Home Topics in Depth Foreign Affairs Clooney and the “White Helmets,” Dupe or Dope?

  • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
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    Clooney and the “White Helmets,” Dupe or Dope?

    http://journal-neo.org/2016/12/29/clooney-and-the-white-helmets-dupe-or-dope/

    George Clooney, one of Hollywood’s biggest box office names, a man with pretentions for the presidency for sure and sworn enemy of President-elect Donald Trump, has announced plans to make a film honoring Syria’s White Helmets. To the much of the public subjected to fake and censored news, the White Helmets are heroes. Always in areas controlled by “moderate opposition” or, quite frankly outright terrorists like ISIS and the group formerly named Jabat al Nusra, this organization has been lauded as the savior of the Syrian people from the beastly depredations of the “regime” and its “brutal dictator,” Assad.

    The truth is something a bit different, a truth it would have taken Clooney only a few moments on the internet to discover, that or the most minimal research, which he either did or didn’t do. If he didn’t do the research, he is a dupe, meaning he has been fooled into supporting a terrorist group against a legitimate democratically elected government for purposes of protecting and supporting paid mercenary murders. Sound harsh? Probably not harsh enough as we will get into shortly. The other possibility, of course, is that Clooney is buying his way into politics by making friends with the same ultra-rightest groups that founded the White Helmets and have used similar fronts with the same roots, as we will show, to propagandize color revolutions that have turned into disaster after disaster. From Vanessa Beeley for Global Research:

    The western media mythology goes as follows:

    “They are made up of former bakers, builders, taxi drivers, students, teachers, pretty much anything apart from rescue workers,” according to the much repeated phrase used by their British ex-military, USAR (Urban Search & Rescue) trainer,James Le Mesurier who specialises in outsourcing warfare – the kind of private security operations exemplified by the likes ofBlackwater (now known as Academi) and DynCorp, and other well-known global suppliers of mercenaries and CIA outreach assassination experts. Running operations through Blackwater gave the CIA the power to have people abducted, or killed, with no one in the government being exactly responsible. ~ The Atlantic, 2012 White Helmets founder Le Mesurier, who graduated from Britain’s elite Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, is said to be an ‘ex’ British military intelligence officer involved in a number of other NATO ‘humanitarian intervention’ theatres of war, including Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq, as well as postings in Lebanon and Palestine. He also boasts a series of high-profile posts at the UN, EU, and UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Not to mention his connections back to the infamous Blackwater (Academi).

    Beeley goes further, outlining her own experiences in Syria with the White Helmets:

    They claim they are not “tied to any political group in Syria, or anywhere else”, yet they are embedded with Al Nusra Front, ISIS and affiliated with the majority of US allied terrorist brigades infesting Syria. In fact during my recent trip to Syria, I was once again struck by the response from the majority of Syrians when asked if they knew who the White Helmets were. The majority had never heard of them, others who follow western media noted that they are a “NATO construct being used to infiltrate Syria as a major player in the terrorist support network.” One of the major issues of what may have been called the Syrian Civil War, but might best be described as an invasion by NATO auxiliaries, is the use of NGO’s or “Non-Governmental Organizations” to move jihadists around the world, move weapons and produce fake news. The White Hats has been very much a part of all of these activities but, truth be told, they are hardly “non-governmental.” From 21st Century Wire:

    More at link above…..

    hopemountain, OzoneTom, Enthusiast and 18 othersDragonfli, DesertRat2015, canoeist52, TM99, Sadie, Grimaldi, leveymg, Downwinder, Blackspade, CNW, Haikugal, polly7, Bearian, PADemD, 7wo7rees, Tuesday, joentokyo, broiles like this
    " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      

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  • 4 months ago #24
    • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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      1. Quite a site that is, journal-neo.org

      This article’s particularly enligthing: http://journal-neo.org/2016/12/10/is-the-new-fake-news-worse-than-the-old-fake-news/

      There is more than minor evidence that such groups do exist. Fr. Malachi Martin wrote about such groups operating at the Vatican in his semi-fictional work, Windswept House. The Kubrick film, Eyes Wide Shut, depicts rituals of the Bilderberg/Hubertus…

       

       

       

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
      • Post Removed (847 posts)
        Profile photo of Post Removed Donor

        2. Why even question? Delete it.

        since it is lies?

        • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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          5. Then we get screams of censorship

          Or in the case of pizza-gate, I was called a person who thought child molestation wasn’t a big deal. That was a treat.

          "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

        3. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Do tell what you think

        regarding the White Helmet terrorist ruse Manny? Any credibility to that one in your eyes?

        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
        • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
          Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

          4. I think they're doing something to somewhat un@#$& a

          a totally @#$&ed-up situation.

          If you have any unambiguous and concise info that the group is nefarious, then I’d certainly reconsider. If you have lots of evidence, let’s start with your best single piece.

          "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
          • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
            Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

            6. Come on Manny, you've obviously seen all the stuff I've posted up here

            dozens of times. My best single piece is this….and its comprehensive.

            https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/mega-file-on-white-helmets-terrorists-hundreds-of-links-and-videos/

            " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
            • polly7 (2614 posts)
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              7. Thanks, Clarity. I was trying to find this post a few days ago.

              Others have posted about the White Helmets bullshit as well, myself included.  I hate these movies made to profit from misery – especially, misery enabled in part because of the supposed ‘heroes’ that were created and funded to push the propaganda for it.

              This is from an article written by Rick Sterling in April, 2015.  http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/04/seven-steps-of-highly-effective-manipulators/  We’ve learned so much more since then, as shown in all of the information you and others have brought here.

              Seven Steps of Highly Effective Manipulators
              White Helmets, Avaaz, Nicholas Kristof and Syria No Fly Zone

              by Rick Sterling / April 9th, 2015

              You might think that after seeing the consequences of their campaign for “freedom and democracy” in Libya, journalists like Nicholas Kristof and “humanitarian campaigners” like Avaaz would have some qualms.

              Unfortunately they have learned nothing. They have generally not been held to account, with a few nice exceptions such as this Greenwald/Hussain article. And now they are at it again. Many well-intentioned but naive members of the U.S. and international public are again being duped into signing an Avaaz petition based on fraud and misinformation. If the campaign succeeds in leading to a No Fly Zone in Syria, it will result in vastly increased war, mayhem and bloodshed.

               

              Nicholas Kristof/New York Times
              The “White Helmets” campaign has been highly successful because of uncritical media promotion.  Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times was an advocate of the NATO/US attack on Libya. According to him, villagers who had been shot, injured and their homes destroyed were not bitter, they were thankful! . “Hugs from Libyans” is how he viewed it.  It was, of course, nonsense, helping to pave the way in the invasion and destruction of the country.

              Now Kristof is uncritically promoting the White Helmets, aiding and abetting their political and propaganda message seeking foreign intervention in Syria.

              Avaaz

              Avaaz is an online lobby organization founded in 2007 by Jeremy Heimans (now CEO of Purpose) and others. Start-up funding was provided by George Soros’ foundation.  While Avaaz has promoted some worthy causes, they have been prominent in promoting neoliberal foreign policies in keeping with the U.S. State Department. Accordingly, they had a major disinformation campaign against Venezuela last year.

              Avaaz very actively promoted a No Fly Zone in Libya. They are now very actively promoting the same for Syria.

               

              “HUMAN RIGHTS” FRONT GROUPS (“HUMANITARIAN INTERVENTIONALISTS”) WARRING ON SYRIA

              https://ingaza.wordpress.com/syria/human-rights-front-groups-humanitarian-interventionalists-warring-on-syria/   Perhaps Clooney should follow some of the links in this article and make a movie that shows how deadly propaganda enables horror.  I’d actually pay to see that.

