I probably should have just said, “OK boomer.”

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    • #229233
      Flying Squirrel

      I just snapped. Have not talked to my mom like this in ages. She always has MSNBC on in the background (loud) when I visit.

    • #229347

      I am a boomer, and being a boomer has nothing to do with it.

      • #229364

        I was born in 1955 but have not considered myself a Boomer for many years.

        I really would rather not be aligned with a generation that mostly—there are exceptions,but mostly—think Russia caused Donald Trump’s election,Jerry Garcia was a musician,Rachel Maddow is a journalist,corporate feminism is an acceptable substitute for religion,and the Clintons are statesmen.

        • #229379

          Well, @mizzgrizz  I was born in 1946 and again, that is one big sloppy brush you are waving around.  What makes me sad is that people condemn identity politics – and then they wallow in identity politics.  So – do boomers all have the same opinions, the same income, the same situation in life – really, I am not even the same as my one-year-younger sister.  Golly, maybe it is unnatural for me to be supporting Bernie!  Actually, come to think of it – the only thing that I do not like about Bernie is the Russian bullshit.  But aside from that, there is no one else within galaxies of him.

          Dismissing an entire generation shows a lack of critical thinking skills.  It is cheap and lazy.  And has a really bad effect on how those people feel about the person who is dismissing them, sometimes with contempt.  And – why would anyone actually and literally think of themselves as “a boomer”?  That’s just odd.

          • #229384

            Some good points there,Djean,I have to say,even though we are not totally in agreement.

            I mentioned that not every Boomer has those positions,but lots of them do.I too have a younger sister,born 1961,and she is as rabidly pro-Clinton as I am anti.

            It may seem odd to you—as it does to me—that anyone would identify as a Boomer,but I can assure you I have met people,mainly  from the professional classes,who do.I don’t know what your experience with the Sixties and seventies was…but even then, mine was not pleasant.However,I agreed with the majority my age on some things back then.Now I do not,and that distance gets broader with time.( By the way,Djean,I think you’re most of the insightful people here.I always enjoy what you write.)


        • #230207

          Why drag Jerry into that? He was (and actually still is) a great musician.

          "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #229389
      David the Gnome

      Empathy.  My dad is another one of those people who just doesn’t seem to get it.  I know you’re pissed – and I can totally understand why – and some times, I think, passion is what shows that we give a damn about something.  Even if that passion is anger, some times it inspires people to think, to reconsider a previously held idea.  My dad and I used to get into shouting matches… usually, at some point, we’d end up laughing, once we were done verbally destroying each other, anyway.

      I used to think it had a lot to do with his generation, you know?  That they grew up in a different kind of world, so their perception of things, as such, would be quite different from ours.  Now I don’t think so.  I think that some people are that way – but that their generation, age, is irrelevant.  I have found that the wisest people I have come to know – the most intelligent, too, most of them are not “democrats”, but individuals who have lived a long time and served the cause of progress and the common good.  There are several excellent examples here on this forum.  @ohiobarbarian @thouartthat @sffh @ravensong

      Some times I do think they see things through a different lens than I do – but from each individual perspective there is so much to be learned.

      Think about the reasons why you love your Mother, the qualities that she has, what she may have helped you to learn and understand as you grew.  I must often do the same for my father, especially in remembering that, as was I growing up, he worked (typically) over 100 hours a week.  When I consider that sacrifice, I am cautious in how I present my thoughts.

      When I was…20, I think, I went to a Halloween party with my dad.  I didn’t think much of it at the time, I was just bored and didn’t feel like handing out candy.  Well, when we walked through the door to the place where the party was, it was almost like opening a door in time.  Hanging out, talking about shit that actually mattered, while others danced and sang or played instruments, or just sat quietly, lost in thought… no cell phones, computers, social media.  It reminded me of those who had gone before, what they had gone through and why.  The man who was hosting the party, real great guy back then, sat with me and told me a lot about who my dad had been in college.

      “You know, he was something special, your Father.  He led so many protests, got in so many faces, pissed off so many people – but we all loved him for it, he was able to say what most of us were thinking.  That was then though.  He gave up everything he was a long time ago to put on a suit and tie and be “Bill, community relations director”, we all knew him as Willis.  Its too bad, passion like that can change the world.”  The idea that my Father had been a very different person once, more like me, gave me pause.  I asked him about it later.

      “Yeah, he’s right – I did change.  You know why?  Because I got tired of being fucking broke all the time.”  He told me a story of when he had been speaking at some event during the Vietnam protests – he had actually gotten up on a table and was… hmm, loudly making his point.  An old fellow, very calmly responded, “Son, one day you will be a tired old man just like me.  All you will want to do is work, get through the day – and go home and rest.”  Of course, turned out that that was true – that the society my Father fought so hard to build – and the one he fought so hard to change, ended up claiming him in the end – as it claims most of us.

