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Home Main Forums General Discussion I just have no where else to turn.

  • FourScore (446 posts)
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    I just have no where else to turn.

    This is a personal journal. I do not seek judgment, praise, or advice. It’s a stream-of-consciousness post, a place to release my fears.  I just have no where else to turn.

    This morning, a person I am close to who works with top military brass was telling me a humorous story as I was giving him a ride in my car. While talking and smiling, he happened to mention, sort of off-the-cuff, that the US is turning it’s military focus toward war-readiness with China and/or Russia. Now, this comment is certainly not any kind of direct statement from the Pentagon. Anyone with half a brain cell knows that all forms of war games are prepared for in our military. However, the statement was made with such ease and confidence that it shook me deeply. I heard nothing more about the intended funny story being told. My head was reeling with images of another world war, of nuclear weapons and famine and destruction. The words kept ringing in my head: war with Russia and/or China.  Somewhere I heard my friend say, “You can pull up over there. I’ll just hop out.” My friend exited the vehicle with a “Thanks! See ya!” and a grin, and I replied with something about having a good day. Then I wanted to throw up.

    My friend is a good person. Yet, I couldn’t help but wonder, is my friend, unwittingly, “a good American”? Have we, as a nation, gotten there yet? Is that where we’re going?

    I went home and called my Mama, an 89-year old going on 30, a liberal, a Bernie supporter, and a watcher of MSNBC and CNN. She still reads the newspaper daily. She begins to speak of the Russians, and I remind her to question everything. I remind her of the media conglomeration that is spoon feeding her the info. She asks me if I believe, like Trump, that the investigation is a witch hunt. Of course it is, I say, but that in no way makes me a Trump supporter. She listens intently to my words and praises my critical thinking. I tell her of my conversation that morning with my friend and of the images that came to mind, and she says with some irritation, “Honey, my breakfast is getting cold. I need to go.”

    One of my teenagers has a disorder that makes reading and writing harder for him than for most kids, so this weekend, I helped him prepare for his social studies exam covering WWI-WWII. I re-learned all the horrors of that time in world history, complete with trench warfare, militarism, fascism, Nazism, starving Russians, Final Solutions, the ugly difference between a concentration camp and a death camp, lying leaders and propaganda. Propaganda. Propaganda.

    Controlling the media, the message, the vote. If Russia hacked our elections, why isn’t anyone talking about paper ballots? Because that’s not what they really want to change, is it. So what is the goal here?

    After hanging up from talking to my Mama, I grab my phone to catch up on email, messages, etc. I peruse my twitter account and see that another alternative journalist, the editor of disobedient news has been deemed a political bot by twitter. Numerous claims have been made in the last few days of accounts or posts being deleted by YouTube, twitter, facebook, deemed “fake news”. Quite a few of those sites and sources being deleted I actually find despicable, but some contain political views much like my own. Voltaire whispers in my ear, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

    The uptick of censorship toward anyone who disagrees with the establishment narrative is happening so fast in the last few days, that I wonder why now? Why so many? Why so fast? What’s happening here? My head is spinning.

    While studying with my son, I ran across a worksheet with a quote from Communist Russia’s constitution. It espoused all the great rights a constitution of a free society should contain – freedom of the press, the right to demonstrate, etc. The point of the worksheet was to highlight the discrepancy between the freedoms written and the freedoms actually allowed. In other words, a totalitarian government, in the end, decides the extent of allowing those freedoms, thereby nullifying the value of the document.

    Will I be censored? Will this post lead to me being deemed a Russian agent? Is it really so outlandish nowadays to consider the unthinkable?

    When I speak to friends and loved ones of how I see America today – the media, our two-party system (which is really one and the same), and the Russian narrative – no matter how articulate I am; no matter how much I try to use logic and facts and context; no matter how careful I am not to overwhelm my listener –  the response is always the same. Their eyes widen slightly, their heads tilt ever so slightly to the side, and they grow silent, as if coming to the conclusion, “Well, I love her despite her fringe ideas.” And the conversation gets changed.

    I hate the look they give me. The craziest part is that I am frequently credited with being right in the end – no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, elections can be hacked, Hillary can’t win…Now they say I was right, so why do they still give me “the look”?  I think they are afraid. And I can understand that, but we cannot afford to live in ignorance. It’s just too dangerous.

    I feel very alone.


