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Home Main Forums General Discussion DUmocrats Missing the Point: RE: Millenials

  • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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    DUmocrats Missing the Point: RE: Millenials

    Democrats Lose Ground with Millenials


    Saw in another place that they could not figure out why this is the case.  Also, thinking that it means that Millenials will then go towards Republicans.  Completely missing the point that it is a trust issue rather than a voting issue.

    Chances are, these individuals of who I am technically part of would either 1) Not Vote, 2) Vote 3rd Party, or 3) Vote who they perceive is the better candidate by their actions on the issues they deign important.

    As Glenn Greenwald rightfully states, that one of the reasons quite a few people hate Democrats is that they feel entitled to people’s votes.  That they think that by their inherent superiority, people should just vote for and side with them.  Which then pretty much says, that they didn’t do anything wrong, stops any sort of introspection, and just blames voters for not voting for them.  Which is all sorts of fucked up since it ignores the fact that the system is not working, as well as the other indications of corruption within their party that they would rather hide.

    Thing is, it is not enough to say they have values, when their actions directly contradict it.  Like Perez, talking without any sort of meaning, providing broad assertions about values without actually saying what they are, nor actual policy positions that they would fight for.  Well, except guns.  Guns are easy, since it is a wedge issue that they don’t actually want to fix, and brings a surge of emotions that they could ride and campaign on.  Of course, I have no trust that they really want to do anything with it though.

    This is especially the case when every single person that the DNC and DCCC has been pushing are moderate business friendly individuals who they can label as a Democrat.  That’s pretty much it.  The Democratic Party is plainly Business friendly and “moderate” means whatever is popular at the moment or whatever they can get away with.

    Which pretty much mean:

    • Pro-war
    • Anti-whistleblower
    • Pro-business/corporate lobby
    • Pro-fracking/oil interest
    • Pro-voter and candidate suppression

    Many other things, but Pro-Worker is definitely not one of them.

    TIME TO PANIC, DesertRat2015, HeartoftheMidwest and 54 othersHawkowl, zoewashburne, gordyfl, Piperay, Stockholmer, MrMickeysMom, DoctorJ, Bisbonian, Coldmountaintrail, eridani, Pastiche, Elizabeth, Koko, pa28, ThomPaine, Satan, Silver Witch, B Calm, nevereVereven, iggy, NJOCK, Two way street, Babel 17, ccinamon, relgire, Marym625, PennLawyer, CalGoldenBear, Bernblu, kath, NothingcleverjustRay, 3FingerBrown, caliny, Baba OhReally, Enthusiast, frylock, DamnYankeeInHouston, Populist Prole, Utopian Leftist, disillusioned73, Pam, Go Vols, xynthee, area woman, MistaP, ravensong, graycat, chknltl, djean111, canoeist52, Betty Karlson, , N2Doc, davidthegnome like this

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  • 3 weeks ago #27
  • 3 weeks ago #31
    • HawkeyeX (1212 posts)
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      1. They're also missing the point.

      Identity politics doesn’t work.

      • Ramming preferred candidates for the DCCC over people’s choice
      • Ignoring every popular mandate that was installed in the Democratic platform
      • Ignorning the people’s preferred choices of candidates and bullying people in guise of fundraisers
      • Giving lip service to the people and cash the corporate checks.



      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        8. I agree.

        Identity Politics does not work.  It divides people in groups, which forces these groups to compete against each other.

        Not only that, in their play to make Identity Politics their primary objective, it has made them look ridiculous, and unable to keep their hypocrisy and breaks in logic checked.  It also is a moving target that morphs without any sort of consistency.  What is acceptable now, would be unacceptable later, and so forth.  Rather than actually improve themselves and have some sort of movement towards the common good, they are prey to falling for everything.

        Which is why I keep saying that, as long as someone is in their so called tribal party group, they become considered perfect and protected.  Meaning, they are unable to look at a group or politician in a balanced light.

        Many have moved beyond party, and too bad for them, but it is a trend that seems to be accelerating.


        • Silver Witch (6485 posts)
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          32. This!

          Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost~John Quincy Adams  
          • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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            33. And yet, they are really trying hard to sell the case for Identity Politics


            In that topic of mine, I slammed in to a CNN article saying that Democrats should keep going with Identity Politics rather than Economic Issues.

            I even read the damn report they were referencing which is complete and utter dreck since the study is: 1) concentrating on one group of voters which is in general white and male, 2) it separates Economic hardship/position from what it then calls “Status“.”

            It was pretty ridiculous.

            • Silver Witch (6485 posts)
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              34. Off to follow the link.

              Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost~John Quincy Adams  
      • ThouArtThat (6901 posts)
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        14. Democratic Platform – What A Waste Of Paper


        "In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous  
        • Elizabeth (15 posts)
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          35. Re: the platform

          Bernie’s representatives (5) battled the Clinton/DNC representatives (12) on the platform drafting comittee, but were outvoted on several issues:

          They below refers to Clinton/DNC.

          1.  They support fracking.

          2.  They support the TPP.

          3.  They support the Israeli occupation of Palestine.

          4.  They do not support a $15 wage tied to inflation.

          5.  They do not support a carbon tax.

          6.  They do not support single-payer.






    • N2Doc (6500 posts)
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      2. Trump is a dream for the 'Democratic' establishment

      By being so ugly and obnoxious, it makes it possible (at least in their minds) to not have to run FOR anything. Just run AGAINST Trump. Keep all your corporate masters happy, they are fine calling themselves whatever so long as the $$$ and repression keep flowing.

      "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        9. That is why he was the preferred candidate they wanted to run against.

        Problem was, they couldn’t figure out that Hillary was just that godawful.

      • Coldmountaintrail (6426 posts)
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        38. "Trump is a dream for the 'Democratic' establishment"

        yes; interesting, that

    • amylsacks (343 posts)
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      3. The Vote Entitlement Schtick Isn't New

      As an early X-er who bolted the Dem party 18 years ago, I can vouch for that.

      Sadly, I have no idea how the generations broke for the Greens back then. Even if that tiny bloc was mostly Xers, nobody would care. At any rate, I was already 34 years old and so hardly a kid anymore. Though plenty of my elders were more than ready to talk down to me as if I were a damn toddler. [rolleyes]

      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        10. That's really sad. See, I considered the Democratic Party a vehicle for change.

        What 2016 and the years that followed has done, was show me the error of that thinking.  I still think that as Obama has said, that if we are unhappy with our elected politicians, we should then either go in to office, or support those whose actions and values are in line with what we want.

        Unfortunately, after the 2016 election all I see from the majority of the Democratic Party Establishment is as follows:

        • Blaming everyone else for their loss
        • Blaming a scapegoat for their loss
        • Ignoring the reason they were wiped out in the House and Senate
        • Suppressing any sort of Primary Challenges to favored incumbents
        • Choosing a candidate early for a position rather than letting an actual primary play out
        • Completely being resistant to any sort of change in direction
        • Being mostly business friendly and apparently against Unions.  (As evidenced by their support of Amazon, and anger towards teachers and nurses)

        The fact that they are playing around with the elections, through various processes against primary challengers while complaining about how unfair general elections are, makes me think they are absolute hypocrites that don’t really care about the sanctity of the electoral process any way.

        So the idea that the Democratic Party would be the best vehicle for Progressive change, is being proven to be a lie, and it is through the courts and ballot measures that I have found more movement.  It just amazes me how quickly those assholes take credit, completely brushing aside those that actually worked hard in the process.

        • amylsacks (343 posts)
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          29. They Used To Take Great Stock In Scolding Us…

          …for not availing ourselves of the sacrosanct primary system. They made a big show of claiming we could have their respect, time, and good faith if we’d only try to get into office that way.

          [whistles, stares at ceiling]

          Yyyeahhhh…. :P

          • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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            30. Yep! That is still their plan it seems.

            Scold the voters for not seeing their innate superiority, and that we should be kissing their feet for the privilege of voting for them.

    • Average Gazoo (1993 posts)
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      4. read one take on all the Republican retirements that

      asserted that they will help the GOP because voters of all ages crave those perceived as outsiders.  Preference for Dems in generic polls have been sliding as the DNC/DCCC stays with their Russia campaign.

      Retiring Pelosi, Schumer and DWS could help the Dems but none of those retirements will happen.  The Tom Perez suit is about the worst move they could make as it ensures that voters will be reminded of DNC corruption throughout the 2018 election season.

      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        11. I can only agree. All it does is ensure that the 2016 elections stays fresh.

        Ensuring that many Democrats and historically Democratic voters would be refighting the 2016 primaries.

        Not to mention the fact that they still have not dealt with all the Primary shenanigans that they are pulling right now.  It just makes them look disgusting.

    • HassleCat (2888 posts)
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      5. They think the masses are asses.

      Identity politics have killed the party into believing they can command voter loyalty by repeatedly sauing, “We love you! We really, really love you!” While selling out the public interest and beating up on anyone who doesn’t toe the party line. Too many voters realize they are getting scammed, but the party is determined to stay the course, all the way off the cliff.

      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        12. That is true.

        Though as I said, the Identity Politics thing, all it really does now is divide us all to have to compete for resources.

        Rather than making sure that they are fighting for everyone as a whole.  They instead are chastising workers.  They add race in there, but in essence it is ALL workers that they are slamming.

        That people are hurting means they are less sympathetic to the plight of others, as they are struggling to survive.  It creates an environment where people are blaming each other and at each others’ throats rather than being able to look to how the system itself and our leaders themselves bringing everyone down.

        Identity Politics is their method of not talking about possible solutions, by inserting a group that has to be protected or put on the forefront, which then stops any sort of progress, and then they could say… “See?  We tried”.  Ugh.

        • Populist Prole (1006 posts)
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          18. IMO, identity politics are just the instrument, not so much the goal

          To the leaders or mouthpieces of the various identity group factions, yes it is about advancing whatever cause or “ism”.

          BUT….To the party establishment, identity politics is used just to exclude economic equality from the discourse. Social issues doesn’t cost the PTB shit. Talk of economic inequality makes them uneasy.

          • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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            25. Yep, it is the instrument used to stop progress elsewhere.

            That is how I currently see it.  Since all it does, is to ensure that there are inequities, and forces people to identify with certain groups, and pick sides.

            I absolutely dislike it.  I can understand the need for some of it, but at the moment, when we are pretty much all universally struggling, it is best to concentrate on matters that would help everyone as a whole.

            So yep, I agree with you.

        • Coldmountaintrail (6426 posts)
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          39. +++

          when folks keep doing the same thing over and over despite having it pointed out how counterproductive it is, one is led to assume that the ‘counterproductive’ aspects are entirely what’s desired

          • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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            41. Yep!

    • Bernin4U (812 posts)
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      6. Hell, we know who's fault THAT is…

      But it’s not like they were ever True Democrats to begin with.

    • MistaP (8488 posts)
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      7. saying Trump isn't getting us deep enough into wars, that's another one

      http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        13. Sad how there does not seem to be an Anti-War party any more.

        • MistaP (8488 posts)
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          15. quite frightening actually, like when most Dem Senators backed Iraq

          because that meant it was no longer the crazy plan of superannuated Cold Warriors and oilmen, but sober policy–Vietnam vets and literal draft dodgers said Iraq was a threat and the only question is how to go about deposing him; the same disproportionate effect happened with the New Atheists–the flashiest defenders of reason and middle-school science against the oily hypocrites and deranged lying cultists said, yeah, Islam is the enemy and we need a crusade

          Trump’s the only noninterventionist-ish fly in the ointment: we’d be balls-deep under happy Cold Warriors Jeb (he was central in setting up the Contra cocaine pipeline in FL and kiboshing drug and murder investigations of the CIA mobsters involved) or Rubio as well as Clinton, though She took Russia personally

          Sanders and Stein and Sawant have all agreed that Russia’s our biggest and most implacable enemy and tried to undermine our democracy and manipulated the left

          http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
          • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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            17. That is actually very scary.

            Makes no sense to me either.

          • eridani (4633 posts)
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            36. True, but a majority of Dems in both houses voted against n/t

            You've heard of the Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West, right?  I'm the Morally Ambiguous Witch of the Northwest.
        • Utopian Leftist (641 posts)
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          16. Our corporate masters must be having

          the all-time, most colossal of laughs . . . at our expense.

          After all, the gullible ‘Murikan sheep fall into their trap year after year, voting the “lessor of two evils,” while they simply relocate the goal posts. We are no more “free” or democratic than the serfs before Magna Carta or the peasants before the revolution/s.

          I do wish this nation had ONE viable party for people who care about peace more than they care about money. But if it did, the corporate bozos would be out on their asse(t)s and never be sold the opportunity to rape and pillage the people again.

          The beatdown Hillary was handed had nothing to do with Bernie Bros, Russia, a VRWC, Comey, the FBI, the media, sexism, racism or any other ism you can think of. It was a referendum on neoliberalism. It is your legacy, Obama. It’s Clinton fatigue born of endless scandals. It’s war and prison for profit. It’s criminality that dresses itself up like saintliness and looks down its nose at its victims. ~ farleftlib
          • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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            21. You got that right about the moving goal posts.

            It just gets worse and worse.  That is the problem with the Democrats.  Their goal posts goes to the Right, further and further, that they are completely unrecognizable just 10-15 years prior.

    • shaayecanaan (734 posts)
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      19. By any standard, this is an extraordinary collapse over just two years

      “Two years ago, young white people favored Democrats over Republicans for Congress by a margin of 47 to 33 percent; that gap vanished by this year, with 39 percent supporting each party.

      The shift was especially dramatic among young white men, who two years ago favored Democrats but now say they favor Republicans over Democrats by a margin of 46 to 37 percent, the Reuters/Ipsos poll showed.”

      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        24. That is true.

        Then again, they have not done anything to improve themselves.  Also, they went and gone off the deep end with Russia, which many just don’t believe.

        There are so many things that have alienated people.  They still think they are superior, which is dumb as all hell.

    • Eleanors38 (1109 posts)
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      20. Increasingly, some observers are taking note of the GunzGunzGunz exception

      to the general malaise and blandness of Democratis Party politics.  The glare of exception to the rule has long passed that of a woman’s right to choose.  Gunz stands alone as the high totem in centrist Democratic politics.  I have theorized on this before, and won’t go over it again.  But if you wish to fight a culture war against who you perceive as the enemy (white, run-of-the-mill males and Southerners in general) I can’t think of a bigger land mine outside your own barracks.

      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        23. Again, to me, it is merely a wedge issue that they don't want to solve.

        And you’re probably right about that.

    • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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      22. And most of all Pro Wall Street. Even if it blows up the economy.

      "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        26. That is the sad part about it.

        The pride of saying “Look at the scraps we saved for you” falls flat when what is taken away makes it that much harder to survive.

        And I am sorry to say, that was the case during Obama, and especially Bill Clinton with the gutting of welfare and their attempts to screw us with SS.

    • TRex (4487 posts)
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      27. Lulz @ PUMAs

      They are a very impressive breed of troll over at SV, even to this day they are dividing up the few remaining posters that post there. I guess the trolls won’t be happy until all that is left are their own sock accounts.

      They get why millennial are unhappy, they just don’t give a shit – that has always been their underlying attitude toward just about everything in life.



      Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?  
      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        28. It is a problem. I also do not understand the blame game towards voters.

        It is quite ridiculous.  Talk to most people online, many want to vote, though are very unhappy with the choices provided.

        I still vote, but I understand the reticence of individuals who say that they wouldn’t since it feels they legitimize the actions/inactions of the politicians that they have voted for, and feel responsibility for it.  I completely understand that.

    • Marym625 (29835 posts)
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      31. On The Daily Radical

      Sorry I’m late in getting this up.

      Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • dlegendary1 (1081 posts)
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      37. Kinda reminds me of this meme

      These mofos at the DNC can lick mah balls! I'm not voting or supporting their 3rd way goons.
      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        40. Yikes…

        Sad but true.  Especially when one considers that in regards to voting, that is where they lost the bulk of their voters.

    • MrMickeysMom (1970 posts)
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      42. They've been missing the point for years…

      I’m convinced that many of them have millennials still in their house who can’t make it on their own very well. They don’t know how easy it was for them to get theirs, given that the vast majority ARE boomers (my generation) who never understood what the hell their own parents went through during WWII.

      My generation pisses me off eternally. They are so much not me. Were they, they’d have decided long ago what happened to their party.

      Hell no...I'm not giving up...     cat-gif-238.gif giphy.gif
      • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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        43. Considering the inflation and all the added administrative costs

        That are now in almost every single facet of living nowadays.

        I can only say I agree.  America has gotten hit by Fee-ism too, where things that used to be part of service, now is a “Convenience Fee”, ballooning costs even more.