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  • Downwinder (1736 posts)
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    How do you get to the Dungeon?

    I don’t see a link on the menu/forums nor is it listed in The footer.

    Sadie, dreamnightwind like this

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    • Pam (988 posts)
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      • Downwinder (1736 posts)
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        25. Thanks, Pam. I see it in the Menu now.

    • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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      2. 99forwardnow.com

      :lol: sorry, couldn’t resist

      948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • polly7 (2614 posts)
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        3. People who've been banned from here or want a place they can discuss what's

        been censored here – just like when you started up this place to escape SV.   What does that site have to do with the censoring of discussion on ‘Russia’ or the White Helmets?

        • MannyGoldstein (2071 posts)
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          4. To be clear, it's not that.

          It’s for people who insist on posting extraordinary claims with flimsy (at best) evidence. Certain topics seem to attract a group that insist on their right to do that.

          "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
          • polly7 (2614 posts)
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            9. Nah …………… many, many people have spent hundreds of hours gathering

            evidence from investigative reporters on the ground telling the truth of it all and providing proof in video, images and interviews with the actual people of Syria.  Independent reporters, not funded by Soros or CIA millions.  Ignoring it all and claiming the evidence doesn’t exist or has never been presented here (it has – hundreds of links and thousands of replies) isn’t persuasive anymore ……. we’re not stupid.  You just hate that people dare not think the way you want us to about ‘Russia’ and propaganda that makes war on innocents acceptable.

             

             

            • MannyGoldstein (2071 posts)
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              10. We'll have to agree to disagree. nt

              "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
        • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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          6. It was a joke

          People there want to discuss much more than what’s been censored here, which is exactly one subject.

          People who have been banned from here have been banned for personal attacks and du like responses to people. Not subjects. Not sources. Not honest, civil discussion. That or outright third-way or right wing trolls. Or the so very many incarnations of library girl.

          I, personally, don’t agree with the subcategories in the EC group. I don’t see a problem with discussion about it in the GD forum. But I do have a problem with using posts about the White Helmets to bitch about JackpineRadicals. Which is why those posts were removed.

          Now, please explain how allowing discussion, in an open group, is censorship.

          948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
          • polly7 (2614 posts)
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            8. My removed posts re the White Helmets had *zilch* to do with JPR let alone

            ‘bitching’ about it.

            But I will bitch about censorship – relegating posts re propaganda enabling horror and suffering to an ‘extremely controversial (slut shaming before you even get in the door – thanks Crone!) ‘group’ that no-one will even take the bother to visit.

            I’m not a CT’ist – never once visited that place at SV – yet here it is now for ‘Russia’ – a fucking country, of all things, and CIA/Soros funded propaganda that’s already been used to kill, mutilate and destroy the lives of millions around the word.

            Of course it’s censorship.

             

             

            • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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              11. I don't know about your removed post

              I’ll look into it.

              The Russia group is for the posts that claim Putin is just the best, never does anything wrong, loves the LGBT community, etc., stuff.

              No, a group that anyone can post in, can be seen by everyone, shows on the most recent, latest page, etc., is not censorship.

              However, closed groups, forums, banning people for what they do on other sites and the like is censorship.

              I’ve already stated that I don’t care for the subgroups. That I don’t have a problem with the White Helmets posts. This was an experiment. But I believe, for certain people, we could highlight every post on a certain subject, and they would still bitch.

              :)

              948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
              • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                12. Post(s).

                As to the ‘Russia’ group ……………… just, wow.

                Yes, allowing discussion on certain topics only in a CT ‘Extremely Controversial’ group is censorship – it’s the red-light district of the board no-one visits d/t the title alone.

                Yes, people bitch about a lot of things.  Censorship, filthy propaganda, unnecessary war, racism towards any person, culture or country – those are all things I hope they never stop bitching about.

                • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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                  13. Uhm, nope, not censorship

                  But it’s interesting how you ignore certain things I’ve stated.

                  I hope people don’t stop bitching about that stuff as well. But the bitching about here is just baloney. We’ve never claimed not to have rules. We’ve always stated we have a purpose; advocate for liberal progressive ideology, candidates, legislation, etc. Not advocate for third-way, right wing bullshit.

                  Also, to bring people together and organize. Be active against the oligarchy in anyway you can.

                  Don’t be divisive. Civil discussion is encouraged and personal attacks and attacks on the site are not welcome.

