Do I really want a gun?

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    • #323534
      elias39
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      • Total Posts: 4,584

      I’ve never fired a gun in my life. Closest was in high school, target shooting with a pellet rifle.

      But Im seriously considering getting a shotgun for protection of my home and loved ones.

      Wife: ‘Absolutely not!”

      Daughter (not living at home) “Dad! That’s crazy”

      Would I feel more secure if I had a pump 12-guage near my front door? IDK. But part of me is saying ‘better safe than sorry’. And part of me is saying ‘Elias, you’ve been a pacifist since you were 18 years old!’

      I don’t fear my local police department. Yet. Town of 5,000, employs 10 ‘officers’. I’ve interacted with maybe 3 in my years here. A couple of speeding tickets waived (good behavior and all). Had one come into my driveway a few months ago to report that I’d apparently forgotten to license my 2 dogs. He was fine.

      2 years ago the locals – with ‘support’ from some Staties – shot and killed a man in his home a mile from my house. Long story but he was a disturbed individual who happened to be carrying a gun in his home and so died. A few years before that we had a real cowboy on the force who tried to shoot out the tires of someone running from a speeding pursuit. No kidding. He went away. Maybe he re-entered some movie he had seen in his mind and thought “Wouldn’t that be the shit!” He was a bit frayed around the edges. Anyway – point being I’m not (yet) fearful of the locals but as is the case in small communities, the State Police are often called in for backup. And those men and women I trust a little less. They don’t know the town, the citizens. They’re robotic in their dealings with people. And they worry me a little. But, ultimately, I worry about random lawlessness – break-ins in my case. From hooligans, testosterone-infused bullies since grade school. So what to do?

      Anyone here ‘armed’ at home? I’d never carry a gun outside my property. That’s not for me. But a shotgun at the door beats pepper spray or a can of wasp spray that shoots 20′. (Yes. Those are handy at present)

      IDK. I’m in real turmoil today and I need some input from you folks who may have a steadier mind right now. Thanks.

       

    • #323541
      Gryneos
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      • Total Posts: 843

      Although I have had a wrist-rocket slingshot in the past. It works well with ice-cubes and frozen grapes for shot.

      If I didn’t live in an apartment, I would probably instead invest in a couple of large Tesla coils:

       

      "Cake or death?"

    • #323548
      bazukhov
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      • Total Posts: 2,605

      After I got out I decided that I might like hunting so I bought a .303 Enfield Jungle Carbine from a catalogue for $30.

      We went out to the desert to hunt.   I managed to bump off a jack rabbit.   I went to see what I had done.

      Shortly thereafter I gave the rifle to friend.

      Which makes it about 50 years since I’ve fired one or felt the need to have one.

      There is no safety in the cosmos.  Alan Watts

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #323559
      HalfCentury Man
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      • Total Posts: 726

      One shotgun vs a cadre of police equals suicide.

      If you decide to get one. As a first time owner, go for one both simple and reliable. I’d recommend a lockable storage unit for both weapon and ammo. Get the cleaning equipment, ear protection, training, and some practice.

      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

      John F. Kennedy: 13 March 1962.

    • #323560
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 2,987
    • #323563
      Joe Shlabotnik
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 762

      Much more satisfying. And if you’re on a budget, you already have the wasp spray, so get creative!

      ~ All good things are Wild and Free ~

    • #323565
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,474

      You never want a weapon unless you are prepared to use it, and you should never point it at something you are not prepared to shoot – or in this case, someone you are not prepared to kill.

      I have family antiques from parents who hunted decades ago, but I cannot imagine having to live with myself after killing someone else.

    • #323637
      HassleCat
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      • Total Posts: 3,213

      If I lived in a place where house burglaries were common, I would have a shotgun. If somebody broke into my house and threatened me or my family, I would kill that person. And it wouldn’t bother me. Those who break into houses understand perfectly well that they may encounter an armed homeowner who will kill them. So shooting an intruder is just part of the larger scheme of things in our violent society. You are not making society any more or less violent by refusing to shoot them and allowing them to shoot you, or rape you, or whatever they have in mind. Just keep in mind that many family members are killed because they came home at 2:00 AM and grandpa was too groggy to realize his drunk granddaughter wasn’t a burglar. Personally, I wouldn’t do it. If I lived somewhere I needed a gun, I would move somewhere I didn’t need a gun. Or I would organize the neighbors to scare the burglars away. If I had to get a shotgun as a last resort, I would do so fully expecting to kill someone. It’s sad that we live in a country where we have to make such choices.

    • #323641
      Pam2
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      • Total Posts: 5,369

      Gun could be stolen and used in a crime. Gun could be found by someone who harms themself or shoots someone else accidently.  You are handy around the house. Maybe you could rig up a booby trap of some kind in the yard instead.

