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Home Main Forums General Discussion Gotterdammerung

  • Fire with Fire (1355 posts)
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    Definition of Götterdämmerung:

    a collapse (as of a society or regime) marked by catastrophic violence and disorder;  broadly  : downfall the Götterdämmerung of Communism


    No matter which of a near infinity of competing versions of current “reality” in the United States of America you choose to believe, the only common denominator among them is that something has gone horribly wrong with our society.  The two major parties are to all appearances mainly interested in putting each other in jail.

    Meanwhile self described conservatives who do not support the supposed party of limited government and fiscal responsibility watch dumfounded as the GOP runs up trillions upon trillions of Federal debt while continually expanding the power of the Federal Government over the lives of the citizenry.

    On what the Main Stream Media calls the far left, there is a cacophony of dissent and disgust of the Democratic Party and its major media supporters.  But there is no single world view, even on JPR.

    Some, like myself, believe that our “democracy” has been dead, at least since 2000, due to overt manipulation of the election process.  Starting with Bush v. Gore, and continuing through insecure electronic voting, highly sophisticated voter suppression techniques and the manipulation of primary election rules, the established power structure has severed the link between what the voting age majority wants and who runs the government.

    Others continue to berate the Hillary Clinton campaign for its stupid electioneering techniques, lament the bizarre activity of the Democratic National Committee and furiously debate the merits of a Third Party versus a takeover of the Democratic Party.  The only way that any of this line of thinking makes any sense is if you maintain some sort of faith in the election process.

    Some, like myself, believe that Democracy has been supplanted already and replaced by a strange amalgam of authoritarianism and anarchy.  The lock step unity of the Main Stream Media in support of War Forever shows the authoritarian side.  The absurd “bi-partisan” votes in the Congress to give Trump more power; to support his every military adventure; to increase his Defense Budget; to put sanctions of Russia, Iran and North Korea; — all this shows me that the furious rhetorical war between Trump and his Democratic and Liberal critics is a sham.

    Others buy into the nuts and bolts of the “investigation” of Trump, and debate whether Trump or Pence would be worse while speculating over what evidence Mueller will be able to squeeze out of the various assholes and shady characters who associate with Trump.  The only way to take the succession of “bombshells” seriously, is to be believe that there is still respect for objective reality within the halls of American power.

    What unifies us all in this — both left and right, both party loyalists and party renegades — is that something illegitimate is going on.  Either Trump was installed by the Russians or some mendacious assholes are lying about it.  One side or the other of that debate is committing a serious crime against democracy and the rule of law.

    Never before in American history have the main stream institutions of civic life — elected officials, the political party structures, what used to be called The Press — attacked the credibility of our institutions so stridently.  The powerful are telling us that they need more power to bring justice back to our Republic — even as they supposedly are trying to put each other in jail.  There is only one word for a political system with no legitimacy and no single ruling power — anarchy.

    Yet, those two parties somehow manage to get over their mutual desire to lock each other up to vote for war.


    Fourteen years ago, on another board I wrote a post that got some attention and got reposted to some other boards.  It deals with the questions that have now brought our politics to its current utterly irrational stalemate:


    That Nazi Moment

    From time to time, here and at our predecessor board, somebody raises the question of how much Bush is like Adolf Hitler. The conversation is invariably shallow, with the world-weary eggheads rolling their eyes out of their sockets while trouncing the angry lefty who raised the question in the first place. Bush offers no hint of wanting to exterminate the Jews or any other similar genocidal madness, and that pretty much kills the comparison for any practical purpose.

    I bring up Hitler in the same breath with Bush for another reason altogether. I assume that Bush will never propose mass executions and he will therefore never deserve to be called “another Hitler.” But he damn sure is a sui generis W — and the depth and breadth of what he is capable of doing is still unknown.