                  Again, we have censored one subject that has hurt multiple innocent people. So much falsehoods, doctored writings, photos and videos were used to do so and I will not be a party to that. Nothing else has been censored.

                  948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                • MannyGoldstein (2071 posts)
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                  14. Maybe a different site would suit you better?

                  There’s got to be sites that are better than JPR.

                  "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                  • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                    15. You want me gone?

                    Not a problem.  But the ‘maybe a different site would suit you better’ is a bit cowardly.  Just come out and say it.

                    How does it feel to ridicule those who stood up for you elsewhere when you were treated like a pos for speaking out?  Satisfying??

                     

                    Oh ………. and racism against a whole country of people just trying to get by like anyone else in this world is sick as fuck.

                    • MannyGoldstein (2071 posts)
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                      16. You're putting words into my mouth

                      You just seem pretty unhappy here.

                      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                      • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                        17. I'm unhappy with mass suffering, unnecessary war, filthy propaganda and

                        CIA ops, racism, bigotry …….. all sorts of deadly shit that destroys real live human beings.  I get ‘unhappy’ when it’s not worthy enough to be discussed.

                        Posting on a message board for the sake of posting doesn’t make me either happy or unhappy.  I post for the same reasons most others do here, to try to get out truth that just may affect one person enough to share it with someone else.

                         

                        And no …….. I didn’t put words in your mouth at all.

                         

                         

                      • Content removed for violations of the community standards & guidelines
                      • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                        19. Being treated as a stupid and uneducated pos tends to make people

                        ‘obnoxious and hostile’ when one’s spent literally hundreds of hours here and at SV earlier – for years – researching, verifying and sharing all of those things that make me ‘unhappy’ and the tactics used to enable them.

                        It would most people.

                        No-one likes being treated as a fool by people who have no interest in the topic – not even enough to be bothered to provide proof to dispute a single word of it, let alone ‘reasonably verifiable’ rebuttal of any type – none.  Just label the whole topic ‘Extremely Controversial’ and have it be seen as nonsense that deserves no discussion at all.

                         

                      • polly7 (2614 posts)
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                        20. And no ……….. 'obviously' all of us aren't unhappy with those things.

                        ‘Some’ of us couldn’t give a rat’s ass.

          • Beebee (1277 posts)
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            24. Not for some of us, it wasn't.

            Mary,

            I’d like to reply to this, if you don’t mind,  and in an non-snarky way because as you know, we, you and I, and a lot of us go a long way back together to the start up of JPR, and I, along with many others considered you to be a dear friend. I remember how during Hurricane Matthew this last October you put together a forum so all members in the affected areas could stay in touch, you checked on each and everyone of us. I remember this good amongst many other things, but after the election things seemed to change, when you were moving cross country and also not feeling so well.  Something happened and changed here.

            So let me address some of the concerns.

            “People there want to discuss much more than what’s been censored here, which is exactly one subject.”
            A lot of us feel it’s been more than just one thing, Mary.  Not just PizzaGate, it was the Zionist, being ‘too Trumpy’ and now the White Helmets and Russia have been moved into a forum that by its very name  ‘Extreme Controversy’  is humiliating and insulting. And has been referred to the same as permitting ‘boiling cats recipes’. That’s pretty vile and we know it didn’t come from you.

            Another of our concerns is:

            ‘I, personally, don’t agree with the subcategories in the EC group. I don’t see a problem with discussion about it in the GD forum.’
            Then who is making these choices, Mary? Do you no longer have a say in this? If not, why?

            A lot of us remember, the way it used to be when you seemly did lead this site and we miss that.

            It was good back then, when we were all Bernie supporters and had the same dream together, the same goal. We had a lot of fun and supported each other. Didn’t we?   There were none of these problems.

            I remember when you used to make us preface any statement about Clinton during the primary w Bernie with, “when she steals the nomination”.  But somehow immediately after the election,  all the Hillabots from DU were let in, and if we did not suddenly kowtow and change our allegiance to support her, Ch Ch Ching, or think she was the lesser of the two evils,  we, the original Bernie supporters here, suddenly became ‘too Trumpy’.

            As you know, there was no good choice. We faced two bullets, and had to decide to dodge one. That did not make us any less progressive but that’s how a lot of us have been made to feel here.

            I re-read your post in ‘Confessions of a Hillshill’ tonight and I saw what you posted there.  Go look at it. You understood the dilemma everyone had.

