I Have One Important Question For Us All (JPR)

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  • #300317

    WillyT
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 672
    @willyt

    Are we gonna let raw feelings about our disappointment over Bernie allow us to turn us into SV Version 2.0 ???

    Calling each other out about loyalty, division, and the path forward ???

    Most of us ended up here because of that division… loyalty tests… etc…

    Or were… “Disinvietd”.

    I sure hope not.

     

  • #300318

    Haikugal
    Moderator
    • Total Posts: 1,445
    @haikugal
  • #300320

    ThouArtThat
    Member
    • Total Posts: 2,766
    @thouartthat

    @willyt,

    Hi willyt,

    Can’t speak for others.  If some want to vote for a Vichy dem that is their business.  This voter stopped voting for the lessor of two evils long ago.  That policy will apply in November just as it does today.  Consequently, there is no known candidate that the DNC can nominate that will secure this vote.  If some want to make an issue of that position then it reflects on them, not this voter.

    TAT

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
    - John F. Kennedy

    "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
    - George Orwell

    "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
    Rather than truth as the authority."
    - Gerald Massey

    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
    - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  • #300325

    xyzse
    Member
    • Total Posts: 1,423
    @xyzse

    Hey man, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    You can vote for whomever you want.  I will not hold it against you. 🙂

    As for me, all I am going to tell people is no matter what, “VOTE!”.  Do all your soul-searching and what not, just please Vote.

    One should not allow depression to stop one from providing their voice, since if you don’t vote, then you are not counted.  Which means, you are not looked at, and dismissed.

    So vote 3rd Party, Write-In, heck, vote for either the Democrat or Republican, does not matter.  Just vote.

    I am most likely just going to Write In Sanders any way.  That is a vote, and as such, not wasted.  The only wasted vote is one not cast.

    There are individuals that I love and respect, who are not Republicans that will end up voting for Trump.  Much to my dismay, but I get it.  They feel cheated, burned, and find Trump actually offering olive branches to them, rather than the scorn provided by the Biden-folk.  So yeah.

  • #300329

    tk2kewl
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 988
    @tk2kewl

    I’m not sure if that’s how it is going to work this time around. I will have to see what comes.

  • #300331

    djean111
    Member
    • Total Posts: 3,777
    @djean111

    I don’t even think I care about the election any more – what is the point?   If the grinning hyena unity yapping gets too prevalent, I may just skip the political internet stuff altogether.  Millennial grandson will either not vote, or vote for Trump, just because he knows what Biden/the Democratic Party have done to people like him and will continue doing.  That’s on them.  What other people here plan on doing, as far as voting is concerned, has no relevance to what I will do.  Yep, this is not SV in any way.

    Anyone who asks, or thinks they can order me, to vote for a Democrat who is not Bernie can fuck off.

    Nope. If Bernie is not on the ballot, Green it is.

  • #300334

    Bluesuedeshoes
    Member
    • Total Posts: 538
    @greglapalina
  • #300339

    not4sale
    Member
    • Total Posts: 208
    @not4sale

    Anyone that still posts at the DNC hate site can KISS MY ASS.

  • #300343

    xyzse
    Member
    • Total Posts: 1,423
    @xyzse

    Also @willyt

    Even though many like Sanders, it is not because of him that we like him.  Unlike certain DUmbasses who consider Bernie supporters a cult, they completely are missing the point.

    It isn’t Bernie that we are supporting, it is the movement and the issues that he was behind.  Now that he is most likely going to campaign for Biden, many would still probably go to see Bernie just because of the lingering affection, but it does not mean that they will listen any more.

    Also, because it was so bad in 2016, people who used to vote just for Democrats or the binary choice, have found it easier to now vote 3rd party or write-in or stay away.  Prior to 2016, people still thought that the Democratic Party stood for the people.  Many of the younger generations now don’t think that at all.

    What they have done, is effectively turn-off multiple generations of voters, that they will NEVER get for quite a few election cycles.

