Chomsky jumps the shark – "Trump is the worst criminal in history, undeniably"

Homepage | Forums | Main Forums | General Discussion | Chomsky jumps the shark – "Trump is the worst criminal in history, undeniably"

Viewing 17 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #329336
      N2Doc
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 7,508
      NOAM CHOMSKY

      In an interview, Noam Chomsky talks about the “absolutely unprecedented scope and scale” of the protests against the police murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, the importance of Lula’s presidency in Brazil, and why Donald Trump is “the worst criminal in human history.”

      https://jacobinmag.com/2020/06/noam-chomsky-donald-trump-coronavirus-george-floyd-protests

      Noam knows better than this. He makes himself a sideshow with this sort of rhetoric. I hate Trump, but there are far greater monsters out there in recorded history…

    • #329341
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,589

      What rot. Even Jeff Bezos and Jamie Dimon are worse criminals than he. Chomsky’s losing it.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #329347
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,647

      He’s not even close to the last republican president! TDS is a powerful thing.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #329370
      MikeW285
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 242

      No Noam- that would be Hitler.  Sorry, I know rump bashing is the rage, but nope.

    • #329371
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,335

      I don’t know if it was “Manufacturing Consent” or his preference for solidly liberal social and fiscal policies during the rightward turn of the United States beginning with Reagan, but he was always dismissed as sort of the stereotypical kooky professor in an ivory tower who didn’t live in the real world (someone who wrote crazy stuff like homeless people need homes and poor people need food) and wouldn’t play along in order to get along.

      That changed in the recent past, probably about the time Obama won his first term, against the worst Democratic primary challenger in herstory and against John McCain/Winky Wink.  His liberalism didn’t change, but rather, left-wing voices in internet media (mostly) used him as an authoritative source for many of these ‘new’ ideas like student loan forgiveness or downsizing the military – i.e., not new ideas but rather ideas which he and Bernie and others had been talking about for decades but hadn’t been able to get those messages out widely.

      And I think he must now be enjoying the limelight a bit too much, because in his endorsement of Joe Biden or these over-the-top criticisms of Donald Trump I sense some kind of compromise with the Establishment, that somehow, someone has been able to get him to pipe down, ‘if you give us this, we’ll give you that’, sort of thing.  Who knows, just speculation, but I agree that no Trump is not anywhere close to being the worst criminal in history, and polemics aren’t useful at this point.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #329409
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,589

        @closeupready Maybe not for money, not directly, anyway, but it would be a good way to sell a book. Or it could be just for status and acceptance by the academic elite, much like it was more important for Bernie not to be seen as another Ralph Nader than it was for him to fight for his own principles.

        I have far more respect for Ralph Nader than Noam Chomsky right now.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

        • #329413
          closeupready
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,335

          No objective way to defend that claim.  Sorry.  I’ve always admired him and his work (and lol for a geek like me, his studies on semantics), but I agree he sounds like someone who is losing his mind, making these kinds of remarks.

          What is the end game?  Where does he see a Biden presidency going?  Is he happy with the crap the Democratic Party has been up to over the last 30 years?  Seriously.  Does he think voting for the left branch of the Uniparty is a viable path for reform?

          Just crazy talk, IMO.

          The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #329672
          Cold Mountain Trail
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 8,806

          Chomsky’s 91.  His kids are grown, his first wife is dead, his second wife is 57, Brazilian, & has her own career.

          Chomsky’s own legacy is already secure, he’s a giant in his field (linguistics, specifically syntax/ generative/transformational grammar, not semantics) & I imagine his finances are secure too.

          For what would he ‘sell out’ so late in the game?  He’s got money, security, the recognition & respect of his peers (no idea what you even mean by the ‘academic elite’.  He redefined the whole field and everyone in it knows that, even his strongest critics.)

          He doesn’t need to sell any more books, he never got rich off his books and he’s not going to get more famous if he writes another one.  He can walk in to any university and get a gig if he cares to.

          He says in the article why he thinks trump is the worst criminal in history:

          “This sounds strong, but it’s true: Trump is the worst criminal in history, undeniably. There has never been a figure in political history who was so passionately dedicated to destroying the projects for organized human life on earth in the near future….”

          and he goes on to explain why in the next 6 or 7 paragraphs.

          It’s a debatable claim but a serious one & no indication he’s ‘losing it’.

    • #329378
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,199

      Trump is possibly the best president of the century.

      Look at his competition – W, stole 2 elections and started a war that killed as many as a million people, and is still making us pay today. And Obama. The truth about Obama hasn’t come out yet (it won’t for years, and this is not unusual) but if his misdeeds come to roost on us in the worst way he could easily be the worst head of state since Vidkun Quisling. Trump is probably only the second worst, but which one of these can qualify as the best? The best interpretation of Obama still ranks him near the bottom. We’re talking Nero, Calligula and Carricalla here.

    • #329403
      incognito
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,830

      dude.

      Very disappointing.

      He does have another choice… the Green Party.

    • #329415
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,600

      Fonzie was still in his teens, 21 tops, when he first jumped the shark.

    • #329416
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,685

      But, Trump is a still in a work in progress.   He wants the idiots to give him 4 more years to perfect his grandeur.   He’s still get the knack of walking, drinking water, and basic posture.   But, he does hold the honor of Most Trophy Wives,  Most Disgusting Children, and Master of Vulgarity.

      v

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #329433
      PolecatHollerer
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,093

      …this week.

      Of course, it’s only Tuesday.

      If you give a man enough rope, it will be six inches too short. This is not the nature of rope- it is the nature of man.

    • #329474
      Yanath
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,342

      But no one with any real influence is committed to a serious effort at mitigating the ecological crisis. Trump is just brutishly stupid, and we have a nasty, pathological political culture that allows people like him to ascend to power.

    • #329481
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,847

      I do see Biden like Clinton as a big game changer, as a matter of fact, Biden will be an empty suit who has a track record any Tea Party Republican would love to stand on. God only knows who or what they would say and do in his name. Talk about no accountability, it would be insane.

      Trump is such a dick he hires an asshole like John Bolton whose first solution to any problem is a war. While Trump is speaking to Chinese Leader Xi Jinping at a G20 conference, Bolton has a CFO of a major corporation arrested in Canada on some trumped-up charges of breaking Iranian sanctions. Then Trump finds out about this latter and leaves the conference in a haste. The Trump administration is such a joke it continuous material for late night talk show host.

      This is who we have a choice between.

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

    • #329490
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,040

      All around the world, countries are trying to do something about it. But there is one country which is led by a president who wants to escalate the crisis, to race toward the abyss, to maximize the use of fossil fuels, including the most dangerous of them, and to dismantle the regulatory apparatus that limits their impact. There is no crime like this in human history. Nothing. This is a unique individual. And it’s not as if he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Of course he does. It’s as if he doesn’t care. If he can pour more profits into his pockets and the pockets of his rich constituency tomorrow, who cares if the world disappears in a couple of generations?

      Trump is dismantling the entire arms-control regime, greatly increasing the risk of destruction, virtually inviting enemies to develop weapons to destroy us that we [won’t be able to] stop.

      Trump is taking the worst aspects of capitalism, particularly the neoliberal version of capitalism, and amplifying them. … But a large part of the problem is pre-Trump.

      “Take, say, the Bernie Sanders campaign. I get letters all the time or see things posted saying, “We tried, we lost, it’s over, so I’m getting out.” That’s not what happened. What happened was a tremendous success, an unparalleled success. Nothing like this has happened in US political history — actually, almost ever, since the real populist movement, the radical farmers’ movement, was crushed by force. The spectrum of discussion has been substantially shifted. Things that were not on the agenda not long ago are front and center: universal health care, called for and amplified by the pandemic disaster; a Green New Deal, the result of serious activism by a small group of young people who occupied congressional offices; and the background was the Sanders success, and of young members of Congress who swept into power to support them.

      Of course, Trump makes not pretense of believing in nor doing anything about global warming which has the potential to kill billions – long after he and most of us are long gone.

      They are called 'human' rights not "if politicians do not feel threatened" rights. Many politicians see national sovereignty/security as more important because they protect their power and wealth. Human rights often do just the opposite.

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not resolved with more national sovereignty.

      • #329492
        N2Doc
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 7,508

        His predecessor used the state department to push fracking around the world. He made the US the biggest hydrocarbon producer in the world. Trump didn’t. Obama was worse because he used his pretty words to cover for his environmental crimes.

        • #329629
          peacecorps
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,040

          And environmentalists would make the opposite choice.

          They are called 'human' rights not "if politicians do not feel threatened" rights. Many politicians see national sovereignty/security as more important because they protect their power and wealth. Human rights often do just the opposite.

          National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not resolved with more national sovereignty.

          • #329661
            Earthartist
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 774

            Trump talks a big line but he is more inclined to cause damage to any industry he supports, companies like stability Trump does not bring that to anything he touches. They would prefer Biden who will quietly give them all they want with out announcing it to the people!

