Octafish (3771 posts)May 29, 2017 at 11:26 am
Do YOU care who killed JFK?
The other day, Peter Dreier wrote, “No” and explained why he thinks that way here.
A few years back, James Douglass wrote, “Yes” and explained why he thinks it matters.
Today marks the centennial of President Kennedy’s birth, May 29, 1917.
What say you, JackPine Radicals?DesertRat2015, Major Hogwash, 12-Bar Blues and 55 othersdreamnightwind, 99thMonkey, canoeist52, mzh, WillyT, Fire with Fire, Phlem, VagrantPeters, 99Forever, Coincidence, virgdem, bobthedrummer, Spanish Devil, tk2kewl, 7wo7rees, disillusioned73, pacalo, FanBoy, Paka, NothingcleverjustRay, shanti, Hydra, Odd John, MrMickeysMom, slay, TRex, joentokyo, Enthusiast, Spanishprof27, Whamzees, resist99, Mom Cat, snot, Art from Ark, PADemD, HeartoftheMidwest, gardengoddess, whispers, Tuesday, pa28, bbgrunt, JEB, iggy, nevereVereven, nenagh, twenty, historylovr, Ferd Berfel, Land of Enchantment, ThouArtThat, azurnoir, AlreadyInUse, Satan, BlueAK, Marym625 like this“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
1 year ago #96
1 year ago #112
1 year ago #33
1 year ago #70
1 year ago #76
1 year ago #114
1 year ago #115
1 year ago #91
1 year ago #89
1 year ago #135
1 year ago #134
Marym625 (30738 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:30 am
1. Yes, I do
I believe that the answer will tell us much. Even about today.
What a different world it would be…Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #1) May 29, 2017 at 12:11 pm
9. Thank you, Marym625! Those who remember those days agree.
This is a very different nation from what JFK led, showing me what kind of people assassinated him.
The secret documents released over the years show JFK clearly intended to get the US out of Vietnam and that he stood up to the warmongers in his Cabinet, Joint Chiefs of Staff and CIA. These groups proposed an all-out nuclear sneak attack on the USSR, an idea Kennedy rejected. They told him the best time for our military advantage would be “Fall 1963.”“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Marym625 (30738 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #9) May 29, 2017 at 12:39 pm
13. And don't forget JFK put a stop to Northwood
I just used Wikipedia because it was easier than sorting through all the blogs.
Kennedy was shot 5 months after I was born so I don’t remember. But my family loved him. You would have thought we were related they way they talked.
There were a ton of similarities between my mom’s family and the Kennedy family. Starting with my grandparents were from Ireland and the same ages as Joe Sr and RoseTake Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #13) May 29, 2017 at 6:02 pm
47. The same Northwood plan used for 9/11
And JFK fired the Northwood plan proponent (who speciously wound up on board the Warren Commission)I'm a lone wolf, against tyranny, cronyism & corruption; which utilizes coverups & "Color of Law" to aid & abet Wall Street Racket$. Nobody believes our tales; because there's so much. If only others would research the truth and unite, we could do so much more!
slay (564 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #47) May 29, 2017 at 10:09 pm
82. That is my conclusion as well
How else was PNAC going to get The American People to agree to a war in Iraq? There are soooooooo many unanswered questions about 9/11 – this is another situation where people should keep pressing for The Truth. It’s hard for most people to accept that our own government had a hand in 9/11 – but I’m convinced – absolutely convinced – that they did – I’m just not sure to what degree – LIHOP or MIHOP.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #82) May 29, 2017 at 10:16 pm
84. 1st thing …it is NOT "our government" doing it
Rogue elements, Machiavellian, did it.I'm a lone wolf, against tyranny, cronyism & corruption; which utilizes coverups & "Color of Law" to aid & abet Wall Street Racket$. Nobody believes our tales; because there's so much. If only others would research the truth and unite, we could do so much more!
slay (564 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #84) May 30, 2017 at 1:32 am
96. Well – they were our government leaders at the time
Cheney and the rest of The Dark Side. No I certainly don’t blame a normal government worker – but those in charge – like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc – oh yeah.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #96) May 30, 2017 at 1:39 am
97. Our nation is The Empire
The Ebol EmpireI'm a lone wolf, against tyranny, cronyism & corruption; which utilizes coverups & "Color of Law" to aid & abet Wall Street Racket$. Nobody believes our tales; because there's so much. If only others would research the truth and unite, we could do so much more!
slay (564 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #97) May 30, 2017 at 1:44 am
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #98) May 30, 2017 at 1:46 am
99. Yup. I've read "Crossing the Rubicon"
slay (564 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #99) May 30, 2017 at 1:56 am
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #100) May 30, 2017 at 2:52 am
102. Written by Michael Ruppert (suicided years ago)
Im on my 4th copy.
Every time. I loan it out
They wont give it back
slay (564 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #102) May 30, 2017 at 4:09 am
104. I'm familiar with Ruppert – but like Hunter Thompson – I don't think was suicide
He purposefully left note in his own handwriting – more than one – to let it be know he has chosen to kill himself. I don’t blame him – or Hunter -the shit they’d been though. I looked at both – very closely – when they occurred – going in thinking – this probably was a murder – but the closer I looked – the more they both truly did appear to be suicide. I already know that’s how I’m going to die – I think most smart people do – so I don’t really consider it to be out of the ordinary. I did like Ruppert – he was very brave in exposing all the shit he did – and he’s right about the upcoming collapse too I think – his timeline was just a bit off.
*edited to add link
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #104) May 30, 2017 at 4:56 am
107. Him, Aaron, Marty Lackner
It all doesn’t make sense, to me.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #82) May 29, 2017 at 10:36 pm
85. We know Bush family involved in WWII planning
Prescott was partners Brown Brothers Harriman and budfies of Fritz Thyssen.
George HW Bush there when JFK done in.
Also CIA guy Iran Contra Ollie North
And Bush family security of WTCs
(when GWB’s approval ratings were as bad as Donald’s prior to 9/11)
Art from Ark (4057 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #9) May 29, 2017 at 3:52 pm
34. What I find interesting
is that three men who ran against Richard Nixon for the presidency, either directly or indirectly, ended up getting shot, all by “lone gunmen”. Must be some kind of record.The last time America was run like a business, we ended up with a Great Depression.
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Art from Ark - post #34) May 29, 2017 at 5:52 pm
45. Then, JFK's son dies in a plane crash.
It also was a real blow to reform and progressive politics, as he had been prepping for his Senate run.
Consider what we’ve been living ever since: Money Trumps Peace.“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Art from Ark (4057 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #45) May 29, 2017 at 6:01 pm
46. I've always wondered about that plane crash
Democrats seem to have especially bad luck with airplanes–
Jerry Litton, Missouri, 1976, just after winning the Democratic primary for US Senator
JFK, Jr., 1999
Mel Carnahan, Missouri, 2000, just before the general election
Paul Wellstone, Minnesota, 2002, just before the general electionThe last time America was run like a business, we ended up with a Great Depression.
ensemble (15 posts) (Reply to Art from Ark - post #46) May 29, 2017 at 8:33 pm
69. Hale Boggs, Louisiana, 1972,….
Warren Commission member who did not believe the single bullet theory.
Art from Ark (4057 posts) (Reply to ensemble - post #69) May 29, 2017 at 8:43 pm
71. And Ted Kennedy was in a plane crash in 1964
but he survived.The last time America was run like a business, we ended up with a Great Depression.