  • #300362

    Segami
    Member
    • Total Posts: 4,174
    @segami

     

     

     

     

    @willyt

     

     

    Unfortunately, we never seem to have the organization to do the one-thing necessary that could re-align and ‘save’ the party from being used as an establishment ‘Clubhouse’ that is designed to serve the needs of wealthy donors & corporations. When Biden loses in November, that loss will amount to a triple defeat for these weasels consisting of heavy funding losses in the billions. ….Hillaroid – 2008 – lost…..Hillaroid – 2016 – lost……Biden – 2020 – will lose. One thing you can bank on is that wealthy donors & corporations DON’T enjoy losing vast amount of money, influence and control of the nation’s direction consecutively……this is a LOSING proposition for them, pissing money away and leaving with NO GAINS.

     

    This past few weeks have exposed the REAL power that individuals have…….every small business and large corps were all crying about the ‘huge’ business losses they were experiencing. Trump wants people to get back to work because business/corps investor & owners are literally shitting their pants trying to get people to return to their jobs…..Its affecting their bottom line……This effect is what corps in europe experience when a rotating, National-strike is called affecting the bottom line profits of all major industries…..For me, its really no different than making a decision to ‘fully or partially’ renovate an old century home. Once you assess the minimum repair/renovation needs, then your decision will be based on ‘how much do you intend to spend renovating this house…..

     

    In order to be somewhat sure that structural/electrical/plumbing/roofing problems don’t arise in the future and up to bring present day repairs up to code, the right path would be to strip the home down to the bare bricks, leaving all the home’s wonderful antique characteristics in tact such as crown molding, original wood trim, etc, etc, etc……This way, you rebuild with coded electrical wiring that’s NOT going start a fire because you loaded the line or plumbing unable to carry your family’s water-load needs……But taking care of all these expensive renovation issues is an investment for the family’s future (if they plan is to live in the home rather than flip it) to be trouble free for a couple of decades at the very least……..The ‘other’ path you might take is to minimally cleanup and repair all noticeable surface issues like removing old wall paper and replacing it with new……patching up wall cracks, walkway cracks, scraping old flaking paint and repainting etc, etc, etc,…….If you’re going to flip the home, then there really is no problem that I can foresee, but if you are going to live in the home with your family for the next 20 years, expect a series of problems to pop up…….

     

    If every progressive groups become brave enough to take political destructive measures and NOT allow these crooked Democratic party weasels to reign by leaving us all but two choices, (Republican or Democratic) and continue rigging their party primaries and general elections, progressive could eventually force them into discussions and make real changes for a new party……Progressives have to burn the House down right to the exposed bricks and NOT genuflect any more to the establishment’s wishes/demands. Very simply, (without making this a complicated plan), progressives (right now) should be demanding that (‘Medicare-For-All’ with Bernie Sanders appointed as Healthcare Czar) as a straight, in-your-face demand in EXCHANGE for their support & vote. If Joe thinks he can strut around like a proud peacock sporting his AV specks, using fear tactics on progressives telling them that by NOT supporting him, they risk the chance of electing Trump for another four year term……..The progressive response should be ‘FUCK IT’, we are going to burn the house down, so let Trump destroy this so-called democracy all he wants because Joe Biden et al is incapable of compromising, claiming that he was the ‘lesser-of-two-evils’ between Trump and him and wants to continue pimping the Insurance Industry’s position……..

     

    Burn the House down…….and within time, change will begin to surface starting with MORE progressive candidates being elected……but to get to this point, progressives need to accept a Trump term for another four years……The Dem party establishment needs to keep losing elections until ‘M4A’ becomes a reality…….WHY vote for these weasels if they’re NEVER going to come to the table and compromise on issues that are very relevant to progress? Just keep Trump and we’ll blame Trump and the Biden/DNC group for NOT coming to the table for the best healthcare plan for ALL people because they were more interested in protecting Healthcare Insurance Company’s profits…..and NOT the people’s health and welfare.

     

     

    S

    Medicare For All | The Gold Standard Health Care Plan

  • #300371

    Pam2
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 5,071
    @pam2

    ..make sure you know the rules of your state. It might not get counted.

     

  • #300372

    HubHeaver
    Member
    • Total Posts: 396
    @hubheaver

    That won’t happen here.

    I don’t believe there are more than 50 active posters at that “other” place.  Fifty posters with maybe ten pairs of sox each.  The posts are way too repetitive.

