Here’s some more info on the Rust film shooting

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    • #450996
      NV Wino
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      The gist is, it was a low budget film and they had some prior problems with the props, and the union crew had walked out and been replaced with a non-union crew.
      https://apple.news/AO2qxHw-fQNGAu7npofX-Pg

      The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and collecting their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment. 

      Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

      Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set that day said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges on Saturday.

      Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks, two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. 

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451002
      Satan
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      OK… I realize I’m wrapping my horns in tin foil to even entertain this theory, but……

      It’s not exactly a secret that MAGAtts have a serious hatred for Alec Baldwin because of his Cheeto impressions on SNL.

      Would one of them go as far as to actually kill somebody, in hopes that it would get Baldwin sent to prison?

      Yeah, it’s not a rational idea…. but then MAGAtts are not exactly known for rational thought.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

      • #451034
        NV Wino
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        Sort of a “relate us fairly, or look what screw ups you get” situation. Of course the one thing we haven’t considered is that the weapon itself was faulty, given that it had misfired twice before. Too early to have any definitive answer.

        “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
        “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451006
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
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      Sure seems to validate the other things I’m seeing in disgust, like our no-controls “health care” system. This is an example of how this how a lopsided corporate/labor system system is unraveling. It is collapsing under itself, tragically.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #451014
      Scott Crowder
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      • Total Posts: 722

      Sabotaged the set.  If it happened once but failed to kill someone, that would be the end of it, but the killer tried again.

      Because happening at all is extremely rare.  Happening twice in one week on the same set amidst an unpaid, overworked pissed off crew?

      I’m thinking murder.

      "The possessions of the rich are stolen property." Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
      “The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it.” Edward Dowling
      "The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other. It is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but of a set of priorities imposed upon the rest of the world by the rich." John Berger

    • #451029
      A Simple Game
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      the final responsibility for using any gun is in the hands of the person holding the gun.  Baldwin should have checked the gun himself.  You never trust anyone when they say the gun isn’t loaded, never.  The person who is going to use the gun, real or fake, is responsible for knowing what, if anything, is loaded in that gun.  When it comes to guns you trust only yourself, not your prop manager, not your wife, not even your god.  It’s possible Baldwin didn’t know this most important rule for gun safety but I doubt it.  I doubt this would rise to him being charged with anything but the final mistake was his.

    • #451033
      NV Wino
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      • Total Posts: 8,802

      Live, as opposed to “cold,” simply means it was loaded. It doesn’t indicate what kind of load it was. And at the time of this article, they had not yet determined what kind of load it was, or if there was a foreign object in with the load.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451044
      retired liberal
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      Why were there real bullets even on the set, in the first place? It is real easy to tell blanks from real ammunition.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
      Don't forget that the S in IoT stands for Security.
      Beware of geeks bearing GIFs.

      • #451054
        NV Wino
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        I can’t find the clip right now, but he showed a prop gun with the chambers blocked off. He mentioned that there are several ways to turn it into a prop gun. If I can find the clip, I will post it.

        “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
        “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451047
      beemerphill
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      • Total Posts: 146

      The people with the power and influence will find someone to blame. In cases like this, some little guy on the bottom will always be found to be at fault.  Baldwin had the firearm in his hands and Baldwin pulled the trigger. At his age, he had to know the basic rules of handling a firearm. You NEVER point the firearm at a person, and ALL firearms are loaded until checked by the person holding it. He is not a little kid who has never been taught these rules, he has used firearms filming, and HE is the one who pulled the trigger.

      beemerphill

      • #451051
        closeupready
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        There is no point trying to get Americans to think.

        In addition, the very same thing happened to Brandon Lee.

        But yes, the underlying narrative here is, “the film crew was unhappy, ungrateful, complained about 16 hour days, no food breaks, low wages. It should be obvious one of them is to blame here!”

        Another version of Blame The Secretary, i.e., when insider trading is exposed, financial fraud, blame the secretary.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #451050
      Average Gazoo
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      and being a fake cowboy. Confirms what crew said.

      I believe the crew that walked — I believe the set was unsafe.