Entrepreneur (2997 posts) (Reply to Art from Ark - post #46) May 30, 2017 at 10:23 am
112. I never wondered at all. Before they found the wreck Fox News was already spread
spreading a meme that John was an arrogant pilot and that he didn’t have instrument training. Then the FBI restricted people from the shoreline because they didn’t want “souvenir hunters”. Yeah, right.“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness" - J.K. Galbraith
Art from Ark (4057 posts) (Reply to Entrepreneur - post #112) May 31, 2017 at 12:14 am
133. Wow, I never knew thatThe last time America was run like a business, we ended up with a Great Depression.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #45) May 29, 2017 at 6:03 pm
48. And Bobby….too
We are such a joke…as citizens scrutiny
tularetom (2608 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #45) May 30, 2017 at 3:13 am
103. He was gonna run for the senate seat that Hillary eventually won
He would have kicked her ass in a primary.
Draw your own conclusions.
And now Trump, who talked pretty tough during the campaign about rolling back foreign involvements, is slowly morphing into Hillary 2.0. I guess the Zapruder film they forced him to watch, seeped through all the hair goop into his tiny brain.
Just as it did for Obama.I went home with a waitress the way I always do How was I to know she was with the russians, too? Notary Sojac
Entrepreneur (2997 posts) (Reply to tularetom - post #103) May 30, 2017 at 2:46 pm
121. Yep. +100“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness" - J.K. Galbraith
zeemike (1239 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:35 am
2. Yes I still care.
Because as long as justice remains undone we will have the same problem.
Those who killed him may be dead by now but the problem they represent lives on and is stronger today because they got away with the crime.You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”
Satan (4740 posts) (Reply to zeemike - post #2) May 29, 2017 at 11:52 am
5. At least one guy involved in the assassination is still up there on Earth.
and yeah, it’s a name you would recognize.I didn't refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton because any goddamned Russian told me to. I refused to vote for her because she is a warmongering, election stealing, Goldman Sachs fellating, Republican WHORE. No offense to sex workers.
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #5) May 29, 2017 at 12:27 pm
11. zeemike knows. Unfortunately, most of planet Earth hasn't heard the news.
This FBI memo gives us George H. W. Bush’s whereabouts on Nov. 22, 1963 as Dallas, Texas. What a coincidence.
Here’s a transcript of the text:
TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63
FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL
SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY
At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.
BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.
BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.
BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.
# # #
Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?
Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.
Here’s an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one “Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency.” Wow! What another coincidence.
Here’s a transcript of the above:
Date: November 29, 1963
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State
From: John Edgar Hoover, Director
Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963
Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.
Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President’s policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President’s death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.
An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.
The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.
# # #
Now I don’t know if Poppy was a trigger man, was only there to watch what happened or what just happened to be there. I do know Poppy Bush has never explained these memos. He’s never even admitted where he was the day JFK was killed.
Something else never reported on tee vee: GHWB was head of the CIA when the Church Committee was looking into the CIA assassination programs. He made things all friendly-like and turned what had been a serious investigation for truth under previous DCI William Colby into another dog-and-pony show that was big on show and light on facts.
Seeing how he would go on to become President, as would his dim son, I believe it’s vitally important that we learn — and report — the Truth. Why? Democracy and Liberty and all the rest on it.
The United States and the world haven’t been the same since November 22, 1963. And apart from calling those wondering “What happened,” “Conspiracy Theorists,” Corporate McPravda has done little but sow disinformation and help run America up to wars from the Gulf of Tonkin to tiny little Grenada. So, it’s up to us, We the People.
PS: Thank Gore for the Internet and Mary and Manny for JackPine Radicals.“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Ferd Berfel (6361 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #11) May 29, 2017 at 12:44 pm
16. there is also an photo
With unnamed people in it in front of the book depository. One of them sure looks like poppy.…and you think you’re going to stop this simply by ‘pulling a lever’, in a booth, behind a curtain, every 2 years? - Know yourself. And if you need help with that, call the FBI. - There is only ONE solution to this mess: New Party !
Satan (4740 posts) (Reply to Ferd Berfel - post #16) May 29, 2017 at 3:38 pm
30. It sure does….
More recently, another picture has surfaced that suggests that 17 year old Chimpy W. Bush Jr might have been present as well…..
Not that he was likely involved in the assassination himself, because he would have been far too stupid to keep his mouth shut about it. But he might have just been there by coincidence, looking for his daddy.I didn't refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton because any goddamned Russian told me to. I refused to vote for her because she is a warmongering, election stealing, Goldman Sachs fellating, Republican WHORE. No offense to sex workers.
Ferd Berfel (6361 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #30) May 29, 2017 at 4:00 pm
35. never heard of that one…and you think you’re going to stop this simply by ‘pulling a lever’, in a booth, behind a curtain, every 2 years? - Know yourself. And if you need help with that, call the FBI. - There is only ONE solution to this mess: New Party !
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #11) May 29, 2017 at 6:05 pm
49. The son of Prescott Bush
the man who partnered with Rockefellers and Ford to supply Germany
Green Dog Dem (3276 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #5) May 29, 2017 at 12:52 pm
Flygirl (3018 posts) (Reply to Green Dog Dem - post #19) May 29, 2017 at 1:03 pm
22. You are just your Teams Comedian..right?According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
zeemike (1239 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #5) May 29, 2017 at 2:30 pm
27. Yes I know him.
The only one who could not remember where he was on the day JFK was shot. A member of a crime family that has gotten by with many crimes for over 100 years.You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”
Satan (4740 posts) (Reply to zeemike - post #27) May 29, 2017 at 3:45 pm
33. Well… they may get away with them in the Earthly courts….
but down here in Hell, we haven’t forgotten. Chimpy…. Poppy… Prescott, hell even old Sam, considering he did a lot to arm most of the particpants in World War I (which also resulted in creating the USSR as a by-product of all those Remington rifles ending up in Russia) Prescott Jr is down here now too. You can think him for all the jobs outsourced to China…..
zeemike (1239 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #33) May 29, 2017 at 5:26 pm
39. Well we all pin our hopes on it.
That justice is always done…and that you do your job well, and pay particular attention to those kind of people.You see things; and you say “Why?” But I dream things that never were; and I say “Why not?”
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #33) May 29, 2017 at 7:50 pm
58. On the right, was Prescott, Jr., Middle Kingdom Rainmaker
The Bush family: Middle Kingdom rainmakers
By Zach Coleman
Asia Times, July 4, 2004
HONG KONG – George Herbert Walker Bush arrived in Beijing 30 years ago as the official United States representative to China with one goal above all else: expanding his buddy list.
“My hyper-adrenaline, political instincts tell me that the fun of this job is going to be to try to make more contacts,” he wrote in his first diary entry. “And it is my hope that I will be able to meet the next generation of China’s leaders – whomever they may be. Yet everyone tells me that that is impossible.”
Bush Sr, already a champion networker, wasn’t to be denied. In a final triumph at the end of his stay, Deng Xiaoping, then vice premier, threw a farewell lunch for Bush Sr and his wife.
“You are our old friends,” said Deng, according to a Chinese government website. “You are welcome to come back anytime in the future.”
Bush Sr and his relatives have turned that open invitation into a family franchise over the years, setting themselves up as gatekeepers between lucrative business opportunities created by the opening up of China’s economy and the US corporate and political establishment. If Iraq is the place where the Bush men fight once they leave the oil fields of Texas, China is where they have made money.
Prescott Bush, Jr.
Prescott Bush only made his first visit to China after his brother Bush Sr had moved into the White House as vice president in 1981. He quickly became a regular, leaving behind his 33-year career in the insurance brokerage business in preference for Chinese deal making. A 30 percent stake in one early project, an $18 million golf club in Shanghai, gave Prescott the opportunity to strike up a friendship with then-mayor Jiang Zemin (who now heads the communist party’s powerful standing committee of Central Military Commission).
Now 81, Prescott Bush still travels to China two to four times a year, according to the website of Plus Holdings, a Hong Kong-listed company focused on China, which hired Prescott as a special adviser three months after Bush Jr’s inauguration. The website features Prescott’s picture at the top of its home page. “He has many friends in China,” the site says in its biography of the special Bush family adviser.
Prescott Bush Resources, his consulting company, has put together more than 30 joint ventures in China since 1978, according to the website of Global Access, a US consulting company active in China, which retains Prescott as chairman of its advisory board. “Mr Bush has also facilitated meetings and approvals at the highest levels of the Chinese government,” the site adds in its biography.
“I don’t get a lot of business because my nephew is president or my brother was president,” Prescott insisted in an interview with USA Today in 2002, though he admitted, “You can meet a lot of people because of it.”
Prescott capitalized explicitly on the family tie-in by forming the US-China Chamber of Commerce in 1993 after serving on its predecessor, the Hong Kong-US Business Council, during his brother’s presidency.
“My brother, George, has been instrumental in the development of US and China relations since 1974,” he wrote in his letter to prospective members. The chamber pitches itself as a networking hub, which “provides the business communities in both countries with direct access to leading business people and government officials who are important in their business development efforts”.
Mr. Bush has passed since the above was written.“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Bernice Ta (665 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #5) May 29, 2017 at 5:38 pm
40. Nickname Poppy, by any chance? Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.
And yes, I care. Maybe knowing would wake more people up — some of the older folks who think nothing’s going on — and we can get more change started.
I never believed Oswald did it, for the record. I started reading stuff when I was younger that made me think he was a convenient patsy, someone to hang it all on so the real perpetrators could continue doing their dirty work behind the scenes.
I was about the same age as Caroline, and my brother was the same age as John, Jr. It always struck me as so sad, those kids losing their father. The funeral was a couple of days or so after my brother’s birthday. My family loved JFK. My grandpa was a staunch FDR Democrat to the day he died, and he’d be ashamed of the way his beloved party treats people these days. I fight for him, and for any future grandkids I may have, that they can have something better than what’s coming.
wilsonbooks (154 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:49 am
3. Yes.I asked Tom if countries always apologized when they had done wrong, & he says, "Yes; the little ones does." (*Tom Sawyer Abroad*, Mark Twain)
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to wilsonbooks - post #3) May 29, 2017 at 7:46 pm
57. Thank you! Today, a Texas GOP lawman threatened to shoot a DEM in the head.
I kid you not, wilsonbooks:
Texas Lawmaker Threatens to Shoot Colleague After Reporting Protesters to ICE
By MATTHEW HAAG
The New York Times, MAY 29, 2017
A Texas state representative, referring to protesters at the State Capitol on Monday, said he reported “several illegal immigrants” to federal immigration authorities and then threatened to shoot a fellow lawmaker who objected.
The chaotic scene erupted around 11 a.m. on the last day of a particularly bitter legislative session in Austin, when demonstrators in the gallery of the House Chamber began chanting in opposition to a new law that bans so-called sanctuary cities. On the House floor, Representative Matt Rinaldi, a Republican, then turned to several Democratic lawmakers and told them he had reported the people to the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.
One of the Democrats, Representative César J. Blanco, said that Mr. Rinaldi told him and others, “We are going to have them deported,” and then used an obscenity.
“We were in shock,” Mr. Blanco said. “He assumed that because they were brown, in the gallery and protesting that they were here illegally.”
The exchange led to a confrontation among lawmakers, with some pushing and pointing at one another. Some legislators had to be restrained. Mr. Rinaldi got into a face-to-face argument with Representative Poncho Nevárez, a Democrat, and threatened to shoot him.
Murderous racism in the halls of Texas government on JFK’s birthday.“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #57) May 29, 2017 at 8:04 pm
60. Bigotry shall reign
At all costs
NV Wino (9462 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:51 am
Betty Karlson (5348 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:54 am
6. Yes, we deserve to know who killed peace to give war a chance. eom"Someone hacks the DNC allowing all of America to see how the DNC operates as one of the most corrupt political machines in national history. Ergo, Hillary Clinton should be installed as President by judicial fiat. And if you do not agree to this scheme you deserve to be brought up on charges of treason because fascism." - NUGrrl, december 2016 “Once a person has been determined to be an UNTRUSTWORTHY LIAR, their pretend stances on important issues are simply not relevant to rational discussion.” – Ida Briggs, September 2016
AlreadyInUse (1587 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:05 pm
7. Yes, of course
Two compelling reads are “JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters” by James Douglas, and “The Devil’s Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America’s Secret Government” by David Talbot.
I found this 10 year old Rolling Stone column just a couple of days ago, which is interesting to say the least.
E. Howard scribbled the initials “LBJ,” standing for Kennedy’s ambitious vice president, Lyndon Johnson. Under “LBJ,” connected by a line, he wrote the name Cord Meyer. Meyer was a CIA agent whose wife had an affair with JFK; later she was murdered, a case that’s never been solved. Next his father connected to Meyer’s name the name Bill Harvey, another CIA agent; also connected to Meyer’s name was the name David Morales, yet another CIA man and a well-known, particularly vicious black-op specialist. And then his father connected to Morales’ name, with a line, the framed words “French Gunman Grassy Knoll.”
So there it was, according to E. Howard Hunt. LBJ had Kennedy killed. It had long been speculated upon. But now E. Howard was saying that’s the way it was. And that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t the only shooter in Dallas. There was also, on the grassy knoll, a French gunman, presumably the Corsican Mafia assassin Lucien Sarti, who has figured prominently in other assassination theories.
Cleita (3610 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:08 pm
8. Yes, and I want to know who is killing everyone else with the
carefully staged random accidents and suicides. I’ll bet the paths all lead to the same source.
ThouArtThat (7922 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:23 pm
10. Yes – Allen Dulles – Discussed In – The Devil's Chessboard"In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous
Satan (4740 posts) (Reply to ThouArtThat - post #10) May 29, 2017 at 5:09 pm
37. That reminds me….
I have to set up a “celebrity chess tournament” featuring Dulles & Z-Big, now that they’re both here in Hell.
ThouArtThat (7922 posts) (Reply to Satan - post #37) May 29, 2017 at 5:15 pm
38. Let Us Know How That Works Out
eom"In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous
FugitiveBirdie (2056 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:30 pm
Ferd Berfel (6361 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:39 pm
14. hell yes I do
Anyone that dosent care about this is a complete waste of time.
mick063 (2536 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:44 pm
15. I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK as a lone gunman
I believe extraterrestrial intelligence is too far away to visit.
I believe we landed on the moon.
I believe 9/11 was not a US government conspiracy (But the Saudi Monarchy was complicit)
I don’t believe the vapor trails of jets are anything other than vapor trails.
I believe in evolution and that human DNA is 99% similar to apes.
I believe the earth is roughly 4 billion years old.
I don’t believe that vaccinations cause autism.
I believe that everything we eat has been genetically modified by selective breeding or pollination long before DNA modification in a lab was even conceived of.
I don’t believe that tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs.
I don’t believe that Russians hacked the general election.
I do believe that Wiki Leaks is the last bastion of reliable truth telling with respect to politics."I welcome their hatred" Franklin D. Roosevelt
Green Dog Dem (3276 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #15) May 29, 2017 at 12:51 pm
17. He very well may have. The question is, who was behind him?
???Aloha! KamaAina in the hale (house).
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Green Dog Dem - post #17) May 29, 2017 at 2:15 pm
26. Someone went to a lot of trouble to put him where he was.
Here someone impersonated Oswald in Mexico City at the Cuban and Soviet embassies.
Whether Dallas, New Orleans, Moscow, Atsugi and who knows where else, he was set up to connect Dallas to Cuba and to the Soviets.
When the House Select Committee on Assassinations started asking too many questions about it, CIA changed their Congressional liaison to one George Joannides, the same guy who seems to have been Oswald’s handler in New Orleans.“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #26) May 29, 2017 at 8:48 pm
Plus we have testimony Oswald was with CIA weeks before.
One way or another, the CIA is linked.
Making the “he did it” unlikely
slay (564 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #15) May 29, 2017 at 8:34 pm
70. I believe you are wrong about at least 2 of those things
Which is why I want to know what really happened to Kennedy. If it really was just Oswald – so be it – but it wasn’t – I feel 100% confident in saying that. Everyone is – of course – entitled to their own opinion – but I want to know what really happened.
mick063 (2536 posts) (Reply to slay - post #70) May 29, 2017 at 9:06 pm
77. It is all right here"I welcome their hatred" Franklin D. Roosevelt
slay (564 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #77) May 29, 2017 at 9:37 pm
Nice – yr funny… Do you also have a bridge to sell me? As someone pointed out below – why would mob connected Ruby assassinate Oswald other than to shut him up? Oswald as lone assassin just does not make sense – at all.
*edited to clarify my total disbelief in the “””official””” story we were fed about JFK…
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #78) May 29, 2017 at 10:45 pm
87. I know…right.
It is like damnation bent to destroy facts; based on babbling obfuscating banter bullchit
Until we just give up and say okay
Far too much evidence, to the contrary
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #15) May 29, 2017 at 8:46 pm
72. Absurd. Not Wiki (nor even this realm)
Evidence Oswald was a “lone” planner/ gunman – went right out the window – once Ruby shot him.
Since then, mountains of evidence obliterates the lone gun “propaganda”
mick063 (2536 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #72) May 29, 2017 at 9:03 pm
76. There is a difference between reliable and infallible. Wiki Leaks is reliable.
With respect to another subject….JFK
One gun. One gunman.
Mick"I welcome their hatred" Franklin D. Roosevelt
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #76) May 29, 2017 at 10:03 pm
80. Pointing to the Warren report, as validation
is beyond absurd.
As Seen on the Internet (812 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #72) May 30, 2017 at 5:38 am
108. All claims that I've seen that have tried to prove
that the bullet came from any place other than Oswald’s position have failed. JFK was clearly shot from behind and Oswald had an easy shot at him.
Oswald owned the assassination weapon that was found at the sniper’s nest and he lied and claimed it wasn’t his.
His fellow workers put him at the scene of the crime and his finger prints were on the sniper’s nest.
Oswald murdered officer Tippit shortly after.
When caught, Oswald said “Well, it is all over now.”
His wife, Marina, thought he did it after visiting Oswald shortly after the assassination.
He made this gesture of defiance to reporters after he was caught:
etc, etc, etc
But a lot of people have their pet theories and a lot of writers want to sell more books on the assassination. That’s why CT’ers list is long on who has been implicated in the murder.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to As Seen on the Internet - post #108) May 30, 2017 at 10:15 am
110. Yeah…I'm calling a big Bull Chit!
Bet you need to Google “AARC” to even know what it is.
We’ve been to Dallas. A guy keeps getting arrested for putting “X” spot where it occurred.
We are in direct contact (and direct personal friends) with people in D.C. who sponsored various events including a major event held about the anniversary of the Warren Commission Conference in D.C. …where dozens of competing theory organizations came together.
Evidence from experts us overwhelming that Oswald was a patdsy…just like he said.
As Seen on the Internet (812 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #110) May 30, 2017 at 11:05 am
114. "where dozens of competing theory organizations came together"
Clearly the evidence for anyone other than Oswald committing the murder is very poor, or there would be a consistent alternate narrative on who was involved.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to As Seen on the Internet - post #114) May 30, 2017 at 11:08 am
115. Ha Ha! As a professional debunker, you need better
As Seen on the Internet (812 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #115) May 30, 2017 at 11:11 am
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to As Seen on the Internet - post #108) May 30, 2017 at 10:19 am
111. Your opine doesn' obliterate facts. And, btw AARC
is the Assassination Archives and Research Center
Entity that purported debunkers such as ye, could never give time of day…cause the bull would be washed away..
mick063 (2536 posts) (Reply to As Seen on the Internet - post #108) May 30, 2017 at 10:43 am
113. There is a cottage industry that resulted from the assasination
Looks like a lot of folks took the bait."I welcome their hatred" Franklin D. Roosevelt
ensemble (15 posts) (Reply to As Seen on the Internet - post #108) May 30, 2017 at 3:56 pm
123. Carlos Hathcock, Marine Sniper Instructor….
said that they could not duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
The reason the list of suspects implicated in one way or another is so long is that JFK had many powerful enemies.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to ensemble - post #123) May 30, 2017 at 4:08 pm
124. Jesse Ventura, a SEAL, tried to duplicate
Absolute miracle with auto weapon
Which Oswald did not have
As Seen on the Internet (812 posts) (Reply to ensemble - post #123) May 30, 2017 at 4:14 pm
ensemble (15 posts) (Reply to As Seen on the Internet - post #125) May 31, 2017 at 7:27 pm
139. I'm seeing….
a video with people cycling a gun without shooting or shooting at fixed targets, I assume with a gun that was not Oswald’s.
How may times did they get to practice shooting at fixed targets in an open field? There was a tree that partially obstructed the line of sight from the TSBD to the moving limo on Elm Street.
In order to test the supposed murder weapon, the sight had to be adjusted because it was way out of alignment and could not be adjusted in without modifying the sight. The FBI also concluded that it would take 2.3 seconds to cycle Oswald’s rifle, so it didn’t cycle like the rifles in the video.
As Seen on the Internet (812 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #15) May 30, 2017 at 4:42 am
fluff (635 posts) (Reply to mick063 - post #15) May 31, 2017 at 12:02 pm
Flygirl (3018 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:52 pm
18. Yes..most definitely…but I believe I already know…as much as anyone can..
just no valid proof..I do believe Oliver Stone has most accurately covered and portrayed the murder conspiracy..According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
jdpriestly (5878 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:55 pm
20. I care who killed JFK. He was the hero of my generation.
In my view, the country never recovered from his assassination. And I do not believe that we have the true or full story of the planning of his assassination.
I do not believe that one man alone planned that assassination. Just figuring out the route the Kennedy car was to travel on took some work. Carrying a gun to work on the precise day of the Kennedy visit?
And then, recently at one of these free bookshelves that you see on the street, I picked up a book with a cover that suggested the book was about the relationship between Peter and Henry Fonda. Instead, inside was a book of transcripts of telephone calls made by LBJ when he took office, telephone calls from the White House. Granted the transcripts may be incomplete, but as I have read the earliest of them, I am struck by what is missing.
LBJ talks about setting up the Warren Commission (and that gave me cause to wonder at whose advice he was taking), but there seems to be very little expression of horror or fear or anxiety much less really strong curiosity about who killed Kennedy. LBJ struck me as all too ready to accept the explanation that Oswald did it. I should think that a newly inaugurated president who had taken over because the previous president was brutally assassinated while sitting in a car surrounded by Secret Service agents (who had been removed from Kennedy’s car at just the perfect moment to facilitate the attack) by a sharp-shooter (clearly a professional shot) would be extremely interested in finding out all of the circumstances of the killing and all of the people who could possibly have been involved.
I would expect the new president, if he did not already know who the assassin(s) were to do everything possible to determine right away with great urgency whether the person believed to be the killer really was the killer and whether there was any kind of coup or organized effort to take over the government beyond the assassination of the previous president.
Anyway, in my view, President Johnson would normally, if he did not already know who was behind the assassination of Kennedy, have been positively obsessed with determining whether there was a more complicated conspiracy or plot behind the killing of JFK.
And then there is the additional killing of Robert Kennedy, also during the presidency of LBJ.
I have a lot of questions. Just based on my experience with human nature, I do not have confidence in the history that we are expected to accept as truth.No Truth! No Trust! Bernie or Bust!
LiberalElite (7665 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 12:56 pm
nevereVereven (5886 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 1:08 pm
Trump is a fool who may yet blunder us into war; the Dems and the Deep State cabal would give us war by design.
JEB (765 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 1:48 pm
24. Yes, I care, but more than that
I care about who stomped JFK’s agenda into the ground. Now we have endless war and sacrifice instead of peace and prosperity.
Punxsutawney (3217 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 2:04 pm
25. For those interested, I recommend the following book
Legacy of Secrecy: The Long Shadow of the JFK Assassination
by Lamar Waldron and Thom HartmannTo neoliberals, everyone and everything are disposable. - Chris Hedges “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness" - J.K. Galbraith
gardengoddess (516 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 2:55 pm
TwilightSporkle (1795 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 3:43 pm
31. Yes, but not in a major, gripping way
More in a “I like to know facts” way.
reality, whoever killed JFK is almost certainly dead themselves. if there was a conspiracy behind it? well, just add one to the tally. Fuck we’re to the point where conspiracies don’t even need to be “conspiracies,” they just march their shit in the open and either FOX or MSNBC falls down and sucks ass for them, depending on what party is in charge.
What if I want to tell you to leave me and my beloved ones in peace
But you only understand the language of the sword
I let the blade do the talking
So my tongue shall become iron
And my words the mighty roar of war
fluff (635 posts) (Reply to TwilightSporkle - post #31) May 31, 2017 at 12:03 pm
snot (1517 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 3:43 pm
And I’m fine with having some individuals remain obsessed with exposing more info about it. And I’m glad not everyone is, since we do have other matters to attend to.https://www.battleforthenet.com/ 1% “To Do” list:
1. Control banking; 2. Control communications (including “news” media); 3. Control the government; 4. Control education ; ....
tonyl (1071 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 4:55 pm
36. Every man's death diminishes me ..
and (in case you didn’t know it); diminishes you as well.Because you cant have integrity occasionally
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 5:46 pm
41. Yes, I most certainly do! Have reviewed hundreds of
films, articles and books on this issue. It is so frigging obvious Oswald was not a lone gunman.
As Lee Harvey said, he was a patsy!
I’ve supported various ventures and conferences on this pathetic state of affairs that people don’t give a chit one of our greatest gifts to himanity was taken down, before his time.
The key thing is, only two men dared fire CIA lords – JFK & Nixon – and both were taken out of office.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #41) May 29, 2017 at 5:48 pm
42. Please go to http://justice-integrity.org
if you want to be on the inner circle of those working – strenuously – to get to the whole truth about JFK assassination!
NJOCK (701 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 5:50 pm
43. I do, Octafish
Have you ever seen “JFK The Smoking Gun?”
It’s the best explanation I have ever seen.“The first revolution is when you change your mind about how you look at things, and see there might be another way to look at it that you have not been shown. What you see later on is the results of that, but that revolution, that change that takes place will not be televised.” -Gil Scott-Heron
KenTanker0us (544 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 5:52 pm
44. Most assuredly.
And thank you for not letting us forget, Octafish. Excellent thread.
KenI used to be Navarth at DU. I left DU when it became polluted with Hillary pushers. The party bosses fucked us, and Bernie, just like they did with Henry Wallace in 1944.
HIP56948 (4652 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 6:16 pm
50. Yes, because the same tentacles are still reaching into our lives.There are 2 types of people in this world. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to HIP56948 - post #50) May 29, 2017 at 7:43 pm
56. Like Bush 9/11
Banter of “if” Bush’s are guilty of bad faith – is inane cognitive dissonance
Enthusiast (16201 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 6:26 pm
51. We need the entire truth of the assassination exposed to the light.
Then we would know the authors of the mess this nation has been in since then. You know, including stolen elections, wars that shouldn’t have been fought, false flag attacks and myriad other wrong headed acts."I got a great big pointed fang Which is my Zomby Toof My right foot's bigger than my other one is Like a reg'lar Zomby Hoof If I raid your dormitorium Don't try to remain aloof . . ." The Zombie Woof
Blackspade (4590 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 6:28 pm
52. I care.
The bullshit cover story is bad enough. The truth likely is at the heart of why the nation finds itself in its current predicament.
pa28 (398 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 6:54 pm
53. Yes, and I think Howard Hunt's deathbed confession put the truth out there.
It matters because so much has gone wrong starting with the assassination. Most of the major players are now gone but it’s never too late for disclosure and the truth.Demexit date June 2016 after 23 years.
As Seen on the Internet (812 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 7:11 pm
TRex (5736 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 7:38 pm
55. It is hard to believe IC agencies were not involved in his assassination.
With all the known evidence.Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to TRex - post #55) May 29, 2017 at 8:02 pm
59. It is "clear and convincing" fed agents involved
And beyond all reasonable doubt that Oswald – for sure – was not a lone guy.
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to TRex - post #55) May 29, 2017 at 8:12 pm
62. Lt. Cmdr. William Bruce Pitzer
In the first week of August 1965, Colonel Clarence W. Patten, commanding officer of the 6th Special Forces Group, summoned then-captain Dan Marvin to an office in Fort Bragg headquarters. Marvin says Colonel Patten told him to “meet a ‘Company’ man in an area adjacent to headquarters.”
Marvin has described this meeting, “in the shade of some nearby pine trees,” with “a slender man of about 5’10”:
“Dressed casually in short sleeves, light slacks and sunglasses appropriate for the August heat, he flashed his ID and took me aside. Would I terminate a man who was preparing to give state’s secrets to the enemy—a traitor in the making?”
Marvin, already trained as an assassin, said he would. He assumed his target would be in Southeast Asia, where he was on orders to go in December 1965.
Marvin asked the CIA man who the traitor was.
“I was told,” Marvin said, “he was a Navy officer—a Lieutenant Commander William Bruce Pitzer. The agent told me that Pitzer worked at Bethesda Naval Hospital. He said nothing of a link with the JFK autopsy and I just assumed that Pitzer was one of those sorry types that went wrong and was going to sell secrets to our enemy. The job had to be done at Bethesda before the man retired from the Navy.”
It was only at this point that Dan Marvin refused the trigger role in the plot against Pitzer. He had no objection, he confessed later, to killing Lt. Cdr. Pitzer, so long as the deed were to be done abroad, not in the United States.
According to Marvin, “It was common knowledge in Mafia and CIA circles that Green Berets were tapped by the Company to terminate selected ‘targets’ in foreign countries, whereas the Mafia provided the CIA’s pool of able assassins for hits in the U.S.”
CONTINUED (from “JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters” by James Douglas)…“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #62) May 29, 2017 at 8:27 pm
65. Of the thousand tidbits I'm aware of,
this is the 1st time I’m aware of this tangent.
AlreadyInUse (1587 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 8:12 pm
61. It will be interesting to see if Trump agrees to the release of documents
—JFK Assassination Records Collection Act, which requires the documents, which primarily come from the FBI and CIA, to be released by October 26, 2017 unless the president says otherwise.
Even with Trump’s campaign rhetoric suggesting Cruz Sr. may have played a part in Dallas, I could see him refusing the release simply because of the glee he would get from the ensuing outrage. On the other hand, the documents may help deflect attention from his continuing Hindenburg-like presidency.
BlueAK (1922 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 8:24 pm
63. Yes, I care.
It’s been that many years that I haven’t trusted my government.https://northernvisions.smugmug.com/
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to BlueAK - post #63) May 29, 2017 at 8:32 pm
68. It took my losing everything I had, and a career
25 hears in the making..to be woke up by Meteor Blades at DK.
When he told me I should think for myself, I wanted to rip his neck off.
Then I woke up…
ensemble (15 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 8:27 pm
64. NPR doesn't care…
Today, on Memorial Day and JFK’s 100th birthday, they did a piece on some poet who would have turned 100 next month. Maybe I read too much into things, but it’s almost a slap in the face to those who have any interest in geopolitics and how the world was and is run.
If the term “Deep State” means anything to you, then, yeah, it matters. It matters today.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to ensemble - post #64) May 29, 2017 at 8:29 pm
66. NPR has gone deep state, as has Nat GEO
We are the media…now
FanBoy (7983 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #66) May 30, 2017 at 12:48 am
91. Nat Geo was an arm of deep state long before the present
what do you think all that exploring was about
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to FanBoy - post #91) May 30, 2017 at 1:06 am
93. Just knew the subsequent owner
was no good
slay (564 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 8:30 pm
67. Everyone should care – if you don't care, then you don't care about The Truth
We can’t do anything to change it – but I damn sure want to know who did it – and why. I have my own theories based on evidence I’ve seen over time leading me to believe it was our own CIA, along with The Mafia, and possibly some hired hands from Cuba. Regardless – Of course I want to know what really happened that day – I can’t imagine not.
Rosa Luxemburg (1167 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 8:48 pm
MrMickeysMom (2524 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 8:55 pm
75. Couldn't let this day end without visiting your thread, Octafish…
Kennedys and King, Jim DiEugenio’s Website offers such complete evidence as to the significance of John F. Kennedy and his presidency…
Anyone who like me witnessed that era should care. For consecutive generations, he is something to be remembered. For anyone here who wonders why, see/hear the many interviews since then and read the many books. I can’t finish enough of them.
Thank goodness for internet programs and websites. In particular, blackopradio.com and Len Osenic. DiEugenio often talks with Len. DiEugenio has run Kennedy and Kings (the old CTKA). Like he explains there, author Larry Sabato has shown, the vast majority of Americans believe that something went wrong with America after he was assassinated. And, people SHOULD be reminded of what might have been and to commemorate what was.
More recently, it’s clear that the direction of Kennedy’s foreign policy was of concern to the CIA, which Kennedy wanted to blow into a thousand pieces and scattered to the wind. That was significant, and we can all appreciated the impact of who runs the country now, a.k.a. deep state. So…. it’s important to learn AS MUCH AS WE CAN about the many things Kennedy achieved while in office, which you will DEFINITELY NOT hear from our mainstream media.
slay (564 posts) (Reply to MrMickeysMom - post #75) May 29, 2017 at 9:53 pm
79. ^^^— Excellent Post!
I agree with everything you said. It’s almost as if an alternate reality was born the day they pulled off their assassination of Kennedy – all the hopes and dreams of a true country By and For the People – gone in an instant. The CIA = stronger than ever. I often wonder what America would be like if Kennedy had lived – and how far we could have advanced socially and economically if The Powers That Be hadn’t kept us divided and ignorant… sigh…
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to slay - post #79) May 29, 2017 at 10:04 pm
81. Well said.
Nice to meet a Carlin fan…
FanBoy (7983 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #81) May 30, 2017 at 12:50 am
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to FanBoy - post #92) May 30, 2017 at 1:08 am
94. People are allowed wealth…legitimate
He spoke it ..true and loud …often
MrMickeysMom (2524 posts) (Reply to slay - post #79) May 30, 2017 at 4:11 am
105. Excellent response…
When and what will it take? RIP, George Carlin!
NothingcleverjustRay (528 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 10:15 pm
83. It's super important who killed Kennedy.
Although I’m not sure if anyone else besides us cares. Everyone is too busy trying to survive to give a shit.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to NothingcleverjustRay - post #83) May 29, 2017 at 10:39 pm
86. Story of my life…Ray
Have evidence to devastate GSachs & Bain Cap…
But everyone numb to how much of these schemes…go on….with no semblance of justice
Paka (140 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:06 pm
88. Indeed I do!
I was alive and old enough to remember it all too well. To me, it’s impossible to not care. It plays a role in too much that has happened since.
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Paka - post #88) May 29, 2017 at 11:48 pm
89. Agree. Each time we let "them" (bad faith schemers)
pull a stunt and get away with it
We embolden the bad faith parties…
JFK being assassinated and U.S. being lax on getting to the truth, determined our future.
Same way DNC/ Super Ds’ determined Hillary would lose and we got Trump.
Same way we swalloed WMD’s like sheep
MisterTwister (367 posts) (Reply to original post) May 29, 2017 at 11:55 pm
90. Here's the best analysis on the web . . .
I’ve been reading many, many books on this subject and watched a lot of videos etc over the decades, and this guy Robert Harris brings forward the best evidence I’ve found showing why the Warren Commission conclusion (of a single gunman firing from the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository) cannot be possible.
Bottom line is this:
- the shot through JFK’s neck and Connelly’s ribs DO NOT line up to the 6th floor window.
- a piece of bone from the President’s skull was retrieved the following day by a medical student far BEHIND where the President was shot, suggesting a shot from the front.
- dozens of doctors, surgeons, and nurses saw a massive wound to the back of the President’s head, again suggesting a shot from the front.
- startle reactions, the driver applying brakes, secret servicemen, and other passengers’ testimony all indicate more than three shots.
- a major mobster admitted years later while secretly taped that he was responsible for the assassination.
pacalo (177 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 2:00 am
markr (83 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 6:05 am
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to markr - post #109) May 31, 2017 at 7:08 am
135. That was an interesting moment, a historic ''Tell.''
Both John McCone and his friend and predecessor as DCI Allen Dulles hid monitoring of Oswald in New Orleans from Warren Commission and America.
The CIA was financing a group of rabid anti-Castro Cubans in New Orleans, “DRE” for Directorio Revolucionario Estudantil (Spanish for Revolutionary Students Directorate). In the summer of 1963, they tangled with one Lee Harvey Oswald, who was handing out leaflets for the pro-Castro “Fair Play for Cuba Commitee” in New Orleans. The leaflets were stampled with an office address: “544 Camp Street, New Orleans, La.” which is odd, as that’s the side door to the offices of one Guy Bannister, former FBI man and rabid anti-Castro commie fighter doing private detective work for the spooks and such. In the 2016 campaign, someone floated the idea that Ted Cruz’s father was another operator. While I don’t know, I think it’s my right to know.
CIA admits undercover officer lived in New Orleans
by Jefferson Morley
JFKfacts.org, September 25, 2014 j
George Joannides, chief of CIA covert operations in Miami in 1963, also had a residence in New Orleans, according to the CIA.
In a court motion filed last week, the CIA acknowledged for the first time that deceased CIA officer George Joannides lived in New Orleans while handling contacts with an anti-Castro student organization whose members had a series of encounters with accused presidential assassin Lee Oswald in August 1963.
As an undercover CIA officer living in New Orleans, Joannides was well positioned to report on Oswald’s actions in late 1963.
Using the alias “Howard,” Joannides served as case officer for the Cuban Student Directorate (DRE), the anti-Castro organizations funded by the agency that publicized Oswald’s pro-Castro ways both before and after JFK was killed. He also served as chief of the psychological warfare operations branch of the CIA’s Miami station, according to declassified CIA records.
The CIA had an office in New Orleans where Oswald, an itinerant ex-Marine married to a Russian woman, lived from April to September 1963.
Lee Oswald came to the attention of CIA-funded anti-Castro exiles in New Orleans in the summer of 1963.
In August 1963, Oswald had a series of encounters with members of the New Orleans chapter of the Cuban Student Directorate who challenged his public support of Cuban president Fidel Castro.
The Cuban students publicized and denounced Oswald’s pro-Castro activities on a local radio program.
They sent one member, described as an “intelligence officer,” to visit Oswald’s house posing as a Castro supporter, to learn more about him.
The group issued a press release on August 21, 1963, calling for a congressional investigation of Oswald, who had not shot anyone at that point.
At the time, the CIA, via Joannides, supplied the Cuban students in Miami with $51,000 a month, according to CIA memo found in the JFK Library in Boston. The group’s activities involved “propaganda, political action and intelligence collection,” according to Joannides’s fitness evaluation from the summer of 1963.
When it came to Oswald, the DRE delivered what the CIA paid for.
The first JFK conspiracy theory, published with CIA support, on Nov. 23, 1963.
Within an hour of Oswald’s arrest for killing JFK on November 22, 1963, DRE leaders in Miami called reporters to say the president had been killed by a communist. The group’s information about Oswald helped generate headlines nationwide about “the pro-Castro gunman.”
The day after the assassination, the DRE published a broadsheet featuring the photos of Oswald and Castro under the headline “The Presumed Assassins.”
It was one of the first JFK conspiracy scenarios to reach public print. According to former members of the DRE, the group was wholly dependent on CIA funds provided by Joannides at the time.
My Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, filed in 2003, sought records that would show what Joannides knew about the contacts between the DRE and Oswald, as well as what he reported to his superiors.
In ten years of litigation, CIA officials have stated repeatedly said they will “neither confirm nor deny” the existence of records related to Joannides’s participation in any specific covert project, operation or assignment in the summer of 1963.
The phrase, “neither confirm nor deny,” is a standard CIA response to inquiries about covert operations.
In the Nov. 7 court filing, Machen stated:
“While it is true that Joannides was a CIA officer and liaison to DRE, an anti-Castro group that had a couple (sic) of encounters with Oswald, this doesn’t implicate either Joannides or DRE in the assassination. Even then, the records cited for support by Plaintiff do not pertain to this attenuated connection, and those that do have already been publicly released in the JFK Act collection.”
Machen’s sworn statement erred in saying members of the group had “a couple of encounters” with Oswald.
In fact, the Warren Commission report found that DRE members came in personal contact with Oswald on five different occasions in August 1963.
Lots and lots of smoke there that We the People have a RIGHT to know the cause. Why does the US government STILL lie about George Joannides and CIA’s contacts with Lee Harvey Oswald before the assassination?“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 11:23 am
117. Good News…an attorney/journo was at JFK center
last night: and he was so busy he did not get his piece out, on his website.
But he just gsve me a billable hour freebie update….
I’ll post it when it happens
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #117) May 30, 2017 at 2:40 pm
120. I'll post a new thread from D.C.
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #117) May 30, 2017 at 4:15 pm
126. Thank you!
Please do. Seeing how Corporate McPravda won’t touch the story, it’s up to us who give a damn, Whamzees.“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
bobthedrummer (4471 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 1:08 pm
Abakan (3080 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 1:15 pm
119. Not really anymore…
I have always thought it was a coup d’état.
And the truth would never see the light of day.
Enlightenment (887 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 3:14 pm
122. From an historical viewpoint?
Of course. Whether it is because one (or more) of the various hypotheses holds water or whether they don’t; the issue needs to be put to bed. It won’t happen, unless something really definitive comes to light – but it would be good it did, because –
Because the questions about his assassination have created someone who didn’t really exist. JFK wasn’t a bad President – but he wasn’t a wonderful one. He was charismatic – and young – and full of ideas. He wasn’t mired in the past as much as those before him. Those things, more than his actual body of accomplishments as President, are what people remember.
He accomplished some good things and initiated some others (the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, etc) – but historically a President can only be judged on what he does, not on what he might have done. So, from a personal perspective, I can’t view him as some sort of never-seen-before-never-to-be-seen-again wunderkind. I cannot eulogize him as America’s lost opportunity, because I simply don’t know if that would have been true.All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies. - John Arbuthnot, 1637-1735
Fire with Fire (1735 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 5:08 pm
127. I was 10 years old living in Dallas on 11-22-63
My parents and grandparents were at the Apparel Mart waiting for the President and his party to arrive for the planned event. My father was a casual friend of Jack Ruby.
I was too young to question the official story and I remember what is now a familiar attitude these days coming from my grandmother — she got angry at the people who could not accept the “truth” that Oswald acted alone. To the extent I had an opinion at all as a teenager growing up in Dallas, I went along with Grandma and figured that you had to be “crazy” to doubt what was so obviously true. A deranged left wing lunatic killed the President for idiotic reasons.
This comfortable take on things evaporated one night in 1971 at Eastfield Community College — I heard Mort Sahl speak on the topic . His show was not billed as a Kennedy Assassination Discussion, and he did his regular comedy act for the first half of his time. Then, he shifted from comedy to tragedy and laid out the case made my Jim Garrison. I was not persuaded that night, but I was motivated to find out more about the assassination.
I read Garrison’s book, A Heritage of Stone. The following summer, I transferred to the University of Texas at Austin, one of the few places where you could see the actual volumes of the Warren Report, and I spot checked about 50 of Garrison’s footnotes — all of them scrupulously accurate. This was not an academically qualified effort — but it did convince me that there was lots of evidence (at least 50 footnotes worth) of information that either contradicted or undermined the conclusion of Oswald Acting Alone.
Over the next couple of decades I read probably another dozen or so Assassination books, including some that pushed the Mafia Theory that held Carlos Marcello, mafia boss from New Orleans as the guy who ordered the hit . . . .
. . . and decade after decade I get less interested in the question. I remember a younger guy posting on another website that the Kennedy Assassination took place before he was born — and the guy was already 40. I had to agree he was right that the mystery would remain a mystery probably forever.
I think that we will never know the truth of precisely who did it, who ordered it and why. We do know these facts, however:
Lee Oswald, the person, was not who we were told he was. Not a lonely drifter. Not an ideologue. He was a guy who was taught Russian by the Marine Corps, and then defected to the Soviet Union. He came back to the USA without a hiccup from the Government.