       

       

       

    • #323647
      Bernin4U
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      • Total Posts: 398

      Sounds like you’ve answered your own question. Far from any expert, but pretty sure that would be immensely irresponsible.

      (And who gets speeding tickets waived? Around here, it seems to be a gigantic profit center for them. And the better the weather and clearer the road (iow, safer to drive), the more eager they seem to be. The chickensh*ts.)

       

      Sign the petition to draft Jesse #Ventura2020
      https://peopleforjesse.com/

      Write him in for the WA primary
      https://greenpartywashington.org/2020/05/29/gpwa-ballot-for-presidential-nominee-and-state-officers/

    • #323649
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 13,671

      They are just as deadly as guns, more accurate within their range, cost a lot less, are fun to shoot, and force you to take the time to consider whether you really want to shoot someone before you point and pull the trigger.

      And they’re quiet!

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #323652
      Pam2
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      • Total Posts: 5,369
    • #323661
      mrdmk
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      • Total Posts: 1,692

      Upon the purchase of your first gun, your chances of becoming a victim of a crime with a gun just went up eighty percent. Think about that.

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

    • #323690
      EvilLurker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 11

      I currently have some guns and ammo in my home that I recently inherited from my dad. My wife is also in the ‘absolutely not’ camp when it comes to keeping them. I’m waiting for approval on a pistol permit which isn’t easy in the NY county I live in, even for someone with a clean record like myself. My dad had already signed the forms that would allow me to be co-owner of the handguns but without the permit I cannot legally own them.

      I always thought my dad was a little extreme with his dooms day prep paranoia. No, he was not an right-ring nut job. In fact he was a lifelong blue collar Democrat. Whether irrational or not, he always felt the need to be prepared. He was also an avid ham radio operator. I would say why do you need a ham radio when we have the internet and cell phones? He would say how are you going to communicate in a crisis when there is no internet or cell service? Anyway, I sold all his radio gear last year. Maybe I should have kept one of the hand-held radios. As far as the guns, I don’t fear someone breaking into my house while it’s occupied. It’s something that almost never happens around here. The guns would be pretty useless in that situation. My house would be completely looted by time I could get them unlocked and loaded. I have some experience with them as a teenager going to the range with my dad but I’m far from being competent.

    • #323693
      elias39
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      • Total Posts: 4,584

      I truly appreciate the input and I take it all to heart. Paranoia will destroy ya.

    • #323695
      a little weird
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 626

      Probably would be good for you to go try out shooting and see what you think about it.  I’m not a fan of shotguns – the ones I’ve shot have been too heavy for me.

      I don’t own a gun but I’m comfortable shooting my dad’s guns.  The main reason I don’t own one is because I get depressed from time to time and I’m afraid I might do myself in one day when I’m in a dark place.  But even if that’s not a concern, I think they are a big responsibility so give it a lot of thought.

    • #323730
      eridani
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      • Total Posts: 5,534

      eom

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

    • #323769
      ravensong
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,075

      and, like @eridani wrote, practice with your firearms until you are a decent or great shot, depending on your talent level.

      The better armed the left is for our defense against violent fascist aggressors, the less likely the violent, hostile, and aggressive authoritarian fascist right will be to launch attacks on innocent Americans, the Constitution, and what is left of representative democracy.

      If the ratfuckers know they will meet armed resistance when you protect yourself, and your family from them when they kick the door to your home in order to install Trump as dictator, they will have second thoughts about kicking our doors in and killing and enslaving us for the glory of Trump and authoritarian christo-fascism.

      An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure when it comes to doing everything we possibly can protect our land and people from a violent fascist attempt at taking over our country.

      Walk softly, and carry a big stick.

      And may you never be forced to use your stick.

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #323775
      ArtfromArk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 845

      People aren’t armed with guns. There are some creeepy people here, to be sure, but so far (keeping my fingers crossed), they’ve left

      most of us alone. Nevertheless, I just got a circular from my city warning people to beware of scams

      related to the corona virus. God, how I’m beginning to hate this corona virus shitt.

    • #323983
      Rocky
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 153

      There are some things to consider that may aid your decision making. What threats concern you? Are crimes and break-ins an issue in your town and more specifically, your neighborhood? How long would it take for the police to respond to your 911 call? Do you have an escape route to get outside quickly if a threat is approaching? If not, do you have a room with a sturdy door and lock you would be safe to hide in? Is a surprise attack from a right wing militia a possibility?

      If you are not comfortable with the answers to some of these questions a home defense weapon may be justified. But you really need to get proper training and practice with your weapon to stay proficient. And when you leave home you must be able to lock up the gun in a secure location, preferably a safe.