      Baldwin should be charged with manslaughter or at the very least involuntary manslaughter. He was effectively in charge of this production. That movie ranch is in a small community so the chances that the armour and the local Sherrif know each other are very high.

      Scroll half way down to the embedded TikTok clip:
      https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-jason-ackles-fan-video-gun-training-set-alec-baldwin-1234861085/

      Be the Change

    • #451052
      closeupready
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      • Total Posts: 2,990

      Which is suspicious immediately on the heels of Hollywood’s bad faith negotiations with its own unions. At any rate, get a load of this:

      Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.

      Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.

      But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.

      As I said above, blame the secretary.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #451053
      NV Wino
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      • Total Posts: 8,802

      And stop throwing blame around.

      1. There were three prop guns. At least one of them had malfunctioned previously with a stunt man.

      2. The union crew was unhappy, unpaid (apparently) and left the set.

      3. A scab crew was hired and was on set when the accident happened.

      4. The AD handed Baldwin the gun and said it was cold.

      5. Baldwin believed the gun to be cold, and fired it during a rehearsal of the scene to be shot.

      6. Some sort of projectile exited the gun, killing the DP, wounding the director and narrowly missing the cameraman.

      What we don’t know:

      1. Which of the three guns was used.

      2. Did more than one gun malfunction?

      3. What, precisely, was loaded in the gun.

      4. Who loaded the gun.

      5. Who had possession of the gun before it appeared on set.

      6. Who, precisely, handed the gun to the AD, and what did that person tell the AD if anything.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451055
      NV Wino
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      • Total Posts: 8,802

      https://www.cnn.com/videos/entertainment/2021/10/22/rust-movie-shooting-alec-baldwin-investigator-lead-vpx-new.cnn

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451057
      Bernie Boomer
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      “Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks, two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times. ”

      First time I’ve seen that.

      EDIT: oh, wait. Are they referring to the misfire from the previous week?

      They’re going to tie this story in knots.

       

       

      • #451062
        NV Wino
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        • Total Posts: 8,802

        Three misfires altogether—two with stunt double, one fatal with Baldwin.

        “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
        “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451213
      jerry611
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      • Total Posts: 1,338

      This could either be a freak accident, negligence, or sabotage. There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle.

      There was a labor dispute and some pissed off workers. So there could be nefarious motives involved there. That’s one possibility.

      There are now multiple people who have claimed there was poor safety on the set. There was apparently previous misfires by the prop gun before. Workers were recently replaced and not known whether they were following the correct procedures. Knowing these problems, Baldwin should have been far more careful with the gun. I know actors aren’t necessarily gun experts and hold “cold” guns a lot. But the number one thing you learn in firearm safety is to ALWAYS treat a gun like it’s loaded unless you yourself visually confirm the chamber is empty.

      So there is a high probability of negligence.

      There are a lot of question marks.

      • #451214
        NV Wino
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        • Total Posts: 8,802

        I read another piece (unconfirmed, by the way) that mentioned the guns were used for target practice with live ammo during down time. If true, that explains how live ammo got in the gun. And that’s assuming it was live ammo that was fired. As far as I know, that has not been confirmed. Yep, hot mess. Gonna be some lawsuits whatever else happens.

        “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
        “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #451220
      jbnw
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      • Total Posts: 7,434

      Halyna Hutchins was a Ukrainian citizen. Note Wikipedia doesn’t have it right when it says she’s Ukrainian-American ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halyna_Hutchins ) ; dual citizenship isn’t permitted.

      It was confirmed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ( https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/774988.html ).

    • #451290
      chknltl
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      • Total Posts: 1,499

      Reading through the above responses I see where one of us posted that one, (or more), of the prop guns were used for target practice firing live ammo.

      This reminds me of one of my past experiences-an experience that turned out far less tragic.

      I am 67. Long ago I was 18, fresh out of advanced tank turret training in the army with secondary advanced training in small arms diagnostics and repair.

      On one weekend I visited my grandparents at their very rural home in Southern Indiana.

      My grandfather had a number of old rifles and pistols which he let me dismantle and clean then put back together.

      My grandmother went shopping, (about 30 miles to town if I recall correctly), so grandpa and I had the place to ourselves

      After I was done cleaning all of his old rifles, shotguns and pistols, we went down to the river just below his home and he let me fire some of them including firing off a bunch of rounds from his old 22 pistol.

