Buttigieg Rejects Free College

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    • #50882
      N2Doc
      Participant

      Pete Buttigieg, the South Bend, Ind., mayor who has built a national media profile since launching his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, put himself at odds this week with a national movement behind free college.

      Buttigieg, a Harvard University graduate and the son of two University of Notre Dame professors, said in an appearance at Northeastern University Wednesday that he believed in making college “dramatically more affordable” by expanding Pell Grants and incentivizing states to spend more on higher education. But he stopped short of supporting a universal program to address college affordability. In the early days of the campaign, Buttigieg has surged to third place in recent polls of Iowa Democrats and posted impressive fund-raising numbers and crowd sizes as well.

      “Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don’t,” he said. “As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who earn less because they didn’t go to college subsidizing a minority who earn more because they did.”

      Senator Bernie Sanders, who announced in February he would seek the party’s nomination, made free college a central plank of his 2016 Democratic primary campaign. And candidates including Senators Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Kamala Harris and Kirsten Gillibrand have signed on to legislation that would make public college in the U.S. free or debt-free.

      more

      https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/04/05/pete-buttigieg-democratic-candidate-bucks-progressives-free-college?fbclid=IwAR0aPpwraKtCo4n7kjnHtMK1y-xAy-nq5nJSl3PZfvkVi5nVyj-XoS2Ybfo

      So keeping a system where only the wealthy and upper middle classes can afford to go to college is going to be better? And people say this guy is smart?

    • #50884
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator

      He may be smart. He is also my class enemy. Why do I say that?

      I have three adult stepkids, none of whom have gone to college for the simple reason they don’t want to be crushed for life by the student loan debt they’ve seen crush their peers. Buttigieg will do nothing for them except throw them a few incremental, neoliberal scraps, so fuck him.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #50885
      a little weird
      Participant

      Yeah – he seems better than the worst candidates, but he has fallen a lot in my estimation over the last few weeks.  I don’t really know why people are excited about him.

      • #50985
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator

        So they can tell their friends at all the right cocktail parties that they supported a gay man for president?

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

        • #50997
          Utopian Leftist
          Participant

          Hahaha, and not just any gay man: a gay man by the name of Butt-gig. All he needs is for someone to follow him around, making a rimshot after everything he says.

          "All fascism is a result of a failure of the left to provide a viable alternative." ~ Trotsky

          • #52226
            Stockholmer
            Participant

            Disgusting homophobic slur, I would hope this board would be better.

            His name is pronounced buddha-jedge tw, not butt gig, ffs.

            I am just shocked at the profound lack of critical thinking and knee-jerk reactionary thought (he is a 3rd-wayer!, he is a Romney Democrat! <<<< both pure tosh) being tossed out here. Very disheartening and shows a nasty group-think.

            I am taking a break as the scorched-earth Bernie or bust mentality (taken to a level where ALL (only reason Tulsi is not having her turn in the barrel is she poses zero threat electorally) other candidates must be attacked with absolute and non-nuanced simplistic jargon and labels is so not my speed, especially as Sanders himself shows zero proclivity to actually make a move to run as an independent when he inevitably is denied the Dummicrat nomination.

    • #50888
      Two way street
      Participant

      To me he is telling Wall Street not to worry, that if elected, he will make sure that there is no Bernie transaction tax, on their stock market trades.  Bernie proposed to pay for free college by placing a 2 cent tax on each transaction as Wall Street buys and sales many times per second using computers.  It reminds me of a slot machine, once your best buy comes up, you have gone through thousands of trades over microseconds.

      2020 Campaign Season: We the People are in the fight for our lives and livelihoods.

    • #50911
      jwirr
      Participant

      And Bernie is right. When I was growing up all we needed for a good paying job was a high school diploma. Today most good jobs call for at least some college years that lead to a diploma and it is the companies that are calling for this. Times have changed and it is about time the business community that created the new rules start to pay for it.

      Plus, this kid went to the most prestigious private colleges. Good for him – but he is putting his idea into action against public schools. He has no idea what it is like to be the 99% today.

      jwirr

    • #50912
      djean111
      Participant

      “Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don’t,” he said. “As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who earn less because they didn’t go to college subsidizing a minority who earn more because they did.”

      “Americans who have cancer cost more in healthcare than Americans who do not have cancer.  As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who need less health care subsidizing a minority who need more health care because they have cancer”.

