CNN must be sweating out the bet on Warren that they placed

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    • #251977
      Babel 17
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      • Total Posts: 3,437

      If Bernie becomes the nominee then he won’t need them, but they’ll be dependent on him to survive.

      He could make them the training ground for his junior staffers, and he and his top surrogates could cut their appearances and interviews with CNN to a minimum. CNN has been losing to the Garden Channel (or similar) some nights and that means revenues are dropping. Covering a general election would be expensive, as would be covering the Sanders administration, and the network would want to turn a profit on that.

      If Bernie becomes the favorite, and Warren has no chance, then CNN might turn on a dime and throw her overboard. I still remember the great suck-up after Bush/Cheney won the election. Everybody became a big enough fan so as to gain access. Access is all, it’s what gets you book deals, and interviews that get good ratings.

      Salary is tied to ratings. Lol, Bernie could be adjusting the incomes of those multi-millionaire talking heads before his first budget gets passed. 🙂

    • #251991
      Snort McDork
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      • Total Posts: 3,781

      I’m not sure about all this, but you are correct about the access. What is likely to happen under a Sanders Administration is a “breakup” with Time-Warner. I would be thrilled if this were to pass. Good chance that it would as would be the case for all other mega-media outlets. Local broadcast companies would also be required to divest of monopoly ownership. That would be awesome. As a former broadcaster, I would truly love to see these corporate media ass-hats be required to only carry 15% of the market share–so as to allow competition. Limiting them to 12% to 14% would be good too.  They have way too much market share (about 30%) under laws passed by Billio in his Administration. Under a Sanders Administration, I hope his FCC Chair would require “News’ as opposed to Infotainment, which is it’s current status.  I hope the days of the corporate BS is slowly coming to an end.

      I'm Snort McDork and I approved this message.

      "I like birdy num-nums"

    • #251995
      Bernin4U
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      • Total Posts: 405

      Warren’s move was best described (imo) as kamikaze. Neither she nor Bernie were intended to survive it.

      On edit: Not that it was ever her intention to take herself out. Just that the Empire won’t have any problem with her taking one for the team. And it’s not like they ever actually wanted her in the first place. Canceling Bernie is her biggest value.

      Jesse #Ventura2020 volunteers needed
      https://peopleforjesse.com/

    • #252005
      99th Monkey
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      • Total Posts: 204

      This Bernie/Warren spat is deeply disappointing to me, but it has not shaken my  solid support for Bernie,

      The disappointing piece is that neither Warren nor Bernie has expressed the notoriously obvious truth that 2 people (or even 4 people) can come away from the same event with 2 completely different interpretations of exactly what happened.  It’s like the classic Japanese movie Rashomon,  where 4 different people radically differ in their recollections of the same event.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon

      • #252024
        Bernin4U
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 405

        Even then, even if she 100% believes it’s exactly what he said word-for-word, does that make her handling of it even 1% acceptable?

        This goes far beyond her perception vs his. The real issue is -how- she’s using it. Trying to make the biggest kerfuffle possible, at the most opportune time.

        If she were an honest broker, let alone a true friend of Bernie’s, any such misperception or miscommunication could easily have been settled months ago by a single phone call or quick chat.

        Senators are nothing if not polite and careful negotiators. That this turned into a middle school spat, regardless of the original dialog, is entirely on Warren. And this fact should not so easily be overlooked by her supporters, if they’re to be taken seriously.

        Edit to add: TLDR, this is two “October Surprises” (primary edition) to happen in one week. And those don’t just happen by themselves.

        Jesse #Ventura2020 volunteers needed
        https://peopleforjesse.com/

        • #252224
          whispers
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          • Total Posts: 414

          She should have talked to Bernie before hand and get the issue resolved. I agree that she created this for her personal benefit. No doubt of it.
          If you saw her face, she was like the 6th grade mean girl who has lied about someone, the other being called on it, and she looked both slightly ashamed but then excited by how things were turning out. Mean Girl Liz. I am going to try not to focus on it anymore, but whenever I read something about it, I get disgusted with her again. She did no progressive any favors, and, I’m sorry, but I never have thought of her as a progressive, but, rather, as an opportunist. We can see now, that she probably would not have joined with Bernie to get a progressive the nomination.
          Somewhere else, persons are claiming Bernie Bros, and I a 72 year old woman, are trying to Hillarize her. She did that herself, so Clintonesque. I am tired of all this faux sexist crap. She should not have used Bernie for this stunt.