      The best home defense begins with a charged cellphone turned on and ready to go close by, especially when you go to bed. Personally, I have my phone at the ready……. and a fully loaded 12 ga. Mossberg 500 with an 18” barrel nearby. But I live in a semi-rural area and the fuzz would take at least 15 minutes to get to us. I’ve been around guns all my life so I’m comfortable with them. We also have a sliding glass door to the outside allowing me to get my wife, cellphone and gun and get out of there if possible.

      I know I would not kill somebody who wants my tv. But if they intend harm to my wife or myself, I have no problem using deadly force to stop the threat.  The problem is you don’t always know their intentions. That’s when the decision making gets tough. Remember, if  you decide to take someone down, the police and district attorney will ask if you had any other alternatives available to avoid the shooting. My research on that subject is if you shoot someone inside your home, and you tell the authorities you feared for your life, you’ll be ok. They may make it uncomfortable for you until you are cleared.

      “I wouldn't be a grumpy old man if people would stop pissin' me off"

    • #324001
      ozoneman
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      • Total Posts: 300

      Like you, I’ve never owned a fire arm. It goes against my pacifist philosophy. I have also lived in safe states, NY, Vermont.

      In other areas of the country, it may warrant having fire arms in easy reach.

      I also understand somewhat how libertarians feel about guns. It would be unfortunate to be caught flat footed if/when the fascist military takes over.

    • #324112
      carrotguy
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      • Total Posts: 453
    • #324145
      PADemD
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      • Total Posts: 1,868

      Two years ago, a second amendment guy at the local farm show came over to our Democratic Party table to argue gun rights.  I started asking him questions like, do you think mentally ill people should be able to have a gun and do you remember the local man who suffered from dementia and shot and killed his own son because he thought there was a burglar at the door?  He actually started to agree with me.  Then he told me about having an intruder in his house.  He couldn’t get to his shotgun in time, but he had a pistol stuck in the back of his pants.  He could have shot his ass off trying to extract the pistol!  Anyway, the intruder left with no harm done.  I asked if the intruder had broken into his home.  He said no, the guy just walked in because he had forgotten to lock the front door.

      The only gun I’ve ever held was a cap pistol when I was a kid.  I would never want to own a gun because I’m too clumsy, and I’d probably shoot my foot.  God forbid, a relative.

      I do, however, see the need for people, who live in rural areas, to protect themselves from bears or other dangerous wild animals.

      • #324208
        Rocky
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 153

        Part of a good home defense training course taught by a qualified instructor is designed to teach people how to avoid those kinds of mistakes and maintain situational awareness. The 2 day course my wife and I took at our local gun range was only a couple hours of actual gun training, the rest was in the classroom. We learned responsible handling, securing, and decision making through example situations from real life.

        It was well worth it to us. I hope we never have to use it.

        “I wouldn't be a grumpy old man if people would stop pissin' me off"

      • #324520
        ArtfromArk
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 845

        a few years ago. My mom and I were on our way to Eureka Springs when we saw police tape around a house. Curious, we looked at the local news after we got back and learned that some guy had shot his grandfather because he thought Grandpa was an intruder.

      • #324527
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,972

        Less than 5% of gun deaths come from those with SMI. They are also more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population so I thought an argument in favor of guns was for self defense. Focusing on mentally ill doesn’t seem like a serious solution when it comes to reducing gun homicides.

         

        Is it guns or mental illness

        Dr. Knoll and Mr. Annas state that laws focusing on screening out gun ownership for the mentally ill will not solve the problem of mass shootings. “Perpetrators of mass shootings are unlikely to have a history of involuntary psychiatric hospitalizations. Thus, databases intended to restrict access to guns and established by guns laws that broadly target people with mental illness will not capture this group of individuals.” Ibid.

        Furthermore, a significant number of mass shooters are in their late teens to early 20s, when signs of severe mental illness may not yet be observable. For example, Jared Loughner, the Tucson shooter above, was just starting to show signs of schizophrenia, which are usually a tendency to become withdrawn and lose interest in activities—not violence. The diagnostic manual of the mental health professionals, currently the DSM-5, states: “The psychotic features of schizophrenia typically emerge between the late teens and the mid-30s.”Those with this disorder represent approximately 1% of the U.S. population, and only 3-5% of all violence, including gun violence, is due to such mental illness. Yet for those few who are violent, it is only “during certain high-risk periods, such as during a first episode of psychosis.”4 In other words, there may be no history of a tendency toward violence, even of severe mental illness, to find in a background check for these young adult shooters.

        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201908/is-it-guns-or-mental-illness%3famp

    • #324523
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,972

      Guns are a pain in the ass you have to make sure they are safe & secure at all times. I don’t want the responsibility.

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