    For people living in Germany, there never was a point where either the aspiring Nazi Party or the governing Nazi Reich ever announced:

    “We are nihilistic madmen who will start unprovoked wars against Poland, France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Yugoslavia, Great Britain, Greece, the USSR and the USA — and try to conquer all those societies at once. We will attack the cities of our enemies from the air in an effort to destroy their civilization, so that we can take over and demand fealty from everybody on the planet. We will hunt down and slaughter all the Jews and Gypsies in Europe, because we think the world will be a better place after they are gone.


    “We know that our wars of aggression and our systematic genocide will induce the most profound anger the world has ever seen, and millions of our people will be killed in this regime of Total War. There is a chance that we will lose this war, as we will be significantly outnumbered by our enemies. If we lose, our country will be occupied by foreigners who will define our future for us.

    “Nevertheless we have a vision for the future of our Folk — and our destiny is to rule the world as we are the best people on earth.”


    History shows that thousands of people, particularly German Jews, foresaw parts or all of this fate in advance. But millions of Germans, and millions of people the world over, did not believe that Hitler would really be as bad as all that. In hindsight, it is easy for us to say that everybody should have realized that the man was a psychopathic lunatic. But for those that figured it out ahead of time, they must have had a Nazi Moment — the last straw that confirmed that Hitler really meant to bring death and destruction to the entire world.


    I have often wondered about That Nazi Moment — what it would be like to be a student in Munich or Dresden or Berlin in 1933 or 34 or 36 or 38? You could choose to believe that the authoritarian measures of the Reich were unfortunate but beyond your control. You could regard the harassment of Jews to be unfortunate but beyond your control. You could regard the bizarre symbolism and mass hysteria of the Nazi movement as unfortunate but beyond your control. You have your own life to lead in any event. By seeing the future accurately, as some did, you pretty much condemned yourself to death or exile.

    In 2004, you really can’t know for sure what the Bush Administration is capable of doing. But here are the pieces of a puzzle that could match anything that Hitler did:


    1. Ideology. The Project for a New American Century contends that the USA has determined the correct political structure for all societies — secular democracy with free markets. It is now the official National Security Policy of the United States to use our military to coerce other countries to adopt this “single model” of national development.

    2. War. The incumbent President has responded to the crimes of September 11 by declaring war against all “evil.” This preposterous formulation carries no limiting context, no practical guide to discriminating more evil from less evil or evil from the merely awful. In practice, this purposefully vague theory of fighting evil has been used to link a war against Afghanistan (which was partially responsible for the September 11 attacks) to a war against Iraq (which had nothing to do with September 11) on the grounds that Iraq was run by the sort of people who would commit further acts of terrorism if they had the chance. Tens of millions of Americans support George W. Bush’s war against Iraq for precisely this reason. Obviously, this rationale for war is infinitely elastic.

    3. Power. The current government now claims the right to designate any American citizen an “enemy combatant” with no means of questioning the designation. Anybody so designated is thereby stripped of citizenship, and all constitutional rights. No courts, no lawyers, no press, no calls to friends — just, poof — you are now an un-person. Meanwhile, the current government contends that its troops in the field are answerable to no law other than that of the military command structure.

    4. Prisons. The current government has already built a chain of detention centers around the world that are shrouded in secrecy and where physical coercion is at the sole discretion of the jailers. The information age has made it impossible to keep all of the details of these installations secret — bizarre sexual rituals and systematic degradation are the tools of choice in trying to coerce detainees to give up information about other targets of the infinite war on terror.

    5. Dishonesty. Here is where it gets frightening. The only limit on any of these four elements of infinte control is the conscience of the government. They start from the premise that they are fighting evil, and therefore they define themselves as good. All abuse and any mistakes they make are always cast in contrast to the Evil of Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein — we may put underwear on your head, but they will cut your head off. If you go further and challenge their motivations directly, they declare you a supporter of the terrorists. These cheap rhetorical games are bad enough, and ought to scare anybody with half a brain to death. But when you realize that these are all serial liars who never tell the same story twice, you realize that what deep shit we are in when they say, “Trust us.”