      • #252082
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,756

        @99thmonkey It’s the timing that’s damning for Warren. It doesn’t matter what was said in a private meeting over lasagna over a year ago. What matters is that Warren conspired with CNN to ambush Bernie with an allegation impossible to either prove or disprove on the merits on live television 3 weeks before the first caucus. The only possible reason for doing that was that Warren hoped she would hurt Bernie and advance her own career by doing this, which just shows she has zero political acumen. It was an amazingly stupid thing to do in 2020, though it might have worked in 1996.

        The allegation itself is so outrageous and impossible to believe that even Donald Trump said he didn’t believe Bernie would ever have said what Warren said he did. This means that Warren’s, and CNN’s and the Vichy Dems’, line of attack was doomed to fail before it was ever made, and that they were all stupid enough to believe that it would actually work.

        They all deserve to see their power slip away into the dustbins of history, and they will.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

        • #252316
          99th Monkey
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          • Total Posts: 204

          I appreciate your views re this Warren v Bernie dustup. and for the record, I don’t necessarily disagree that it was some  underhanded nefarious ambush by CNN/Warren, as you describe.   I have been accused of being naive and do occasionally tend to be overly generous in my assessment of pols.  I welcome your able tutelage on such matters.

    • #252008
      Average Gazoo
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      • Total Posts: 426

      CNN is desperate.  Cable news has terrible demos because the audience is mature but advertisers like softheaded audiences with a lifetime of “buying habits” ready to be stuffed into their minds.  There are only two reasons to own a cable news channel — 1 is to shape public opinion and the national consciousness, 2 is to make a little money.   As their audience dwindles, their influence goes with it.

      Stories about “Russian bots” and FaceBook and election meddling fit into CNN’s campaign to try and remain the scoreboard of American politics for as long as possible. They have to know their era is ending but they have no real idea what to do about it.

      Avg viewers by network in primetime: Fox 2.1 mil  MSNBC 1.9 mil  CNN 1.0 mil

      Meanwhile, for example, the latest Joe Rogan episode has racked up 4.3 mil views in 24 hours. Why isn’t Joe Rogan hosting debates?

      CNN’s audience is less than 1/300th of the population and dropping. Pretty soon we can ignore them altogether.

      Be the Change

      • #252083
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,756

        @averagegazoo If and when it comes down to Bernie vs. Donald, maybe we should try to start a movement to demand a debate hosted by Joe Rogan. Trump may even go for it since he has better ratings than any of the networks. Now that would be interesting.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #252079
      MikeW285
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      • Total Posts: 244

      I’m planning to write a letter to CNN in long-hand this weekend. I’ll be mentioning Bernard Shaw, and the idea that I bet he’s so happy he retired from CNN before they became propagandists for the establishment. How far they have fallen…

    • #252106
      Passionate Progressive
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      • Total Posts: 2,180

      Warren (and those advising her)  are either blatantly liars and/or are very poor political strategists…..both flaws are disquallifying….I keep wondering what she was promised – as a cabinet secretary or veep….

      I believe equities in Biden are shrinking and investments (per NH establishment endorsements) are being made in the Mayo…..I think the fact that Kuster with her previous national campaign experience has come out for Buttigieg and the role NH plays in selecting a Democratic Presidential candidate is a signal that NH is perhaps a Waterloo moment.    Warren and Biden equities are down while Sanders and Buttigieg are up.

