DC Rage : More Coming … – Richard Wolff

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    • #392255
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #392263
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,914

      He is 100% correct. The sleeping giant of the working class has awakened, but it doesn’t know what is real and what isn’t. It only knows that it is hurting. It is the job of those of us on the left to keep pointing at the real causes of that pain, which ultimately come from the inherently unequal and unjust system called capitalism.

      If we fail, we really are looking at real Fascism in just a few short years. Both the Democratic and Republican parties, and their apologists, are part of the problem, not the solution. They have both already failed, and I think most Americans know that, if not most voters.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #392270
        HassleCat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 7,568

        Progressives will have trouble gaining traction with any of the people we saw yesterday. They are conditioned to believe fascism and race war are the answers to their problems. They believe they are victims of the swamp, of a departure from conservative Christianity, of the gay agenda, the black agenda, the Muslim agenda. They know someone has cheated them, but they don’t know who cheated them, or even what they got cheated out of. They are susceptible to the “strong leader” appeal of Trump and others like him. A progressive appeal requires thinking. An authoritarian appeal rejects thinking. Guess which one wins? It’s not impossible. Over a hundred years ago we had a strong progressive movement that appealed to working class people by promising to help them fight the banks, the railroads, and the newspapers. It captured the attention of a broad spectrum of people, and included many Republicans.

        • #392279
          ThouArtThat
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 4,544

          @hasslecat

          Hi hc,

          Following this thought stream … Since we are all “Victims of the Swamp” and half the population is beyond reasoning with, the outcome is clear – more protest, more riot, more insurrection and possibly civil war or revolution.  And since American citizens long ago lost the ability to impact “The Swamp”, we will all be impacted by the 1% and their decisions.  We will see how their story and our story unfolds one way or another.

          TAT

          “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
          - John F. Kennedy

          "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
          - George Orwell

          "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
          - Jiddu Krishnamurti

          "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
          - Idries Shah

          "A riot is the language of the unheard."
          - Martin Luther King

        • #392286
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 21,914

          Because that’s what’s coming. By revolution I mean an overthrow of the current ruling class, or at least most of it. That doesn’t necessarily mean the institutions of the federal government itself. Back to the point, yes, the left can win, but it’s got to get its shit together fast and stop following politicians like celebrities or political parties like sports teams. Most importantly, leftists must learn to use their greatest strength–and you brought it up–which is their critical thinking skills.

          Leftists must apply those skills to hold their leaders accountable to the general interest, and to find different leaders and methods if the current ones fail. Emotional attachment to politicians, and sometimes media figures, is a recipe for political failure. If it finds the right leaders, and continues to hold those leaders’ feet to the fire, and the willingness of its people to stand their ground, then the left can win. It has happened before.

          The right can also win. Fortunately, the American right just proved that it is every bit as capable of following a celebrity politician into madness as anyone on the left. We should think about how to take advantage of this, but I mean policy-wise, not vengeance against individual rightist politicians.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

        • #392353
          Cold Mountain Trail
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 12,932

          When bernie seemed to be ‘winning’ some of the same people signed on with him.

          when trump seemed to be ‘winning’ some signed on with trump.

          a lot of folks, likely a majority, will go with whoever seems to be ‘winning’ and promises something better.

          unfortunately, more and more difficult to sort fact from fiction, and real people from actors.

           

           

      • #392382
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,428

        @ohiobarbarian

        Regarding this term “fascism”

        I find myself struggling with the differences between fascism and corporatocracy.

        One is a government openly run by representatives from a country’s major industries. (see Giovanni Gentile, ((Benito Mussolini’s chief economic advisor)) and fascism in Italy)

        The other is a government that is somewhat covertly run by the highest bidders. (see the U.S. government with special emphasis on…(oh hell, let’s be honest here), any segment from our entire history/ historic struggles with capitalism).

        I wonder how Professor Wolff would treat this topic. Well I am not him by a loooong shot but I will give it a try:

        I believe there may be a significant difference between fascism and corporatocracy.

        In our corporatocracy, individuals, countries and corporations here and overseas, with enough money…

        …can purchase from and get their needs met through our U.S. government. 

        I am not so sure that was how things worked with Italian fascism in it’s pure sense under Mussolini’s dictatorship.

        So therin is my struggle with the concept of fascism.

        Could our country become fascist without the traditional dictator or strongman? Is one even required?

        Would our various corporate masters bow down to such a thing knowing that in the end it could adversly affect their bottom line?

        It was easy for blue team supporters to claim Trump was a fascist waiting for the opportunity to become a dictator…

        …it was equally easy for red team supporters to make similar claims about Obama, (they did), and even though he is suffering from dementia, Biden will likely get that same treatment by that particular crowd.

        How interesting, both teams claimed that their opposition POTUS’s were fascists!

        Unlike Mussolini, I do not think either Obama nor Trump were their own masters.

        (Trump hardly mastered his own thoughts and emotions but that is a whole other matter)

        Now do you see my struggles with this term fascism?