            I know you know, that because of a lot of the above,  which I don’t think was mostly your doing, and TM99’s banning, which a lot of us original JPRers didn’t agree with, that a new site was formed.

            But I also want you to know…

            “People who have been banned from here have been banned for personal attacks and du like responses to people. Not subjects. Not sources. Not honest, civil discussion. That or outright third-way or right wing trolls”
            That this isn’t true either. We have been relentlessly attacked by DUer’s responses and for subject matter, and for sources, ECREE and we are not right wing trolls.

            We were your members, Mary. Your original site members and friends who supported this site and with you shared a Field of Dreams.

            You might be surprised if we were to walk out of the cornfield, as to whom from the past we all are.

            So I’m walking out of the cornfield to let you know.

            And one by one others may too,  just so you know the truth about who we are and were.

            Wishing you the best.

            Beebee

            "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
            • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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              27. First off, thank you for an actual civil response

              There is much missing from your statement. And some just isn’t correct.

              Manny and I make the decisions here. The final decisions. We do not always agree. With two of us, we have to weigh how important each decision is to the other when we don’t agree.

              We have never banned anything about Zionists. Manny wrote two posts about it. As usual, with Manny, the first one was misunderstood by many. The second one clarified his thoughts and was pretty well received. But the reason it was even mentioned by an admin was all the antisemitism in so many Topics. Mostly written by an antisemitic, banned member. I have always stated that this is a subject in which I’m not well versed. But the antisemitism was blatant in oh so many threads.

              So we decided it needed to be discussed and put the kibosh on the antisemitism. But just like so many things, people went to the extreme and were bitching and moaning about things that were never said, like you can’t use the word, “Zionist.”

              Immediately before and well after the election we were inundated with both third-way and right wing nut jobs. 90% of the few people banned at that time were third-way people. That’s a fact.

              You talk about how we were all together. And we were. We, the greater majority of us, knew that either choice was an evil. While we might not have all agreed which was the greater evil, we did agree that they were both evils. I stated multiple times that I, we, the site, the admins and mods, do not give two shits who voted for whom. That this election was so horrible that no one can be vote shamed. We are still removing replies, trashing Topics and warning people regarding that.

              But then, suddenly, Trump was someone who we should “wait and see.” “Give him a chance.” Horrific cabinet choices excused because “Obama’s choices were bad,” “Hillary would have had worse,” and other excuses. Almost every single Topic or reply that said something bad about Trump was met with disdain, excuses for him, the, “but X did it or would do it.” As though that’s a damn excuse. It’s mind boggling to me that he went from an evil to, some actually outright saying, “he’s a progressive, he used to be a Democrat.” Worse, people were so dog damned nasty it was unreal. (Sadly, that hasn’t stopped.

              In addition to that, some people were using identity politics to attack what they saw as identity politics. Using the little vanilla rhapsody laughing guy in almost every reply. The snark was unbelievable. And the argument was ridiculous.

              There is no doubt that Clinton, the DNC, the “leadership” of the Democratic party, et al, are disgusting, war mongers who do nothing for the people. So are the GOP, RNC, Trump, Ryan, et al. And to say that we shouldn’t go after trump because “identity politics” using identity politics is a big part of the problem.

              My dog, people attacked @madfloridian to such an extent that she deleted a Topic and every reply in the thread! Madflo! Who has been one of the most outspoken against Obama for YEARS. They attacked @octafish to the point he actually personally attacked someone. That was after so very many attacks on him.

              There is a good way and a bad way to discuss. And, like it or not, Beebee, some who started out here being civil, quickly turned against the site and other members.

              I don’t recall saying anything was “too trumpy” but I’ll take your word for it. I’ll take your word for it because it is unbelievable to me that anyone thinks he’s anything but the evil we ALL said he was from when he announced until he won.

              Additionally, we, Jim and I, started talking about this site to get away from the constant put downs, the unbelievable snark, the inability for people to be civil. And that’s why so many came here. But here it is, the same du tactics we left. And from members I never thought in a million years would be doing that.

              We also wanted a place to come together against the oligarchy. But it seems that now, if you’re against Trump, you’re really a third-way operative. I have stated, repeatedly, that I trust no politician. None. While there are a handful who I will give a chance to, that is only in certain areas.

              What I see are excuses because of hate. There is no excuse for anything Trump is doing. Just because x, y and z did it or would have done it does not make it okay. And constantly stating that, without going after ALL of them, the laws, the rescinding of laws, etc., does nothing but play right into their hands. Any divisiveness is exactly what they want. And look how well it’s working.