      That passion though, the heart of who he is, is still very much there.  It is buried behind the mask he has put on for so many years, to get along with so many people, to be able to act as though everything is okay, because he has to, for his family.  On the occasions when he really lets loose, I can see that it is all still there, that he still very much believes in feeding the hungry, in building homes for people, in making the world a better place.  Some times, he just has to be reminded of that.

      Most of this world we live in – this society, is fucking bull shit.  Baby boomers, millennials, generation x/y, it really doesn’t mean a damn thing.  Just age, generation – we all have one, we all have assholes too.  When it comes right down to it through… cut through the “stuff”.  I bet your mom believes in most of the same things you do, just as my Father and I do.  We’ll fight about the particulars, but when it comes down to it, we want the same things, we understand the same truths – and we want that better world.

      The heart of the matter is what matters.

      Sorry for ranting, it’s just that this one hit a nerve for me, because I know how it feels to have those arguments with someone so close.  I don’t care who he supports for President, when he’s wrong, I’ll tell him so – and when its a matter of Clinton VS Sanders, then it is up to those like us to show them that they wrong, not just with words, but by winning.  Chin up, we’re going to kick some serious ass in 2020.

    • #229390
      Ohio Barbarian

      “OK Boomer” would have inflicted less repetitive motion injury on you for sure.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

      • #229394

        It was a great rant,though..and accurate.

        The world is full of people who had the same ideals and ideas that most here have—and that Bernie and Tulsi,politically,espouse—but who gave up and settled for the status quo,usually when they started a family.

        They knew that if they stayed with their ideals they would become a marginal person and for their children’s sake they didn’t want to live that way.Look what happened to most of the Declaration of Independence signers,what they and their families went through.I saw the effects firsthand with my grandfather,who was an early UMWA organizer back in the Mine Wars days,and was singled out by the coal company for whom he worked.His kids grew up suffering for the stands he took and they couldn’t wait to stab him in the back when they got grown,as payback.My own immediate family suffered for some stands I took against a school system.

        Maybe the solution,if your political and social values mean everything to you,is not to have kids.Not to have a family.Ralph Nader made that choice.He may have been wise.


    • #229396

      I don’t watch TV.  If I did watch TV, what station would you recommend that I watch in order to get objective news?  Isn’t it all just a waste of time and space in your brain?

      I’m a boomer, and highly recommend to every generation that you kill your television right now, before it irrevocably fucks up your brains over the long term, like it did to my generation, who went from being Vietnam War protesters to being the generation who was responsible for electing the fascist Donald Trump President of the US.

      2016 Election Infographic


      FYI, I proudly voted for Jill Stein.





      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #229403
      David the Gnome


      My Great Grandfather, second generation Irish American, was one of those early union organizers, too.  He was… a good man, but a different man from a different time.  He spent most of his life working either in mines, or on construction crews for one thing or another.  There are so many stories I’ve been told about him, how he played his harmonica, how “the spirit” (or, well, spirits) changed him – he honestly believed up to the end that alcohol had cured him from paralysis once.

      I was told one particular story of when someone, some worker or other, was going to rat out a group that was unionizing.  My understanding is that my great Grandfather held him… very close to a very powerful piece of very sharp, very dangerous equipment, and explained simply and quietly why the man was not going to stab them in the back.  Apparently it worked, the guy cried and wet himself.  Does that violence, that threat, define his character?  Or is the definitive piece more that he stood up for what he believed in, even going to such extremes?  I don’t know what he would have done if the guy hadn’t backed down, but I can’t imagine he was doing anything more than trying to scare him.  He was never a violent man – practically worshipped FDR.

      Anyhow… as for families, it is far too late for me.  I had a son when I was 18, which forced me to grow up more quickly – and to ultimately learn to accept my limitations and to see the world more as it really was.  My political and social values don’t mean much, at the end of the day.  What means anything at all is what I do as a result of them – and the people in my life and how I treat them.  Maybe not having kids is a wise choice for some, even for many, I don’t know.  I was young, I thought I could take on the world – and I wanted to have it all.  I didn’t realize how different the world was from the rose colored lenses I had been brought up to look through.  Until I discovered things like poverty, taxes, food stamps, politics and so on… I was very much a sheltered child of a middle class family.

      As a friend of mine here often says, population control is important – and perhaps one of the best ways to accomplish that is just to tell people the truth about how things are.  The generations to come (and my own) have lower life expectancy, less savings, less… well, pretty much everything – and it is expected to get much worse in the years to come, mostly thanks to climate change and the greed of the 1%.  If we understand what the expectations are for those that will come after and let go of the idea that we are going to somehow become wealthy overnight….