    At least they’re not Hitler. At least they’re not gassing Jews. At least they’re not killing their political opponents.

    So here’s the question. Let’s view everything about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft in the most favorable light as of June 1, 2004. Let’s regard all these assertions of unilateral power as designed only to prevent further terrorist attacks against the US and our allies. Let’s assume that only real terrorists are likely to be sent to Gitmo without due process of law.

    OK, for now.

    What should a vigilant American be on the lookout for in case these guys aren’t as good as they claim they are? What detail would convince us that instead of earnest men trying to protect the citizenry we have nihilistic madmen driving the whole world toward death and destruction?

    What would be that Bush moment?


    My fear is that Bush and his colleagues believe that the demographic shifts in America that obliged them to sue to their way into the White House in 2000 have convinced them that the American experiment with mass democracy must come to an end. The War on Terror is their stalking horse for shitcanning the whole business of individual rights and popular government. They dream of conquering the Middle East, just as we once conquered the American West, and they realize that they cannot make this happen within the four corners of the Constitution.

    They believe that America must be recast into a permanent warfare state, with millions of young people trained to occupy Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Democracy must be controlled or abandoned, and all who might interfere with their grand vision for Global Empire must be suppressed by whatever means necessary.

    I fear that these messianic madmen are psychologically incapable of grasping the concept of defeat — that they are all overgrown adolescents who cannot govern their own petty egos. So they have carefully set up the mechanism for a global police state under cover of the catastrophe of September 11, assuming that once their dream is accomplished and all the Middle East is tamed, then the American People will bow down at their feet to worship the men who had the boldness to capitalize on the opportunity of being the only superpower at the dawn of the New American Century.

    Their minds cannot grasp the possibility that we might get our asses kicked on the ground in the Middle East.

    So, assuming for a moment that the PNAC manifestos should be read like Mein Kampf, what should tip off the average American that we are not dealing with honest men trying to protect us from terrorists, but instead are faced with a gaggle of bloodthirsty fools consumed by the painfully familiar dream of Napoleon and Hitler?

    The one answer that I will not accept is they wouldn’t do that. That’s what the people who stayed in Germany thought.


    A gaggle of bloodthirsty fools consumed by the painfully familiar dream of Napoleon and Hitler have minds that cannot grasp the possibility of getting their asses kicked on the ground in the Middle East are getting their asses kicked.  By usurping the Constitution they have inadvertently usurped their own pecking order and now we have chaos.

    As grim as the Nazi Moment is when you have it, all is not hopeless at all. More on that in a later post.  This one is too long already.

    Peace Patriot, LaaDeeDaaVA, hypergrove and 29 othersJEB, Scott Crowder, Major Hogwash, eridani, nevereVereven, PuffGranny, canoeist52, Pam, chknltl, Babel 17, Koko, ccinamon, davidthegnome, Marym625, cleverflamingo, Iwalani88, Ohio Barbarian, Betty Karlson, Cleita, Coyote Walks, PADemD, Doremus Jessup, djean111, iggy, Enthusiast, jwirr, MistaP, NV Wino, Bernin4U like this

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    • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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      1. Recommended to the max! This is why the PNAC created/designed 911.

      It was to be the American version of “Shock and Awe”. Designed to shock the American populace into compliance. And boy did it work. Hey, it simply cannot be a coincidence. They needed a 21st Century Pearl Harbor so they created one.

      I understand you probably disagree.

      "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
      • Fire with Fire (1355 posts)
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        2. I don't disagree

        I’m not sure precisely whether it was MIHOP, LIHOP or random luck.  My point is that it does not really matter as it has worked for the  PNAC game plan perfectly.

