Home Main Forums General Discussion Bill Clinton: A RECKONING

  • Segami (5530 posts)
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    Bill Clinton: A RECKONING

     

    Bill Clinton: A RECKONING

    Feminists saved the 42nd president of the United States in the 1990s. They were on the wrong side of history; is it finally time to make things right?

     

    -snip-

     

    Yet let us not forget the sex crimes of which the younger, stronger Bill Clinton was very credibly accused in the 1990s. Juanita Broaddrick reported that when she was a volunteer on one of his gubernatorial campaigns, she had arranged to meet him in a hotel coffee shop. At the last minute, he had changed the location to her room in the hotel, where she says he very violently raped her. She said she fought against Clinton throughout a rape that left her bloodied. At a different Arkansas hotel, he caught sight of a minor state employee named Paula Jones, and, Jones says, he sent a couple of state troopers to invite her to his suite, where he exposed his penis to her and told her to kiss it. Kathleen Willey said that she met him in the Oval Office for personal and professional advice and that he groped her, rubbed his erect penis on her, and pushed her hand to his crotch.

     

    It was a pattern of behavior; it included an alleged violent assault; the women involved had far more credible evidence than many of the most notorious accusations that have come to light in the past five weeks. But Clinton was not left to the swift and pitiless justice that today’s accused men have experienced. Rather, he was rescued by a surprising force: machine feminism. The movement had by then ossified into a partisan operation and it was willing—eager—to let this friend of the sisterhood enjoy a little droit de seigneur. The notorious 1998 New York Times op-ed by Gloria Steinem must surely stand as one of the most regretted public actions of her life. It slut-shamed, victim-blamed, and age-shamed; it urged compassion for and gratitude to the man the women accused. Moreover (never write an op-ed in a hurry; you’ll accidentally say what you really believe), it characterized contemporary feminism as a weaponized auxiliary of the Democratic Party.

     

    SCRIBD: THE NEW YORK TIMES – Feminists and the Clinton Question

     

    Called “Feminists and the Clinton Question,” it was written in March of 1998, when Paula Jones’s harassment claim was working its way through court. It was printed seven days after Kathleen Willey’s blockbuster 60 Minutes interview with Ed Bradley. If all the various allegations were true, wrote Steinem, Bill Clinton was “a candidate for sex addiction therapy.” To her mind, the most “credible” accusations were those of Willey, whom she noted was “old enough to be Monica Lewinsky’s mother.” And then she wrote the fatal sentences that invalidated the new understanding of workplace sexual harassment as a moral and legal wrong: “Even if the allegations are true, the President is not guilty of sexual harassment. He is accused of having made a gross, dumb, and reckless pass at a supporter during a low point in her life. She pushed him away, she said, and it never happened again. In other words, President Clinton took ‘no’ for an answer.”

     

    Steinem said the same was true of Paula Jones. These were not crimes; they were “passes.” Broaddrick was left out by Steinem, who revealed herself as a combination John and Bobby Kennedy of the feminist movement: the fair-haired girl and the bareknuckle fixer. The widespread liberal response to the sex crime accusations against Bill Clinton found their natural consequence 20 years later in the behavior of Harvey Weinstein: Stay loudly and publicly and extravagantly on the side of signal leftist causes and you can do what you want in the privacy of your offices and hotel rooms. But the mood of the country has changed. We are in a time when old monuments are coming down and when men are losing their careers over things they did to women a long time ago.

     

     

    cont’

    https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/545729/

    Pastiche, Spanishprof27, roguevalley and 30 othersJefferson23, Xyzse, BuySellTrade, PuffGranny, Enthusiast, Elizabeth, ronRonnie, Utopian Leftist, LiberalElite, NJOCK, WillyT, Stumpy Pete, MyDogsBFF, Betty Karlson, kath, Flying Squirrel, xynthee, Babel 17, Doremus Jessup, Piperay, Stockholmer, Ichingcarpenter, Pam, nevereVereven, graycat, tk2kewl, Baba OhReally, area woman, djean111, Mabus like this

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  • 3 days ago #12
    • Segami (5530 posts)
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      1. “….The Democratic Party needs to make its own reckoning….

      “…… of the way it protected Bill Clinton. The party needs to come to terms with the fact that it was so enraptured by their brilliant, Big Dog president and his stunning string of progressive accomplishments that it abandoned some of its central principles. The party was on the wrong side of history and there are consequences for that. Yet expedience is not the only reason to make this public accounting. If it is possible for politics and moral behavior to coexist, then this grave wrong needs to be acknowledged. If Weinstein and Mark Halperin and Louis C.K. and all the rest can be held accountable, so can our former president and so can his party, which so many Americans so desperately need to rise again…..”

      • tk2kewl (1803 posts)
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        3. "stunning string of progressive accomplishments"

        Pfft

        • Segami (5530 posts)
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          4. Pfffft!….yea, I coughed when I read that…..

          :facepalm:

        • Stockholmer (2183 posts)
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          9. progressively more fucked up maybe

          Little things like helping drive the repeal of Glass-Steagall and then working with the Repug thugs like Phil Gramm to ram through the horrific Commodity Futures Modernisation Act of 2000 that were MASSIVE causational inflection points that lead directly to the global financial crisis of 2007-9.

           

          FUCK BILL

          • CalGoldenBear (985 posts)
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            11. Bingo! EOM

          • KenTanker0us (124 posts)
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            13. Sadly must agree…

            I voted for that guy twice…. ignorance is bliss, I guess.

            I used to be Navarth at DU. I left DU when it became polluted with Hillary pushers. The party bosses fucked us, and Bernie, just like they did with Henry Wallace in 1944.
            • CalGoldenBear (985 posts)
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              15. Heck, I voted twice for Bubba AND twice for Obama.

              • Utopian Leftist (465 posts)
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                17. Me too.

                I attended Bubba’s inauguration on the Mall in  1993.

                I’m not proud of it.

                Had I lived in a swing state? 2016? Well, I like to think I’d have been struck by lightning on my way to the poll. I really do. But I have to be honest, I might have even voted for {gasp} Hellary!

                Until . . . I discovered Her stole the primary from Bernie. That was my last straw.

                No more corporatist votes for me. Ever. No more votes for war, pollution, oligarchy, plutocracy or other lesser evil. That is a game that only the elite few will ever win. And I don’t even like game-playing in my voting booth.

                The beatdown Hillary was handed had nothing to do with Bernie Bros, Russia, a VRWC, Comey, the FBI, the media, sexism, racism or any other ism you can think of. It was a referendum on neoliberalism. It is your legacy, Obama. It’s Clinton fatigue born of endless scandals. It’s war and prison for profit. It’s criminality that dresses itself up like saintliness and looks down its nose at its victims. ~ farleftlib
                • LiberalElite (5555 posts)
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                  19. So did I. 2x Clinton, 2x Obama and Bubba's

                  Inaugural shindig on a very muddy National Mall. I probably still have the T-shirt.  😳

                  I feel much better since I've given up hope
            • Xyzse (3200 posts)
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              26. Well, was too young to vote Bubba(not for) but voted Obama twice.

              Just because I deemed him the one who would deal the less damage.

              Perhaps I was wrong.

          • Enthusiast (10167 posts)
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            23. Huge plus one! And NAFTA and the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

            "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
            • CalGoldenBear (985 posts)
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              29. Slick Willie's dubious legacy includes setting the stage for the Great

              Financial Meltdown of 2008, by signing the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

              • Enthusiast (10167 posts)
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                30. No question about it. Then Obama bailed out and rewarded

                the perpetrators.

                With Democrats like Clinton and Obama who needs Republicans?

                "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
                • MrMickeysMom (1743 posts)
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                  32. That is ONE HELL OF A GOOD VIDEO, Enthusiast !

                  It should be played often. Did that come from the 90’s archives of C-SPAN?

                  Hell no...I'm not giving up...     cat-gif-238.gif giphy.gif
                  • Enthusiast (10167 posts)
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                    34. It came from somewhere. Apparently Dorgan thought

                    the legislation was so dangerous that he should address the legislators. Wish they had listened to him instead of Phil Gramm.

                    "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
      • LiberalElite (5555 posts)
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        18. Huh? Progressive accomplishments? Him?

        WHAT!!????!🙄

        I feel much better since I've given up hope
    • MistaP (6444 posts)
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      2. if the response to the world's most powerful man seducing an intern

      one year past drinking age is “she was asking for it,” they’re not feminists, they’re the brown spot where the rot began in the academic departments–no different than the people who thought the Duke or UVA cases only proved how hard it was to bring a rape case!

      conclusively proving me wrong only shows that I was right all along

      lock ’em up anyway: they’ll probably do something as bad or worse in the future

      they still are men, after all

      http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
      • MistaP (6444 posts)
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        6. also it contributes to liberals' image as hypocrites

        even if the Dems were dour gun-grabbing coal-mine-closing affirmative-action third-trimester-aborting het-sex-skeptical white-flag surrender monkeys as they were depicted in the 90s, they still wouldn’t be galling two-faced politicians who emotionally blackmailed others into covering for them: just look at how many white rural conservatives went for the socialist feminist Civil-Rights-marching dove with a D+ from the NRA

        any reactionary can point to the Dems’ actions as debunking anything a liberal says: “Women need to be ‘believed’? The party’s funded by decades-long predators and defines how good a lib you are by how many people you unfriended in the 90s for saying Bill Clinton committed sexual assault! Save the whales? You voted for Frackarella! We’re in a class war? Were you told that by the megastation created by the Telecom Act and bought with money from sending our jobs to China, or by the Senator caught apologizing to the banksters who robbed my granny? We hate the elderly? Your Messiah’s Catfood Commission called them ‘greedy geezers’! We vote against our economic interest? Did you mean NAFTA or the TPP?”

        you can’t really push white guilt after Ricky Ray Rector or the campaign that started at Stone Mountain, or making fun of fundies for Iraq and then vote for its backers

        the Clintons definitely tarred the party with this, and were permitted to dominate the party to the point where it cheated someone 15 points ahead for a vacuous pol who was neck-and-neck: but it goes beyond them, and most all of these slams apply to Obama/Edwards/Kerry, even Ted Kennedy or Warren

        http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
        • Coldmountaintrail (3003 posts)
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          20. sure does – feminism out of one side of the mouth/except for…

          from the other

          • MistaP (6444 posts)
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            22. and that's just more evidence of how we seem to be stuck in the 90s

            our politics is still the Pelosis vs. the Gingriches (Gingrichii?), the “militants” are still saying all men are walking wieners so paradoxically some can be shielded from accountability if it’d benefit the GOP, our economics is still Pinochet vs. Thatcher

            far vaster changes happened over 1957-67, or 1972-79–feh! what did the 90s give us that got us stuck in them for 25 years? 9/11? the giddiness of the 2008 win?

            Carter, Gore, and Brazile seem like travelers from some alternate political universe simply for razzing Hillary–something that’s Just Not Done even though 70% of the country’s doing so

            http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
            • Coldmountaintrail (3003 posts)
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              25. stuck in the 90s, agreed. it seems a singularly characterless decade in

              retrospect.  even the 80s have a kind of shape (reaganism) but the 90s — just blah.  nothing to hang your hat on there.

              • Stockholmer (2183 posts)
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                28. 90's had some wicked techno and Garage!

                 

      • Jefferson23 (6989 posts)
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        27. +10. I was too young then to be aware yet everything you read about it

        can turn your stomach. PHONY claims of feminism to protect a fucking sleaze ball, Bill Clinton.

    • Segami (5530 posts)
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      5. Self-anointed feminist Queen Hillary defends her predator husband…..

       

      Hillary Clinton Threatens Bill Clinton’s Accusers on Today Show [FLASHBACK]

       

    • roguevalley (2104 posts)
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      7. and you can see why Gloria Steinem is a worthless waste of space and the most

      fake feminist in the history of the world. Fuck her. Regular women advanced women, not big city douches like her.

      Be love. Be light. Fear is the only darkness. Love is the only light.
      • Coldmountaintrail (3003 posts)
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        21. really. what did she actually DO to emerge the most well-known

        ‘feminist’ in the US?

        Nothing, so far as I can tell.  Just connections (and some less than savory)

    • nevereVereven (3360 posts)
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      8. Heartily recommended.

      A hologram of a magnifying glass will also function as a magnifying glass, but a hologram of Sherlock Holmes won't solve anything.  
    • BillZBubb (2804 posts)
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      10. Steinem regrets nothing. She's just another neoliberal propagandist.

      Anyone who sees either Clinton as a feminist is no feminist.

      DemExit! Don't give the Democrats a dime. Don't identify as a Democrat. Drop Democratic identification below 20%. Only then will they support true progressive policy. Until then, corporate money rules.
    • Betty Karlson (3974 posts)
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      12. Steinem again.

      Let’s just call her what she has become: an enabling hypocrite.

      "Someone hacks the DNC allowing all of America to see how the DNC operates as one of the most corrupt political machines in national history. Ergo, Hillary Clinton should be installed as President by judicial fiat. And if you do not agree to this scheme you deserve to be brought up on charges of treason because fascism." - NUGrrl, december 2016 “Once a person has been determined to be an UNTRUSTWORTHY LIAR, their pretend stances on important issues are simply not relevant to rational discussion.” – Ida Briggs, September 2016
    • Peace Patriot (2610 posts)
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      14. "feminism as a weaponized auxiliary of the Democratic Party"-great line. However

      …do beware of The Atlantic, brothers and sisters.  This is an insider Deep State publication, and its publication of this article should be viewed with suspicion.  It is adding to my suspicions that this sexual harassment publicity wave – which shares some characteristics with the Salem Witch Trial phenomenon, i.e., an hysterical witch hunt – is intended as a DISTRACTION.  Its promotion by the vile Corporate Media should itself gives us pause.  Its publication in The Atlantic…well, The Atlantic is the go-to publication for sussing out Deep State intentions and understanding DS internal wars (but you have to do a bit of reading between the lines).

      A really clever distraction gloms onto a righteous cause – a credible cause, a good cause, like this one – and runs wild with it to wipe out unwanted headlines and news stories.  There are some very unwanted headlines, of late – unwanted by our Overlords.  These include the Russian-Syrian victories against the CIA funded/weaponized jihadists in Syria, the Pentagon-CIA war plot against Russia, the dismantling of the federal regulatory system, the rapid-paced grand finale to the Grand Theft that has been perpetrated against the American people, the Chinese-led international movement against the dollar and probably the events in Saudi Arabia (“night of the long knives,” greater ME war prep), the U.S.-backed slaughter in Yemen and who knows what else?  Lot of bad shit going down.  Climate catastrophe in progress – hysteria of the Oil Powers.

      So, now we’re going to “get” Bill Clinton and Harvey Weinstein?  Think about the timing.

      And to my sister leftists and all true feminists, I want to say:  Are they using us AGAIN?  Is this just more of the same?  Is this going to boost your miserable wages or provide you with health care?  Is THIS outburst of feminism in the vile Corporate Media “a weaponized auxiliary” of the Overlords behind the Democratic and Republican Parties who are robbing us six ways to Sunday and destroying our democracy and slaughtering people and creating social chaos in dozens of other countries?

      Beware, is all I’m saying.  And also ask, what is likely to come of this?  Little or nothing, is the likely outcome.  Little or no justice for the injured women (and some men).  Ruin for the falsely accused (if any).  No change.  And meanwhile our people are lured, by the famous names and the lurid details, away from the catastrophic activities of the billionaire class and their “tools” in government, in politics, in the spy agencies, in the military and in their media.

      I can’t help but feel some satisfaction, as a woman, to see famous male sexual predators called out.  But I also see how that feeling that is derived from my personal identity can be used for ill purposes.  It is similar to how Barack Obama was “sold” to black Americans and to those of us who sympathize with black Americans and strongly support civil rights and human rights.  Meanwhile black Americans are being slain on our streets by the cops, all over the country, in a plague of murders.  What was having a black president worth to those dead Americans and to the cause of civil and human rights?

      One more thought: The Clintons are being dumped by the Deep State. That is obvious.  This Atlantic article is just another kick off the cliff.  Good riddance to them, of course!  But who are they going to foist upon us next?  That is and should be our concern.  And the machinations behind all this should be our concern.

      • CalGoldenBear (985 posts)
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        16. Very well stated food for thought.

      • relgire (27 posts)
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        24. Kicked…

        Needs its own OP. I always enjoy and learn from your posts.

      • Coldmountaintrail (3003 posts)
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        31. I think you're right to be suspicious.

        • Peace Patriot (2610 posts)
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          33. I heard NPR being all over this deliciously vile sex predator story on the radio

          …this afternoon.  U.S. funded genocide in Yemen.  Millions starving there, others starving, sick, in complete misery in Puerto Rico, a devastating earthquake in Iran, parts of Syria in rubble from CIA funded/weaponized jihadists and so much more – and everything I listed above that our Overlords don’t want you to know, and all they can talk about, with zest and relish, is the sex predation of the rich and famous!

          Something’s not right here.  And NPR is always a pointer to what is not right.  Whatever they point to is what you should ignore, and whatever they point away from is where you should look.

          I’m NOT ‘apologizing’ for the biliously rich sexual predators in our midst, or even the poor ones.  But I DO think that we must look with great suspicion at the editorial choices of the vile corporate media – what they dwell upon and when – and be aware of that there are very well-organized, well-funded entities out there who know how to shape those corporate media choices.

          I have a STRONG feeling that we are being “played” by this one.