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    • N2Doc (5733 posts)
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      1. You should not be censored here

      When you cause people to question long-held beliefs, you get pushback. That is normal.


      We worry about sources being deleted, but lefties have experienced that for ages. Speak out against the status quo and there is a risk you will be silenced by the Powers that be. But that just means that you have to find other avenues to keep speaking out.

      "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
      • FourScore (446 posts)
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        4. Just to clarify – I do not worry about censorship from JPR.

        I meant it in a broader context. Would google deem this site as “fake news” or “propaganda”. Would this site be deleted or blocked by the greater powers that be?

        • N2Doc (5733 posts)
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          8. Maybe

          Certainly the loss of net neutrality makes it more possible. But I believe people always find a way.

          "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
        • GloriaMundi (754 posts)
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          32. Judging by response times…

          …my guess is that JPR is already being throttled somewhere along the line.

          And we already know that JPR and other progressive sites and YouTube channels are coming up much farther down the list in Google search results.

          The PTB are scrambling to maintain control of the narrative.  It’s up to all of us to push back on the mo-fos every single day, with truth bombs.

      • mntleo2 (129 posts)
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        27. Tommy is right about this site.

        I think this is a safe place to speak, Love. It was formed because we had no voice on other so-called “progressive” sites who could not stand a real discussion among so-called “Progressives” and only allowed HRC all day, every day, 24/7.  So we know what is about to be excluded ~ as we have been for decades.

        In my state (WA) although this state went for Bernie (I was a delegate on the state level), and we witnessed HRC supporters purposefully trying to winnow us to HRC.  They would do such things as at registration, they would “accidently” give us tags with HRC on it even though we were clearly on the list as Bernie delegates.

        That being said, and although I am not so sure to disregard the Russia thing (even if only for a political coup), I feel pretty welcome here.  Yes I feel it is important to be a voice along with farther left for social justice, addressing racism and sexism, to overrcome slave labor and human trafficking, college educations, the environment, and higher minimum wage along with stopping wage theft. I cannot think of anyone here whether or not they agreed with everyone else on other things who aren’t supportive of all or most of these issues. And if they are not, not only would they get clobbered by the smart people here, they can still be here ~ as long as they or anyone else remain respectful of another’s opinions and that nobody promotes violence, name calling, etc.

        I have a few Conservative friends. We see our friendships as that we are all the same Americans with rights. For two+ centuries we know it is OK to disagree because we all know each of us are truly concerned about our communities and believe in our right to free speech.  We know full well we would fight to the death side by side if anyone tried to invade our country. We all want what we think is best for one another and our communities. We are respectful of one other’s opinions even though we vehemently disagree at times and disagree most times. We can work together, go to church together, attend community events together, our children can be friends with one another. This is OK because this is what America is all about!

        So the way I am able to balance this is that I have found *MOST* of the time I ignore whatever they post.  If something tickles my keys then I might jump on it, but I always try to make sure my post acknowledges our friendship and respect for one another.

        My rules for myself are: It is OK to disagree. It is *not* OK to disrespect one another’s opinions. It is *not* OK to threaten one’s safety because of disagreement. It *IS* OK to let someone know you respectfully disagree and let them know you see why they feel that way. This seems to be the same thing this forum, Jackpine Radicals, is all about. which is why I love them. :o)

        So go for it. I believe you are a part of one of the most inclusive forums on the Net. If I see anything else, believe me I am gone, but so far it has been a safe haven for me who, even with “Progressive” friends I have to be careful about what I see.

        Hope this helps …

        Love, Cat in Seattle


        Cat in Seattle   >^..^<   "I like democracy *not* xenocracy..."  ~  Frank Zappa
    • HassleCat (2616 posts)
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      2. Keep in mind, we're always planning for war.

      They sit around and work out scenarios.

      • RufusTFirefly (3138 posts)
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        18. That's a very important point

        I have no intentions of disputing or disrespecting FourScore, but from what I understand, it’s fairly commonplace to develop scenarios for attacking all sorts of potential enemies, some of whom aren’t even officially considered enemies.

        In a sense, I liken it to stories that report that so-and-so has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Depending on the person mentioned, it either horrifies people or encourages them. From my perspective, neither is justified. The fact is that the pool of people who can nominate someone for a Peace Prize is quite large and diverse and thus the nominees include dozens of people who haven’t a prayer of winning the prize.

