Diesen/Macgregor: 0:04 / 49:09 NATO crossing more red lines: From proxy war to a direct NATO-Russia war?

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    • #502358
      Passionate Progressive
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      • Total Posts: 5,657

      The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

      It takes all the technical proficiency our system can provide to make up for the woeful lack of popular support and political savvy of most of the regimes that the West has thus far sought to prop up.........Bernard Fall

    • #502368
      Babel 17
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      • Total Posts: 6,963

      They are a special interest that receives, and spends, hundreds of billions of dollars, and they’ll fight to retain their place in the global ecology, and they have allies and symbiotes.

      Ukraine can go down in flames, but it can’t be seen to go down because the MIC didn’t support it enough, or because of MIC incompetence, or corruption. And that’s something Zelenskyy should worry about, because he represents an invaluable fall guy, an invaluable cut out guy, and an invaluable martyr.

      The ideal scenario would be for him to die under mysterious circumstances, ones that definitely were untraceable to the MIC, and which left Ukraine with a successor who was seen as heroic by Ukraine, who would take orders from the West, and who could sell the proposition of coming to terms with Russia, while remaining a client of Western business interests.

      Russia gets a defanged neighbor, one with the Azov clique that had controlled Zelenskyy removed, and the West gets to collect on the huge debt Ukraine owes it by getting to take over its farmland, natural resources, trade, and debt negotiations. Zelenskyy would get mourned, but at the same time it would be made understood that his bad generalship, and not listening to Western advisors, is what lost the war for Ukraine.

      The seed for that narrative has sprouted, and is rapidly growing, with what’s happening in Bakhmut. Looks like the vast tranche of Western aid, including tanks, won’t get there in time to save Zelenskyy from looking like a failure, but instead just in time to stop Russia from advancing too far beyond their securing their Western provinces in the East of Ukraine.

      Odessa might be the real prize to be won by Russia, after it ties up all of Ukraine’s forces in an anticipation by them of assaults all up and down the line of conflict. I’ll be amazed if Russia hasn’t already infiltrated that port city, and bought off a big chunk of its security forces. With so many pro-Russian residents, a very strong assault at the city’s edges could be a signal for an uprising.

      Once landlocked, it would be to Ukraine’s government’s advantage to be able to negotiate access to it, and the Western governments would want grain to keep flowing unimpeded through it.

      Don't Kill the Whale
      Don't feed the trolls

      • #502412
        jbnw
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        Founded by Katherine the Great, and I am told there is even an accent for the Russian language in Odessa – I can’t hear it of course 🙂

    • #502405
      soryang
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      …until he drifts off into his pet ideological theory at about the 27 min mark. This has nothing to do with immigrants across an undefended US border or undermining orthodox Christian civilization. Imperialist greed is sufficient motivation for anti-Russian policies.

      惑世誣民 혹세무민

      • #502407
        Passionate Progressive
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        I agree with you about the migrant bashing….It seems that the right has to bring that out in the same way that the left always bring out, when critiquing the West, that Russia – ‘Putin’ – had other alternatives, he’s still evil, etc.,….In both cases I find it more than irritating….And the form of argument lumping so many issues together making it hard to refute them singularly.

        But about the religion – it’s possible that there just hadn’t been enough time to elaborate about throwing that in the mix…Because it seems to me that there has long been a Western fixation of defining Russia as the ‘other’ and not being ‘European’ and part of that has gone back to Christianity long being defined to the West by ROMAN Catholicism.  So in that respect, I could see Macgregor’s point.

        The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

        It takes all the technical proficiency our system can provide to make up for the woeful lack of popular support and political savvy of most of the regimes that the West has thus far sought to prop up.........Bernard Fall

        • #502409
          soryang
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          • Total Posts: 2,631

          I used to see an analyst James Jaspers, evidently a Eastern Orthodox Christian, who used to appear on crossfire from time to time discuss this subject, he made an argument similar to Macgregor, that is western decadence, homosexuality, etc., that contribute to its desire to destroy Russia, I reacted the same way. He’s an obscure pundit who is sympathetic to Russia. I followed him because he may have received a similar education to my own, except that he appears to have more grounding in eastern European culture. I don’t. I think his focus on the debates within the orthodox religious community detracts from his credibility. I would advise him this way, and Col. Macgregor, in order to make their message more effective. Just my opinion.

          If Jim or the Colonel want to talk about the rift between Ukraine and Russia based on the effect of the religious schism on each states cultural identity and nationalism, that’s fine. I think the west is simply not attuned to such esoteric (fundamentally religious) rationalizations on the etiology of US policy vis a vis Russia. To me it’s simply a distraction.

          I had a American friend of Serbian extraction warn me, many years ago, and I think rightfully so, if you want to preserve security, eschew the never ending labyrinthine grudges and vendettas of Eastern European disputes. It is simply unnecessarily dangerous to get involved. Delving into the obscure origins of these, I guess it’s something, our intelligence people and leading national security advisers of eastern European extraction think they can master or manipulate to their own liking. It’s a quagmire that leads to no good end.

          Frankly, I could care less what the Polish, Ukrainian, Serbian, Bosnian, Latvian, Lithuanian, etc., leadership thinks. I would have never bound our fate or that of western Europe (NATO) to theirs, but apparently Soros, Anne Applebaum, Victoria Nuland, Alexander Vindman, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, with their eastern European historical and cultural bias think there is some advantage to getting bogged down in these interminable disputes. So now, some little state or third rate power like Poland, with old ethnic grudges and ambitions, can start WWIII.

          惑世誣民 혹세무민

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