      I “thought” that the pistol was empty when he handed me a round with birdshot in it to try out.

      I removed the empty clip, loaded the birdshot, aimed it at the river and fired.

      I thought it odd that the birdshot didn’t make a bigger splash-that the splash was just like what the regular solid 22 rounds had made.

      Then we walked back up the river bank to his home, I carrying the pistol.

      As I walked beside my grandfather he reached for the door handle and I, with the pistol aimed down at nowhere in particular pulled the trigger one last time expecting nothing to happen.

      That was when the round of birdshot went off.

      It ricocheted off of a metal dust-pan and hit my grandfather in the side of his ribcage.

      (No, there were no punctures but he had one hell of a black/blue/yellow bruise and a burned shirt.)

      “I’m hit” my grandfather said at first clutching his side. When we got inside and removed his shirt we both felt a little better but then he said, “Not a word of this to your grandmother when she gets home! We will both catch hell and she will throw all of my guns in the river!”

      (BTW some of his rifles were very much antiques. I wish I had his old octagonal barreled rifle or any of his old shot-guns.)

      So what happened? Where did I screw up?

      Supposedly I knew better… supposedly… but stupidity was at the controls where my brains should have been.

      What happened was when my grandfather handed me the birdshot there was still a live normal round in the chamber.

      I should have checked for that but I did not….first stupid mistake.

      When I loaded the birdshot in the empty magazine aimed and fired WITHOUT cocking the pistol first, that should have been a very important clue telling me that I had not fired the birdshot yet. Second stupid mistake!

      At the very least when I saw that the last item I had shot into the river reacted exactly like all of the prior rounds and obviously not like birdshot, well there was my third stupid mistake.

      Lastly my carelessly pulling the trigger on that pistol while walking up the stairs into the house was arguably my biggest mistake…PERIOD!!!

      I knew better, I was trained better, always always ALWAYS make sure a firearm is fully offloaded and cleared prior to squeezing it’s trigger.

      Even then, with an empty firearm, be very deliberate at aiming it somewhere safe, (like a river in my case) and lastly, one really should not need to fire (or cock and fire) an empty firearm hardly ever because of wear on the moving parts, (firing pins last much longer when they strike soft round casings than anything else they may encounter in an empty chamber for instance).

      I guess I have no real point to add to our thread that is truly relevant to what happened with Mr. Baldwin.

      There is much speculation  going on throughout this thread and I wanted to throw out my own experience with something similar but far less tragic.

      The bottom line in my case: I was trained better, I knew better but in my head, ‘Stupidity’ was at the controls.

    • #451539
      closeupready
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      • Total Posts: 2,990

      Two people were injured with that one discharge, or was there a second discharge, or what? I have seen zero information about it yet.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #451545
        NV Wino
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 8,802

        1. Armorer takes one of three guns from prop table, supposedly having checked it.

        2. Armorer hands gun to 2nd AD who calls cold gun

        3. AD hands gun to Baldwin for rehearsal

        4. Baldwin practices what is now described as a cross draw and aims toward camera

        5. Director was leaning over DP viewing the angle of shot

        6. Gun discharges, enters DP’s abdomen, somehow hits director in shoulder and narrowly misses camera man.

        I have not read anything that said Baldwin actually squeezed the trigger. Remember, a gun accidentally discharged twice before with stunt double. Additional info has come to light: The camera man was part of the scab crew, which brought them down to one camera that they had to reposition due to a creeping shadow. That’s why they were hovering over the monitor — to reset the scene. The AD had been fired from another film due to a gun mishap. There has been no mention of who initially loaded the gun, although presumably the armorer did. There has been no mention of where the live ammo and the blank ammo were kept, or if they were kept in proximity to one another. There has been no mention of who was using the guns for target practice with live ammo. The investigators are seeking answers to all those question, and as they do, more information emerges.

        Its a total shit show with multiple points of blame. Personally, I think bulk of the blame will be dumped on the armorer with some spillover to the AD. I seriously doubt if either will work in the industry again.

        “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
        “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

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