        And the impossibility of knowing for sure — from JFK, MLK and RFK on through to “gas” just this month — that is the Nazi Moment for me.  I am ready to believe that governments lie in all ages and circumstances, and there is nothing that “they wouldn’t do.”  What they actually did is bad enough to deserve a thousand lifetimes in solitary confinement, even if you give them a pass on MIHOP.

        • RufusTFirefly (3529 posts)
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          5. MIHOP or LIHOP, it was a textbook example of the Shock Doctrine

          The government didn’t cause Hurricane Katrina (at least not directly), but that didn’t prevent it from using the “opportunity” to privatize New Orleans schools in the midst of the chaos and confusion.

          In another context, Condi Rice inadvertently disclosed the neocon philosophy when she described the 2005 tsunami as a “wonderful opportunity.” And before she became a Hill shill, Barbara Boxer did a good job of castigating her for that revealing remark:

          Sen. Boxer: Dr. Rice, … when Senator Voinovich mentioned the issue of tsunami relief, you said — your first words were, “The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity for us.” Now, the tsunami was one of the worst tragedies of our lifetime — one of the worst — and it’s going to have a 10-year impact on rebuilding that area. I was very disappointed in your statement. I think you blew the opportunity. You mention it as part of one sentence. And I would hope to work with you on this, because children are suffering, we’re worried they’re going to get in the sex trade. This thing is a disaster, a true natural disaster and a human disaster of great proportions, and I hope that the State Department will take a huge lead under your leadership in helping those folks in the long range.

      • Doremus Jessup (3957 posts)
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        3. I sure agree.

        Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity. End ALL occupations and bring the troops home.
      • TRex (4487 posts)
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        15. Signed by Dick Cheney himself, later redacted and something we never hear about.

        All those chickenhawks, all looking to make a deal with the devil. And now we have the largest mess in modern US history, a quagmire of regional conflicts all over the ME. How many have we killed? How many have we turned into a hardcore enemy of America? What is the exit strategy or was there ever one? Will we make it to the 25 year mark, we already passed it up in Iraq.

        All because investment bankers smelled blood in the waters and got both parties to do the devil’s bidding. I will never forgive them for this, it led to 2000, 9/11, 2003 and more wars with more bloodshed and death. More profits for far too few.

        And at home we had the Second Depression, thousands of families lost their homes. Had there never been a PNAC and assholes evil enough to inact it, none of those things would have happened. We would have 5 trillion dollars going somewhere else into society, not wasted on bullets and bombs.

        I doubt very many people in 2018 would diasgree with you.


        Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?  
        • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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          16. Thanks, TRex.

          All the good will created by the USA years ago is gone with the wind. Now we are seen as a rogue state bent on destruction.

          "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
    • MistaP (8488 posts)
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      4. that's what the neocons wanted throughout the 90s, why they took

      the opportunity to steal the 2000 election–itself a very dangerous erosion of democracy, a paper coup

      based on Readiness Exercise 80s updates to Northwoods and the ADEX, the Patriot Act’s body blow to the Constitution was in the barrel without 9/11–it could’ve been a damburst

      self-repost https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/stephen-kinzer-hoisting-the-false-flag/

      in Berlin and Korea Russia was seen as following the same Rhineland-Saar-Sudeten-Austria-Poland pattern, every time having sitdowns and negotiations and then breaking them; and this enemy was more insidious and powerful than Germany ever was, basically an anti-America with nukes: any revolution or unrest in an ally was ipso facto Soviet according to Nitze’s doctrine

      like WWII we were right, we were justified, we were on the side of the angels–the Cold War was about the Four Freedoms and the Marshall Plan as much as antileftism

      so this was the 50s attitude–Britain’s attempt at overcoming “Chamberlain syndrome” brought it Suez and the dissolution of its superpower status

      then detente and Vietnam made us reevaluate all our prior assumptions–the Korean People’s Republic, Arbenz, Lumumba, Ho, Sihanouk, Castro, Ortega all started off friendly to the US and thinking we’d be their allies; every president from Truman to Nixon came in aggro but left office convinced we could make nice with Russia; the Cold War was restricting our possibilities