        So who is correct? Red team supporters or blue team supporters?

        What truly baffles me, we at JPR support neither team!

        Is it possible that the term fascism is thrown about far too willy nilly as a description of what our government/POTUSes is/are or where they are heading, (if not stopped!!!).

        Correct me if I am mistaken here, it appears that the term may be being used as a boogyman to inspire fear among the citizenry.

        Is this deliberately? Are TPTB, using this term “fascism” because it is just one tool in their tool-kit to keep the citizenry fearful?

        Perhaps our fight with the fascist governments of WWII in Europe is still too fresh a horror in our minds.

        Thoughts?

         

    • #392287
      incognito
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,574

      He always says the right thing. And it’s true.

      The elites had better heed yesterday’s warning because if they don’t, it’s not going to be pretty. And they just might lose that power they so covet.

      How hard can it be to do the right thing? How much money does one person need for a lifetime? NOT BILLIONS.

    • #392295
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,428

      I’ve loved Richard Wolff for decades now. I can not think of any point in that history where I was in disagreement with him nor am I here.

      Before I go further, I strongly urge my fellow JPR members to click that link which you have provided because as usual, the good professor puts history which unfolds before us in an economic perspective.

      His perspective is one that all to often gets ignored because of MSM distractions and because our country is hyper-focused on a red-team vs blue team battle.

      We The People are not each other’s enemy you know.

      The real enemy is our corporatocracy. It is a form of government which sprang up naturally (IMHO), from our economic model capitalism.

      I believe that Proffessor Wolff would agree.

      I’ve posted a link below to a different pundit, one I’ve come to like equally as well as Professor Richard Wolff.

      Her name is Kim Iverson and she goes into depth with her views on why things unfolded the way they did at our capital yesterday.

      It is lengthy, she goes into other unrelated topics as her discussion moves on but for about the first 45 minutes she backs up what Wolff is saying.

      She also interestingly enough, includes doing so from the perspective of the attainability of the American Dream from her own family’s two generations of being Vietnamese immigrants.

      Some key and salient points worthy of note in Miss Iverson’s below assertions:

      The Black Lives Matter protests of last summer stem from the same thing that yesterday’s march on our capital did. (before passing judgement here, hear what she says first).

      That the Dems holding all three branches of government does not mean our citizenry will see the sweeping changes which are needed to bring us true relief from our corporatocracy. (yeah, preaching to the choir here at JPR).

      That being poor and oppressed or even having a future which appears to be heading that way can be a direct cause for revolution or terrorism.

      Miss Iverson further suggests this response is part of the human condition. Professor Wolff called it the “Awakening of the Sleeping Giant”, but did not go so far as to link it to terrorism.

      I recall where that term was used after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Did a Japanese Admiral really say that line or did Hollywood come up with it?

      At any rate, is it possible that the Sleeping Giant is being deliberately kept in a red-team/blue team fight in order to keep it from awakening again?

      I think that Miss Iverson’s most important point is something I have been shouting for since my days at SV: The citizenry must stop fighting each other.

      We are not each other’s primary enemy.

      Our primary enemy is the corporatocracy which has become our government.

      This condition will not nor can it change until We The People come together to make that change.

      Miss Iverson shows how the element of “fear” is being used to help keep the citizenry distracted.

      There is much more to see in the Kim Iverson video below, the first third deals with her views on the whys and wherefores of what went down in DC yesterday.

      The remaining two thirds, while obliquely relevant, are very worthy of a listen as well.

      (hopefully the link below goes to Kim Iverson’s “What a Day” and not some YouTube song I visited yesterday…I will fix it if needsbe asap)

      https://youtu.be/vAqsC3u2Z90

      • #392342
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,914

        Admiral Isoroku Yamato, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy, upon hearing that the Japanese declaration of war was delivered several hours after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

        There was a previous sentence: “I can think of nothing which would infuriate the Americans more.”

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #392354
      sonofspy777
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,266

      Cogent and precise analysis.

      “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
      ~Samuel Clemens

    • #392404
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,603

      The reality is that the filthy rich are crushing us. They are stealing our national wealth and Trump is a distraction. That’s why the rich picked such a stupid wanabe dicktater as Trump and Biden. The filthy rich want him to think it’s him and not their really well prepared and funded propaganda.

      It’s just one big scam so the billionaires can hide behind their puppet politicians while they rob us blind.

      Get rid of capitalism and you could get rid of most of the horrors of our political system.

       

    • #392413
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,377

      Yes, Wolff is correct, but he leaves out a few very important

      points. He leaves out the power of mis- and under information.

      Limbough ,the huge conservative radio stations and Fox are

      only one part. CNN, MSNBC, PBS, and NPR contribute to it

      in another way. Indoctrination from all of these are now decades

      old, and they have been very effective. The political system has

      been always “divide + conquer, but now the Uniparty does not

      even disguise these efforts anymore. May be the sleeping giant

      is waking up, as he says, but it is manipulated to turn itself

      against itself instead of looking to the real issues.

       

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