    Page Not Found

  • #300379

    Snort McDork
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 3,527
    @snortmcdork

    @willyt

    Hello Former Neighbor,

    I would throw myself off a cliff if I had to had to support the “Dark Side”

    I try to think of myself as “principled” as I have been the past 30-40 years. So I am fairly well practiced at fighting for common sense things like M4A, etc. The dark side doesn’t like those common sense things. The Dark Side doesn’t want me to do bong hits either, but I’m doing one now because I don’t live in the past like they do.

    I'm Snort McDork and I approved this message.

    "I like birdy num-nums"

  • #300382

    Scott Crowder
    Member
    • Total Posts: 31
    @scottcrowder

    She’d get my vote.

    #BernieOrVest

    • #300515

      MizzGrizz
      Member
      • Total Posts: 1,721
      @mizzgrizz

      I love Nina too.

      I go back and forth between going green and not bothering to vote at all.

      On sone cynical level,I knew it would be this way but I didn’t think it would hurt this badly.Goddammit,it hurts and this rotten system stinks.

  • #300384

    Red Cloud
    Member
    • Total Posts: 965
    @redcloud

    Remember how England allowed the colonists to vote the USA into existence?

    And the Czars let Lenin win the Big election?

    And Hitler was voted out of countries and peacefully withdrew?

    How when we get $250,000,000,000 the bosses never take advantage of it and Mitch does not throw trillions to the super-rich as an “equal”counter-balance?

    • #300393

      incognito
      Donor
      • Total Posts: 3,637
      @incognito

      their magic evoting machines tally votes BACKWARDS or just disappear 300,000 votes that just happen to end up in an opponent’s vote totals. How AMAZING is that?!!!!

      👍 Yeah man… who wouldn’t vote?

      @redcloud

  • #300407

    HassleCat
    Member
    • Total Posts: 2,937
    @hasslecat

    It’s very upsetting. I can see why there are some harsh comments, even to the extent of calling Bernie a traitor. Some people promise not to vote for Biden, not to vote for any Democrat, not to vote in any election ever again. That’s fine, but it comes with some name calling and nastiness. Maybe that will go away pretty soon, and we can go back to arguing about the stuff we usually argue about.

  • #300409

    HalfCentury Man
    Member
    • Total Posts: 695
    @halfcenturyman

    Bernie never promised us anything but one hell of a fight before we got the chance to work hard.

    Another day in a life of another days.

    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

    John F. Kennedy: 13 March 1962.

  • #300415

    roody
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 374
    @roody

    I am satisfied with my decision to not vote the lesser evil for the first time in my life. I respect all of your decisions.

    • #300422

      WillyT
      Donor
      • Total Posts: 672
      @willyt

      Voted for Jill Stein in the General.

      :shrug:

       

      • #300513

        Carolina
        Member
        • Total Posts: 174
        @carolina

        felt so good about abandoning the duopoly, and must confess that I was happy when that smug, cocksure Hildebeast got her fat ass handed to her.

        I literally reveled in watching the sadness of her supporters at the Javits Center and noted smugly how she revealed her true self by not even having the grace to appear and at least thank them.

        It was all about HER. She had no grace or any other positive attribute, and she has proven that time and again over the ensuing years.

        Now, there’s Biden who is WORSE… a blatant, unrepentant, repeatedly exposed liar, both when he had his faculties and now that his brain has turned to Swiss cheese. He’s blatantly duplicitous, playing the jovial everyday Joe one minute and the next saying such things as ‘give me a break’ to millenials or telling a voter ‘you’re full of shit.’

        And he’s always been on the wrong side of history.

        So, I thank Bernie for all that he has done, but knew it would come to this. 2016 was really his time… should have gone 3rd party then. This time, TPTB were forewarned based on 2016, and thus they were even more amply forearmed. They started their assault with the Iowa app and were relentless after SC.

        It’s on us now to continue. Vote third party giving viability to a third party movement. Fight against proprietary, hackable electronic voting machines. Fight against the media… Trump was able to strike a chord with many when he coined the phrase ‘fake news’ because he was RIGHT! We saw with the Iraq War and certainly throughout this campaign in how Bernie was treated!

        I am old and could just say fuck it all since that is how I presently feel, but then I think of my son and his family, my niece and nephew and theirs… we must continue in any way we can.

        End of rant.

        • #300517

          MizzGrizz
          Member
          • Total Posts: 1,721
          @mizzgrizz

          ..when Hillary lost and even though I am no fan of Donald Trump,I just may dance a jig when Biden loses.