      And so on.  Buttigieg should be tased every time he says he is a progressive.  He is not.  He the worst kind of Third Way liar, pretending to be progressive.  Just not as greasily good at it as, say, Obama.

      • #51001
        Enthusiast
        Participant

        He would be tased to death. Buttigieg is a Romney Democrat.

        I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

        Me

    • #50962
      Optimus2
      Participant

      nothing like an entitlement guy saying I got mine but fuck the rest of you.

      Until all are one.

    • #50969
      Mick063
      Participant

      I am against him for one reason and one reason only.

       

      “Because you wish it”.   (you=establishment Dems)

       

      Because you wish it.

      "I welcome their hatred" Franklin D Roosevelt

    • #50987
      ArtfromArk
      Participant

      When I was going to college, my state university was virtually free because Basic/Pell grants covered tuition and work/study covered living expenses.

    • #50999
      Enthusiast
      Participant

      Of course he rejects free college. If you support Buttigieg you could have saved yourself some time and voted for Romney in 2012.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #51249
      FedUp
      Participant

      A Pell Grant would hardly make a dent in tuition at Northeastern University where “Mayor Pete” was speakng. It’s an uber expensive private school where many students undoubtedly emerge many thousands in debt. I love when the Harvard educated son of two college profs pontificates about the unfairness of college grads being subsidized by non college grads. Hey, Pete…Why not remove the big financial roadblock preventing deserving students from enrolling in the first place? Pete is proving to be just another corporate toady. No thanks.

       

       

    • #51272
      David the Gnome
      Participant

      I dropped out of high school at 13.  Technically not legal – but no one was going to drive the thirty+ miles to drag my ass to the nearest high school every day – so I got away with it.  My parents tried many things – alternative education, night classes, even home school – none of it really worked for me, I was a, uhm, particularly difficult kid.  At 17 I went to a local Jobcorps and got a GED – as it seemed the only way to get a job.  I spent the better part of the next twelve years or so in the work force – was unemployed a few times – and jobs in my neck of the woods (especially anything remotely resembling a “good” job) are not easy to find.

      The University I applied to – and was eventually accepted and enrolled at, had a 50 dollar application fee to begin with (not unusual).  I didn’t have it though – so I borrowed it from my parents.  At 29, I wasn’t exactly a traditional student.  To begin with, I had worked in numerous jobs that many Americans feel is beneath their dignity.  This includes everything from shoveling horse manure (and digging through it to “pluck” out the worms for a farmer) to basic gopher work for Carpenters, cleaning out basements, standard (and definitely NON standard yard and house work).  It wasn’t uncommon for me to get home and take a shower – and end up with an inch of dirt in the tub that I’d have to scrub and clean – and then shower again, after.

      I was tired of that, so I decided to give college a shot.  I think I got about 2 grand in pell grants, which to me was a fortune.  Throughout the year though – I could not find work – and work study was not available to me.  I ended up borrowing around 10K or so, all told – my parents had issues of their own – though they helped out where they could.  I had not been in a regular classroom for quite some time.  So, adjusting was not easy at first.

      When I found out what things cost – especially for a few particular Professors who required us to have the newest text books costing hundreds of dollars each, well, I’m sure my jaw dropped quite a few times.  The tuition was not bad – compared to any kind of National average.  This sounds about right:

      University of Maine at Presque Isle tuition and fees is lowered significantly for residents of Maine. For in-state students, tuition and fees is set at $7,885 for the 2017 – 2018 year, 34.3% off the price charged to out-of-state students. Tuition is $6,840 and fees $1,045.”

      It may have been somewhat more, or somewhat less for me, I don’t recall exactly – but in that ballpark.  If it had been just the university I was paying for, I probably would have been alright.  I had no car, so no expenses related to that – but I did have a very small apartment and had to buy my own food and pay my own rent and so on.  The difference in cost between that and staying on campus was not that big.

      Anyhow… the first half of that year I really thrived.  I found out that I wasn’t quite as stupid as I had long believed, got a lot of good feedback from a few Professors and a lot of fellow students.  I made friends, even, uhm, went on a date or three – all of which was extremely unusual for me.  In my neck of the woods, I had been a hermit/social pariah for quite some time.  No one at the university really knew me, it was a fresh start – and I made the most of it… at first.  The second half of the year, the financial problems became rather intense – and after I don’t know how many job applications and several interviews, I still hadn’t found anything (it’s a college town – technically a City, but compared to a real city… well, no) so I made some changes.