              I’m not going to get into it about TM99.

              As far as the White Helmets, you’ll have to ask @mannygoldstein He is very passionate about his reasons for the subject to be in the Extreme Controversy group. I will give you one example though. The other day there was a very well thought out article posted about it in GD. It was neither for or against but it was factual. It wasn’t screaming “terrorists” or “saviors.” And no one responded.

              I’ve deleted the Russian subgroup. I moved all the posts that were just people playing childish games in the EC group to GD.

              There is a concerted effort to bring this site down. I’ve seen some of the posts. There had been no discussion here about rules. Just snark, games and bullshit. Until your reply. There have been so many lies about here it’s just mind blowing. Not just about rules but about things that have happened. E.G. Clarity’s posts being removed, why he was banned, why another was suspended, etc etc etc. Why Topics were trashed. (I was tolded two topics were trashed by one member that never even existed. Two Topics on the White Helmets were trashed because they weren’t just about the White Helmets, they were bitching about the site. And the poster knows that. I’ve been told I’m “pro war” “pro DNC” etc., etc., etc. It has become laughable what we’re being accused of.

              I have stated that we have made mistakes. We are far from perfect. We try to learn. ou have no idea how many reported posts we get. How much snark in the reports themselves. How much shit the admins and mods put up with. And it got to us. I fucked up and told a troll to fuck off. No excuse for it and I removed the post. I removed a post of Manny’s in this thread last night as soon as I saw it.

              We have never, not once, even suspended anyone for  one, two, three or even four personal attacks. Never happened. Yet I’ve been told I should ban Manny, that I should be punished for my “fuck off” to a troll. That people who other members don’t agree with should be banned.

              We get that people are human. We understand that people get angry at times. So we don’t ban or suspend for a few infractions of the rules. But we’re never given a break.

              I have stated that we have made mistakes. We are far from perfect. We try to learn. It got to a point where mods and admins were just fed up. Because of that we removed too many posts. We have taken action and that will not happen again. I’m not saying that we’ll never trash a Topic, but we will not be so hurried and harsh in doing so.

              We are done, however, on attacks on the site and Topics that are posted for no other reason but to cause divisiveness. We’re here to try to change things. We can’t do that with snark. And, though we will always remove posts that are vote shaming, we’re no longer going to protect people who post something about how wonderful their vote for Hillary/Trump was from push back. Those people know they’ll get push back then run to the reported post to demand action. Now, if it’s a personal attack, it will be removed.

              We also do not send a private message every time we remove a post. Personal attacks are against the rules. If someone can’t figure out why a personal attack is removed, well, says a lot about that person.

              Unfortunately, we tried that with Topics and it was a mistake. If we do trash a Topic, we’ll send a message as to why. We’ve never liked trashing Topics because it automatically deletes every reply. Which sucks and we’re hoping to be able to upgrade so we can change that and some other things that are software issues.

              I have not changed. The site and our goals have not changed. If we cannot come together, we’re fucked. And I don’t mean the site, I mean the whole fucking world.

              I do appreciate your calm reply. We are always willing to discuss. And, we will absolutely try harder. I will absolutely try harder. I hope you and others will do the same.

              I don’t know if I responded to each concern but I have to eat something

              948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
              • Beebee (1277 posts)
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                33. Thank you Mary for your response.

                Thank you, Mary for your long and detailed response.

                I know this must have taken some time for you to have thought about it and typed it all out,  and that you have had health issues that you’ve been contending with, so I want you to know, that I  do appreciate it.

                I read it more than once and let it sink in a bit and before I decided I would respond back to you.

                Just want to say to you, that you’ve always been the heart of this site, the one we count on, and  whether you know that or not  in my estimation most people’s problem here isn’t with you.  For the most part, I think as far as what I’ve seen you’ve treated members with respect, consideration and without snark, ridicule and without being condescending.

                I did read that post the other day where you were attacked for having once told a poster to fuck off, and it bothered me too. It actually kind of hurt me to see that happen to you. You are right, none of us are perfect. We are all only human, and all have our not so admirable moments. I know there have been a few times where I, myself, stepped out of line and have you let it go and I thank you for that consideration. I think the reason why some went after you for this, is and I know you don’t want to discuss this, but is because of TM99. The feeling is that you slipped up yourself, but when he had a momentary lapse he got demoted and some just don’t think that that was fair, especially being that he was so well liked here and immediately wrote an thread apologising to the membership for it. I think that’s what going on as far as that is concerned.