          I am not mad at Bernie and I don’t feel he betrayed us.His decision to drop out so as to avoid another Wisconsin debacle is reflective of the mensch he is.

          However,the enemy is strong.A mensch isn’t ruthless enough to do what it takes.

          Huey Long was hamstrung by the system and became a demagogue.Bernie,hamstrung by the system,chose to remain a mensch.

           

  • #300430

    jbnw
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 1,313
    @jbnw

    I’ve very rarely seen any discussion that wasn’t about facts, and I can’t recall any name-calling.

    I will happily respect your right to vote for whoever you think is best – and I like the JPR community as it is, and expect it will remain that way!

  • #300460

    Junker
    Member
    • Total Posts: 163
    @junker

    I may write in Ralph Nader. He still makes a lot of sense.

  • #300480

    3fingerbrown
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 2,477
    @donaldtuohy

    It’s the Obidenillary voter faction of insanity chasers who are in for another rude awakening.

    All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

  • #300571

    sonofspy777
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 4,995
    @sonofspy777

    we’re not like that here.

    "No mask, no gloves, no clue"...

  • #300655

    RufusTFirefly
    Member
    • Total Posts: 2,106
    @rufustfirefly

    … now that Bernie has suspended his campaign, I wish our electoral response as progressives could be unified so our numbers are harder to ignore.

    Unfortunately, I fear we’ll be splintering off in multiple directions:

    1. Some of us will be holding our noses and voting for Biden
    2. Some of us will be voting Green
    3. Some of us will be writing in Bernie
    4. Some of us will be writing in someone else
    5. Some of us simply won’t be casting a vote
    6. And some of us will be issuing the ultimate nihilistic ‘fuck you’ and voting for Trump

    I may have even left off some options (Peace and Freedom, Libertarian?), but the length of my list is precisely the point. We’ll be breaking a unified progressive movement into pieces and scattering it to the four winds. How will anyone be able to make the case that progressives are a force to be reckoned with if we do it that way? I think this will be especially problematic for voters who cast their ballot for Biden, for Trump, or for voters who simply choose not to vote. Not only will the response be fragmented, but in these cases, it will be difficult if not impossible to distinguish our votes from true believers in Biden, Trump, or, in the case of non-voters, from those who aren’t angry but just apathetic.

    From my perspective, given the current circumstances, I will personally view November as a kind of census count, and unless Bernie runs as an independent, I will be casting my vote for the Greens. Although my political view may not be powerful, I want it to be unambiguous. I am a progressive.

    Although my current plan is to vote Green, I will be glad to join a Bernie write-in movement instead. But it will need to be unified and large so it’s that much harder to ignore.

    • #300658

      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 12,879
      @ohiobarbarian

      @rufustfirefly I’ve always urged people to vote for someone when possible, for even if it is just a protest vote, it counts and sends a message, no matter how small.

      Now, I can’t do that. In light of blatant voter suppression and election-fraud, as in rigged tabulations of votes and literally stealing votes from one candidate in computers, it is also a perfectly rational position to refuse to participate in our farce of a democratic electoral process so as not to give it our little bit of legitimacy or endorsement.

      I’ll vote out of sheer force of habit if nothing else, and may even send a little money to the Green Party and become more personally active in it, but I can’t condemn those who choose to boycott the inherently antidemocratic elections staged by an oligarchy. In fact, I can’t even argue with them anymore.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

      • #300678

        RufusTFirefly
        Member
        • Total Posts: 2,106
        @rufustfirefly

        @ohiobarbarian

        For folks who share your conclusion, I feel as though there should be a unified, well-publicized “stay at home” campaign. It would be a shame to confuse those who don’t vote because they’re too lazy or don’t give a shit from those who willfully withhold their votes as a part of a principled protest.

        There is a grave danger of irony here though. After all, the powers that be have long waged a voter suppression effort. It started with the Republicans, of course, but voter suppression and low voter turnout also serves the Vichy Dems. I worry that you’d be doing their work for them.

  • #300670

    bazukhov
    Member
    • Total Posts: 2,504
    @bazukhov

    Differences of opinion are what make horse races.   Mark Twain

    Not to mention politics.

    Red horses, Blue Horses, Green Horses, Red-White and Blue horse.

    Make yer bets.

    Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

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