               

              The White Helmet Controversy
              by Rick Sterling / October 20th, 2016

              http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/10/the-white-helmet-controversy/

              White Helmets Phenom

              Unknown to most people, the White Helmets brand was conceived and directed by a marketing company named “The Syria Campaign” based in New York. They have managed to fool millions of people. Walt Disney might have made a great movie about this: unarmed volunteers fearlessly rescuing survivors in the midst of war without regard to religion or politics. Like most other “true life” Disney movies, it is 10% reality, 90% fiction.

              ………

              The Reality Behind the White Helmet Image

              In contrast with the uncritical promotion of the White Helmets, there have been some investigations of their reality during the past 1.5 years. This timeline shows the early investigations. In April 2015 Dissident Voice published an expose of  their actual creation and purpose. Since then there have been an increasing number of articles and videos revealing what is behind the ‘feel good’ veneer.  Vanessa Beeley has produced numerous articles including documentation of the REAL Syrian Civil Defense which was founded six decades ago. She initiated an online Change.org petition which gathered 3.3 thousand signatures to NOT GIVE THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE to the WHITE HELMETS.  That was twice as many signatures as the petition to GIVE the Nobel Prize to them. Apparently that fact upset someone influential because Change.org removed the petition without explanation.  Did it violate “community standards”?  You can judge for yourself because the petition is shown here.

              Another online petition, also at Change.org, is still up and running.  It calls on the Right Livelihood Foundation to RETRACT their award to the White Helmets. The petition includes ten reasons they do not deserve the prize and are not what they are presented to be. They stole the name Syria Civil Defense from the real Syrian organization. They appropriated the name “White Helmets” from the Argentinian rescue organization Cascos Blancos/White Helmets. They are not independent; they are funded by governments. They are not apolitical; they actively campaign for a No Fly Zone. They do not work across Syria; they ONLY work in areas controlled by the armed opposition, mostly Nusa/Al Qaeda. They are not unarmed; they sometimes do carry weapons and they also celebrate terrorist victories. They assist in terrorist executions.

              In recent weeks, information about the true nature of the White Helmets has been spreading. Max Blumenthal has a two part expose at Alternet: “How the White Helmets became International Heroes while Pushing US Intervention and Regime Change in Syria” and “Inside the Shadowy PR Firm that’s Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria.”  Scott Ritter has written an article which critically looks at the White Helmets’ “lionization”.  Internationally, the Israeli TV station I24 ran a special report with the title “White Helmets: Heroes or Hoax?”, giving equal coverage to supporters and critics. Even “The National” out of United Arab Emirates has documented the controversy around the White Helmets.

              ………..

              Lamb says, “The White Helmets are being attacked with all sorts of unfounded accusations and conspiracy theories.” On the contrary, the evidence is overwhelming. White Helmets are funded by Western governments which want ‘regime change.’ White Helmets pick up bodies after execution. White Helmets carry weapons and celebrate jihadi victories. White Helmets ONLY work in areas dominated by Nusra or an ally. White Helmets actively campaign for a No Fly Zone. These are not “conspiracy theories”; they are facts easily proven in the videos and articles about them.

               

              Rick Sterling is an investigative journalist and member of Syria Solidarity Movement.

              Vanessa Beeley is a British investigative journalist focused on the Middle East. On her return from Syria in September 2016, she reported how 600,000 people moved from East to West Aleppo to take refuge when the NATO-backed rebels attacked the city in 2012.[1]

              Vanessa Beeley is clear that Syria’s White Helmets, lauded in the West as a group of volunteer first-responders, funded by the US, Britain and others to the tune of $100 million and nominated for the 2016 Nobel Peace Prize, are nothing but terrorists. She accuses the White Helmets of stealing ambulances and fire engines, and even killing Syria’s real Civil Defence officials.[2] [3]

              https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Vanessa_Beeley

               

              Journey To Aleppo Part I: Exposing The Truth Buried Under NATO Propaganda
              The Syrian people are suffering under the ‘moderate rebels’ and ‘opposition forces’ backed by the US, NATO member states and their allies in the Gulf states and Israel. Yet their suffering is largely ignored in the mainstream media unless it furthers the agenda dictated by the State Department.
              By Vanessa Beeley | September 20, 2016

              ………

              The activist groups and citizen journalists
              Media pundits outside Syria rely on “activist groups” and “citizen journalists,” who are invariably embedded in areas occupied by groups such as the Nusra Front, Ahrar al-Sham, assorted Free Syrian Army brigades, and even Daesh (an Arabic acronym for the terrorist group known in the West as ISIS or ISIL). Whether they are individual activists or groups like the White Helmets or Aleppo Media Center, it is hard to define them as independent or objective when they are known to receive funding from the United States, NATO member states, and state-funded institutions like USAID–all of which have a vested interest in the “regime change” road map in Syria. The “evidence” these sources produce rarely deviates from the official U.S. narrative and reinforces the propaganda that drives the train of lies that justifies intervention.

              ………

              In August 2015, I shared a report from a resident of Aleppo on my blog. It reads, in part:

              “I feel nothing but rage when I see these thugs and criminals on the other side of the city pouring thousands of litres of clean, fresh water into the disease infested river under the noses of the thirsty Syrians they are claiming to liberate. They are the terrorists, they are the monsters in this story and they are committing daily mass crimes against the citizens of Aleppo but this is never mentioned by the western media. Are we not Syrian?  Does our plight mean nothing, does our story not count?  This is Aleppo, the real Aleppo, not the western media fantasy, this is our sleeping, waking, perpetual nightmare of life under terrorist occupation.”

              As Dr. Bashar Al-Jaafari, Syria’s permanent representative to the United Nations, told the U.N. Security Council in January: “The true siege is on 23 million Syrians and it is being inflicted upon them by the U.S., U.K. and EU government sanctions.”

              ………..

              http://www.mintpressnews.com/journey-to-aleppo-exposing-the-truth-buried-under-nato-propaganda/220563/

               

              Petitioning Executive Director Right Livelihood Foundation Ole von Uexkull and 2 others

              Retract the Award Given to NATO’s White Helmets

              Syria Solidarity Movement – International

              We call on the Right Livelihood Foundation to retract the award given to the “White Helmets” for the following reasons:

              * The White Helmets, also called Syria Civil Defence, are not who they claim to be. The group is not Syrian; it was created with USA/UK  funding under the supervision of a British military contractor in 2013 in Turkey.

              * The name “Syria Civil Defence” was stolen from the legitimate Syrian organization of the same name. The authentic Syria Civil Defence was founded in 1953 and is a founding member of the International Civil Defense Organization (1958).

              * The name “White Helmets” was inappropriately taken from the legitimate Argentinian relief organization Cascos Blancos / White Helmets. In 2014, Cascos Blancos / White Helmets was honored at the United Nations for 20 years of international humanitarian assistance.

              * The NATO White Helmets are primarily a media campaign to support the ‘regime change’ goals of the USA and allies. After being founded by security contractor James LeMesurier, the group was “branded” as the White Helmets in 2014 by a marketing company called “The Syria Campaign” managed out of New York by non-Syrians such as Anna Nolan. “The Syria Campaign” was itself “incubated” by another marketing company named “Purpose”.

              * The White Helmets claim to be “neutral, impartial and humanitarian” and to “serve all the people of Syria” is untrue. In reality, they only work in areas controlled by the violent opposition, primarily terrorists associated with Nusra/AlQaeda (recently renamed Jabhat Fath al Sham).

