hawks..for the most part, in my view. His agenda was going to focus primarily on domestic policy and not even that was not welcomed by the Democratic Party….he constantly pointed out corruption as the roots of most issues, as we all know.

      Ford seems to be yearning for an unvarnished speech reflecting a bold foreign policy…..that’s ok. Agree with him or not, and his style can be off putting at times, but Sanders can take it. It is the mainstream media I worry about much more.

      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        8. I usually agree with Glen Ford, but not this time. Yes, he was right about the

        Iran deal being unnecessary from a strictly factual point of view, but I don’t think that was really how Obama, and the governments of Russia, China, France, Britain, Germany, and Iran itself saw it. They saw it as necessary not so much to rein in Iran, but to tie the hands of the next American administration from invading Iran for the same false reasons that Bush invaded Iraq. But even that wasn’t how Bernie used it in his speech.

        Bernie used it as an example of diplomacy providing better, and inexpensive, results as opposed to regime change and war. That was it. And he was correct.

        He also talked about moving closer to Iran and further from Saudi Arabia in middle eastern policy, which makes an awful lot of sense from several different perspectives. It was also a very politically courageous act.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • Jefferson23 (6535 posts)
          Profile photo of Jefferson23 Donor

          12. I do believe Obama knew the Iran meme was bullshit, its something

          I was trying to get across about Ford. He seems to prefer to ignore and or has no patience for that kind of political bullshit. I get that, but we agree, Bernie embraced the deal for the same reasons as Obama. He was also the only Senator other than Rand Paul to not vote for the recent sanctions against Russia that included those imposed upon Iran. I waited for Obama to stand up for his deal and there was silence in his approach when it came to all those Democrats who went along with it unlike those two. So who is it working to save ACA and the Iran deal? The irony for Obama is rather rich indeed since he had to make sure Perez took over and not Ellison….Obama can be an egotistical jerk while trying to preserve his legacy.

          • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
            Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

            16. Rich indeed. Those speaking fees he is raking in are making him rich indeed.

            Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
            • Jefferson23 (6535 posts)
              Profile photo of Jefferson23 Donor

              21. Yes…without a care in the world too.

              • Haikugal (5778 posts)
                Profile photo of Haikugal Donor

                26. He shows his ass to our faces…fucker gets away with it too. I hear a horse

                laugh.

                  Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!! Kick against the pricks!!!
        • nevereVereven (3164 posts)
          Profile photo of nevereVereven Donor

          22. He's produced some fine work, but this is not among it.

          Looks like he typed this with his head up his ass- kinda sad to read it.

          A hologram of a magnifying glass will also function as a magnifying glass, but a hologram of Sherlock Holmes won't solve anything.  
      • Major Hogwash (2777 posts)
        Profile photo of Major Hogwash Donor

        13. There was something else going on at the time, as well.

        I don’t think its a coincidence that Bernie selected to avoid a detailed foreign policy agenda in 2016 election season.

        Bernie stayed away from laying out specific details about his foreign policy plans last year because the situation was so tenuous at the time, it could change drastically in just 24 hours. Obama was pretty good at sticking to his own policy most of the time, but I think Bernie knew that Obama could stray from that policy “any day now”.  And that might wind up making Bernie look foolish later on for something he said.

        Whenever America is involved in a war, and last year we were involved with at least 3 at the same time — Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria — it isn’t a good idea to be specific about any plan a politician might want to implement for the simple reason that things can rapidly change drastically and, as a result, it may wind up making them look foolish in just a few months time, or even a few weeks, or possibly even a few days.

        The mainstream media would have had a field day trashing Bernie if he would have been specific about what to do, and then if something unexpected had happened, the MSM would say he is disconnected or out of touch with reality.  So, it was a good idea for him to speak in generalities about foreign policy last year. I think he can be more specific next time because Trump isn’t going to enact anything Bernie thinks is a good idea anyway. Trump is too busy tweeting to get involved with foreign policy, anyway.

        Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
        • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
          Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

          17. That makes logical sense to me.

          Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • RealityCheck (899 posts)
          Profile photo of RealityCheck

          53. very rational thinking

          Good call, MH. I remember during Bernie’s impossible win against the chosen HRC that this same very reason was discussed. He also couldn’t just come right out for the most part and say that he’d stand hard to avoid war(s) because, when running a campaign during a fixed Primary, he really needed every vote possible. Like you stated, he gave vague answers to most foreign policy traps set by any HRC media. It was all about survival.

          This Glen Ford fellar almost reminds me of a ‘creeping closer to senility’ Clint Eastwood.