      but then the neocons came in 1980 and flipped the script–Vietnam was now a reason for more wars against the Reds, that we were going to avenge the loss (we’d won, really, it was just the treasonous journalists), give Moscow a taste of its own medicine for backing all global terrorism, give its proxy forces and staged revolutions some “rollback”

      all signs seemed good for Iraq 2003–they really believed it’d be over by Christmas: after all Panama, Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo, Serbia went off well (for us) while the Ramsey Clark types wrung their hands about “a new Vietnam” and were proven wrong over and over

      15 years later while Iraq really is the biggest disaster in memory and the Color Revolutions were a flop, they’re still scrambling for some one easy-to-fix mistake they made 2002-8 so they can avoid it; many of them even see Iraq and Libya as “stabilizing,” if under the wrong alliance system, so the real problem with Syria is that it’s relying on blowback-happy Islamist proxies and being dragged out too long by indecisiveness

      in 1980 they were rarin’ and ready to unleash all the brilliant lessons they’d had from Vietnam–COIN! no, umbilicism! no, Civic Action! now they’re trying again, but it seems a bit more hysterical, a bit more short-term: they don’t want to finally “get it right” in the Mideast, they just want to knock over as many regimes as they can before the party’s over

      Britain didn’t get exempted from this cycle by Suez either–Blair thought Iraq’d be another Sierra Leone or Ivory Coast; it’s a pattern swinging between pullout and a dynamism that blames previous “isolationism” for new crises (terrorism, revolution, 9/11, gas attacks)

      while the “Deep State” may overall encourage Northwoods false-flags and chaos, or a faction of them does, most of them are flag-waving patriots who aren’t all that heartened by the West’s support of LIFG or ISIS having blowback within a year, or even just fucktons of refugees: Paris, Brussels, Manchester, Barcelona, Orlando, Nice, Berlin, Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray, London, over the Sinai, San Bernardino, Chattanooga, that’s 600 Europeans and Americans dead: that’s a bigger failure than anything in the boundaries of Libya and Syria: blowback from Operation Cyclone took over a decade and reaped a galvanizing Pearl Harbor: now we all just want the fuckery to stop, and voted for a psychotic rapist who was the only one left standing opposed to this sort of interventionism and pointing out the blowback

      we have to think beyond just Trump, beyond 2020 or ’24: we do have a Deep State (which Trump ripped off from Erdogan) that always pushes grand schemes to change the world against Russia or against Islamdom

      http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
    • Ohio Barbarian (9071 posts)
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      6. Great post. I look forward to the followup.

      Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
    • Marym625 (29835 posts)
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      7. On The Daily Radical

      Thank you

      Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • davidthegnome (2565 posts)
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      8. A good read.

      There are similarities between Hitler and the madmen of today.  The scapegoating of certain minorities, the feverish Nationalism – even the “department of homeland security” hints very strongly at that, by name and by deed.  We can add the torture of prisoners of war, the growing control over National media, the endless lies….

      I wonder though, if our particular madmen are not just as mad as he was in their own unique way.  Take Pompeo and his belief in the rapture to come – take any number of Christian fundamentalists and their desire to actively bring about the rapture they believe in.  The dogma and doctrine that demonizes the different according to socioeconomic status – the dogma and doctrine that makes them believe they have the right to condemn those who are “other”.

      Disregard – and contempt for the poor, even in defiance (or perhaps ignorance) of what their own holy book has printed upon it’s pages.  Unchecked greed – a system in which, via citizens united… political campaigns – and politicians themselves, are for sale to the highest bidder.  Secret FISA courts, extensions of the powers granted by the Patriot act (now under a different name, or several different names) a massive tangled web of various intelligence agencies and individuals within them all with their own agenda.  No central control – no real accountability.  The President himself, for all of his buffoonery… is only a pawn.

