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  • Judi Lynn (4425 posts)
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    Cuban Health Experts to Help Poor Communities in Chicago

    Cuban Health Experts to Help Poor Communities in Chicago

     

     

     
    Washington, Jan 11 (Prensa Latina) Cuban health experts will work with local specialists in assessing health care for vulnerable communities and limited resources in the American city of Chicago, the island”s diplomatic sources stated.

     

     

    jwirr, OzoneTom, Spanishprof27 and 7 othersxynthee, Haikugal, Enthusiast, Peace Patriot, Pastiche, Lynetta, libodem like this

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    • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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      1. I dunno. There's something about this that rubs me the wrong way.

      Maybe I’m overthinking it.

      • libodem (985 posts)
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        2. We could learn something from Commies

        About humanity? Or that our medical infrastructure is worse than 3rd world?

        • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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          3. they're not doing anything ….

          “assessing health care for vulnerable residents”

           

          aside from whatever bullshit research they’re working on, why do the Cubans look better dressed than americans and why do we need Cubans to come over and “assess health care” and is there a quid in the pro quo?

          our medical infrastructure is fantastic, and better than most of cubas I’d bet.  it’s just for profit.

          but the infrastructure isn’t the problem — it’s the inequality.

          • newsjunkie (427 posts)
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            4. you're kidding, right?

            Cuban’s looked better dressed – guess that depends which pictures you’re looking at. And yes, there is a pride there that obviously does not exist in the halls of Wallmart.

            And the title of the article – perhaps it is what is mis-leading you – but getting some to and fro can only be good for the US. Cuba is internationally recognized as leaders in health care. You didn’t expect a détente to happen in say, manufacturing?

            Or I missed your sarcasm altogether, in which case I apologize!

            • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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              5. they're not doing anything — just more bullshit "assessing"

              we already have plenty of folks who will be happy to “assess” if they get their price.

              might help to have some folks who would actually “treat” — without a price

              yes, they’re better dressed than at least half the population where I am — they look like the typical self-satisfied upper middle class everywhere — self-satisfied and devoted to their important “assessing” — such kind people surely they will have their reward here on earth

              the actual people however will have to wait and have theirs in heaven

              which makes me sad for cuba — so soon so easily they come west

              the only game in town it increasingly seems

              • newsjunkie (427 posts)
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                11. so soon they easily come west?

                They’ve been easily going all over the world except the US. So now that they are able to help where you are – I just don’t get your upset. Those doctors often don’t get paid for months when they work abroad – especially in countries (most?) where the US has sanction agreements and IMF understandings. Maybe you are worried they will stay? Many do. And many Americans take advantage of the free University in Cuba and bring their medical skills back home.

                Why the fashion hang-up?

                disclaimer – I am Canadian and have nothing but respect for the social programs Cuba has managed to provide for their people despite all efforts to economically strangle them. Maybe the good looking Cubans are working at the Canadian Bombardier sea-doo factory? ;)  Was there recently – the French and Germans have moved in. Keep on being jerks and there’s gonna be nothing left for the US except the goodwill of medical help.

                • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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                  12. they're not treating anyone — just "assessing" in some joint academic

                  research, and I doubt it’s for the love.  they’re sleeping, eating and ironing their nice clothes somewhere, which is more than a lot of americans are doing.  it’s below zero with snow here and we have people sleeping on the streets.

                  what the fuck is there to “assess”?

                  people “assess need” and “do studies” to buy time in preparation for not doing shit

                  the story of the ptb in Chicago (including Obama) forever

                  if we were using resources properly why would the richest country in the world need some Cubans to come and ‘assess’ anything?  just another waste of resources and I doubt it has much to do with what posters are so (naively imo) eager to read into whats happening

                   

                  • newsjunkie (427 posts)
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                    13. the richest country in the world?

                    Yes, but the distribution of that wealth is and has always been screwed. Why not start with reparations for all the slaves and compensation for stolen land. Then – the riches would all still be there. It’s only ‘them’ that are telling you it is impossible. And then you’d have all the freely educated doctors you need to assess their asses off

                    • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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                      14. of course the distribution is skewed: it's still the richest fucking country

                      in the world, and in history.

                      why do we need Cubans to “assess” here?  they’re not treating anyone, just giving “us” some theoretically good ideas about what to do about our “problem”

                      If our “experts” don’t understand what our “problem” really is and what needs to be done already, knowing that this is the richest country in the world and in history, I’d say they’re willfully blind.  Which they are.

                      And if these Cuban “experts” don’t get it too, that this is just an exercise in distraction, likely with other interests involved on everyone’s part, then they’re willfully blind as well.

                      And that you think the ‘problem’ is just a matter of paying reparations or getting some free doctors tells me you haven’t been to the heart of the matter yet.