      The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

      • #252115
        glinda
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        • Total Posts: 800

        I think Warren has closely aligned her self with the success of Biden. I believe part of Biden’s high numbers,  which seems absurd to me given his record, overall lackluster debate performances and rally attendance, is due to the whole “Biden investigation ” and impeachment issue. Many regular Democrats may see Biden perhaps as persecuted or attacked by POTUS in also an unethical and illegal manner so basically rally behind him in a knee jerk reaction propped up by CNN and many others. Biden & Warren loose, they  (and AT&T and others) definitely suffer. Not so sure CNN itself is that worried. They might just turn more into Faux or something.

        Animals know more than we do.

        • #252127
          mrdmk
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          • Total Posts: 1,888

          @glinda

          My observations tell me, many people who use M$M televised, magazines, newspaper and radio news believe Russia has interfered with our elections among other problems. It does not matter if they are a Democrat, Republican or Independent, Russia is a major problem in their minds.

          In many books about how USA Society works, for the majority of citizens to work together they need a common enemy. It was easy to conjure up Russia hysteria with no hard facts or reason. This is a sad state of affairs.

          If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

    • #252140
      doh1304
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      • Total Posts: 1,210

      The more we go on the more I’m believing the conspiracy theory. (as opposed to the “conspiracy theory”) It’s not that Warren’s accusation has any possibility of being true, or even that anyone would believe her, but that the story was planted so that the Democratic Party would have a story to use to pretend to explain their crime against Bernie when they commit it. “Bernie lost because he was revealed to be a sexist” will be the same as saying “Bernie lost because the sun rose in the south Monday afternoon” except that people will be afraid to call bullshit. By establishing the lie in history it establishes the truthiness of the lie. It gives authority to the lie. This is a version of “tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth” The longer and the more people in “authority” tell a lie the more people believe it, but more importantly the more people are afraid to deny it.

      • #252230
        Maedhros
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        • Total Posts: 667

        I notice that there is a coordinated effort on Twitter and discussion forums to post “I believe Warren!” statements.

        There is no logical reason to believe Warren over Bernie, but by framing this in the same way as #MeToo (i.e. it is sexist to disbelieve a woman’s accusation of mistreatment) they will get a lot of piling on by non-critical thinkers – who, by the way, unfortunately make up the majority of the electorate (and nearly the entirety of the Democratic blogosphere).

        His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
        but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
        and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
        more deadly than his right had been.

    • #252157
      xyzse
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      • Total Posts: 1,515

      You know how I know that this backfired?

      It is not promoted as much on regular media sites and aggregates such as “Google News”, “MSN Homepage”, etc., as it would have otherwise, if it had some sort of legs.  It just makes CNN look like a loser.

      I tend to log in to different computers, and go in to sites in “Private Mode”, this is an attempt to lessen the amount of filters, and suggestions that sites provide using their algorithms.  This story has dropped, barely even two days after the debate.  There is not as much concentration on this, that would be happening otherwise.

      I had to actually scroll 2-3 times down the headlines before I get to a story related to this.

      Also, when you look at opinion pieces of media, they are already moving the Goal Post here.  They went from “A Woman Can’t Win the Presidency” to trying to suggest that it was probably just a misunderstanding that this is only for this instance that “A Woman Can’t Win Against Trump Since He’ll Use Sexism.”  They’re now trying to rebrand this as a minor miscommunication.

      Either way, I’ve paid attention to some articles defending Elizabeth Warren.  You know what’s funny?  It is dumb as hell.  Look at this Jezebel article linked.  Even at the end, it acknowledges that Elizabeth Warren has lied about her ethnicity, and even with what happened with her pregnancy.  However, they just say it is still important because Warren is basically showing that these are situations that happen with other women.

      I agree that such a thing happens, but it seems like Warren hijacks other people’s stories and passes it off as hers.

      Who does that remind me of, I wonder?

      • #252162
        sonofspy777
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        • Total Posts: 5,183

        You are not alone in thinking this.

        This current trend to take on the struggles of others as your own has been powerful of late. Cops pretend to have coffee cups served to them with pig slurs and Warren puts forth that the very individual who actually urged her to run for president in 2016, changed course and told her women can’t win (despite ample evidence that Sanders has a track record that is decidedly feminist). I think she said Bernie offered her a cup of coffee in their meeting that had written on it something like “Women can’t win, you’re a bitch, how’s menopause treating you, and also your hair is dry and brittle.” (It was a Starbucks Trenta cup so he could go full on misogynist because there was a lotta space to write on–thanks Starbucks, first a war on Christmas, now a war on Women).