        Heck, I expect there are probably even scenarios for attacking Canada.

        Again, I mean no disrespect to FourScore. I wasn’t there and I expect that I would’ve been just as alarmed by the revelation if I had been. But I have the benefit of distance, time, and perspective, which enables me to consider the situation a bit more analytically than I would have if, like FourScore, I had been present for the actual revelation.

        • Art from Ark (3491 posts)
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          29. If I knew that my "friend" had a scenario for attacking me,

          then I would feel like I could be stabbed in the back at any given time and would end that “friendship”.

          The last time America was run like a business, we ended up with a Great Depression.
    • PennLawyer (2707 posts)
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      3. You are not alone in feeling very alone.

      Reality and the future look very grim to me, but the vast majority of the people with whom I interact are largely in denial.

    • Enthusiast (12116 posts)
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      5. You are certainly not alone.

      I find myself in the same predicament. But the people that are unaware rely on traditional TV media for all of their information. So there is no hope for these people.

      If they listen to Fox “News” they are appalled that I would support Bernie and might respond with something like this, “Bernie is a socialist!”

      If I’m speaking with my family members that would listen to “left leaning” TV media they would respond with something like this, “Bernie isn’t even a Democrat! or Hillary is so experienced!”

      I suspect both groups are equally vulnerable to the suggestion that we must wage war with Russia to protect our elections.

      This country is so fucked.



      "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
    • Earth artist (843 posts)
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      6. Fourscore what a beautiful rant!

      I know the feeling well. I am part of a family that is very liberal and political, yet because I do not buy the propaganda of the government media I am treated to the oh your so radical look. The weird thing like you , I have been right about almost all of it. I never get a response like oh you were right I will pay better attention to how much propaganda the Medea puts out. The subject is either dropped or they just continue to give me that look.

      I am also on our local 350 board and I get a bit of it there as well.

      during and after the election I got it from my kids!!!!!!

      But i am who I am and this has always been how I see the world. I see it from a step back, a broader world view. I feel comfortable with that most of the time. BUT sometimes it just plain grates on me. Mostly when you get the look,

      this person is so stupid

    • id-entity (2245 posts)
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      7. Face it.

      You are totally alone, in world taken over by the pod people.

      Disclaimer: You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.
      • FourScore (446 posts)
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        10. Excellent response.

        Thank you. I needed that.

        • id-entity (2245 posts)
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          11. My pleasure


          Disclaimer: You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.
    • Haikugal (7130 posts)
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      9. You aren’t alone…I get the same looks but we can’t look away.


    • MistaP (7729 posts)
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      12. remember two core things they have so far are the social media crap and the

      Macedonian bots, both of which were non-governmental, mostly not political, and above all there to sell ads

      Adrian Chen made it quite clear that the alarm is over : everything else–the DNC, WikiLeaks, the Donald Jr. meeting–has been lowballed

      what they could find, and which was presented without its context (the puppies) is downright pathetic–

      • Black Matters, 201,428 impressions, 12,127 clicks, $915 ads
      • Teaching Children About Guns, 108,433 impressions, 857 clicks, $297
      • 11-5-16 Get Ready to Secede! march, 16,168 impressions, 2,342 clicks, $55
      • Clinton saying “What difference does it make?” 17,654 impressions, 517 clicks, $53
      • Blue Lives Matter, 3,362 impressions, 761 clicks, $8.56
      • Sanders calling the Clinton Foundation a “problem,” 1,938 impressions, 222 clicks, $8.56
      • 11-12-16 NOT My President march, 188 impressions, 26 clicks, $1.93
      • Buff Bernie, 848 impressions, 54 clicks, $1.92
      • Satan arm-wrestling Jesus, 71 impressions, 14 clicks, $1.10




      and historically speaking they’ve never been able to pin anything on Russia in seven decades: sure there were spies but Fuchs had already slipped the coop, and even the claim that the CIA invented AIDS, not implausibly blamed on the KGB, was actually an independent doctor and there was no Eastern-Bloc involvement

      http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
    • closeupready (2283 posts)
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      13. The massive corruption of governments in the West is leading to some

      ominous political outcomes, such as Brexit, the election of Donald Trump, and today the rise of an anti-establishment party in Italy.  This will not deter the crooks in charge.  To the contrary, they will dig in their heels, sharpen the rhetoric further against progressives and liberals, continue rigging elections, cheating constituents, taking bribes, trading on inside information, etc. while cutting back on food stamps, funding for public education, social security benefits, etc.  And while this is all perfectly legal, it is also perfectly unethical and irresponsible for elected officials to do ANY of it.  They think voters will take such abuse forever.  I think not.