                       

                      • jwirr (2937 posts)
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                        17. Maybe we need Cuban's to assess because they at least understand how to get

                        healthcare to people who cannot afford it. If you are going in to assist a group of people you first assess the situation to determine exactly what kind of help is really needed.

                      • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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                        18. "we" also "understand". "we" just don't want to do it, is the fundamental

                        road block.

                      • jwirr (2937 posts)
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                        20. Of course. Getting around that "don't want to do it" is the hard part. I have

                        also been part of studies that were out to prove their own point – that it is the fault of the poor that they do not have any healthcare – they should just set money aside for these things. They never explain where that money is coming from.

                      • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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                        28. getting around "they don't want to do it" is the ONLY part that matters.

          • Enthusiast (6570 posts)
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            15. Maybe the Cubans will point out that inequality is the problem.

            It isn’t as if the problems with US health care gets enough attention.

            "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church
            • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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              19. no need to point it out — its already quite well known, with lots of folks

              pointing it out regularly.

              those with the power to make it happen don’t want to do it.

          • libodem (985 posts)
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            21. Yep

            3rd World medical care. Yikes, those Commies, with their Socialized Medicine, will show us up

            This reminds me of the free big medical exbos they set up at a fairgrounds, where thousands of poor que up for basic health care and dentistry.

            If you aren’t rich you fall through the cracks in America.

          • Judi Lynn (4425 posts)
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            23. Their clothes? I would imagine they got help with that, as it's warm in most of

            Cuba, apart from the mountains.

            How would you know what they are “assessing?”  Cuba has a remarkable system, with a clinic within walking distance from every house in urban areas.  There is a doctor, a nurse in residence upstairs 24/7 at each clinic, at least one of each, they handle all the families in their small areas, they make housecalls, they keep records for the entire families, they provide innoculations for all Cubans from infancy, Cubans have a very low incident of infant mortality, lower than the US, they provide total maternal care, Cubans live at least as long as US citizens, (I haven’t checked the UN stats for a few years, they could easily be even better by now) they practice active preventative care, and Cubans are very, VERY healthy, as well as being extremely well educated.

            Their stats  outpace the records of the other countries of the Americas. They’ve done it the hard way, under the economic war conditions imposed upon them by the US in the longest embargo in human history.

            Don’t worry too much about their clothes. There is no doubt at all the gov’t or sponsors in this country pitched in for them and got them clothes they could wear in a cold climate for the period they would be here. You really shouldn’t hold it against them that they aren’t wearing feed sacks with ropes around the middle for belts, and sporting sandals made of used tires.

            • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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              25. It wasn't their clothes per se, but their generally UMC presentation

              generally I noticed.

              I know they’re just “assessing” because that’s what the article says:

              Washington, Jan 11 (Prensa Latina) Cuban health experts will work with local specialists in assessing health care for vulnerable communities and limited resources…part of a collaboration project between the University of Illinois and the Ministry of Public Health of the Caribbean nation…. The aim is to propose actions that contribute to improve health indicators of the communities included in the project…based on the possibilities to improve the population health in both countries.

              We hope to work with Cuban specialists to identify the medical practices that have worked for them, while they could learn about our methods and experiences, Dr. Robert A. Winn, Associate Vice Chancellor for Community Health Practices and Director of the University of Illinois Cancer Center said.

              You seem to have missed the rest of my point, which was: the US have plenty of folks who could do (AND HAVE DONE) the same kind of  ‘assessment’.  It’s not that the US doesn’t know how to better deliver health care to the poor or to the population generally at lower cost:  it’s that THEY DON’T WANT TO.  All the “assessment” in the world won’t change the basic reality.  The US government and its funders DON’T WANT TO.  Thus my take is that this is a bullshit exercise with other motives.

              I’m well aware of the data on Cuban health, the embargo and its effects, etc; I wonder if you’re aware that Cuban health data was similarly advanced pre-revolution.  But thank you for the fashion show.

               

              • Judi Lynn (4425 posts)
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                26. The Spanish-descended people clearly did well in Cuba, but the majority

                of Cubans are black, and mixed ancestry, Cuba having been a plantation colony for ages after they destroyed the native Cubans by making slaves of them until they either committed suicide or dropped from illness or being depleted from abuse, and only a few remnants made it safely into the mountains, where they remain.

                The enormous poor majority had internal parasites, had open sewers flowing in ditches, no running water, no electricity, nothing.  No sanitation whatsoever. They had to get a written letter from the landowners to admit them to see a doctor if they could find a way to afford it.

                The workers only had seasonal work, no other means of income, so they were screwed between seasons. They tried planting vegetables for themselves along the sides of roads, but the government tore up their efforts. Those  people were not very healthy at all, clearly.

                After the revolution, teachers spread out and moved through the country, helping the campesinos learn to read by lantern light after they finished their work in the fields.