      I stopped buying fresh food, if a class required a particularly expensive book, I would not choose it.  I borrowed pretty much everything that I could – and still ended up eating ramen, on those days that I was able to eat anything at all.  Surviving on tap water and really cheap pasta is… unpleasant.

      I got really depressed, started missing classes, becoming more and more anti-social… ultimately I got to see a school counselor a couple of times, some friends and family gave some well meaning advice – but what I needed was money to pay for everything.

      A 3.4 GPA for my first semester wasn’t so bad for a guy who hadn’t been in a class room in over a decade.  At the end of the year though, I had an incomplete – Math – I never could do even basic algebra.  So, based on my grades and such I was not going to be winning any awards (financial or otherwise).  I ended up going back to living with my parents, getting out of the apartment, giving away my furniture (all second-hand stuff, mostly, I gave it to Catholic charities) and as that was some 45 miles away or more and I had no car – I was not going to be getting to classes the following year.

      I figured back then that I’d go back at some point, after I was able to pay down some of the loans.  Went back to work, got some more or less “real” jobs – and still never quite made enough to get ahead or put anything away.  Almost six years later – the initial 10K or so I borrowed is at 15, in default for some time now.  I never had credit to begin with – I did not like checks or credit cards, didn’t trust them, so I paid with cash or a debit card for everything.  Even so, the student loans helped me go from “no credit” to, “Oh my god, that’s terrible” credit.

      My point isn’t so much to just complain about my own story… there are plenty like mine – and plenty that are a lot worse.  Consider though – that the overwhelming majority of us cannot afford college, even if we work full time.  Most college students struggle to get by with a part time job or two, in addition to their classes, homework and whatever else.  If they have to pay other expenses such as food and housing… well…

      It is not exactly news that our drop out rate is pretty high.

      As for other things that made it more difficult in my case – I had become a step father at 17.  A biological father at 18.  I was a young punk with a GED and a give em hell attitude who thought he could conquer the world… at one point.  Eventually, poverty, the stress of finance and trying to tackle a lot more than I was really capable of… well, it broke me in pretty much every way you can imagine.  I spent time in hospitals, crisis centers, even a psych ward all well before I was 20.  My relationship didn’t work out… I think for reasons that had much to do with my youth and poverty.  I believed though, that if I worked hard enough, did enough, I’d earn enough money to support my son, help him get through college some day, have the opportunities I didn’t.

      It just never really worked out that way.  Seems to me, the more intense the labor was, the less the job paid, the fewer benefits it offered (if any – a lot of it was under the table) and if you had to miss a day because you were sick or injured, well, you were easy enough to replace.

      My life has taken many twists and turns – I’m turning 35 on Wednesday, for the last couple of years I’ve been fighting the endless legal battle to get benefits like Medicaid, disability and so on.  I think that… the future will make many more stories like mine – and more that are even worse.  The people who administrate, who manage the system, even most of the admin at various universities… they don’t get it.  They can’t, you see.

      They never spent a 12 hour day digging through horse shit up to their waist.  They never spent 30 hours working for a Chinese restaurant all during one weekend – getting sworn at in Chinese and paid 5.45 an hour for washing dishes, scrubbing toilets, urinals – you name it, if it’s dirty, it’s the dish washer’s job.  They never had to spend endless hours at a call center trying to sell very annoyed people “accidental death and dismemberment insurance”.  They never had to go without healthcare, a great many of them never had to go to public school.  They have never known real hunger – and could not comprehend the stress of those that have.

      As such…

      As such, people like Buttigieg are not the sort of people we want making decisions at the National level.  Not in regards to education, finance, or anything else, really.  His character is quite beside the point, so is his intellect and/or overall political talent.  The point is this: He cannot understand.  He cannot comprehend what life is like for millions of us.

      As such, he is unfit to govern us.  Of course… so are the overwhelming majority of our politicians.  It is class warfare – and as OB pointed out – people like Buttigieg are my class enemies, too.  It’s not about free stuff, it never was.  It’s about having a chance, in a place where the odds are very much against those of us who are not of wealth and privilege.  I stopped believing in silly shit like the American dream a long time ago – because I worked in America.  I stopped expecting anyone to save my ass or bail me out years ago – because I live in America.  I have friends and family who love me and help as they can – and I return the favor.  Perhaps that is the best we can realistically hope for.

      • #51287
        Dudester
        Participant

        Wow. I thought I had it bad when I didn’t finish college. You are just 8 years younger than me. I have a disability and on SSDI and work part time. Money isnt enough for where I live so I get you. I have a desire to finish my degree. It has been 20 years since I left college to join the tech boom which quickly went bust. Since then I’ve been working for my dad who has since passed away. To keep my SSDI income I couldn’t go over a certain threshold of dollars I earn a month. But recently I realized if I just get a full time job it would just maybe triple my money. I never finished college but I do have certifications that tech companies look for. But my disability makes it a barrier and I am starting to look into hourly jobs without bennies but do not want to risk it unless I secure the job I want.

      • #52150
        incognito
        Participant

        Happy Birthday, David! 🎂 May your day be filled with peace ☮️ and happiness.

        The “American Dream” no longer exists. I think most Americans see that sham for what it is…”The American Nightmare.” The Oligarchs pulled back the curtain in 2016 to reveal the truth of what reality really is…”It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.” (George Carlin)

        The deck has been deliberately stacked against us and they can no longer sustain the sham. It’s all too big. All the shit they’ve done to benefit themselves at our expense has ballooned to an unsustainable level. They couldn’t keep all the lies and corruption under wraps anymore. That’s what happens when you lie. Eventually, the truth will come out.

        Enjoy your birthday!

         

         

         

      • #52160
        ArtfromArk
        Participant

        Holely sheet! When I was a student at the University of Arkansas, almost 40  years ago, in-state tuition was only $300 per semester! I shared a garage apartment with another student for $100/month.

    • #51292
      cal22
      Participant

      In Continental Europe there are no private universities,  They are all state universities and are mostly free of charge.  Our private university system is a legacy we have received from the English.  Oxford and Cambridge are private.  Initially they were only for the titled nobility.  Later they allowed commoners who could afford the fees.  Today they even grant scholarships.  In our present case, what is wrong with having free state universities?  The private ones can still continue as usual.  New York City College used to be free.  I don’t know about now.

       

      none yet

      • #52153
        Stockholmer
        Participant

        No private universities in Europe? LOLOLOLOL

         

        just some in Germany

        Bard College Berlin
        CODE University of Applied Sciences
        Deutsche Journalistenschule
        EBC Hochschule
        FOM University of Applied Sciences, Economics and Management
        Friedensau Adventist University
        GISMA Business School
        Hertie School of Governance
        International Psychoanalytic University Berlin
        Munich Business School
        Munich University of Applied Languages
        Natural Science and Academy Isny
        SRH Hochschule Berlin
        Steinbeis-Hochschule Berlin
        Steinbeis Business Academy
        University of Applied Sciences Europe
        Gustav Siewerth Academy
        WHU – Otto Beisheim School of Management
        Witten/Herdecke University

        State-accredited private Universities of Applied Sciences (Fachhochschule) in Germany

        FOM College
        IUBH International College
        Hamburger Fern-Hochschule
        College Fresenius
        German University for Prevention and Health Management
        European Fernhochschule Hamburg
        Rheinische Fachschule Koln
        Wilhelm Buchner University
        Diploma College
        AKAD University
        Fachholchschule des Mittelstands (FHM)
        SRH Fernhochschule
        SRH University of Applied Sciences Heidelberg
        MSH Medical School Hamburg
        International School of Management
        PFH Private University of Gottingen
        Macromedia College
        University of Applied Management FH
        University of Applied Sciences Europe
        APOLLON College of Health Economics
        Technical College Geroge Agricola
        IST College of Management
        North Academy – College of Economics
        University of Applied Sciences FHDW
        European University of Applied Sciences (EU | FH)
        HMKW Hochschule fur Medien, Kommunikation und Wirtschaft
        Cologne Business School
        MSB Medical School Berlin – University of Health and Medicine
        Fliedner University of Applied Sciences Dusseldorf
        University of Applied Sciences Wedel
        AMD Academy Fashion & Design – Design Department of the Hochschule Fresenius
        German University of Health & Sports
        EBZ Business School
        Municipal School of Administration in Lower Saxony
        Media Design College
        BBW College
        Provadis School of International Management and Technology
        SRH College of Health
        College 21
        Hamburg School of Business Administration
        BSO Business School of Berlin University of Management
        SRH Hochschule Berlin
        College of the Savings Banks Finance Group
        EBC College
        University of Diakonie
        Northern Business School – College of Management and Security
        SRH University of Applied Sciences Hamm
        SRH College of Popular Arts
        IB College
        Leibniz University of Applied Sciences
        Munich Business School
        Karlshochschule International University
        Private University of Economics and Technology phwt
        University of Applied Sciences Dresden
        Akkon University of Human Sciences
        Accadis Hochschule Bad Homburg
        College of Business, Technology and Culture
        University of Weserbergland
        College of Business Management (HdWM)
        University of Applied Languages – University of Languages & Interpreters Insitute Munich eV
        College Dopfer
        BSP Business School Berlin – Campus Hamburg
        University of Applied Sciences Hannover
        VWA University for extra-occupational study
        DEKRA University of Applied Sciences
        YMCA University
        College of Bavarian Business
        Design Academy Berlin – SRH College of Communication and Design
        College of German Social Accident Insurance
        European Management School
        University of Applied Sciences for Sport and Management Potsdam
        Brand Academy – College of Design and Communication
        German Graduate School of Management and Law Heilbronn
        SRH University of Applied Sciences Heidelberg, Campus Calw
        College of Communication and Design
        Merz Academy – College of Design, Art and Media
        Allensbach University of Konstanz
        Vitruvius University of Leipzig
        University of Applied Sciences Clara Hoffbauer Potsdam
        Berlin International University of Applied Sciences
        Media Academy – University of Stuttgart
        Touro College Berlin
        Wilhelm Lohe University of Applied Sciences
        College of Applied Pedagogy
        Quadriga University of Applied Sciences Berlin
        NTA College Isny
        Cusanus College
        CODE University of Applied Sciences
        University of Health-oriented Sciences Rhein-Neckar
        oncampus GmbH
        Hamburg Media School
        Eufom business School

    • #52154
      David the Gnome
      Participant

      @dudester

      Not sure how working might effect your SSDI.  In my case, with SSI, I can earn up to 80 bucks a month before it starts cutting my benefits.  80…

      They tell you (they being the government/and social security admin) that SSI “isnt meant to be your only income”.  However, to get it, you cannot have as much as 2k in overall assets.  Also – you have to prove, often to a judge, that you are incapable of working.

      For the first several months pay was like 540 per month or something like that.  The state pretty quickly sent me an email telling me my food stamps (EBT/SNAP)benefits were being cut from 190 a month to 89.

      April 1st, I got my first “full payment” (as I pay rent, household expenses, etc.) Of 771.  Another 80 might help a bit – but my lawyer (who stopped returning my.calls once he got paid) and sone others have advised me not to work, even if I can – as it would complicate things.

      I could shovel a couple roofs in the winter, or do a couple of yards in warmer months, to make an extra 80, perhaps at some point I will…

      I think they are going to eliminate my food stamp benefits completely.

      I am fortunate – I have family that will help me if things get really desperate.  I have low expenses – and live with my fiance who is much more financially intelligent than I am.

      I wonder though, how those without that help manage.  771, on your own… is not enough.  It may buy your food, pay your car payment and some gas – but unless you live in your car..

      What a mess.  If I may offer a little advice – be careful about going back to work.  I dont know all the details regarding SSDI and dont know anything about your case – but if it is at all similar to SSI in regards to means testing and such – they will cut you off as soon as it is legal to do so.

      The machine has no heart – and neither do most of those who make social security legislation these days.

    • #52156
      David the Gnome
      Participant

      @incognito

      Thanks!  35… feels strange.  Today, I feel more like I’m still 19 or so.  Other days, not a day over 160.  I think I am quoting good old George when I say “it’s called the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it!”

      Looking forward to cake. 🙂

       

    • #52180
      David the Gnome
      Participant

      @artfromark

      A lot of us have, my friend.  Too many.  Far too damn many.  We’ve got to keep holding on, somehow – but our day, I believe, is coming.  A political revolution in the name of economic justice, greater human decency – and so much else.  We will see.  But, I think the march of the “unwashed masses” is coming.  Things will get better – because they have to.  This government is a bloated, grotesque monster that can no longer support it’s own weight – and that is not due to us, the people.  It’s military spending, it’s lobbying, it’s subsidies for corporations, bailouts, wars, crimes against humanity and outright theft.  Hundreds of billions – even trillions of dollars.  The money for all those things we speak and/or dream of is there.  It’s just held in the tight grip of these wankers who sit on it – most of whom didn’t do a damn thing to earn it.  We won’t need pitch forks and torches – just the truth.

      Our time is coming.  I’m honored to be here with you.

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