                The other thing you mentioned, was that I should ask Manny about why he is so ‘passionate’ about the White Helmets. Wouldn’t that be something he’d want to explain his side to the membership, and why it had to have it’s own separate forum called Extreme Conspiracies?  If he knows something we don’t, why doesn’t he just share it with us? I mean you always explain your stance to us, so whether we agree or not at least we know where you are coming from. With Manny, no-one knows, because he never tells anyone why. It almost seems like it some kind of joke that only he’s party to and that does not make people feel good, included in or appreciated as members here. It makes them feel belittled.

                I think this is why a lot of people are acting up and why you are getting all the complaints. People are not liking how they are being treated.

                The other reason is, while I know most of us really dreaded either Clinton or Trump getting elected, the fact is Trump has been elected and some of us don’t want to see this just become a Trump hate site, we want to take a more nuanced approach.  As Bernie said,  he would support him when he was right, and go after him when he wasn’t. It seems like there may be a few good things to come out of this, here’s to hoping for something,  such as bringing some jobs and companies back to US, by imposing tariffs. Maybe going after the pharmaceuticals for lower drug prices, etc. And I don’t think anyone is oblivious to some of the other stuff that we should go after him on. The Muslim ban,  building a continuous wall, not just strengthening border crossing, relaxing environmental restrictions re etc etc. We just want to be able to talk about these things in an adult type of manner, to figure out what we can do and where we stand.

                And people are acting out because it been a really brutal year for all. First we lost our presidential candidate, then our party, now this site seems fractured and it seems like we are at the risk of losing you too.

                I hope not.

                Thanks for hearing me out.

                Beebee

                 

                "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
                • Beebee (1277 posts)
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                  34. Oh and one more thing I forgot to add too.

                  We do want to be able to say, but look the Dems, or Clinton, or Obama did it too.

                  Not to let Trump of the hook, and you are right it’s not good regardless of who’s doing it, but more to point out how hypocritical the Dems, Obama or Clinton are being.

                  Clinton by hook or crook cost us Bernie’s nomination, so a lot of us will never have any sympathy with her and several believe she should have been convicted of her handling of classified info and rigging the primary.

                  Obama’s also got a lot of dirt on him too, endless wars, did little to nothing for the working class etc etc. He’s whole relationship with Loretta Lynch in that Clinton email/server saga, and his pseudonym appearing on in her emails from her private server, caught him in lie, when he tried to claim the first time he heard about it, was the same time we did, in the news. So it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he wasn’t spying, listening in on Trump and not telling the truth about it. Remember, “no-one is reading your emails”.

                  They all have unclean hands, so like you, no-one should be excused and we should go after them all.

                  "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
                  • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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                    36. Of course that can be said

                    But not as an excuse and not as an attack. The majority of those posts have been one, the other or both.

                    If I post, “Trump just deported my friends.” And someone replies, “Obama was the deporter in chief so it’s not trump.” It does not address what is happening, it does nothing to add to the conversation and it deminishes what happened to my friends.

                    If someone replies, “We need to stop this. Were they undocumented? How long did they live here, etc.? Obama was horrible and deported thousands and thousands of people. Now trump is doing the same and more. It must end” That’s not excusing it. That’s trying to understand what happened, why it happened and talking about stopping it.

                    948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                    • Beebee (1277 posts)
                      Profile photo of Beebee Donor

                      41. I don't know Mary

                      I read your examples, but don’t you think that that is putting everyone on their tiptoes, which is what is causing the stress?

                      Basically you can say it this way, but not that or that way.

                      So is it an attack by saying so, or is it an excuse, or is it a legitimate comparison?  Fine lines, that just seems very rigid to me, as to dictating to almost to a  tee as to what someone can and can not say. Getting a little Orwellian.

                      It just doesn’t allow for much  or any disagreement. And how can there be any discussion, or why even have a discussion board if everyone is saying  or has to say the exact same thing, is my question?

                      "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
                      • Marym625 (20076 posts)
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                        43. First, i disagree with it putting people on their tiptoes.

                        While my examples may not be great, the point is that so many of the “but Obama” “but Clinton” “but trump” have been attacks on the Topic (usually, sometimes whomever replied) are meant to derail the discussion instead of add to it and sometimes are just either irrelevant or wrong.