      The propaganda wars within the media, at least, for the mainstream – have already been won by the corporations and the government that enables them.  Net Neutrality is dead – in one of our last outlets for freedom of speech, our methods of communication are coming under hard scrutiny – and censorship (youtube, facebook, twitter, etc.) and we are being lied to about why.

      I think few Americans realize just how much damage we have actually done.  From the 90s, to today, the death toll as a result of our foreign wars and sanctions is far higher than we ever hear/read the media speaking of.  Our economic sanctions continue to inflict suffering – generally not upon the leaders of Nations, as their wealth and status protects them – but upon the most vulnerable citizens of those Nations.

      Meanwhile – the government struggles to continue to pay just the interest on our debt.  Most of this debt has been incurred as the result of both war and deregulation – as well as the completely bizarre crippling of the economy via tax cuts to those who least need them.  Nonetheless, most democrats and republicans continue to push one version or another of voodoo economics.  Whether it’s trickle down, making the government a “lean machine”, or whatever bull shit they come up with… the true purpose is to further enrich the wealthy at the expense of all else.

      So we defund education, infrastructure, federal and/or state programs intended to provide some safety net for those most in need.  So the private market is praised – and permitted to run wild, creating for profit prisons, dominating and crushing all competition via massive conglomerate monopolies.

      Honestly, I think we’re in even deeper shit than the Germans were, when what goes around finally comes around.

      “There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.” - Mark Twain
      • cleverflamingo (152 posts)
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        9. we’re in even deeper shit than the Germans were

        Indeed….in so many ways. I think though that we have greater means of fighting back effectively than the ordinary german ever did.

    • Babel 17 (4733 posts)
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      10. "there never was a point … the governing Nazi Reich ever announced …"

      Yup, just the opposite in fact. In a famous major speech Hitler had a moment where he attempted comedy as he mocked the idea that President Roosevelt thought Germany might have territorial ambitions. I see it as an example of the big lie, maybe even gaslighting.

      • Fire with Fire (1355 posts)
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        11. That was the core point I was trying to make in 2004

        The Nazis never promised to destroy Germany through insanity.  They just did it.

        In 2004, I ran into significant disagreement from some ostensibly “progressive” voices on that board who refused to entertain the premise of a Nazi moment.  They thought I was an alarmist and highly irresponsible to invoke Hitler in any discussion of the American government of the time.  They all ignored my several disclaimers in the text of the piece, which clearly stated that the particular excesses of the Nazis were distinct in significant ways from the ambitions of Bush and the Project for a New American Century.  In short, several cogent message board members thought it was outrageous to question the motives of the Bush Administration who was trying to deal with terrorism, rather than using that as an excuse for military adventure.

        Time has reinforced my view that we were indeed being bullshitted into a scheme to rule the world, admittedly more like Pinky and the Brain rather than Mein Kampf.  Instead of blitzkrieg, we tried Shock and Awe.  Instead of pushing the idea of a Master Race, we turned it inside out and pushed the idea of inferior Rogue States.  Hamstrung by the lack of a draft, instead of occupying armies dominating conquered territories, we recruit “moderate rebels” to put boots on the ground, with utterly predictable results.

        The similarity seems undeniable in this fundamental reality — in the USA we have a State that is a law unto itself that pursues an overt policy of global domination.  Its main political mode of operation is the Big Lie.    And, like the Third Reich, it is doomed to fail in its demented ambition to rule the world.

        • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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          12. The point you made in 2004 appears to have been validated.

          "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
        • Late Bloomer (229 posts)
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          21. And Grandpapa Koch refined for AH

          The circle is complete.

      • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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        13. He was sooo funny.

        He ended up laughing out of the other side of his face. What a psycho!

        "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
        • Babel 17 (4733 posts)
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          17. "You rang?" (Wir kamen, Wir sahen, Er starb)

          “Psychopathen beherrschen die Welt, eine davon sehen Sie hier in diesem Video.”