          • Major Hogwash (2777 posts)
            Profile photo of Major Hogwash Donor

            54. Ford may just wind up talking to a bunch of empty chairs before it is over.

            I haven’t seen a progressive candidate the likes of Bernie since McGovern. So, I think Ford is out to lunch talking smack about him in this article. I don’t care that Ford is black, there was no other prez candidate that had a serious track record for fighting for racial or economic equality, other then Bernie.

            Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
    • rudycantfail (127 posts)
      Profile photo of rudycantfail

      11. His argument here is not pursuasive

      but Morgan Freeman deserves to be slammed for spewing CIA propaganda about Russia.

      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        18. Yes, Freeman got exactly what he deserved from Glen Ford.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
    • Peace Patriot (2524 posts)
      Profile photo of Peace Patriot Donor

      14. It's okay for people to rant – but that's all this is, re Bernie, & it's wrong..

      …especially after Bernie’s Intercept interview – which was published almost the same day as his Westminster College speech – in which he slammed both Israel and Saudi Arabia.  Re: Israel, he said he would consider voting against Israel’s (huge) U.S. subsidies (if they don’t shape up on human rights) – a VERY courageous thing for any U.S. politician to say.  Re: Saudi Arabia, he said, “Saudi Arabia is NOT our ally.”

      Those are truly gutsy positions.  And the OP writer, Glen Ford, either doesn’t know about them, or chose to ignore them.

      “…doctrinaire leftist asshole.”  Agree.  I understand, from the above, this guy is sometimes righteous.  But this article is so over-the-top as a rant, and so wrong, that I could never trust him and I won’t read him again unless I have to, for some reason.  He has burned whatever bridge he might have had to me.

      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        20. I completely agree with you that the positions Bernie Sanders is now taking on

        foreign policy are courageous indeed. Maybe it’s because it’s kinda hard to call him anti-Semitic when he’s Jewish. Maybe it’s because AIPAC and company have gone completely over the top on labeling anyone who dares criticize Israel, even when Israel is doing things Himmler would have approved of, a Nazi. Maybe it’s because he’s in his seventies and figures he has nothing to lose by calling things like he sees them. Whatever, I heartily approve of what he has been saying about foreign policy, not to mention tax policy, health care, and Puerto Rico, lately.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
    • hopemountain (2176 posts)
      Profile photo of hopemountain Donor

      23. appreciate the shared analysis on this thread

      of a doctrinaire leftest asshole with a superiority complex trying to fit bernie into the op’s square hole. ford’s ego may have exceeded his own intelligence.

      "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth ....
      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        24. "Ford's ego may have exceeded his own intelligence."

        That may be exactly what happened here. I’ll see if he’s smart enough to realize it or not. Some commentators do, you know.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
    • RufusTFirefly (2207 posts)
      Profile photo of RufusTFirefly Donor

      25. I've been reading Glen for a while. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus

      Like others on this thread, I’ve been reading and listening to Glen for quite some time. And like others, I don’t always agree with him. At his best, he’s a reminder of what actual left wing positions are like. (Most folks have absolutely no idea.)  At his worst, he’s a provocateur on the left. (Heaven knows we’ve got enough of them on the right.) But he almost always makes me think. And in cases where I disagree, I’m forced to mentally muster a rebuttal. I think that’s a good thing.

      It’s also important to remember that Glen was a charter member of the original October 2011 Coalition that planned to occupy DC to protest the 10th anniversary of Afghanistan invasion but was ultimately overshadowed by Occupy Wall Street. Others included Chris Hedges, Ray McGovern, Lee Camp, Margaret Flowers, Ted Rall, and Kevin Zeese.

      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        27. I'm with you on this one. As I said above, I agree with him most of the time

        when I read or listen to him. This time, though, I think he completely missed the point. I’m not ready to throw him in particular, or the BAR in general, under the bus either. Because they do make me think. Hell, I used to read the National Review until they stopped making me think, and I usually disagreed with them.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
      • Coldmountaintrail (2453 posts)
        Profile photo of Coldmountaintrail

        42. ++

    • Dragonfli (1285 posts)
      Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

      29. Very disappointing, yet not unexpected

      I remember (quite some time age, around the beginning of the Obama fiasco) taking a break from the brainwashed automatons at SV and helping to develop and promote a haven that started out quite similar to JPR.

      A haven for independent progressives which were not chained to a corrupted Democratic party. We had many FDR dems (social democrats), democratic socialists, socialists and marxists. It began well enough, with discussion similar to those had here by people that tried to reasonably discuss the rightward direction and goals of the false flag Obama infiltration of right wing advocacy while seeking options for truly beneficial hope and change.