              * The White Helmets claim to be unarmed is untrue. There are photos which show their members carrying arms and celebrating Nusra/AlQaeda military victories.

              * The White Helmets act as cleanup squad removing the bodies of Syrian civilians executed by the terrorists.

              * The White Helmets claim to be apolitical and non-aligned is untrue. In reality they actively promote and lobby for US/NATO intervention in violation of the norms of authentic humanitarian work.

              * The Right Livelihood description that “Syria Civil Defence” saved over 60,000 people and “support in the provision of medical services to nearly 7 million people” is untrue. In reality the zones controlled by terrorists in Syria have few civilians remaining. That is why we see “cat” video/media stunts featuring the White Helmets.

              * The NATO White Helmets actually  undermine and detract from the work of authentic organizations such as the REAL Syria Civil Defense and Syrian Arab Red Crescent.

              ………..

              In conclusion, the NATO White Helmets do not deserve the Right Livelihood Award. The presentation of this award discredits the Right Livelihood Foundation and past deserving award winners. More importantly, it does a profound disservice by rewarding a fraudulent organization which gives a “feel good” image while manipulating public sentiment and actually promoting war.

              We call on leaders of the Right Livelihood Foundation to investigate the assertions above and, when they are determined to be accurate, retract the Right Livelihood Award from the White Helmets.
              References:

              “Seven Steps of Highly Effective Manipulators” Origins of the White Helmets
              http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/04/seven-steps-of-highly-effective-manipulators/

              The REAL White Helmets awarded for 20 years work
              http://cascosblancos.gob.ar/en/white-helmets-20-years-international-humanitarian-assistance-portrayed-un

              The REAL Syria Civil Defence
              http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-real-syria-civil-defence-exposes-natos-white-helmets-as-terrorist-linked-imposters/5547528

              Who are the Syria White Helmets?
              http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/21/who-are-the-syria-white-helmets/

              Video showing White Helmet association with Nusra/AlQaeda:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aAaReVn2I4

              Mideast Focus TV Special: “White Helmets: Heroes or Hoax?”
              http://www.i24news.tv/en/tv/replay/focus-en#/focus-en/x4ua2xh

              White Helmets Deceive Right Livelihood and CodePink
              http://truepublica.org.uk/global/white-helmets-deceive-right-livelihood-codepink/

              White Helmets cat video showing terrorist zone with no civilians.  “The homeowners abandoned this district and its kittens.”  How fake does it get?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkfcE-Drnas

               

               

              Vanessa Beeley
              21st Century Wire

              Who are the White Helmets? This is a question that everyone should be asking themselves.

              http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/21/who-are-the-syria-white-helmets/

              If this is the case, and I fear it is, the depravity of our government, the US government, the state led media and associated Syria Campaign support groups have reached a new level of perversion of Humanity. The White Helmets have been demonstrated to be a primarily US and NATO funded organisation embedded in Al Nusra and ISIS held areas exclusively.

              This is an alleged “non-governmental” organisation, the definition of an NGO, that thus far has received funding from at least three major NATO governments, including $23 million from the US Government and $29 million (£19.7 million) from the UK Government, $4.5 million (€4 million) from the Dutch Government. In addition, it receives material assistance and training funded and run by a variety of other EU Nations.

              Phillip Hammond, UK Foreign Secretary meeting White Helmets in southern Turkey

              …..

              The White Helmets are perhaps being demonstrated to be the most crucial component of the US and NATO shadow state building inside Syria.  Led by the US and UK this group is essential to the propaganda stream that facilitates the continued media and political campaign against the elected Syrian government and permits the US and NATO to justify their regime of crippling economic and humanitarian sanctions against the Syrian people.

              If this latest mechanised ‘NGO’ blueprint is successful then we could see it being re-deployed as key to future neo-colonialist projects. The White Helmets are a direct intra-venus line into the terrorist enclaves within Syria, acting as a conduit for information, equipment and medical support to maintain the US NATO forces.

              The Syria White Helmets Exposed as US UK Agents Embedded with Al Nusra and ISIS

              vanessa beeley

              The White Helmets – al Qaeda with a facelift
              HANDS OFF SYRIA

               

               

              https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/white-helmets-bizarre-mannequin-challenge-in-syrian-warzone/

               

              • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                10. Thanks Polly, very well done. I hope Manny and others take the time

                to read through the extensive amount of links you have provided, some of which I haven’t seen myself. There is some really important info in your post. Many thanks for that. :)

                " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                • polly7 (2614 posts)
                  Profile photo of polly7 Donor

                  11. You're welcome Clarity.

                  I just went back to articles I’d remembered reading.  There were many more, including all of those you brought here.  Imo, there’s no doubt as to who the White Helmets are and what their purpose was.  The military invasion of Syria was to hinge on the same ‘humanitarian concerns’ as the propaganda for destroying Libya that was produced.

                   

                  Edit to add:  looks like my posts are invisible …. fuck it.  Why bother.  I see why people are leaving.

                   

                   

                  • Blackspade (2395 posts)
                    Profile photo of Blackspade

                    31. Not invisible.


                    Great links.

              • Koko (2685 posts)
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                29. Thank You, Polly! We had to fight to get Iraq Invasion Lies exposed…

                Now we have to fight through the Propaganda on Syria, Libya, Iraq to expose the disinfo that keeps “Our Wars” going once again.  The “White Helmets” need more exposure.  We all know that we don’t have any honest Mainstream US or UK Media on the ground in these countries to report what is really going on.  We are at the mercy of hearsay from Mainstream Media who get their info from sources that are still as shaky as they were when “9/11” happened and we had to invade Afghanistan and pretty much destroy Iraq based on false info.   Who would have thought that Judith Miller and the NYTimes would conspire to report lies.  But, over and over we see NYT and WaPo (now oligarch owned) repeating their past disinfo.

                Thanks for pulling this all together in one place for exposure.

            • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
              Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

              8. Of those many links, which

              is the single one that best demonstrates – unambiguously and concisely – that the group is nefarious?

              "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
              • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                9. I'm not gonna do your homework for you Manny.

                You can see quite clearly what is going on. There is no point in acting like you can’t. Your a smart cookie. We all know that. The info is in ALL of those links which I have compiled here at JPR over the past year if you want to take the time to delve into it.

                I will do this for you however, this is a link to a BBC radio program that highlights that everything you have been hearing about Syria from the establishment media and US government over the past 6 years…….is lies.

                Dr Marcus Papadopoulos speaks with BBC Radio 5 Live about Syria ceasefire
                http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/12/29/dr-marcus-papadopoulos-spoke-with-bbc-radio-5-live-about-syria-ceasefire-prospects/

                According to reports from Moscow this morning, a comprehensive ceasefire agreement is set to go into place at midnight tonight. This new agreement between Russia, Turkey, Iran and Syria, as well as the 7 main ‘rebel’ groups, did not include the US in any of its negotiations.

                Dr Marcus Papadopoulos spoke with BBC Radio 5 Live yesterday about the prospects of a ceasefire in Syria, and also offering some frank insight into the recent liberation of Aleppo, as well as the US-led ‘Coalition’s own role in helping to fuel the 5 year-long conflict…

                " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
                  Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                  13. 7 minutes long, zero mention of the White Helmets.

                  That’s really what you’re hanging your hat on as to why the White Helmets are nefarious?

                  Changing the subject when pressed because you don’t have a good answer… hopefully that’s not what’s happening here. You don’t want people to think you’re using slippery innuendo to attack a group of first responders who save lives in the middle of Hell, do you?

                  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                  • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                    14. Why ignore everything he's worked to bring here and accuse him

                    of slippery innuendo?  Vanessa Beeley has seen these ‘first responders’ (what a fucking insult to all of us that really are) up close and personal and stated who they really are right in the OP article.  Not sure I get the, imo, purposeful ignoring what actual people who CARE about Syrians have been reporting from within Syria …….. just as I didn’t get it for those defending the horrific ruin of Libya with the obvious fake pleas for a no-fly-zone.

                    From Vanessa Beeley for Global Research:

                    The western media mythology goes as follows:

                    “They are made up of former bakers, builders, taxi drivers, students, teachers, pretty much anything apart from rescue workers,” according to the much repeated phrase used by their British ex-military, USAR (Urban Search & Rescue) trainer,James Le Mesurier who specialises in outsourcing warfare – the kind of private security operations exemplified by the likes ofBlackwater (now known as Academi) and DynCorp, and other well-known global suppliers of mercenaries and CIA outreach assassination experts. Running operations through Blackwater gave the CIA the power to have people abducted, or killed, with no one in the government being exactly responsible. ~ The Atlantic, 2012 White Helmets founder Le Mesurier, who graduated from Britain’s elite Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, is said to be an ‘ex’ British military intelligence officer involved in a number of other NATO ‘humanitarian intervention’ theatres of war, including Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq, as well as postings in Lebanon and Palestine. He also boasts a series of high-profile posts at the UN, EU, and UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Not to mention his connections back to the infamous Blackwater (Academi).

                    Beeley goes further, outlining her own experiences in Syria with the White Helmets:

                    They claim they are not “tied to any political group in Syria, or anywhere else”, yet they are embedded with Al Nusra Front, ISIS and affiliated with the majority of US allied terrorist brigades infesting Syria. In fact during my recent trip to Syria, I was once again struck by the response from the majority of Syrians when asked if they knew who the White Helmets were. The majority had never heard of them, others who follow western media noted that they are a “NATO construct being used to infiltrate Syria as a major player in the terrorist support network.” One of the major issues of what may have been called the Syrian Civil War, but might best be described as an invasion by NATO auxiliaries, is the use of NGO’s or “Non-Governmental Organizations” to move jihadists around the world, move weapons and produce fake news. The White Hats has been very much a part of all of these activities but, truth be told, they are hardly “non-governmental.” From 21st Century Wire:

                    ……..

                    Gordon Duff is a Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam War that has worked on veterans and POW issues for decades and consulted with governments challenged by security issues. He’s a senior editor and chairman of the board of Veterans Today, especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook.”
                    http://journal-neo.org/2016/12/29/clooney-and-the-white-helmets-dupe-or-dope/

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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                      15. First off, who is Vanessa Beeley and what makes her authoritative in any way?

                      E.g., I know who Julian Assange is and I tend to believe him because he has a track record of being correct. I’ve never heard of Vanessa Beeley, and know nothing of her track record – please forgive me if that’s sheer ignorance on my part.

                      Second, help me understand this link you write of between James Le Mesurie, Blackwater/Academi, DynCorp, and the CIA? Are you claiming that Le Mesurie’s working, or has worked, in the employ any or all of these folks? Or that he’s hiring them to kill people in Syria? It’s not clear from your post, it seems that what you’re writing is that he’s sorta kinda the kind of person who might associate with those types – and I can’t imagine that you’d post something like that.

                      And then, again, you cite the fellow I mentioned earlier who cites fictional passages written by an exorcist, and scenes from a Stanley Kubrik work of fiction, as proof that something like Satanic rituals commonly occur in high places, although I can’t quite figure out what he’s trying to prove, either.

                      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
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                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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                        17. That's precious.

                        You post a photo of an apparently-dead child in response to my simple requests for facts. That’s really, really disturbing, among other things.

                        At this point, I’m thinking that you got no facts, just stuff by some person who says some stuff but you believe that stuff so it must be true.

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                        18. An 'apparently dead child' drowned trying to escape with his mother and

                        older brother (who both also drowned) the horror of the clusterfuck the west and our bff’s have caused, using our good old propaganda techniques, head chopping funded, trained and armed nutjobs, and selfless, courageous fake humanitarian groups pleading for a no-fly-zone/another regime-change military involvement (which pootie stopped).  Just like we’ve done …… all over the globe, for decades.  Have you missed all of that?  Libya actually wasn’t all that long ago.  There was lots of stuff about it – horrible stuff.

                        I posted facts.  CoS has posted hundreds of articles, as have many others here.  You ignore them and laugh at us.  I don’t find any of it funny ……… it literally sickens me.  I actually thought I was on a progressive board here where this kind of thing wouldn’t happen.  It is yours though.  Take care, Manny.

                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
                        Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                        19. Yet you can't provide a single piece of hard evidence

                        Amazing!

                        Citing as an authoritative source a person who considers works of fiction to be proof of Satanism in high places?

                        Wow!

                        I’m not excusing the US’s hideous behavior in many, many situations. Back on SV I was roundly excoriated for saying that Putin, at worse, has not caused nearly as much death and mayhem as the US has during his reign.

                        But I’m also not buying into the US’s or anyone else’s bad behavior because someone wrote a long post with a lot of links and a lot of innuendo, and posted a grotesque picture, yet indignantly refuses to post even a single direct, cogent, and authoritative fact.

                        Who knows, your claims may actually be correct? And maybe you can actually persuade some folks by simply shouting loud enough… but facts, not crap, are how we all move forward in a helpful way.

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        21. Is Max Blumenthal at Alternet not good enough for you?

                        Max Blumenthal at Alternet busting the Syrian White Helmet terrorists wide open
                        http://www.alternet.org/world/inside-shadowy-pr-firm-thats-driving-western-opinion-towards-regime-change-syria

                        Various excerpts- Massive expose’ by Max Blumenthal at the link above….

                        1) The Syria Campaign presents itself as an impartial, non-political voice for ordinary Syrian citizens that is dedicated to civilian protection. “We see ourselves as a solidarity organization,” The Syria Campaign strategy director James Sadri told me. “We’re not being paid by anybody to pursue a particular line. We feel like we’ve done a really good job about finding out who the frontline activists, doctors, humanitarians are and trying to get their word out to the international community.” Yet behind the lofty rhetoric about solidarity and the images of heroic rescuers rushing in to save lives is an agenda that aligns closely with the forces from Riyadh to Washington clamoring for regime change. Indeed, The Syria Campaign has been pushing for a no-fly zone in Syria that would require at least “70,000 American servicemen” to enforce, according to a Pentagon assessment, along with the destruction of government infrastructure and military installations. There is no record of a no-fly zone being imposed without regime change following —which seems to be exactly what The Syria Campaign and its partners want.

                        2) But like The Syria Campaign, the White Helmets are anything but impartial. Indeed, the group was founded in collaboration with the United States Agency for International Development (USAID)’s Office of Transitional Initiatives, an explicitly political wing of the agency that has funded efforts at political subversion in Cuba and Venezuela. USAID is the White Helmets’ principal funder, committing at least $23 million to the group since 2013. This money was part of $339.6 million budgeted by USAID for “supporting activities that pursue a peaceful transition to a democratic and stable Syria” — or establishing a parallel governing structure that could fill the power vacuum once Bashar Al-Assad was removed. Thanks to an aggressive public relations push by The Syria Campaign, the White Helmets have been nominated for the Nobel Prize, and have already been awarded the “alternative Nobel” known as the Right Livelihood Award.

                        3) When an aid convoy organized by the Syrian Arab Red Crescent (SARC) and United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs came under attack on its way to the rebel-held countryside of West Aleppo in Syria this September 18, the White Helmets pinned blame squarely on the Syrian and Russian governments. In fact, a White Helmets member was among the first civilians to appear on camera at the scene of the attack, declaring in English that “the regime helicopters targeted this place with four barrel [bombs].” The White Helmets also produced one of the major pieces of evidence Western journalists have relied on to implicate Russia and the Syrian government in the attack: a photograph supposedly depicting the tail fragment of a Russian-made OFAB 250-270 fragmentation bomb. (This account remains unconfirmed by both the UN and SARC, and no evidence of barrel bombs has been produced).

                        4) The day after Omran made headlines, the left-wing British news site the Canary publicized another photograph that exposed a grim reality behind the iconic image. Culled from the Facebook page of Mahmoud Raslan, the activist from the American-operated Aleppo Media Center who took the initial video of Omran, it showed Raslan posing for a triumphant selfie with a group of rebel fighters. The armed men hailed from the Nour Al-Din Al-Zenki faction. At least two of the commanders who appeared in the photo with Raslan had recently beheaded a boy they captured, referring to him in video footage as “child” while they taunted and abused him. The boy has been reported to be a 12-year-old named Abdullah Issa and may have been a member of the Liwa Al-Quds pro-government Palestinian militia. This was not the only time Raslan had appeared with Al-Zenki fighters or expressed his sympathy. On August 2, he posted a selfie to Facebook depicting himself surrounded by mostly adolescent Al-Zenki fighters dressed in battle fatigues. “With the suicide fighters, from the land of battles and butchery, from Aleppo of the martyrs, we bring you tidings of impending joy, with God’s permission,” Raslan wrote. He sported a headband matching those worn by the “suicide fighters.” Despite its unsavory tendencies and extremist ideological leanings, Al-Zenki was until 2015 a recipient of extensive American funding, with at least 1000 of its fighters on the CIA payroll. Charles Lister, a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute who has said his research on the Syrian opposition was “100% funded by Western govts,” has branded Al-Zenki as “moderate opposition fighters.”

                         

                         

                        I think you owe Polly (who has a heart of gold) an apology.

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        22. Not enough for ya Manny……try the BBC.

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • polly7 (2614 posts)
                        Profile photo of polly7 Donor

                        23. The last thing I want is an apology.

                        But I’d like my fucking money back ……… it wasn’t much, but still – got sucked in!

                        Take care Clarity and a Happy New Year to you and yours!  As well as to everyone else here.

                        It’s been a slice.

                         

                        Actually ….. you know, I DO (that’s ‘yelling’, unlike highlighting text in bold) believe I was owed an apology.  I supported you elsewhere Manny and got ‘timed out’ for it, called filthy fucking names and placed on a permanent shit list.  I believed you were intellectually honest and kind.  You’ve been neither, here.  When it comes to the absolute horror of needless war for empire and greed and the evil, disgusting propaganda used to enable it …. I expect at least a tiny bit of actual interest about it from anyone questioning real investigative journalists like Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett – who haven’t been funded to the tune of millions of dollars by gov’ts wanting regime change, or any other, to spread what they’ve seen and learned while in Syria (which no doubt would be propaganda, to you).

                        I don’t enjoy your mind games when it comes to the horrors and suffering of ‘war’.  Reading through the first post I made here and watching even a few of the videos (so sorry I’ve made it all so hard to do) makes it absolutely clear who the ‘heroic’ White Helmets are.  As to intellectual dishonesty – even a 12 y/o could come to some sort of conclusion if they forced themselves to have a look.  Seems that personal insults, snark and laughter though is just easier.  I got exactly the same when trying to defend against the invasion of Iraq. Libya and Ukraine.  Absolutely, you’re a hundred times more educated than I am, but you know what?  Intelligence of the heart, empathy and compassion towards those human beings hurt, mutilated, tortured, murdered using the same fucking propaganda (only not quite this blatant and fake) we all saw towards every other stinking coup or regime change for empire, matters as well.

                        There …. I feel better.

                        Seeya

                         

                         

                      • Dragonfli (838 posts)
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                        58. "I think you owe Polly (who has a heart of gold) an apology."

                        So do I.

                        I was told regarding my concerns about helping the regime changers, hell, nearly demanding that we parrot the MSM propaganda meant to portray monsters as heroes (monsters that want a no fly zone to ensure war no less – a goal of Hillary clinton’s) was a direction I was not willing to take.

                        I made these statements because Polly was owed an apology for being treated poorly enough that she felt she had to leave. I was told these things by a person with admin status, one I adore in fact, just like I adore polly who has shown me incredible kindness and who I consider a real friend, One I have had many off-site conversations with, she was the only person in my life to contact me over the holidays on Christmas, none of my other friends did that, and my family has ignored me since a step-father took it over decades ago, yet not even cousins that I still get along with and talk to occasionally sent a card, text, or email to wish me a happy holiday, only polly.

                        She also ships my dog food so she has something to eat besides my vegetarian scraps. I have no money, only food stamps, so Polly helps my dog, heart of gold indeed.

                        I was told that all we do is bitch, which, because it was directed at me, was meant for me, and that we should alert the mods as an alternative to complaining if we, or more precisely myself, as it should have been stated as it was a reply to me, felt she was derided.

                        I thought about taking that advice and alerting on Manny, then, (and this is actually true) I spontaneously broke into laughter while my finger hovered over that same button.

                        Why? I am not sure, probably because I was reminded of a situation many years ago, when, while restoring a house, one of the other foremen running a crew that was supposed to be working with mine, chose to sleep in his truck between beers rather than work while supervising (the job meant being the best worker on the crew as well as helping coordinate the crew’s efforts). I had to do his work, both physically and coordinate his crew as well as do my own work in order to maintain, or at least come close to our schedule.

                        Why did I think of this? simple, that foreman was the company owner’s brother and policy was to report to the owner anything amiss with any worker, even other foremen, but the unwritten rule was Jerry was immune, which he most assuredly was. I was the best at what I did, everyone knew that, including the boss and his brother, I was recruited from another contractor because of it. I did have the authority to send a member of my crew home, even fire him if he was engaged in dangerous activity like drinking and then erecting or climbing scaffolds or operating a saw, but policy required I also report it, my authorities extended to other foremen and the same policies applied, so why didn’t I send Jerry home and report him, or at least report him?

                        I laughed because the same answer to that question applies to this case, only difference would be if I were a moderator (like a foreman) rather than simply a worker bee, but even the lowest laborer was supposed to report things to the owner, either directly or indirectly through me if I were their forman, either method was not only acceptable but expected.

                        It was all too familiar, just as silly and it made me laugh, haven’t done that in months (thanks Manny for that at least). Here I am, a lowest of laborers, that was just scolded for what offended me and speaking of it rather than reporting it, I laughed because the Mod that received the alert would have been in the same uncomfortable situation I was in when my crew asked me to report Jerry to his brother.

                        Fuck that I would have been fired! I wouldn’t put a virtual foreman in the same position and discomfort.

                        Polly (who has a heart of gold) is owed an apology, and there is nothing I, her friend can do about that, or stop it happening again – Jerry is immune.

                         

                        “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

                          

                          

                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        62. Thanks for that analogy Dragonfli……

                        your life stories are always very poetic and your analogies interesting. I, for one, enjoying reading them and I feel they help me slow down and think about things more deeply. Happy New Years to you and I hope you find a way to get back in touch more regularly with your family and slip past that step-father that took them over. A post like yours is much better than any alert. :)

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
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                        25. Vanessa Beeley is a Middle East researcher and the daughter of Sir Harold Beeley

                        Her father worked for the UK foreign office on Mid East policy and she is a frequent collaborator with Patrick Henningsen at 21st Century Wire website in the UK. She has traveled to Syria on  numerous occasions over the past few years and her blog is below. There you can learn more about her for yourself.

                        https://thewallwillfall.org/about/

                        Here’s the link to her fathers Wiki page so you can see his credentials and where Vanessa’s background on ME matters was formed:

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Beeley

                         

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                  • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                    Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                    20. No…..I was simply pointing out to you that everything you have heard about

                    Syria from the MSM is lies. You can read the full body of my work above which shows quite clearly that the group is made up of terrorists and is being used as a ruse to trick western audiences into supporting regime change in Syria. Heck, I am sure YOU HAVE read it already. I’ve been posting at JPR for a year now. You’ve seen my posts about the White Helmets on multiple occasions and never had a problem with any of them until recently.

                    You can simplistically request ‘one item to prove a case’ all you like, but the entire body of compiled photos, videos and linked information is what proves the fact the White Helmets are actually terrorists……and that body of work is comprehensive…….that is exactly why I made it so……so people would have trouble disputing that which stares them directly in the face.  You’ve been running this site for a year, I’ve been posting for a year…..I’m pretty sure you know whats in those posts.

                    Tell me….would one item determine that the Vietnam war was based on lies, or that the invasion of Iraq was based upon lies? Of course not…… it is all the horrific and subversive activities combined that led to unraveling the big lies……same as in this situation with the White Helmets….same as in Ukraine.

                    Do tell Manny…..are you aware of who the Real Syrian Civil Defense are? And are you aware that since Aleppo has now been liberated by Syrian and Russian armed forces that no ‘White Helmets’ were found in the city? Tell me where they are now Manny if they are the real deal? Are they in Aleppo? And if so, who are they treating now? Do you know that the real Syrian Civil Defense operates directly through the Syrian government? Where did the $100 million go that the White Helmets were receiving from western governments….even though their own website states they receive no foreign funding?

                    All that evidence I posted above and you have simply chosen to ignore it……and now you ask Polly who Vanessa Beeley is without doing any research yourself? Come on……and what about Eva Bartlett who has continued the work of Rachel Corrie and now works to expose the White Helmet terrorists in Syria? Is she not credible for you either? What about Patrick Henningsen and Max Blumenthal? What about Peter Hitchen’s and Professor Stephen Cohen? What about John Pilger and Liz Phelan? Are they all having us on for a dark, dark joke….because they all have written or spoken about the White Helmets not being what they report to be. Please read the entire body of work above, examine all the photos and videos and go through Polly’s links also….. then and only then can this conversation with YOU Manny (of all people) be taken seriously. Tell me……how did you manage to miss all this stuff over the past year?

                    " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                    • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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                      28. OK! Maybe we're starting to get somewhere.

                      To sum up your first three paragraphs… I think you’re saying that there’s no hard evidence to prove that the White Helmets are nefarious, but there’s a lot of circumstantial evidence. Please confirm or deny that this is the case, it will make our deliberations easier if I understand what you’re claiming.

                      As to the rest of your posts… I perused Max Blumenthal’s piece and didn’t see that there was a smoking gun, just circumstantial evidence, stuff along the lines of those bastards at USAID gave them money!!!  Those bastards at USAID also give a lot of money the the Carter Center, as does Carlos Slim and probably a bunch of other interesting folks — is that equally a black mark against Jimmy Carter’s posse? Is the Guinea Worm not, in fact, close to eradication? Or is the standard different for the Carter Foundation?

                      I got a little excited when you implied that Stephen Cohen had tagged the White Helmets as a nefarious organization – unlike e.g., Ms. Beeley, Stephen Cohen has a long and well-validated track record. So I searched for Larry Cohen’s thoughts on the White Helmets — but found nothing after about 10 minutes of work. Maybe it’s out there somewhere, but I haven’t seen it — I’d appreciate it if you could point me to what you had  in mind. That’s now two times that you’ve pointed me at things that seem to have zero content on the White Helmets, so you’ll understand why I won’t go diving into any more voluminous articles or long videos unless you point to the specific bits that pertain to the White Helmets.

                      I think you’re right in bringing up Iraq as an example, dead right. The lesson of Iraq is that we should be super-duper careful as to whether and when we use circumstantial evidence, because it’s often utter bull@#$& – as Ben Franklin said (IIRC), “Half a truth is usually a whole lie“. Is your takeaway from Iraq any different?

                       

                      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        32. Stephen Cohen on the White Helmets…….Democracy Now- Dec. 14, 2016

                        I’ve queued it up for ya.

                        Now, I’ve once again provided you directly what you asked for…….the Blumenthal article also laid it out quite succinctly…….how about you return the favor and tell me where the White Helmets are now operating, due to the fact that Aleppo has been cleared and all refugees moved out of the city? Keep in mind that was not 250,000 people (as reported by US media outlets) in those terrorist held zones. It was less than 50,000 people of which approximately 10,000 were terrorists financed by Saudi Arabia and Qatar (I’m sure you’ve seen the Podesta emails on that subject). Hopefully you are aware that the city has been taken back?

                        Keep in mind also that US State Department spokesperson Mark Toner also stated on record that the White Helmets had saved 40,000 lives. The numbers obviously don’t add up.

                        So now its your turn to answer a request…..please explain where these White Helmets are currently…..are they operating in Aleppo or not? Did they disappear into thin air when the city was liberated by Syrian and Russian armed forces? Where did the $100 million in US and UK funding go? Was it for emergency vehicles and life saving equipment? Why didn’t the Syrian and Russian armed forces come across these items? Where is this Aleppo Media Center that White Helmets utilize and the US was using as a source for information? Are you aware that east Aleppo has had no electricity, Internet or Wi-Fi for over two years now? How did they upload video from within the destroyed city?

                        Lots of questions, I know. I’m patient. If you would take the time to answer them to the best of your ability rather than just me providing info to you then we can have a productive two way conversation, rather than you just ridiculing myself and others, such as Polly, for posting info that you choose not to take seriously. You owe the site readers that much I think.

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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                        33. Thanks, but Cohen doesn't weigh in on the White Helmets in that video

                        He addresses them for about 10 seconds, saying that some people believe that their claims are lies, then immediately includes himself in a different category of people, those who don’t know one way or the other.

                        Also, Cohen states that he relies on the NY Times and the Washington Post for the news, although later he says the the NY Times has not been well behaved. I thought that you felt those papers were disreputable?

                        I think I agreed with everything Cohen says in that video – but he does not say what you imply he said. Cohen agrees with my pont of view, not yours.

                        Look, after spending significant time reviewing three pieces that you claim state things that they don’t state (and I note that you haven’t disagreed when I pointed this out) I’ve given up on learning anything new here.

                        I’m no cheerleader for today’s US government or political parties – in fact I just responded to a Howard Dean tweet that claimed the Burlington power company had been hacked by the Russians, by asking if there was any actual evidence, or was this more BS like the ClintonDNC Russian hacking claims. But that doesn’t mean that I’ll assume that anyone who does business with the US is evil, nor that anyone who has a beef with the US is honest and my friend.

                        Big picture, it seems to me that you do this a lot – make strong claims and provide reams of alleged circumstantial evidence, much of which in no way supports your claims, and most of the rest is by people who neither I nor Stephen Cohen rely on for news. And it all, perhaps coincidentally, falls under “Russia good, US bad”.

                        I hope that this does not continue.

                         

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        34. In other words, you just avoid answering all those questions I posed.

                        Thats very respectful of you.

                        As to the video and your incorrect assessment of it.

                        He states specifically from the 7 minute mark that “the Russians and Syrians bombing civilians, as quoted by HRW’s Mr. Roth, is based upon very selective reports that cannot be verified, for example, by the White Helmets person that Human Rights Watch had testify to this. He didn’t tell us how he knew that, how he observed it, how he escaped with his own life. Moreover, there are people that doubt the reports that come from the White Helmets….that they have an agenda, so the rest of us are left here trying to weigh the different narratives.”

                        If you watch the entirety of the video you will see that his position actually aligns with my own and not yours regarding Syria. Your very selective in your choice of statements that you mold to your argument while accusing others of doing the same. That is notable….. as is your last sentence.

                        Now would you care to answer the questions above instead of trying to get away from the debate?

                        Anyways……let me just leave a couple of items right here for folks to check out just the same. Because I hate the Washington Post and New York Times so much…….who I know would never providing this kind of stuff for you.

                        Peter Hitchens also states on the BBC that “we rely entirely on propaganda sources, on pictures that always show wounded children being carried by ‘noble’ unarmed men in heaps of ruble, and we rely on this and we take it as real, yet we never see any of this kind of reporting from Mosul or from Fallujah”. Looks like he doesn’t buy the White Helmets story either Manny. It is notable that in this BBC interview from December 9th, 2016, the woman speaking in favor of the White Helmets states there are 300,000 people trapped in Aleppo being bombed everyday. Well…..maybe she was unaware that Russia cease flying bombing sorties in early November? And why are her numbers so inflated? Where did these 300,000 people go? Did they just disappear because less than 50,000 people came out of Aleppo after the liberation two weeks ago?

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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                        35. We understand the English language differently, it seems.

                        Moreover, there are people that doubt the reports that come from the White Helmets….that they have an agenda, so the rest of us are left here trying to weigh the different narratives.

                        Let’s break that down. The first part is “Moreover, there are people that doubt the reports that come from the White Helmets….that they have an agenda

                        This might, or might not, include the speaker of these words. It’s agnostic as to the relationship between people who believe it, and the speaker.

                        Continuing on to “so the rest of us“; this always includes the speaker. That’s what “us” means.

                        And what is that group – which includes the speaker – trying to do? “So the rest of us are left here trying to weigh the different narratives“. The group that Dr. Cohen includes himself in is “trying to weigh the different narratives“. He has compared his group to a different group, thereby implicitly stating that he’s not a member of that other group.

                        If I’m misunderstanding that, let me know.

                        As to the rest of the video… perhaps we have similarly different understandings of the English language for that, as well.

                        P.S. – if a cop dresses like an Occupy protester and causes mayhem, does that mean Occupy is in favor of mayhem? Or is that a far-fetched scenario?

                         

                         

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        36. Those dancing shoes your wearing would make Gene Kelly jealous.

                        Your literally having a dance all around that which stares you in the face. Its interesting to watch. Semantics…..semantics. I guess we”ll have to wait for the Washington Post and New York Times to provide you confirmation that its raining.

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
                        Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                        37. Bullshit.

                        The English Language has rules. I assume that Professor Cohen knows those rules well. You are assuming that Cohen made a mistake that caused what he actually said to mean something entirely different than what you want he intended it to mean.

                        Understanding the meaning of simple sentences ain’t dancing – it’s understanding the English Language. Any middle-schooler who understands what Cohen says to mean something different than what it plainly means, should get serious language supports.

                        Also, I note the your incorrect usage of “your”. Perhaps you’re not a native English speaker?

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        38. More for ya…..

                        I do have to admit though……..George Clooney was pretty good in Michael Clayton. It was all downhill from there. And Manny you know I’m an english speaker as you have my credit card information on file. I donated to JPR twice. Mary also has been given links to my Facebook page and the groups I admin, as well as my SoundCloud page. What are you up to Manny? Why these weird posts from you lately?

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
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                        39. Before I view this piece funded by Russia

                        (Who are always in the right, amirite?)

                        Does Stephen Cohen actually weigh in on the White Helmets in this video? No more wild-goose chases for me, three’s my limit. Actually four, maybe more, at this point.

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        40. I wouldn't watch it if I was you…….it may not fit your narrative.

                        Now can you respectful address the questions I posed above about Aleppo and the White Helmets, and also state on record that you are fully aware I am a native English speaker as you have my credit card info on file and have received donation payments from me twice?

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
                        Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                        41. I wan't going to reply,

                        Because of the reasons I’ve discussed, but this: You’re claiming that having a credit card is prooof that you’re a native English speaker??? Please tell me I have that wrong.

                        Also, NB, we don’t have anyone’s credit card info on file. Paypal does.

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        43. Then go ask Mary if my personal links I sent her check out?

                        She has links to my Facebook, my two geopolitical groups I admin on Facebook and my SoundCloud page. I even sent her a link to a family video the other day linked to my You Tube account. You can then see that they are all under the same name and if you like I can send you an email to show you that I received a Paypal payment receipt from Jackpine Radicals. In other words, you know full well I’m an American citizen. Lets not get silly.

                        You still have completely ignored the questions about where the ‘Aleppo based’ White Helmets are currently as Aleppo has been liberated. Do tell……where are they?

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
                        Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                        44. Truly, I don't care if you're a citizen or native English speaker

                        What I do care about is the meaning of language, and what constitutes “proof” of a thing.

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        45. Where are the White Helmets now? I'm waiting on your answer.

                        I’ve asked you ten times and you continue to ignore it.

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • Grimaldi (161 posts)
                        Profile photo of Grimaldi

                        50. And he will always ignore it Clarity

                        It would require an answer with ‘facts not crap’ (his words back at him) .  He goes to that ‘third way’ stuff to deflect when he has no real answers.

                        You again are outstanding in your informative and necessary posts.  Very Radical!

                         

                        And you are much classier when going up against bullying posts than I ever will be.

                         

                        Thanks for your stellar work here.

                      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
                        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

                        57. Cheers Grimaldi……right back at ya.

                        :) Like Polly, your a gem.

                        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
                      • Marym625 (17178 posts)
                        Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

                        47. I'm saying the same thing to both you and CoS

                        I believe you’re being misinterpreted in your statement about the English language. You are not accusing CoS of not being a U.S. citizen or that English isn’t your first language. Correct?

                        I find this to be a shame. There’s nothing wrong with push back. If anything, it’s the best way to dig deeper into a subject than total agreement on everything.

                        We cannot trust the NYT, WaPo or many other publications that were once trustworthy.

                        We cannot trust RT (I don’t mean as a whole with all the publications that fall under it but the Russia Today News) anymore than we trusted Pravda back in the day.

                        There is bias and propaganda on both sides. Depending on the subject, one is worse than the other. At the moment, most of the worse is coming from the U.S. But that doesn’t mean that RT is not using propaganda.

                        One of my favorite sayings from my grandparents, though I am screwing it up:

                        “Convince a man against his will, he’ll have the same opinion still.”

                        At some point people should agree to disagree. Imo

                        948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                      • MannyGoldstein (1795 posts)
                        Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                        49. Yes. nt

                        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • Marym625 (17178 posts)
                        Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

                        46. I'm going to say this to both you and Manny

                        I believe you’re misinterpreting his statement about the English language. He’s not accusing you of not being a U.S. citizen or that English isn’t your first language.

                        I find this to be a shame. There’s nothing wrong with push back. If anything, it’s the best way to dig deeper into a subject than total agreement on everything.

                        We cannot trust the NYT, WaPo or many other publications that were once trustworthy.

                        We cannot trust RT (I don’t mean as a whole with all the publications that fall under it but the Russia Today News) anymore than we trusted Pravda back in the day.

                        There is bias and propaganda on both sides. Depending on the subject, one is worse than the other. At the moment, most of the worse is coming from the U.S. But that doesn’t mean that RT is not using propaganda.

                        One of my favorite sayings from my grandparents, though I am screwing it up:

                        “Convince a man against his will, he’ll have the same opinion still.”

                        At some point people should agree to disagree. Imo

                        948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                      • Peace13 (933 posts)
                        Profile photo of Peace13 Donor

                        53. Can we believe the Press Secretary for the President of the United States

                        when he says, during a press conference that we pay the White Helmets?  What other reference is needed. This is proof that the organization is not what it says it is!

                        Life's too short to vote for immoral warmongers.
                      • Marym625 (17178 posts)
                        Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

                        54. I can't make anyone believe anything

                        And I’ve stated nothing about my thoughts on this. I was trying to de-escalate a discussion.

                        948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                      • Peace13 (933 posts)
                        Profile photo of Peace13 Donor

                        55. I know and I would like to say I appreciate it…

                        …but I can’t. There is real evidence to refute the acquisitions against solid posters. It is out there. What are we going to do. Is this constraint from within or without.  That is what I would like to know. Are we back into the fake news and the threats from above. If so we may as well face it and put the keyboards down. Seriously. This is so sad.

                        Take care. As one of my favorite people used to say…things go like that and then…they get worse.  Happy New Year.❤️

                        Life's too short to vote for immoral warmongers.
                      • Marym625 (17178 posts)
                        Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

                        56. I'm not sure what you're asking

                        There’s been nothing said or implied that even remotely hints at saying we’re going to censor this or other things.

                        948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                      • MrMickeysMom (1179 posts)
                        Profile photo of MrMickeysMom Donor

                        63. Manny, you should know that track records aside, something is not right…

                        I’ve seen enough Steven Colbert to see when he doesn’t always come off with a great track record. More recently, I’ve seen my old favorite, Keith Olbermann come off the same way against those Russians.

                        I DO have serious doubt that the White Helmets are ANYTHING more than an off-Hollywood production studio…. See this one?

                        Hell no...I'm not giving up...     cat-gif-238.gif giphy.gif
      • coolepairc (190 posts)
        Profile photo of coolepairc

        48. Connecting the dots

        Have a look at this video interview of Tulsi Gabbard. I don’t think it’s a stretch to be suspicious of the White Helmets based on Tulsi’s assessment of who we (along with our closest allies in the region) are backing in Syria:

    • Dragon Turtle (175 posts)
      Profile photo of Dragon Turtle Donor

      12. Apparently it's like

      those old American westerns where the good cowboys always wear white hats and the bad ones wear black hats.  They must also have super powers to save the exact same little girl miles away and simultaneously in different locations. Nothing suspicious about them no way…

      Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth - Albert Einstein "The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim." Gustave Le Bon
      • Peace13 (933 posts)
        Profile photo of Peace13 Donor

        52. Like wearing a white hat in a war zone would be a smart thing!

        They might want to slap a Red Cross or dirty that thing up if they want to stay alive!

        Life's too short to vote for immoral warmongers.
    • polly7 (2614 posts)
      Profile photo of polly7 Donor

      24. Del.

      • Dragonfli (838 posts)
        Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

        59. Remember my dearest of friends, we'll talk as we often do of many things

        Of birds with wings and other things

        Of life and death or hope that sings

        Of angels and demons and things between

        In sadness or joy I’ll always be seen

        We’ll stay in touch as friends will do

        when you’re ready, I’ll be there for you.

        I’ll check my email, take as long as you need

         

        “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

          

          

      • Haikugal (4804 posts)
        Profile photo of Haikugal Donor

        61. Oh Polly…please don't leave!

        :hug: I am selfish and want to read your wonderful posts….I will miss you terribly.

          Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!!
    • Peace Patriot (1463 posts)
      Profile photo of Peace Patriot Donor

      26. There is no question that the "white helmets" are a fraud.

      I’ve read or viewed almost all of what Clarity and Polly 7 have posted about this. You really have to be in some kind of serious “denial” to ignore the hard evidence of the “white helmets”‘s blatant lies and association with extremist jihadists.  The corrupt corporate media’s promotion of the “white helmets” should be enough to tell anyone with a brain that they are a fraud.  But the evidence against them is not just reasonable inference.  It is overwhelmingly convincing evidence.

      And George Clooney is an asshole.  $350,000-per-couple dinner for Hillary Clinton.  Doing a propaganda film for the CIA, for the Neo-Cons – for warmongers, war creators and war profiteers!  Yes, he wants to be president – and is okay with riding into the White House on a river of blood.  Despicable!

      https://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/18/headlines/george_clooney_hosts_clinton_dinner_then_admits_sanders_is_right_about_obscene_money_in_politics

      • Clarity of Signal (3700 posts)
        Profile photo of Clarity of Signal Banned

        27. Thank you Peace Patriot. Your always a voice of reason

        and posters like you and Polly were one of the main reasons I hung on at DU so long under my former moniker of “Go West Young Man”. I appreciate you bringing more light onto this important subject.

        " I put my energy into exposing the Deep State, the corrupt media, the global elite and the warmongering bastards that deceive us all. I no longer support any political party and I resist divisive identity politics as it is simply another tool of the global elite used to pit us against each other so we don't go after them for their crimes."      
      • Grimaldi (161 posts)
        Profile photo of Grimaldi

        30. Great post.

        Appreciated.  Thank you Peace Patriot.  Agree that the unbridled ‘promotion’ bs speaks volumes about the White Helmut frauds.

        Evidence IS overwhelming to those who can see.

    • Sadie (3065 posts)
      Profile photo of Sadie Donor

      42. What about General Wesley Clark?

      He told Amy in an interview that this war has been planned since 9/11.  In fact, the US planned out the 7 countries that we would do regime changing in.  The US is in the business for the 1%’ers of taking down other country’s Governments for  oil.   Starting w/ Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan & Iran.

      I very much appreciate everything that Polly and Clarity of Signal have exposed on what our government has done in Syria.  It is shameful.

       

       

       

        Wake up, peeps, their kids go to Harvard and Yale; your kids go to Iraq & Afghanistan.   
    • Peace13 (933 posts)
      Profile photo of Peace13 Donor

      51. The President's press secretary admits that we pay the White Helmets

      tens of millions of dollars. They are not independent do gooders. Educate yourselves folks.  We have spent millions of dollars in PR  and this group is part of it.  This is unbelievable that this subject is questioned here!  I cry for my country and all of us.  We are in serious trouble.

      Life's too short to vote for immoral warmongers.
      • Enthusiast (6690 posts)
        Profile photo of Enthusiast Donor

        60. We are in serious trouble.

        That’s for damned sure.

        "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church
    • CNW (2491 posts)
      Profile photo of CNW Donor

      64. There is no doubt at all in my mind and I would think that any

      reasonable person would agree that Clarity is correct. He provides an abundance of sources to back up what he is showing and telling us. This is in line with anything I have read about the White Helmets.  The only ones who think otherwise are ignorant of the information shown to them, by that I mean the sources and references. Clarity is an excellent source of information that really need no defending.

      The same goes for Polly7, she put together , in post  #7, an exceptional amount of information that backs up what the original OP was about. There should have been no doubt after looking at and reading her post.  I wish I had that talent.

      Independent journalists have put themselves in danger to get the truth out, yet some will still say that’s not enough. What more do they want?
      It makes me question the motives of the doubter, since there is no apparent rhyme or reason to the rebuttal  that makes sense.

      It looks and sounds like arguing solely for the sake of arguing, forget the message – attack the messenger.