      I don’t feel good about any of this, but I also know there’s not much I can do, as one person.  What I will NOT do is surrender my critical thinking skills to the apparatchiks of a political party (since Cold War pejoratives have become so en vogue).  I may have been willing to do that before Trump’s victory, but not now.  No longer.

      The opinions and views expressed herein are solely those of the author.
      • Two way street (3155 posts)
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        14. Sounds like you are describing the DCCC, DNC and the Corporate New Demo


        Draft Bernie for a People's Movement against Fascism.
      • MistaP (7729 posts)
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        16. Russia was absolutely scheduled to be the replacement for terrorism

        as the motor for internal repression, trillion-dollar budgets, and basically the marker for who is and isn’t a legitimate member of bipartisan discourse

        but remember, too, the Deep Staters (sigh) aren’t ever united, it’s more about maintaining an open space for their blank checks and rank criminality than a timetabled Plan–many on JPR feel there’s a good chance that Clinton was thwarted because her Russia talk spooked enough spooks; many there do think America can win a nuclear war and any talk otherwise is KGB-planted defeatism, but these guys are all now familiar with the term “blowback” (and after the Libya-Syria caper probably feel the West is more vulnerable to it now than in say 1980)

        I think the same thing happened in Syria–instead of being good fast dictator-slaying proxies ISIS and LIFG killed 600 in Europe–Paris, Brussels, Manchester, Barcelona, Orlando, Nice, Berlin, Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray, London, over the Sinai, San Bernardino, Chattanooga (and by local, second-generation, and often acculturated and unbelieving attackers, not zealot migrants as they’d expected)

        and this happened starting 2014, not after a two-decade lag (and during a time when we believed world peace had arrived) like Charlie Wilson’s War (which, I must underscore again, was only done to hurt Russia: that aspect seemed like an antiquarian footnote while everyone focused on Iraq, but after 2016 it’s something we have to shout from the rooftops)

        Russiagate itself also looked way better last year–indictments, arrests, midnight firings and special counsels, new headlines, insane speculations

        http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
    • Lorien (1839 posts)
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      15. I don't have any relatives, but if you swap out their names for "friends" I

      could have written just about every word of that. I get the exact same head tilt and expression of “oh, she’s nice enough, but so deluded and mislead by Russia and those Bernie bros…” I’ve been begging them for years to care about U.S. imperialism and the mass murder that we commit abroad every damn day. They don’t give a shit. If a Syrian is a “dreamer”, then they care so, so much about them! If they’re a refugee, they still care. If we bombed that person’s village and killed their family, then “meh”. War with Russia, they’re totally down for that! They think it’ll be another cakewalk. Besides, gotta punish Putin for giving us Trump, right? Even if it means destroying all life on earth. It’ll be worth it to avenge the Almighty Her!

      It’s horrifying to see just how effective propaganda is on the masses. People that I’ve known since grammar school, lifelong lefties, now write breathlessly about how people who pretend to care about Yemen are hypocrites because they don’t want to punish Russia for “stealing the election for Trump!” It’s completely unhinged. There’s no critical thinking skills being employed by them in the slightest. It’s easy to see how the Germans went down the path that they did decades ago.

      • MistaP (7729 posts)
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        17. do they seem like activist types who always want to "do something"?

        I think a lot of this is basically political blue balls–they were expecting “Obama’s third term” instead of having so many issues to fight that it’s just more economical to pour all their emotion and frustration into opposing one person as emblematic of all those aforesaid issues

        http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
    • Wood (1577 posts)
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      19. rec to daily radical. this is a powerfully moving post.

      Take a little break for 7 minutes to enjoy a different facet of existence



      "All things wrong will move on if you let them."  - Prem Rawat
      • FourScore (446 posts)
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        21. Thank you for the rec, Wood. That is so kind.

        And thank you for the videos as well. I was unfamiliar with Prem Rawat and his work. As serendipity would have it, I was deep in thought this morning about starting a nonprofit organization to help underprivileged children.  It frustrates me to see the very clear economic divide in our schools all across America, and I would like to do something about that. While thinking of what could be done and questioning whether I have what it takes, I saw these videos. Very inspiring. Thank you for that. Serendipity matters.