                        We way these on an individual basis. If it’s an attack on the poster or thread jacking, which obviously would be much more than one post, we’ll remove it.

                        I absolutely, 100% agree that some of what those so called democrats did and are doing is worse than what is happening now. No two ways about it. And we should never forget the past. We must continue to fight these mother fuckers.

                        But some of what trump and the gop are doing is worse than what the dems have done and are doing.

                        While I know there are some trolls here, both third-way and right wing, there are also people who are constantly attacked for being third-way DNC hillshills who are not. And it’s getting old.

                        What boggles my mind is the excuses for trump because of the but whomever. Anyone who excuses what is happening is playing right into the PTB’s hands. And it blows me away that people don’t see it.

                        The same goes for those who believe the Democratic party is still the only way to go.

                        They ALL FUCKING SUCK!

                        You absolutely know that we have not stopped the discussion. But, as I said, it’s getting old. The greater majority of people here have been outspoken against Obama, the Democratic party, third-way Crap, etc for years. YEARS. But some cannot post without being jumped on. It’s not right. People shouldn’t have to prove what they’ve done in the past to be able to post something negative about trump, or have a disclaimer on every post.

                        I know that’s true on the other side as well but not anywhere near the extent. But excusing trump because Clinton is worse is ridiculous. We are capable of fighting both. And there is no excuse for trump. Just like there’s no excuse he was given to us by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton Players.

                        We’ve got the fight of our lives going on right now. We absolutely must come together. This false dichotomy must end. They’re all the same and they’re all against us. And the sooner we realize it, the more power we will have.

                        948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
                • Marym625 (20076 posts)
                  Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

                  35. Again, I'm not getting into it about TM99

                  But what you stated, a momentary lapse, is just completely untrue. This went on for months. And it is the last thing I will say on the subject.

                  As far as the White Helmets, we have more members than not who would rather not have the posts that claim they’re terrorists and never give any credence to the many respected journalists who admit they have saved 10s of thousands of lives. Every single post that had any disagreement was met with some pretty nasty replies.

                  Again, that’s for Manny to explain but I don’t own this place myself.

                  As far as Trump, when and if he does anything good and decent, by all means, celebrate it. I’ll be right there with you.

                  So far, nothing good has been done. Good he didn’t revive the TPP. But he didn’t kill it. It was dead before he took office. And it was mostly the EFF, whom I love to death, that did it.

                  And at what cost will any jobs come back? Trump is a corporatist. The deregulations, the tax breaks, all the horrible things that will happen to the environment because of basically gutting anything good, etc., will not be worth it. And I don’t believe jobs will return anyway. The tariffs proposed are miniscule.

                  I’m not championing any politician for talk. Walk the walk I’ll be right there with you.

                  As far as immigration, I’ve seen people applaud him. I’ve seen members excuse him. I’ve seen members say, “Obama did it” to things that never happened. Obama sucked. Deported more people than anyone ever. It was ultimately he that sent back those children to certain death. But Trump is actually worse! Never believed that was possible and people here have excused it because, “Obama.”

                  Again, he does something that actually helps the people and I’ll be jumping up and down for joy.

                  Yes, we are all frustrated, scared, angry, in shock at the blatant fuck you from everyone that runs our government or has anything whatsoever to do with it. We were robbed and they should pay for it.

                  But it’s time to come together. I’m doing my best.

                  Thank you again

                  948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
            • Marym625 (20076 posts)
              Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

              28. I did forget to add

              That some really wonderful posters have walked away because of the snark and excuses for trump. Real liberal progressives. Hopefully, that will end because there is no excuse for trump and we must fight all of them

              948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
            • bernintheusa (1252 posts)
              Profile photo of bernintheusa Donor

              31. I have nothing to add, except "Amen".

              imageWe all only live once. So we are obligated to make good use of the time that we have and to do something that is meaningful and satisfying. This is something that I find meaningful and satisfying... I enjoy helping people who are vulnerable. And I enjoy crushing bastards.                        - Julian Assange -                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          image                                                                                                     ... for Julian's safety ...   
        • madfloridian (1778 posts)
          Profile photo of madfloridian Donor

          29. Just visited that link. It's like invite only. And private.

          Invite only makes it easy to control and monitor issues…so aren’t you just doing what you are accusing our admins here of doing?