          (“Psychopaths dominate the world, one of them can be seen here in this video.”)

          • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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            20. No doubt about that. I didn't want her anywhere around the

            levers of power.

            "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
    • TRex (4487 posts)
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      14. My mother was reading an article about how much we've spent from 2003 until now

      on the War against Terrorism. Which I must say is doing stellar! Almost as good as the War on Drugs. Ever notice how authoritarians assholes like to go to war with social constructs? Never an end game or exit strategy among them. Just spend and borrow money without a care in the world – THAT is something both parties have way too much in common.

      I won, I guessed 5 trillion…BAM…5 and some change…I should be running the banks!

      So far the only thing I have been able to get Cons and Dems that I talk to all the time to agree on is this – our government is dysfunctional. The mechanisms behind this catastrophe are hotly debated. Government cannot handle social systems successfully, private industry cannot handle social systems successfully – not without becoming corrupt and inefficient. Not without selling out and becoming a monster like the MIC.

      America is a land of dreams and a lot of hot air. Where know nothing blowhards have millions of fans, living on their every crazy word. We are a fantasy nightmare, armed to the teeth and dependent on bombing runs and bought bullets.



      Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?  
    • nevereVereven (4838 posts)
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      18. I remember that post from back then.

      It’s just as pertinent now- actually, probably more so since the Dems aren’t pretending to oppose the fascism any longer.


      A hologram of a magnifying glass will also function as a magnifying glass, but a hologram of Sherlock Holmes won't solve anything.  
    • Major Hogwash (3883 posts)
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      19. Good article.

      I don’t know what other forum you put this on, but I can guess it was on the one that won’t be named.
      And I am sure that quite a few people invoked Godwin’s rule when you mentioned Hitler in this piece.
      The problem with people invoking Godwin’s rule is that some of them wouldn’t recognize Hitler if he was sitting next to them.
      They had all become placid to the idea that it couldn’t happen here, while it was yet happening!!!!

      I don’t know what the next 2 years holds for this country, but if Bernie doesn’t run in 2020 and straighten some of this shit out, we should push someone else with similar ideas to run in his stead.
      This fall is going to be a watershed moment for this country. Whether we allow the douchebags to stay in Congress to let Trump run roughshod over us, or elect someone with more liberal values, our values.

      Do you realize we invaded Afghanistan in October 2001?
      Yesterday a U.S. soldier was killed in Afghanistan, 17 years after Bush started that war.
      Yet, the media barely even mentioned it.
      Made it sound like it was a passing Cumulus cloud, an everyday occurrence, no big deal.
      That’s what’s wrong with our country, we’ve grown numb to bad news.
      That’s not Trump’s fault, he just took advantage of it.

      Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
      • Fire with Fire (1355 posts)
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        22. The 2004 piece got re-posted to DU

        I had not yet heard of it, but upon learning that a friend had put my post there, I joined it.  I think my total post count there from 2004 to 2016 was maybe 600.

        I really can’t recall what the DU response was.

        At Upsize This — where I was one of the original board owners, there was a long discussion about it.  Most posts were supportive, but a determined minority mocked me for years over my paranoia.


        • Major Hogwash (3883 posts)
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          23. Are you serious? You were mocked for writing this back then?

          This is one of the best articles that I have read at JPR. Not only is it logical, it is quite accurate.
          Right to the point.

          Well, you know what they say about those who would mock you . . . some people’s kids!

          Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
          • Fire with Fire (1355 posts)
            Profile photo of Fire with Fire Donor

            24. Yes

            We had some right wingers, one sincere “moderate,” and a few liberal interventionists — all of whom thought that I was getting carried away preaching to the Lefty Choir.

            I confess that I was somewhat surprised at just how right I was.  I went from suspicious to gobsmacked once Obama declined to repudiate the Plan.

            My only signicant error was to attribute the evil I suspected to W.  He was a tool rather than a driver of policy.