        So I’d say this is weaponizing a status and taking the struggles of others to pretend they are your own. Stolen valor, really.

        https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/17/hijacking-the-struggles-of-others-elizabeth-warren-style/

        Bernie figured he could do more good ALIVE,
        than dead in a small plane "accident".
        I think he's right.

        Don't you?

      • #252235
        Maedhros
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        • Total Posts: 667

        RE: the Jezebel article

        There are many people online and in the media, a significant number of whom are feminists, that thrive on outrage.  When an egregious affront to the beliefs they hold dear is discovered, they respond with a vitriolic screed denouncing it.  They live for these moments.  We see this kind of behavior all the time in forum spats that escalate from discussion to battlefield.  Some people love to pick fights.

        In this context, I understand Warren’s motivation for making this attack.   She created an ‘egregious affront’ for the outrage crowd to rail against.  All the buzz on the political blogosphere is about the Warren-Sanders dust up, and it plays right into Hillary’s dirty trick book from 2016 – turn Bernie’s sterling liberal record against him.  If Kamala Harris would have done this instead of Warren, she probably would have leaked that Bernie said a “black woman couldn’t win.”

        There is no purpose in trying to talk any sense into these people.  Logic bounces off them like ping-pong balls off a battleship.  All they know is that Warren has ‘confirmed’ that their unreasoning (yet somehow righteous) anger toward Bernie is justified.  Confirmation bias is a powerful drug.

        The bottom line is that Bernie’s numbers have gone up since the debate which shows that while the outrage mavens are in a tizzy, reasonable people see it for what it was:  cynical electioneering.

        His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
        but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
        and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
        more deadly than his right had been.

        • #252247
          game meat
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,247

          For the Jezebel crowd and similar types, a lot of them just want a female president instead of a male president, and many of them just don’t don’t think too highly of men as a group in general. It’s not as if they really try to hide this.

          The ‘Sanders is a sexist stuff’ coming from that direction is straightforward psychological projection a lot of the times. They accuse Bernie of doing to Warren what they are doing to him.

          Part of it is confirmation bias, and seeing what they want to see, true. But part of it is also knowing full well it’s a bunch of bs, but playing along out of pure vindictiveness. Either way you can’t have a civil or even a heated discussion with such people. They have no interest in any of that. They’re just too hate driven.

          In general, people are sick of this crap, as the Clinton campaign abused this brand of politics far too often for too long, which is probably why it backfired this time and ended up boosting Sanders.

        • #252261
          Bernin4U
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 405

          Couple things, at least, on the Jezebel article (and similar):

          1. Is the (seemingly uncontested) fact that Bernie ran for president only after he failed to convince Warren to run, ever mentioned in these? Can an argument omit that (seemingly very relevant) point, and still be intellectually honest? What stronger case that Bernie is not sexist (nor egoist) than the fact that Bernie attempted to defer his own bid for the highest office to a woman, in an attempt to ensure the centrists would see a strong contention from the left?
          2. Regardless of whatever was said and/or perceived at their initial meeting, it’s Warren’s handling of it (clumsy at best, swiftboating at worst) that turned this into a major story. She is far from innocent of that. And to ignore this critical context is, again, intellectually dishonest.

          Jesse #Ventura2020 volunteers needed
          https://peopleforjesse.com/

          • #252285
            Maedhros
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            • Total Posts: 667

            Yeah, that’s to what the “ping-pong balls off a battleship” comment referred.

            POINT OF CLARIFICATION:   I do not oppose feminism and consider myself a feminist.  However, I expect critical thinking from anyone trying to make an argument.

             

            His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
            but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
            and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
            more deadly than his right had been.

    • #252288
      Mick063
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 571

      I have not watched CNN in years and I’m in the most likely demographic to watch them.

      "I welcome their hatred" Franklin D Roosevelt

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