      Discussions were had of a nature that nearly got me tombstoned at SV (although factually correct and quite logic rather than emotion based and which broke no written rules). With others, some of whom actually were tombstoned for pointing out some inconvenient, yet absolutely factual information while discussing such things with me.

      “Doctrinaire leftist assholes took it over” as you put it, some advocated (one even demanded) senseless violence and severe exclusivity for a select few began to set in. I witnessed cherry picking from respected Socialist and Marxist based obscure passages, twisted beyond original meaning, expressed as shamelessly and deliberately as one might witness a right wing preacher extrapolating prosperity gospel and hatred for one’s brothers and sisters from Christian text, which, if anything, (as advocated by the lead character Jesus) taught the opposite – warning of the dangers of wealth destroying the better aspects of one’s character (soul) as well as the opposite of the “hate thy neighbor” message of the Christian right.

      I was banned from there for defending my friend Keith from an unprovoked attack, a few friends from that time/place actually post here, friends I happily welcome and respect who were part of the productive and helpful initial dialogues there before the changes.

      You and I have disagreed in the past, but I have always felt we were on the same page regarding our take on the true virtues of Socialism. I imagine you have seen others fall off the edge, I know I have. It is troubling when it happens to someone as respected by me as the one mentioned in your OP.

      My hope is head is promptly extracted from ass before any real damage to an ideology that truly does represent and work well for the struggling masses is tarnished and the inevitable culling of the socialist herd reduces the voice of socialism to an angry, exclusive and bubble enclosed clique of navel gazing, unhelpful, and potentially damaging to the cause, group of self masturbatory, unaccepting of the masses they once wished to help, circle of “true believers  (in the sound of their own voices to the exclusion of those in need of actual help, support, and guidance).”

      I have seen it’s microcosm and it helped no one, I hope the macro does not fall prey to the same fate.

      “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

        

      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        31. That sounds like Progressive Independent, which was taken over by Stalinists

        and is now called The Bell Forum. I’m still a member there, simply because I never got banned. They labeled me a Trotskyite. Haven’t been over there in years. Last time I looked, there were maybe a dozen active members going on and on about the philosophy of dead Russian Communists. If you want to really take a dive into deep Marxist theory, they’ve got it.

        There was another site, the name of which I can’t remember, which wasn’t taken over. It was good for awhile, then it was like the owner just gave up and let it crash. Left Underground? I can’t remember.

        No, you and I may not always agree, but you nearly always make me think. I like that. Glen Ford used to nearly always make me think, but this time, I didn’t have to think very hard. Disappointing to say the least.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • Dragonfli (1285 posts)
          Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

          32. Yes, I helped start PI, I even produced the original graphics and

          before having lost everything, I created and purchased the original bumper stickers. I should have been labeled a trotskyite as well, but because I frustrated the black hole kid, I was labeled an Obama lover (absurd to anyone anywhere familiar with either me or my posting history).

          “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

            

          • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
            Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

            34. You, an Obama lover? Bawahahaha! I think I came in right at the end of your time

            there. I hated the swarms often led by that kid. There were others who were far worse than him, but there’s no point in rehashing what by internet standards is ancient history. I’ll give them one thing, though, they were right about Obama from 2006 on. The first to describe him for what he really was.

            Damn, but JPR is a far superior site to what that one became.

            Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
            • Dragonfli (1285 posts)
              Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

              35. Ironically, I wrote the first fact based ANTI-OBAMA OP written there!

              I lit the damn fuse of the bomb pointing out the Obama reality that so few were willing to admit back then.

              No good deed goes unpunished I guess, LOL.

              Yes JPR is far superior, had it gone as originally discussed by Tin, Mike and myself however it may have become a sister site rather than an ode to Stalin.

              “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

                

              • Coldmountaintrail (2453 posts)
                Profile photo of Coldmountaintrail

                43. jpr might have become an ode to stalin? am i reading you right?

                • Dragonfli (1285 posts)
                  Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

                  44. No, I don't believe JPR has ever had even the slightest of that potential

                  You have to follow the conversation I was having, it was fairly clear and straightforward.

                  We were talking about a site that had poor leadership but began well, this site has solid leadership and I do not foresee a band of bullies taking it over with a narrow dogmatic  point of view as did the other.

                  My comment was bemoaning the fate of a site that had it not fallen to bullying from some overly indoctrinated assholes that were actually the minority, the rest (some of whom post here) may have developed it as a sister site to ours, the ones expelled and bullied were anti neoliberal progressives like most of us here.

                  Bad endings, a promising potential lost (It had members with views similar to C99% and us), Unfortunately it went the way of a perpetually obsessed group of navel gazing bullies lost in the dusty books of dead Russians, taking badly misinterpreted messages from the work at that, (like right wing pastors that can create hate out of the words “love thy neighbor” or worship wealth after reading of camels and needles).

                  We don’t have, nor appear to all0w such misinformed hateful bullies here and so due to far superior leadership, I have zero fear that the same could ever happen to JPR.

                  Understand now my friend?

                  “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

                    

                  • Coldmountaintrail (2453 posts)
                    Profile photo of Coldmountaintrail

                    45. its what i read from this

                    “JPR is far superior, had it gone as originally discussed by Tin, Mike and myself however it may have become a sister site rather than an ode to Stalin.”

                    depends on what the referent to ‘it’ is supposed to be

                    i don’t think the other place was ever in any danger of becoming an ode to stalin either…if that’s what you meant.

                    ok, now i’ve read the whole thread and i guess you weren’t referring to sv either.

                    never mind.

                    • Dragonfli (1285 posts)
                      Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

                      46. Tin is a shortened version of the screen name of the owner of a different site,

                      Mike was not a screen name, but would be known for who he was by someone there at the beginning, one that was an infiltrator IMHO. The names alone should have tipped you off that I wasn’t talking about here, for one, Mary is nothing like Tin, Jackpine could shit a better man than mike after eating poisoned food, and I had nothing to do with forming this site but was merely invited to post here by one of the moderators during JPR 1.0 days when attempting to flee the insanity and group think at SV where I had posted for 14 years.

                      I edited the above a bit to further explain what I felt made sense in context, but which apparently was not as clear as I had thought..

                      “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

                        

                      • Coldmountaintrail (2453 posts)
                        Profile photo of Coldmountaintrail

                        47. I'm not an insider here or at sv so i don't know the inside baseball context

                        I read your post and followed the grammar and the referent was unclear, that’s all

    • ThinkingANew (1314 posts)
      Profile photo of ThinkingANew

      37. A little strong but I agree with his observation about SOME of Bernie's

      statements on foreign policy and Russia.

      I assumed though it is ignorance: That Bernie may be not be listening to those trying to tell him there is more going on. He is 20 years behind on what is really going on with our deep state.

      I would still vote for him again in a minute: But my hope would be that he would get more acquainted with what the deep state is really doing “on the job”.

      "(modern) newspapers publish nothing more than “weaponized text"" “When you read a newspaper article, you are reading weaponized text that is designed to affect a person just like you." Julian Assange  
    • Yanath (637 posts)
      Profile photo of Yanath

      38. Excellent points, regarding Iran and N. Korea.

      The US has no moral or legal imperative to coerce or force sovereign countries to its will. The NPT itself, forbids any signatory or group of signatories forcing agreements beyond the aegis of the NPT on other members.

    • Enthusiast (9785 posts)
      Profile photo of Enthusiast Donor

      40. So it was simply more misinformation. Like we don't get enough.

      "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
    • DoctorJ (586 posts)
      Profile photo of DoctorJ Donor

      41. Ford is usually very circumspect, but he's reading too much into one quote

      Yes, Churchill was very conservative, but quoting him once does not make someone a fascist.  And stating a desire to have everyone live safely and peacefully does not in any way, shape, or form imply that one wants “white people to subjugate black people” everywhere.  This is preposterous.  This is why the sjw are driving me away from the professional liberal class.  Anything that anyone says gets turned into a racist rant in there eyes.

      Conservatives are fond of telling us what a wonderful, happy, prosperous nation this is. The only thing that matches their love of country is the remarkable indifference they show toward the people who live in it. - Michael Parenti
      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        48. That is my observation as well. I am most heartily sick of it.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
      • Babel 17 (3139 posts)
        Profile photo of Babel 17 Donor

        51. Yes. And a liberal is smart to quote a conservative so as to make a point

        If  you can claim “even Reagan said …”, then by all means do so. The words of St. Ronnie can carry weight with his ardent fans.

        Speaking of which, even Bush Sr. thought the NRA had gotten too extreme in its stance on assault weapons, and cancelled his membership. Don’t hate me for mentioning that, Mr. Ford! :)

        https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
    • Babel 17 (3139 posts)
      Profile photo of Babel 17 Donor

      50. Don't quote any leaders from the past

      They all have blood on their hands and never said anything worth repeating. ;)

      Nice speech … until you remember this spoiled young jerk took an army to slaughter thousands because he thought he hadn’t received his rightful inheritance. Being King of England wasn’t enough, he wanted his lands in France.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_V_of_England#1415_campaign

      The list is endless.

      https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
      • Ohio Barbarian (4742 posts)
        Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

        52. Priceless. Thanks.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.