            Earthartist

    • #329502
      ravensong
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,137

      grows proportionately greater in severity, relative to the degree of Trump’s decline in the polls.

      Poor, poor impeached Donald is a cruel, vicious, demented, inhumane, misanthropic psychopath that is focused on destroying as much life on earth as he possibly can.  Whether or not he is the worst criminal in history remains to be seen, but all this panties in a wad clutching of the pearls defending of the orange menace is sad.

      Trump will not be re-elected simply because he sucks beyond belief in every way possible, and most of the people on the planet see him for what he is and despise him.  Geez, get over it.

      Trump is soooo over.  Maybe better to start planning ways to counteract the currently not manifested but inevitable horrible things that you already know that Biden and New Democrats are surely going to do, rather than cry over the spilled milk of Trump’s lost but oh so glorious imperial presidency, no?

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #329504
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,589

      @ravensong The fact that you say so is evidence you are the one suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. And there you go again with that Trump is the enemy of all life on earth. At least you didn’t say he was the enemy of all life in the universe this time. Perhaps you are getting better.

      If Trump loses, I seriously doubt anyone here will cry over it. Your accusation is insulting. Many of us just won’t celebrate it like some because we know that a return to corrupt Democrat control, as opposed to corrupt Republican control,  is no great prize, either. The kleptocracy will continue to rule and the only question is how many wars Biden will get us into or how much worse the next Republican will be, if we even see another presidential election in 2024.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

      • #329513
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,137

        Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) is a term for criticism or negative reactions to United States President Donald Trump that are perceived to be irrational, and have little regard towards Trump’s actual policy positions, or actions undertaken by his administration. The term has been used by Trump supporters to discredit criticism of his actions, as a way of reframing the discussion by suggesting that his opponents are incapable of accurately perceiving the world.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_derangement_syndrome

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

        • #329522
          Yanath
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,342

          @ravensong

          that “whether or not he is the worst criminal in history remains to be seen”, yet you flail about, attacking true progressives who point that out. It’s very obvious to everyone, that Trump provokes you into writing irrational things.

        • #329609
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 14,589

          @ravensong When someone says an absurd thing, like Trump is the worst criminal ever, a threat to all life in the universe, is Hitler, most people will think that person is being irrational. Trump Derangement Syndrome can be applied to such behavior with textbook English accuracy.

          To say that someone who uses the term about a particular thing, like saying Trump is a Russian agent, is a Trump supporter is equally absurd. And English is the language of many socialists, anarchists, libertarians, New Deal Democrats, political cynics, all decent historians, and yes, Republicans, and we have the right to apply that term as we see fit so long as we define it. Notice most of the people I listed are definitely not Trump supporters.

          To say that all of us who say “Trump Derangement Syndrome” are Trump supporters is a pathetically ridiculous smear. At least least with most people on the planet.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #329523
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,335

      Not Donald Trump.  He is as much a product of his society as any of us are.

      Additionally, when was the last time you got in your car to take it a couple blocks when you could have walked?  Then YOU are also part of the problem.

      Finally, Republicans and Democrats have taken so much graft and kickback from oligarchs that on a national level, they are the two lead actors in a “bad cop/good cop ” piece of theater, taking turns demonizing their partners in crime depending on who was allowed to ‘win’ the last election.  Chomsky knows this.  He recognized during the last election cycle, in talking about Bernie’s ultimately failed bid.

      So no, this is not pearl-clutching.  This is dammit, we want a real functioning democracy with real opposition parties, and we (on the left) aren’t going to buy into DNC narratives any longer.  Trump is awful.  Biden is duplicitous.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #329530
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 774

      I understand that both of you hate Trump, but don’t fool yourselves thinking he is worst! He is a person with out filters honestly at this point in history this is good. Once biden is elected the filters will be back up and a good portion of Democrats will take a big sigh of relief and stop paying attention. Like the idea that somehow the democrats are better about the environment then republicans.  Take biden clinton and obummer. And fracking! OBummer and the gulf oil spill when he told us BPs got this for a month he sat on his ass while everything died, to this day the cancer rates are astronomical on the gulf. Obama behind everyone’s backs pushed through pipelines. Obama sat on his ass while tribal people and others were attacked.   Obama was behind the coup in Brazil and Venezuela, and several other south and Central American countries; what do you think those were about. Which brings me to the Democrats who all fall over each other to vote for larger and larger military budgets. The largest polluter in the world! The largest genicidel operation in the world, brought to you by the 1 party system!

      Earthartist

    • #329558
      Satan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,182

      He still hasn’t stopped laughing.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

Viewing 17 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.