I can imagine a less corrupt scenario that accounts for this — Oswald could have been the patsy for a very small group of assassins. But because of his Intelligence Community connection, the Company could have decided that a bullshit story was necessary as well as a quick death to keep who Oswald really was a secret. In fact, Lyndon Johnson told Walter Cronkite that he never believed the Warren Report because he thought that Oswald was really acting on behalf of Cuba — and if the public knew that it would hard to keep World War III from starting.
I can also imagine a purely corrupt scenario — Jack Kennedy twice told the Joint Chiefs of Staff to fuck themselves over Cuba. First, when the farcical Bay of Pigs “Invasion” fell apart, the Brass Hats told the President that we needed to send our own troops in to protect the guerrillas that had invaded Cuba. Jack said no. He wanted no part of World War III. Second, the Soviets started building their missile launchers on Cuba and the Brass Hats were really in a sweat to get the missiles flying and the bombs dropping. Again Jack said no.
It is my unprovable opinion that Kennedy’s refusal to follow the “advice” of the Joint Chiefs and the Intelligence Agencies that cost him his life and us our Republic.
Rome was like this, too.
clg311 (79 posts) (Reply to Fire with Fire - post #127) May 31, 2017 at 8:26 pm
140. I was 10 years old too.
I turned 11 the day he was buried. I think Oswald acted alone. JFK ordered the coup that killed Diem three weeks before so karma bit him in the ass. And he tried to kill Castro too. Killing Diem made our escalation in Vietnam more likely no matter who was president.
Phlem (901 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 5:24 pm
Piperay (927 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 5:49 pm
DesmondFoster (64 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 6:37 pm
130. The truth always matters.
No matter how inconvenient or painful. So even though I was born after JFK was assassinated, I absolutely wish we knew beyond shadow of a doubt who was the killer.
WillyT (12548 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 6:55 pm
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to original post) May 30, 2017 at 7:14 pm
132. Hey Octa…please take a look at this JFK item?
Octafish (3771 posts) (Reply to Whamzees - post #132) May 31, 2017 at 7:01 am
134. Ian Shapira must be a well-paid disinformationist.
That article creates the impression JFK cared for himself and the wealthy, in that order. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Despite knowing his enemies were actively gunning for him, he chose to appear in public and communicate what he wanted to accomplish as President — keeping the peace and bringing prosperity to all.
Here’s one example of what JFK was up against. Georgia Law Professor Emeritus Wilkes details the story — from before Adams went whistleblower:
DID HE KNOW JFK TO DIE?
Author: Donald E. Wilkes, Jr., Professor of Law, University of Georgia School of Law.
Published in The Athens Observer, p. 2A (February 12,1987).
A south Georgian named Joseph Milteer, now dead, represents a second possible Georgia connection to the assassination of President Kennedy. According to FBI documents published by the noted assassinations expert Harold Weisberg in this book Frame-Up in 1971, Joseph Adams Milteer was born in Quitman, Ga., on Feb. 26, 1902. Thus, at the time of the assassination, Milteer was 61 years old. In 1963 he apparently lived in both Quitman and Valdosta. Like many of the persons who were eyewitnesses to Kennedy’s death, or who have been suspected of involvement in the Kennedy assassination, Milteer apparently died a violent and unnatural death. According to Robert Groden, a photographic expert who worked for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, Milteer died of burns in 1974 at the age of 72 after a Coleman heating stove exploded.
Information concerning Milteer and his possible connection to the JFK assassination is not new. Milteer’s possible connection was first divulged (although his name was not mentioned) in a Miami newspaper in an article by a reporter named Bill Barry as far back as Feb. 2, 1967. The FBI presented information on Milteer to the Warren Commission, although Milteer is not mentioned in the Warren Commission Report or in the 26 volumes published by the Commission.
Who was Joseph Milteer? On this question there is general agreement. Miller was a segregationist and arch-conservative on the far right. In his co-authored book The Plot to Kill the President (1981), G. Robert Blakey, who served as counsel for the House Assassinations Committee, describes Milteer as “a right-wing extremist.” Anthony Summers, in his 1980 book Conspiracy, uses similar language (“a known right-wing extremist”) to describe Milteer, as does Henry Hurt (“an ultra-right wing Georgia business man” in his Reasonable Doubt, published in 1985, and the best single book on the assassination, Michael Kurtz’s Crime of the Century (1982), calls Milteer “a well-known right-wing extremist.”
The House Assassinations Committee referred to Milteer variously as “a militant conservative,” “a militant right-wing organizer,” and “a right-wing extremist.” Milteer was apparently associated with the National States Rights Party and the White Citizens Council and actively opposed to integration and social justice.
On the morning of Nov. 9, 1963, two weeks before the Kennedy assassination, Milteer engaged in a conversation in a Miami hotel room with a man named Willie Somersett. Apparently unknown to Milteer, Somersett (who died in 1970), was an informer for the police who surreptitiously tape-recorded the conversation. The tape was promptly turned over to local Miami police, who then forwarded it to federal authorities. The taped conversation was revealed for the first time publicly in the Miami News in February 1967, although Milteer’s named was not mentioned. The Miami News article was quoted at length (again without mentioning Milteer’s name) in Harold Weisberg’s Oswald in New Orleans, also published in 1967. In 1971 in Frame-Up Weisberg published a transcript of the taped conversation, together with various FBI documents relating to Milteer. This time Milteer’s name was given. In 1979 the House Assassinations Committee included information on Milteer in several of its published volumes, and quoted verbatim an excerpt from the transcript of his Nov. 9, 1963 conversation with Somersett.
According to the House Committee transcript, Milteer told Somersett that the killing of Kennedy “was in the working,” that the president could be killed “rom an office building with a high-powered rifle,” that the rifle could be “disassembled” to get it into the building, and that “hey will pick up somebody within hours afterward, if anything like that would happen just to throw the public off.” He also mentioned “the Cubans.”
When Miami police turned the tape-recorded conversation over to the Secret Service and FBI, there was a flurry of activity and extra security precautions were taken to protect the president on his trip to Miami, which took place on Nov. 18, the Monday before the Friday assassination. However, information about the Milteer remarks apparently was not passed on to Secret Service officials responsible for the trip to Dallas.
Here, then, is a second possible Georgia connection to the JFK assassination: less than two weeks before the president’s death, a Georgia political extremist on the far right was recorded saying things that indicate–at least in retrospect–that he knew not only of a plot to kill the president but also some of the details of the plot. Milteer’s statements, as noted, were taken seriously by federal authorities; and the Secret Service’s Miami office filed on Milteer was entitled “Alleged Possible Threat Against the President.”
However, the recorded conversation of Nov. 9, 1963 is not the only evidence of the possibility of a Georgia connection through Joseph Milteer to the JFK killing. According to FBI documents published by Harold Weisberg, Milteer told an informer (presumably Somersett) in an unrecorded conversation in Jacksonville, Fla., on the afternoon of the assassination: “Everything ran true to form. I guess you thought I was kidding you when I said he would be killed from a window with a high-powered rifle.”
More from the FBI guy who came out and said Hoover knew:“Get the truth and print it.” -- John S. Knight
Whamzees (829 posts) (Reply to Octafish - post #134) May 31, 2017 at 10:00 am
136. Thanks for this
You can do a War & Peace book of the links to all the information the Warren Commission failed to address.
Fargin Bastages (31 posts) (Reply to original post) June 4, 2017 at 12:50 am
141. I remember that day clearly, even though I wasn't quite 11 years old. The world
wept for the loss of a great man, but not the first, that would most certainly have created a democracy. The Kennedy’s
Check out this link about JFK Jr’s death.
and this one that I’ve never heard before.