                The revolution started the process of getting change made for the masses. They had such a long distance to overcome for the poor.  All priorities were fixed upon creating food, shelter, health, education for everyone concerned.

                I’ve never seen any written material claiming the standard of living for all Cubans was as it is today, except for certain message boards over the years, starting with CNN’s old system, over 17 years ago.  which was well stocked with South Florida Cubans.

                • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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                  27. I don't have the data anymore, since I've been following cuba for 40

                  years, but here’s a quick google:

                  Abstract

                  Cuba from 1900 to 1959 raised life expectancy and reduced infant mortality faster than any other Latin American country for which data are available. It accomplished this feat despite being ruled by a series of governments best known for personalism, patronage, corruption, mismanagement, toadying to US business interests, and neglect, at best, of the exploited and downtrodden. To make matters worse, Cuba from 1900 to 1959 experienced slow economic growth, high income inequality, inadequate provision of safe water and sanitation, a scarcity of rural health facilities and health personnel, and rampant corruption and maladministration, not least in the health sector. How, then, did Cuba manage to reduce premature mortality so rapidly? Our answer highlights Cuba’s bountiful supply of physicians along with features of the country’s geography, social structure, and class organization that seem to have made made health care more accessible to the poor than in many other Latin American countries.

                  http://lasa.international.pitt.edu/Lasa2003/McGuireJames.pdf
                  If memory serves, the gap between cuba and the rest of latin America (and thus, much of the old ‘third world’) has existed for many decades, and pre-dates castro.  same stats: longevity, maternal/birth measures

                   

    • hopemountain (1373 posts)
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      6. Cuba has hosted Medical Students from all over the

      world – and, particularly the U.S. in their prestigious medical schools. For many north americans and south americans, Cuban medical schools are affordable (free for some) and offer exceptional training. Chicago will be benefiting from Cuban trained doctors who may not all be Cuban citizens, but rather, from many other countries including the U.S..

      for more info – do a search – many articles/references.

      "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth .... "a nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. then, its finished; no matter how brave its warriors." - cheyenne
      • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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        7. I know at least as much about it as you do, since i've been interested in

        cuba since the 60s and a pretty decent researcher.

        and I’m really sick of people telling me to “research” because they don’t know what I’m talking about and haven’t caught on to the game yet

        • hopemountain (1373 posts)
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          8. there were several articles – pbs, etc.

          too many from which to choose – so i leave it to you to choose. my suggestion is not meant to offend.

          i have 2 colleagues who went to medical school in cuba in the early to mid 2000’s which is how i know about them.

          "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth .... "a nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. then, its finished; no matter how brave its warriors." - cheyenne
          • FanBoy (7039 posts)
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            9. sorry i am probably on edge and testy

            fear does that

            thank you for your kindness and cool head

            • hopemountain (1373 posts)
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              10. sure. these are edgy times

              i am testy with some posters on here, too. everything is upside down and every which way.

              "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth .... "a nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. then, its finished; no matter how brave its warriors." - cheyenne
          • Judi Lynn (4425 posts)
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            22. Didn't see this thread until tonight, 1-17. Am delighted to hear you know two!

            That would be absolutely amazing.

            I’ve been reading about them since 2000, at least, always so interested in finding out more.

            Their approach to medicine truly brings out those who are interested in bringing health to those who truly need, not bringing wealth to themselves. The chaff does get separated from the wheat with this method, and those who stay in medicine are damned dedicated, and respected world-wide.

            Their domestic medical system is stunning, celebrated, effective, amazing. They get so much action with such a small budget, and out pace the US in several vital areas. They have accomplished this with a severe handicap: the US embargo on Cuba since the 1960’s, which has extraterritorial reach, barring the sale of life-saving machinery to Cuba from other foreign countries if these machines, cancer diagnostic, treatment, dialysis machinery, etc., etc., etc. contain any components registered in the US.

            It has been a nightmare US citizens have been completely unaware of, condemning an entire country of human beings to have to improvise so much they desperately need, or meet even more punishment from the country to the north who won’t allow them to live in peace until they surrender and accept the same filthy system back in place the US preferred, as violent, murderous, corrupt, racist as it was when it  caused the last Revolution there and sent the monsters scrambling for the States.

            You are the first person I’ve seen on a message board who could say personally knows two people who took that adventure, opportunity and challenge and went for it.

            Absolutely cool, for goodness’ sake.

            • hopemountain (1373 posts)
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              24. thank you – one of their

              exchange “instructor” mentors is also a dear friend.

              an aspect of the program i value, personally, is the grassroots or commitment to community the students develop. for many, it is about service to community that leads them to medicine – or perhaps, even, the other way around.

              "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth .... "a nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. then, its finished; no matter how brave its warriors." - cheyenne
    • jwirr (2937 posts)
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      16. Just in Chicago? When Trump and his gang get done with us we are going to need

      them everywhere.