          Here’s the FAQ

          https://www.99forwardnow.com/faq.php

          Every forum has rules.  This forum has fewer rules than two major Democratic forums I know. Way way fewer rules.

          But it’s not private, and it’s not invite only.  I get upset with people who demand they must be allowed to discuss topics when it goes against the few rules we do have here.

          It hurts all of us, and a private invite only forum will NOT solve your problems. Been there did that, didn’t work.

          If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
      • Major Hogwash (2129 posts)
        Profile photo of Major Hogwash

        5. Should'a taken a left at Albuquerque

        Nothing strange about that.

        • Marym625 (20076 posts)
          Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

          7. LOL!

          948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
        • So Far From Heaven (9603 posts)
          Profile photo of So Far From Heaven Donor

          21. Now, why are you picking on poor old Albuquerque?

          We’ve got enough trouble………………

          I dream of how things could be, and ask ‘Why not?’ Dwelling on the past keeps us rooted to the past. I say to hell with what has come before, let us shape that which will be.
          • Major Hogwash (2129 posts)
            Profile photo of Major Hogwash

            22. It doesn't get enough good press.

            Not that I would move there, but certainly it doesn’t snow there in March.

            • So Far From Heaven (9603 posts)
              Profile photo of So Far From Heaven Donor

              23. It never gets any good press.

              Then again, it doesn’t deserve any good press.

              Not in Albuquerque, but those of us in the mountains get lots of snow in March most years.

              We sorta fled the place ourselves out to the hinterlands.

              I dream of how things could be, and ask ‘Why not?’ Dwelling on the past keeps us rooted to the past. I say to hell with what has come before, let us shape that which will be.
              • MannyGoldstein (2071 posts)
                Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

                32. ???

                Breaking Bad was basically a giant advertisement for Albuquerque.

                "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                • So Far From Heaven (9603 posts)
                  Profile photo of So Far From Heaven Donor

                  38. Sure.

                  Let’s see, we got the king of meth manufacturing plants in the world, a home grown cartel fighting the South American Cartels, we teach everyone how to dissolve those nasty dead bodies and we got a really cool bunch of skin heads that practice slavery enforced by murdering innocent young mothers. Not to mention the family values installments.

                  And we own the entire series on dvd.

                  Best series ever made.

                  I dream of how things could be, and ask ‘Why not?’ Dwelling on the past keeps us rooted to the past. I say to hell with what has come before, let us shape that which will be.
      • Downwinder (1736 posts)
        Profile photo of Downwinder Donor

        26. Thank you for your gracious response.

        As my Aunt would say, “Bless your heart.” I’ll check it out.

        For now:

        • Marym625 (20076 posts)
          Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

          30. You're already there. Why say that?

          Please, don’t pretend that your post was anything but snark and meant to cause trouble. You’re better than that

          948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
          • ThinkingANew (1232 posts)
            Profile photo of ThinkingANew

            37. I checked DW's post history. This OP occurred before he

            engaged in the mentioned group (in his op)?

            This OP happened on March 1st. He did not post and joined the group March 2cd?

            But maybe there is history you were referring to here?

            Sorry for the “clarification”. I just see so many posts where jumping to conclusions about each other are creating strife (between people who would probably otherwise not be so at odds?).

            I am still catching up and was behind on reading all the replies here.

             

            "(modern) newspapers publish nothing more than “weaponized text"" “When you read a newspaper article, you are reading weaponized text that is designed to affect a person just like you." Julian Assange  
            • So Far From Heaven (9603 posts)
              Profile photo of So Far From Heaven Donor

              39. Like this one?

              I dream of how things could be, and ask ‘Why not?’ Dwelling on the past keeps us rooted to the past. I say to hell with what has come before, let us shape that which will be.
              • ThinkingANew (1232 posts)
                Profile photo of ThinkingANew

                40. Have no idea what you are saying

                in your reply.

                I must be dense but it seems too cryptic.

                (on edit after rereading): OK, maybe I did jump to a conclusion (that Mary was saying that DW’s OP was snark as he had already been to the group mentioned).

                Seems though that you held up your part with a little “sniping”.

                So it seems we are all imperfect. Which has been one of my points.

                 

                "(modern) newspapers publish nothing more than “weaponized text"" “When you read a newspaper article, you are reading weaponized text that is designed to affect a person just like you." Julian Assange  
            • Marym625 (20076 posts)
              Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

              42. Not talking about the EC group.

              Nor was he in his reply to me

              948c8f248a "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian