I don’t understand the outrage

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    • #330641
      Bearian
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      • Total Posts: 536

      Is having a bounty on a soldier so much worse than training arming supplying the mujahideen and Al Qaeda

    • #330652
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,102

      Maybe to push Trump into doing something drastic with Russia.    And yes, how is this different, indeed.

    • #330657
      Bearian
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 536

      On operation Cyclone in Afghanistan

    • #330661
      Bearian
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 536

      Wouldn’t surprise me if we found out Biden was the author of the blueprints for operation cyclone

    • #330742
      Populist Prole
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 447

      It’s super-duper convenient narrative from with which to push further right.

    • #330753
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,051

      “Whatabout” ‘you do it too’ does not make it right. If ‘we’ do it, it is wrong. If ‘they’ do it, is is wrong.

      They are called 'human' rights not "if politicians do not feel threatened" rights. Many politicians see national sovereignty/security as more important because they protect their power and wealth. Human rights often do just the opposite.

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not resolved with more national sovereignty.

    • #330778
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,606

      This is all rather beside the point, anyway.  Did they do what they are accused of?  Who is they?  Putin?  Where is the evidence?  Are we supposed to take the NYT, Washington post, NBC and so on at their word?  What happened when millions did that in the build-up to the Iraq war?

      Perhaps caution – and an investigation – are in order before people claim it as fact.  I don’t care who says it, i care what they can prove.

    • #330784
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,676

      I don’t know whether Russia or Russians placed a bounty on American soldiers in Afghanistan or not. If our government had done the smart thing almost 20 years ago, there would be no American soldiers in Afghanistan for anyone to place a bounty on.

      Besides, given our own history of placing bounties on Native or Mexican scalps, or engaging in fun murderous stuff like the Phoenix program in Vietnam, we Americans have very little standing to righteously condemn another country when they place bounties on our troops who are there to advance imperial American ambitions.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #330807
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,606

      @peacecorps

      Yes, it is wrong when we do it and wrong if they do it.  Assuming this could be proven, what would you suggest in response?  As far as I can determine, sanctions primarily hurt the poor and typically achieve no just result.  War would be beyond mad.  So…?

      In my opinion, all of this shit needs to be brought out into the open in a UN trial or debate.  Each side presents evidence, with representation – and a majority vote determines what, if anything should be done.

      Just my two cents.

    • #330827
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,051

      is going to put their fate in the hands of a One World Government (in their eyes anyway)/’a bunch of foreigners’ encroaching on their beloved national sovereign right to do whatever they think is in the ‘national interest’ of their ‘mother/fatherland’.

      It is difficult to imagine a political leader who fashions himself to be a strong, macho leader agreeing to a proposal that differences between countries be submitted to a ‘world court’. Obviously, we agree to have disputes between parties within the country settled peacefully by courts all the time. When the disputes are between countries, however, that mentality seems to fall apart.

      They are called 'human' rights not "if politicians do not feel threatened" rights. Many politicians see national sovereignty/security as more important because they protect their power and wealth. Human rights often do just the opposite.

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not resolved with more national sovereignty.

    • #330854
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,695

      Persia, India, Britain, USSR and now the USA is in the hurricane.

      Even the Mongols gave up on it.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #330888
      Joe Shlabotnik
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 804

      .

      ~ All good things are Wild and Free ~

    • #330939
      Yanath
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,342

      @peacecorps

      is that an equivalence exists between what Russia is accused of, and the actual atrocious conduct of the US, as it rampages around the world committing rapine.

    • #330941
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,661

      What are you, a Whataboutist or something? And don’t mention Julian Assange either.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #331015
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,606

      @peacecorps as for either Country going before the UN to settle it.  I know some would call that globalism – but this is why the UN exists, to settle these kinds of things.

      Too much bickering and infighting and the Countries misusing their veto power (which was a bad idea to begin with, imo) has made the UN ineffective.  It is too bad, because without some kind of valid court to handle these international disputes… Well… The options are kind of limited to trade war, shadow war, or actual war.

    • #331031
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,145

      If Russia has evidence against the US they will either keep it secret or release it in a way that benefits their interests — like the DNC e-mails which actually aren’t state secrets.

      This goes back a long time with Russia-US going back and forth.

      I would rather live in a country that is neutral in this Cold War but Putin and his government is right wing rather than communist.

    • #331071
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,606

      It is supposedly a (deliberate) leak from someone, somewhere, so is now an allegation.  It stopped being about covert intelligence gathering as soon as it hit the press.  It is unknown whether the information can be trusted or verified.  This is why I suggest that an international court be used if the U.S. wishes to accuse Russia of putting a bounty on its soldiers.

      Otherwise, it is essentially a rumor that some will believe and some won’t.

    • #331074
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,716

      It would help stop the lies our government thrives on.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
      Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
      Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #331149
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,051

      “… options are kind of limited to trade war, shadow war, or actual war.”

      Yes. And that is why that old ‘globalist’ (I think they called it ‘internationalist’ back then) FDR pushed for the UN and a host of other international organizations and agreements. He saw what hyper-nationalism, militarism and isolationism had done to the world. It seems that the world has forgotten the lessons those lessons. We are back where we started.

      They are called 'human' rights not "if politicians do not feel threatened" rights. Many politicians see national sovereignty/security as more important because they protect their power and wealth. Human rights often do just the opposite.

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not resolved with more national sovereignty.

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