COVID Rant

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    • #382980
      leftcoast mountains
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,365
      I went to the local cafe this morning this morning and a men’s church group was  inside, that was my first mistake.  Anyway, Duffy starts bitching about the protesters in New York protesting over a bar being shut down. He complained that they were spreading the virus. I said “well Duffy eating in a restaurant is one of the worst things you can do. By sitting here and eating you are protesting the orders of the county not to eat inside!” Then I found   out he went to relatives for Thanksgiving! Talk about the kettle calling the pot black!
      Then Clint walks in and I said “gee this is the second time I’ve seen you in here this week.” Well he was off work because of COVID! He was in a bar and came to find out one of the guys he was drinking with came down with covid. So he was quarantining from work but came into the cafe! He said he wasn’t that close to the guy nor was he with him very long. Rumor has it that the guy is in the hospital according to Clint. Clint is going to get tested tomorrow!
      I went to the post office. I had to stand in line because I received a letter that required a signature (just an old client issue). Anyway the guy behind me was yelling to the guy two people up about his great trip to Pyramid Lake. He was standing right behind me.
      Yesterday I took my dog to get a shot and pick up supplies. They told me that half their staff is out because they are all getting tested and don’t feel good! One of the techs told me that he was going to get tested. They also didn’t have my supplies and that I should give them 24 hour notice. Hell I told them last week! So hopefully I can pick up more today at noon.
      This morning was a cluster fuck. I feel surrounded by covid. Good Grief. I’m an idiot what’s there to say?

      vote for nobody

    • #382983
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 18,605

      Either you were exposed or you were not. Either you will get it or you will not. Maybe you already had it and are unlikely to get it again, no matter what the panic-lovers say. Fate is inexorable. Relax and enjoy your dog.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #383013
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,143

      They now have devices to pull the breath from your mouth to help reduce the risk of transmission.

      I believe in caution – but also in reasonable risk. Whatever that means 😉

    • #383071
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      Are feeling much the same way.  Honestly, nothing is 100% effective.  I get annoyed with people being stupid and not wearing masks when they can and should (grocery store, convenience store, inside the gas station, town office…) Because, frankly, refusing to do a damn thing differently – even to save lives – makes them assholes.  At least, they are certainly acting like assholes.

      If everyone did just one or two things to help out – without being fanatical about it, we’d be much better off.  Yet every day I see these foolish men who think they are bad asses… Probably be some of them in the ICU soon enough.

      No reason at all it should be so bad here.  Two reasons – utterly corrupt and generally useless leadership – and people just being reckless.

      No reason it should ever have gotten to this point.  I’m beyond frustrated.  It is like my grandfather said – there is no cure for stupid.  Every American has the constitutional right to be a moron – and millions take advantage of that right every day.

      • #383082
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,945

        “stupid”, “assholes”, “bad asses”, “morons”

        Very healthy discussion culture and respectful attitude towards fellow people there, pal. Here’s a list of some arguments against:
        https://ballotpedia.org/Arguments_against_mask_requirements_during_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020

        Feel free to address them in calm manner and trying to make rational arguments – or not. I don’t have strong, fixed opinions about them, what I feel strongest about is this:
        <h3>“Claim: Mask wearing inhibits communication and children’s social development”

        </h3>
        I’m of the opinion that our emotional health is much bigger issue than a virus, and meeting and leveling face to face and ability to read each others emotions is very important. A world without ability to see and share a warm and kind smile is not a healthy place. But I guess having this opinion makes me an asshole in your eyes?

        Aloha!

        • #383092
          incognito
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 4,405

          it certainly does.

          We have almost 300,000 DEAD Americans already. 5 MILLION COVID-19 infections.

          This is nothing to play games with. It’s DEADLY.

        • #383668
          A Simple Game
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 933

          I doubt that many parents or their children are wearing masks at home, but if they are I am also sure it is because one or more of them are at least suspected of having the virus. You want to know what would really inhibit communication and social development in a child? Losing a parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, sibling, teacher, friend, or even a friends parent or relative because we don’t want to wear masks because they hinders communication! Think it’s hard to communicate while wearing a mask, then try doing it when one of the people are in the hospital and you can’t get in to visit them or because they are in the morgue. Your argument just sounds like a selfish excuse to me.

    • #383085
      incognito
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,405

      from COVID-19. It was touch and go for a few days. He pulled through but still can’t breathe easily. He’s 50 years old. How did he get COVID-19? AT WORK.

      He’s told he’s an essential worker, so he had to work. A coworker TRUMPER REFUSED to wear a mask (and was allowed to remain at work?) and infected my brother.

      My condo maintenence man (pulled Weeds, scooped snow, did minor repairs around the complex) just died last week from COVID-19.

      This shit is EVERYWHERE. And I mean EVERYWHERE. The CDC just put out a warning today for anyone 65 and over. Quarantine. Try to never be in large groups. Wear a mask when you go out and, if possible, have your groceries delivered… which I will never do again because it cost me $25!!! to have Kroger Instacart deliver. Never again. It still has to be curbside pickup for me.

      The CDC also said the Thanksgiving spike hasn’t even started yet and THAT is going to completely overwhelm our hospitals and first responders.

      Righteous Rant, IMCPO. This shit isn’t something you take lightly.

    • #383089
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      @voltairine

      If you are living in a Country struggling with covid19 and can’t be bothered to wear a mask in public places?  That’s an issue, dude.  In order for social development to happen – you have to actually be alive.  Right now the CFR (case fatality rate) is low.  When hospitals get overwhelmed, that changes – not just due to the severity of the illness, but due to the fact that people are not behaving as any Doctor or Scientist worth their salt would recommend.

      “Feel free to address them in calm manner and trying to make rational arguments – or not. I don’t have strong, fixed opinions about them, what I feel strongest about is this:
      <h3>“Claim: Mask wearing inhibits communication and children’s social development””

      You want a rational argument?  Okay.  Fact, not claim: Not wearing masks is killing people.  Lots of people.  Over 2800 yesterday – and it looks as though today’s final numbers will be as high if not higher.  Yes, it IS spreading more quickly because people are gathering in public places without wearing masks, or face shields, or bothering to really do much of anything differently.  People are DYING for this reason, some of them are children.

      “I’m of the opinion that our emotional health is much bigger issue than a virus, and meeting and leveling face to face and ability to read each others emotions is very important. A world without ability to see and share a warm and kind smile is not a healthy place. But I guess having this opinion makes me an asshole in your eyes?”

      In the grand scheme of things, the virus will come to an end at some point.  In the grand scheme of things, I would agree that the emotional health of the overall human race is more significant.  In the short term, however… if the virus numbers double in a couple weeks, or even a month – we’ll be looking at 400 thousand cases a day in the U.S.  That will quickly overwhelm the already stressed healthcare system.  Thousands of people will be turned away, or simply left to die, because there will be NO ONE left to treat them.  A lot of them are going to die – and others are going to die – because particular people refused to take precautions.

      While I absolutely value the emotional health of the human race, I value human life more.  We don’t get a chance to learn and grow as much as we might like if we die an early death due to covid19 and general recklessness.  Does your opinion make you an asshole?  Nope.  It is just an opinion though – and the FACT of the matter is that masks save lives – and not wearing them is killing people.  That is an indisputable fact.  I have suffered with PTSD since I was 14, panic attacks, anxiety disorders and depression for almost as long.  So, yes, emotional health is significant to me.  Life is more so.

      Somehow, I don’t think wearing a mask when out in public for a few months is going to kill anyone.  Some have serious medical conditions that make them unable to do so – they can wear face shields (some of them) or isolate at home.  There are options – and there are always better options than needlessly risking someone else’s life.

      You can’t see someone’s face… does that make human contact pointless?  If so, you really should not be using the internet or message forums.  I am among the many people who do not wear their emotions on their sleeves – so if you want to know MINE, I am much better at writing them down – to talk out loud about them requires a level of trust that I simply do not have for most people.

      I can’t make anyone do anything.  What I can do is tell them when they are acting recklessly – and in this case, stupidly.

      Doctors wear masks for many hours during surgery – every single day.  Regular people in the grocery stores, pharmacies and other places are wearing them for eight hour shifts – correctly.  It is not a hard thing to do unless you are one of those rare people that has a condition which prevents you, in which case, there are other options.

      Take issue with my opinion if you like, but facts are facts.

      • #383132
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,945

        David,

        I don’t really believe in numbers – as metaphysical objects. When you really want to deny humanity, you put them in prisons and concentration camps and put numbers on them. Or treat them as numerical statistics. That’s what the accounting system called class society aka civilization does. You number things to make them less real.

        Of course I feel your pain. A drop in the ocean of all the pain. Staying open to all the pain in the world but not getting crushed by it is the simplest, easiest thing in the world, because empathy is ground of all being, as real as real gets. It’s just something heart knows and does naturally, effortlessly.

        Constructing and rationalizing all sorts of empathy barriers is where it gets complicated and difficult. Mind games. Getting entangled in all sorts of tribally exclusive narratives.

        Funny how when you make a flu all about politics and political identities, people start to turn against each other, blame games ad nauseam. Hurting and projecting hurts.

        Greatest general strike ever in India, worth solidarity and support. But did you and others make sure they all wore masks in their mass actions against the government before expressing solidarity? What is it, Indian lives don’t matter? Or the demonstrators without masks are assholes and deserve to die? When we play our mind games, it’s really hard to stay coherent and consistent, because we just ain’t. The more walls we build around us, the more confused we get.

        One thing I’ve noticed is that the settler culture really excels at hating each other, and using every pretext to hate each other even more. Numbers don’t feel and live, numbers are not real, so why should we care if numbers “die”? The problem of numbers is that there’s always too many of them to be able to really care and help, and we fool ourselves into mindgames where we feel overwhelmed by imaginary numerical, statistical, administrative and bureaucratic faux “empathy” and end up building more empathy barriers to protect our imagined insufficience and control mania growing out of fear.

        Numbers can be fun to play various games with, and I like games and fun. But not worth taking seriously, because they are not really real. Just mind games, not feels.

        Aloha!

    • #383090
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,897

      Discourteous, selfish fugs!  I put these Covid denying assholes in the same category as drunk drivers, those fugs who shoot high power rifles in the air to celebrate New Years,   and those fugs who carry assault rifles to protests.

      • #383569
        Haikugal
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 1,958

        👍

        The DNC “big tent” excludes Nina Turner but includes John Kasich.
        God, guns, and gobbledygook...we live in an aquarium of nightmares.

        • #383572
          Jan Boehmerman
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 3,897

          … where they think they’re making some kind of political statement by being “Covid denying a-holes”…

          And I’m listening to the local ambulance radio traffic as they pick up one Covid patient after another for transport to the hospital and transports from hospitals to intensive care facilities!

          They transported a 22 year old female a couple of hours ago.

    • #383115
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,441

      I had COVID about 6 months ago. It was horrible and I still have blood clots in my legs from it.

      I am NOT going to get it a 2nd time. No matter how many silly people get triggered because I take precautions. I am going to watch all those unconcerned, fearless people who just had to eat in a restaurant or get drunk in a bar as they get as sick as I was.

      Enjoy the continued health problems and shorten life expectancy, it’s going to be well worth it. I know.

    • #383118
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 4,861

      Fear – I try my very best not to let fear drive any of the decisions I make day to day. However, if I knew, as I think you did, @leftcoastmountains that a person was not practicing CDC guidelines and found myself not staying out of public places like eateries, I’d admit my mistake, too.

      It’s a mistake to think that where we are at this point after Thanksgiving is safe enough to congregate inside, I’d be a fool. This means that nobody should be doing this. And, anyone who has to stand in line at a post office and endure the behavior of what you described should cause you to turn around and LEAVE.

      I’m retired as a respiratory therapist as of July 2019 in Pennsylvania, but I already see in the neighboring state of NY that retired RTs are being called up by Cuomo. Gov Wolf may have to do the same thing. Now, I’ve kept my license active, but here we are seeing the number of numskulls violate safe protocol. They are symptomatically exposing countless people to COVID-19. This thread shows testimony.

      I’m not ready to don scrubs, get fit with headnets and gowns, double gloves with an N-95 on so that I can work 12 shifts to save your ass. It makes little sense that another respiratory therapist puts their life on the line for the incompetence and fucking assholery of idiots who can’t follow safety guidelines during this Goddamned pandemic. My life is not worth risking to treat that kind of idiot behavior AND I WILL BE DAMNED if I put my life on the line as the healthcare system entirely falls into a black hole on behalf of you assholes.

      GOT IT?

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #383120
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 4,861

      I can’t edit the fucking thing, so I’ll just say YOU are not the asshole. I am talking about all the assholes who endangered your life, which is why you were ranting.

      What I said about them… still stands.


      @leftcoastmountains

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #383121
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      @mrmickeysmom

      Would read again. 🙂

      I agree with you – and my Mother would, too.  RN for over forty years, retired a little bit before we started hearing about the virus – and thank God for that.

    • #383127
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,408

      I just get upset with people because we ask them to do so fucking little and they act like we’re kidnapping their children. All they have to do is wear a mask when they’re around others. It’s not like we’re sending them out to run through a mine field while dodging enemy fire. They’re making essentially no sacrifice at all.

    • #383193
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      @voltairine

      I don’t know the situation in India.  I have heard about the protest – but American media barely covered it.  It is a bit disturbing though, that you use that situation there to justify not wearing a mask.  You say that numbers aren’t real, that they don’t matter.  You say that “social development” is more important than wearing masks.  So that person who lost both parents to covid because someone, somewhere, didn’t wear one?  Just a number?  That teenager at the high school?  That kid at the University?  Nurses, Doctors, the young, the old, people from so many walks of life, all dead now, because someone decided that wearing a mask didn’t matter, or that covid was a hoax, or that somehow, wearing a mask would inhibit the social development of others.

      As I said – I do not know the situation in India.  I do not know how widely available masks are there, I don’t know what the conditions are.  I know what they are here and I know that almost every store in my town has plenty of masks available.  I know that people in my town will happily spend thirty bucks on beer on a Friday night, but can’t be bothered to buy and/or wear a 2 dollar mask – even if that means keeping other people safe.

      As for empathy?  I don’t think that word means what you think it means.  You will, of course, decide for yourself what you believe is real and what you believe is not real.  Me, I think those people filling hospitals and dying is pretty damn real.  Walls, social constructs, blah.  People are are suffering.  People are dying.  A lot of it is because other people aren’t wearing masks.  So if you have that option and refuse to do it, that is on you.  Justify it however you like; its not real, its just numbers, etc.  How new age of you.

      Here is an experiment in empathy for you… imagine you are an ICU nurse.  Your hospital has been nearly at capacity for weeks or even months, you are working more than 12 hours a day, most days.  You don’t have enough other nurses or Doctors to properly care for everyone, so you have to hold one hand after another as patients suffer and die.  You have to intubate your fellow nurses and Doctors, who were fine before it all started.  You get to watch children lose their parents and parents lose their children.  This is exactly what is happening in many hospitals – and it is looking to get worse, even a lot worse.  As more patients die, so too, will more medical staff.  So too, will people who have actually worn the masks and done everything within their power to be responsible.

      Those who refuse to even make an effort are part of the problem.

      • #383215
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,945

        You  are awfully sure about effectiveness of masks. Last autumn the health officials and scientists were not at all so sure, they presented large variety of opinions based on various empirical studies and their interpretations. It’s complex issue, and digging independently deep enough to be able to form educated opinion takes time and effort. I haven’t dug very deep, only seen various positions rationally argued for. What is clear to common sense and basic understanding of scientific processes is that the underlying science – in its variety of opinion – has not changed in half a year. What has changed is the political narrative that authorities want to push. The argument and reasoning given last autumn for lock downs – not the prevent spreading of the virus, which is impossible – but to slow it down enough so that health care system does not get overloaded – made sense. Now the official narratives have changed and become much more authoritarian and hostile to general well-being, pushing people against each other.

        You don’t know me and yet seem eager to jump into hostile interpretations. I can assure you that attempts to guilt trip me rub me in exactly wrong way. 🙂

        “Even make an effort” reads as pretending. I’m too old to go on pretending. Consideration in good moderation, sure. While fully accepting our epistemic limitations and variety of opinion. Dogmatic beliefs and authoritarian following that make people declare culture wars against each other and create empathy barriers that justify physical and emotional violence against “heretics” are sick.

        Aloha!

    • #383219
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,301

      @voltarine  I agree lockdowns are as harmful as neglecting to wear masks.  Due to lockdowns, suicides and deaths from other morbidities have apparently gone up – some of them labeled as Covide deaths.  These lockdowns for elementary through high school students have been the deadliest.  Just because us older folks cannot handle Covid viruses, we have forced the younger people to lockdown, miss their school lunches, go into depression, and untold other effects.  It is very clear that for the young ones, Covid is probably less harmful than the seasonal flu.  Finally, many of us, including me, have seen our pay go down by 50% or more due to lockdowns.  I also had trouble (during the first quarter of the lockdown) visiting my doctor for my other health problems

      • #383227
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,945

        I’m highly introvert “antisocial” myself, so no big issues with social distancing from my own limited perspective. But as you say, people are different with different needs, and dependence from more social interaction leads to more suicides and other deadly psychosomatic symptoms and restrictions.

        As for masks, in Nordic countries official and public opinions have been rather skeptical about benefits of public use of masks, based on WHO, Lancet etc anti-scientific herecy. No doubt because Nordic countries are as evil alt-right countries as evil can be.

        Aloha!

        • #383233
          Mr. Mickeys Mom
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 4,861

          Ref: Sweden admits it is seeing no sign of herd immunity slowing the spread of Covid-19 

          See how it works, @voltairine? First, you look up the data and then you provide the resource before you behave like a misinformed poster.

          Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

          • #383249
            Voltairine
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,945

            What data? You may be familiar with the old maxim: “Lie, Big Lie, Statistic”.

            Even if you take numbers seriously, reliable numerical measurement of complex phenomena is a high art. The more deeper you go into scientific study, the less you know. Because the deeper you go, the more glimpses you start to see about the vast complexity and the infinity of unknown unknowns. Honest scientific approach and attitude leads to epistemic humility and ethics of philosophical skepticism.

            What is the reliability of various tests? How is various data collected and what is it’s reliability? Even at best, there are always loads of assumptions and educated guesses involved.

            My deep study in foundations of mathematics, natural philosophy and various metaphysical positions has made me more and more skeptical of all the major narratives of Modernism etc., and to become more and more aware of the importance of emotional climates, shared emotional realities as the basis of society, and acute and urgent need of radical climate change in our emotional realities. If we want to heal so that our children have a chance.

            Aloha!

            • #383252
              Mr. Mickeys Mom
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 4,861

              Absurd rambles do not = old maxims.

              If you not believe health statistics, then may I suggest you start a creative speculation thread that attempts to support what you are saying without equating statistics with lies and then refer to that as “an old maxim”.  You are trying your best to misinform on a discussion that deals with health and Covid-19.

              Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

              • #383280
                Voltairine
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 1,945

                Oh I’m sure US health care statistics are 100% reliable, just like unemployment statistics, inflation statistics, etc. There can be questions only about other countries.

                Russian Covid-19 statistics are a nightmare to decode. Different numbers from various government bodies and excess mortality figures that dwarf them all make it hard to figure out how the world’s largest country has really coped.

                Thus, the version you read usually depends on the bias of the outlet, or person, making the claim. Government officials could use the lower official data, and Western media outlets and various social media information warriors, for instance, prefer to emphasize the excess deaths, even if not all of them, clearly, are down to the virus itself.

                This issue is not just plaguing Russia, but nations all around the globe. In the United Kingdom, there are two different numbers published online – deaths within 28 days of a positive test, and deaths with Covid-19 on the death certificate. In some countries, like Australia, the entire summer saw a lack of standardization between states and the federal government, with those who tested positive for the virus, but died of another cause, not being listed as a Covid-19 fatality in the official national statistics.
                https://www.rt.com/russia/508664-official-death-toll-covid/

                And thanks for the correction. I know realize that anything and everything your government says is always 101% accurate and any and all skepticism towards any government data is by definition misinformation.

                Aloha!

    • #383229
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      @voltairine

      Completely missing the point.  If my interpretations were actually hostile, my words would be more severe.  It is simple – and has been proven, repeatedly… when you wear a mask (assuming you wear it appropriately and that it doesn’t have considerable design flaws) and cough or sneeze, you are more likely to contain the droplets that hold the virus.  That isn’t really a thing to debate, its just a fact.  It means that wearing a mask, if/when you have covid makes you less likely to spread the disease.  It isn’t 100%, but it is far better than nothing.

      Correlation/causation – consider the case numbers in the U.S. – our current mask debate.  Yes, people have made it political, but it isn’t.  It is a matter of simple common sense and responsibility.  It is why there are seat belt laws, for example.  It is why public schools require (as far as I know they still do) vaccination against those illnesses we have vaccines for.  Not 100% – but the fewer that are vaccinated throughout society the more people become ill with the disease.  The fewer people who wear masks, the greater the numbers of positive cases.  No serious expert of any sort is going to say flat out “Masks don’t do anything”.  Of course, not all masks are created equally and some work better than others.  There is a reason that doctors wear them when performing surgery.

      You are basically attempting to argue against a simple fact – like 2 + 2 being four.  There is room for nuance, of course, but not all that much.  If you are claustrophobic, it makes sense to get an exemption from mask wearing.  If you have particularly bad asthma or a lung condition, fine.  There are other options – options that do not require behaving recklessly.

      I also have little interest in your guilt or lack thereof.  You seem to have an extensive vocabulary – I would suggest you look up the definition of solipsism.  Now THAT is me being hostile.  A little bit, anyway.  Just thought I’d point out the difference.

      • #383253
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,945

        Heh, I liked the solipsism quip, gave me a chuckle. When thinking and discussing idealist (and/or animistic) metaphysics, various forms and levels of solipsism is very relevant and interesting topic.  My take is that solipsism is relevant and perhaps problematic question only in terms of approaching world as static object in terms of the linguistic artifact of Subject-Object metaphysics.

        In process philosophical and asubjective approach philosophical question of solipsism does not really arise. In terms of our psychological and spiritual health and growth, solipsist anxiety (it’s not a nice trip, really) is often part of “psychotic” episodes, to use Western vocabulary. But experiencing and overcoming it can offer important life lessons.

        As for the holistic big picture in relation to the pandemic and polarizing views related to it, there’s also this aspect:
        https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/masks-globes-wipes-creating-garbage-1.5600870

        Aloha!

    • #383258
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      Metaphysics and philosophy and how they can or might be applied here might be an interesting study or debate.  I am currently more concerned with the more simple and pragmatic.  My town has 5 ICU beds.  One or two of them are usually occupied.

      Given the dramatic rise in case numbers, it is highly likely that we will shortly have more critical patients than every hospital, ICU bed and medical professional here can handle.  That is the urgent issue for me, when it comes to mask wearing.

      It won’t eliminate every case, but it would be far more effective than doing nothing.  If we consider that we presently have over 200,000 new cases a day in the U.S. – and that it is quite likely that, without action taken, that number will double by the end of this month…

      There are few alive today who can even conceive of what it would look like when it reaches extremes.  Bodies pile up from the virus and any other medical issue, not enough space to store them safely or enough people to move them.  Dead bodies being left to rot creates additional medical issues, more get sick.

      If wearing masks can reduce this threat, then it is very basic common sense to wear them.  All evidence suggests that they can – when properly designed and worn, of course.

      The environmental issue is yet another disaster long in the making.

      I think the disaster we currently face here – and the greater disasters to come (if we do not shift course as regards several things) is being vastly underestimated.

      That said, I can be neurotic at the best of times and may be wrong.  Could be it won’t be as bad as I fear.  Time will tell.

      • #383271
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,945

        Back to general strike in India, which is not unrelated to metaphysics and philosophy either and holistic approach to whole issue. Jimmy Dore talks about and has also some footage.

        Pandemic myopia can be also easily translated – and of course has been done so already – into demand to put revolution on hold “until” (if ever, wink wink) the pandemia is over, and people can have their revolution orderly protest in responsible and acceptable manner without any danger to public health.

        Discussion here on JPR is mostly extremely US-centered, a form of nationalist myopia and high degree of nationalist solipsism by nationalist super-ego. Meanwhile, world revolves around USA less and less, though the shift is very gradual. Socialism is internationalist, and even Bernie joined the new Progressive International which is now initiating radical activism, starting from global solidarity campaign with Amazon workers in US and elsewhere. Not blame gaming or guilt tripping, just curious for the lack of attention to that by JPR.

        Aloha!

    • #383284
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,301

      @MMM @voltairine

      It has been increasingly hard to believe any of the data that is out there.  See this story put out by John Hopkins University, one of the prime Covid-19 cases and death trackers, funded mostly by us the taxpayers.  This story was withdrawn after they put it out.  Not sure why.  Could it be because a large part of their tracking funding is premised on the deadliness of the epidemic?

      https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19/

      • #383304
        Mr. Mickeys Mom
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 4,861

        Just read it.

        So, tell me again how it’s “getting harder and harder to believe” the data collected this year about Covid-19, again? Exactly how is it “harder and harder”?

        Long term sequela from Covid-19 virus does not mainly effect the elderly, who’s age group would naturally have a higher incidence of co-morbidities in their medical history. We also have a lot of middle aged and younger patients with co-morbidities who are affected by this disease, which is spread from those infected, but who are asymptomatic. Those facts appear in my daily updates of Medscape (www.medscape.com), including today’s update as to how some Covid-19 patients are now being sent home because staff is needed for critical care beds OF the patients with Covid-19 respiratory failure.

        This pandemic is using up the assets being allocated to its management. Make your point about the data that disavows that, because this is beginning to get on my nerves. You don’t understand what the pandemic is doing to health practitioners and neither does @voltairane, or you wouldn’t be providing this amount of fucking nonsense as to how we all are being lied to about the data of this pandemic and therefore, the need to use precaution in spreading it, @salemcourt.

        Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #383316
      Voltairine
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,945

      A Canadian woman, Nancy Russel, was as healthy as a 90 year old could be.

      But she chose to die rather than go through another lockdown at her nursing home, and the isolation which comes with it.

      Canada does not require a terminal illness in order to qualify for medically assisted suicide. But still, the first time Nancy applied she was denied.

      But the second time she asked to die, “more concrete medical health issues” had developed, and she was approved.

      Nancy was allowed to die surrounded by family, singing a song she chose, instead of alone and depressed.
      https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/governor-wants-kids-to-rat-out-their-parents-covid-violations-29614/

      Aloha!

    • #383485
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,301

      @Mom  You think the data provided by scientist at John Hopkins University is wrong.  Or is it just some scientist?

    • #383494
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,798

      @salemcourt

      I followed the link – what do you mean about the story being withdrawn?  It was taken down from the website, but is still available in PDF format.  Here: https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19

      Briand’s study should not be used exclusively in understanding the impact of COVID-19, but should be taken in context with the countless other data published by Hopkins, the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). 

      As assistant director for the Master’s in Applied Economics program at Hopkins, Briand is neither a medical professional nor a disease researcher. At her talk, she herself stated that more research and data are needed to understand the effects of COVID-19 in the U.S.”

      And further:

      Briand was quoted in the article as saying, “All of this points to no evidence that COVID-19 created any excess deaths. Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers.” This claim is incorrect and does not take into account the spike in raw death count from all causes compared to previous years. According to the CDC, there have been almost 300,000 excess deaths due to COVID-19. Additionally, Briand presented data of total U.S. deaths in comparison to COVID-19-related deaths as a proportion percentage, which trivializes the repercussions of the pandemic. This evidence does not disprove the severity of COVID-19; an increase in excess deaths is not represented in these proportionalities because they are offered as percentages, not raw numbers.”

      Looks to me like Briand was not a professional and was making conclusions that were inaccurate.  Briand is neither a medical professional nor a disease researcher.  She is, according to the site: assistant director for the Master’s in Applied Economics program at Hopkins

      So, not a scientist.  Looks like John Hopkins University made the right call.  As far as I can tell, the corrected data provided is accurate, the initial theory by someone who had no business drawing medical conclusions for a University was inaccurate.

    • #383580
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,092

      @davidthegnome:

      It is utterly useless to explain to a libertarian that s/he as

      a member of the society has a responsibility toward the

      community. Remember how Ron Paul got a huge applause

      after he said that we should let uninsured people die? The

      reason why the asian countries are more successful in their

      Covid containment is their commitment to the community.

      The American attitude allows for that only in very small

      towns, where everybody knows everyone else. Generally

      though a sort of almost extreme individualism is the rule,

      especially when there is a tremendous distrust of the

      government, deserved or not. Reagan appealed to that

      attitude by claiming that “government is not the solution,

      it is the problem”.This was exactly the opposite thought

      from JFK. The biblical question comes to mind:”Am I

      my brother’s keeper?” Many would answer negatively

      unfortunately.

    • #383617
      snot
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,116

      I’ve come to believe that most people are much stupider and more irrational than I ever imagined possible.  Even trying to talk with my favorite, liberally-oriented friends has been extremely frustrating – on the one hand, they’ve erred to the other extreme, with one gal in her 30’s with no comorbidities obsessing anxiously over Covid to the point of being unable to get a good night sleep for weeks; yet on the other hand remaining stubbornly, incomprehensibly head-in-sand about the historically proven dangers of such developments as mass surveillance and censorship.

      So I certainly don’t try to argue with anti-or reluctant maskers.  But I do try to very politely but persistently ask them to keep their distance.  And so far I’ve been lucky that they’ve sort of complied… but again, the stupid; even half the people who are supposedly trying to comply can’t seem to grasp what 6′ looks like, or understand that it’s 360º around you, not just the 6′ in front of your face.

      Destruction is easy; creation is hard, but more interesting.

    • #383798
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,418

      ” “Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers.” This claim is incorrect and does not take into account the spike in raw death count from all causes compared to previous years”

      When I first read the total death rate had not gone up, but COVID-19 killed them before whatever else wrong with them had a chance to kill them, I knew I was reading bullshit.
      For one, reality does not work that way. People have been known to live for years with a deadly cancer that kills other in months. So how can the death rate stay the same when you add a new way to die? It can’t.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
      Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
      Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

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