        • Wood (1577 posts)
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          22. The Peace Education Program is available all over the world

          I believe if you have a group of people for whom you think the PEP program could be helpful, contact the Prem Rawat Foundation. I believe this is entirely volunteer-run and therefore is offered free to participants; that it can be imported to wherever you are. http://www.tprf.org or you can email w questions pep@tprf.org

          I personally think his work is the most important thing happening in the world. Transformation of the individual life — anyone — has the most profound outward ripples, far-reaching. It is the time for peace, and I think also, for service to the highest good.

          "All things wrong will move on if you let them."  - Prem Rawat
    • disillusioned73 (596 posts)
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      20. Your not alone..

      "Certainly there are some people in the Democratic Party who want to maintain the status quo. They would rather go down with the Titanic so long as they have first-class seats." - Bernie Sanders
    • Marym625 (29222 posts)
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      23. On The Daily Radical

      To answer, because I didn’t see it.  I have now. :)

      Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • FourScore (446 posts)
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        25. Thank you, Mary!!


        • Marym625 (29222 posts)
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          26. No, thank YOU!

          Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • davidthegnome (2198 posts)
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      24. It's insane

      That this is happening at all.  It proves that a rather significant number of us have no respect for or comprehension of history.  Even recent history.  War rhetoric is almost always based on lies.

      The lies that started two wars, created Isis, disrupted, destroyed and even ended millions of lives.  I see this as being almost eerily similar.  Except this time…  fewer voices are daring to speak out.  Even those we could normally rely on.

      So much death and destruction.  So much that needs to be done right here.  Trillions for war… But food, housing, healthcare, disability… even a living wage?  Nope.

      Those who constantly watch main stream media are few in number (some ten million at peak times) but they are loud, unhinged – and helping to lead us into yet another war based on lies….

      Only, this time, it could mean the end of the world as we know it.

      I don’t get that “look” often, because I tend to avoid people.  But I hear you… World has gone mad.

      “There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.” - Mark Twain
    • Wink21 (47 posts)
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      28. ha! welcome to the party!

      and good luck!

      lives in NY-21. Find on twitter @wink1radio Avatar is a pic of my S.L. avie.
    • RealityCheck (1180 posts)
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      30. "US is turning it’s military focus toward war-readiness with China and/or Russia

      Not to sound all know it all, but I’ve basically been saying this post Nam War. I truly believe that all of this MIC crusade crap is bringing us closer and closer to these much bigger ones, China and Russia. I also believe that they know this also. So, they do what they can to prepare for the world’s stumbling bully …. US. There’s a reason why the doomsday clock is still ticking down.

      • spud demon (1150 posts)
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        31. There was a hiatus from 2001-2017 when the main focus was TERRRRISM

        I’m glad we’re getting back to being prepared for normal, well-defined adversaries.  I disagree with how “ready” we have to be, though.  Our military budget is bigger than the next 12+ countries combined.  Do we think they’re about to gang up on us?  If so, maybe we should change our behavior…

        Cubs, Google+, Weird Al, BMW
    • melurkyoulongtime (100 posts)
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      33. You are NOT alone

      “I hate the look they give me. The craziest part is that I am frequently credited with being right in the end – no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, elections can be hacked, Hillary can’t win…Now they say I was right, so why do they still give me “the look”? I think they are afraid. And I can understand that, but we cannot afford to live in ignorance. It’s just too dangerous. I feel very alone.” (Emphasis mine)


      THIS, exactly this.  My current conclusion?  Denial, just flat out denial fueled by fear on their part.  Move along, nothing to see here!  Thank you from the bottom of my heart for verifying I’m not alone! <HUGS> 

      Rage, RAGE against the dying of the light!  Do not go gently into that good night!

    • rudycantfail (368 posts)
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      34. I'm so happy this was kicked tonight

      because somehow it got past me this week and it’s one of the best posts I’ve read here or anywhere else.

    • Maedhros (962 posts)
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      35. It's like a massive, country-wide gaslighting effort.

      They keep trying to convince us that what we see isn’t really what we see.

    • Peace Patriot (3345 posts)
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      36. The monsters who are tearing our country to pieces want you to feel alone.

      Defy them!