      Its not my place to judge.  I love my son, most parents love their children – I am no expert, genius, guru or anything else.  I’m just a regular guy who fell through the cracks and cracked himself.  Honestly, what we really need, is a reason to have hope again – something to help us and our children and our children’s children to dream again.  Space exploration?  A true solution for world hunger or cancer?  Perhaps we might start with healthcare for everyone and free education – ending the many financial disasters that were created and worsened by those at the top.  Then of course there’s the eternal war.

      “Ok millennial” come back to earth.  Screw earth, I want to see what life is like on Mars.

    • #229407
      David the Gnome


      Not sure if you are replying to the OP, or me, or just making a general statement.  Wanted to say though, that the people I called out to in my post are all people I respect and admire – and have learned from.  We might disagree a lot, but we have a lot of the same basic ideas about the world we want to live in.

      I only ever use the TV to watch something on Netflix or hulu, usually something fantastically ridiculous.  Magic, the supernatural, paranormal, science fiction, that sort of thing.  All much better, more interesting and thought provoking than any current news station.

    • #229412
      game meat

      Agree with those who say the fad of boomer flogging is just more idpol bullshit. Generational identity politics is no better than the racial/gender variety. And its not even like I’m a boomer who’s offended personally, I just try to be consistent.

      • #230074

        All it is someone gives a long winded out of touch reply like climate change to a young person and they reply “OK Boomer”. That is all this is. I wish I said it to all those posts at DU over the years.

        In general I think racism or sexism is a much bigger problem than OK Boomer but YMMV. OK Boomer is like Cool Story Bro.

        • #230142
          game meat

          You justify this and then complain about millennial bashing down thread.

          “Ok boomer” may have initially meant what you say it does (something slightly less corny), but like mansplaining, whitesplaining, and “cool story bro,” it’s become overused and abused to the point where it’s lost any real meaning, and is just a snarl word. It’s mainly used now as a snarky reply to discount someone’s opinion based on age. Climate change denial is not unique to boomers by any stretch anyway, so that’s just an excuse to justify sneering at old people. I think it’s stupid and cringy, but ymmv. And “but racism” is just deflection.

          • #230144

            No I was pointing out the hypocrisy of SV. There are a lot of complaints about OK Boomer that you never saw when it came to Millenial bashing over turnout gaps.

            I never use OK Boomer but I find outrage over this to be ridiculous.

            I only brought up racism is because I’m confused about complaints about “identity politics” especially from an anti racist perspective. It is also common for people to defend racism especially if the event is open to interpretation but instead have 100 post outrage threads about OK Boomer.

            • #230410
              game meat

              I’m confused about complaints about “identity politics” especially from an anti racist perspective

              There are many, but it depends on who you ask. Essentially, it’s a crude politicization of biological essentialism that intentionally exploits people’s most base tribal instincts. At it’s core it requires an outgroup to function as a scapegoat in order to justify itself, because of this, it’s the antithesis of a politics based on universal solidarity. This is true of both the far-right and neoliberal varieties, which sadly, have both become mainstream due to unrelenting propaganda, with both using the fact that the other exists as a reason for theirs to be crucial for group survival. A vicious cycle, as they say.


              • #230519
                Cold Mountain Trail

                “I’m confused about complaints about “identity politics” especially from an anti racist perspective”

                “Essentially, it’s a crude politicization of biological existentialism that intentionally exploits people’s most base tribal instincts. At it’s core it requires an outgroup to function as a scapegoat in order to justify itself, because of this, it’s the antithesis of a politics based on universal solidarity.”


                Anything that can get ordinary people to blame & hate each other & keep actual power relations invisible.  Anything people see as part of “who i am” & identify with can be weaponized by the ptb.

                Race/ethnicity is an obvious category in the US, but there are places where there’s only a single ‘race’ (as we see race), but have similar divisions, just different categories of division, in other places.

                And in my experience, most of those divisions are carefully cultivated by power, sometimes through direct state action.  Making Jews wear stars is an obvious historic example of a state cultivating the division, as you ‘couldn’t alway tell’ who the people you were supposed to hate were, some were duplicitous enough not to look like the stereotype…

                It’s jr high school writ large, with more dire results…


    • #229441


      No, just a reply to the OP.  I’m bitterly disappointed by my generation.  We had so much promise.  Then the Establishment MIC PTB grew alarmed at the rise in social and political consciousness that occurred during the 60’s, and engaged in a decades long disinformation/misinformation marketing effort by MSM to lull the citizenry to sleep, and enable the fascist MIC to create a fascist mindset among the boomer generation, a mindset that was responsible for ultimately bringing the fascist POTUS Donald Trump to power in the USA.

      The majority of the boomer generation is pretty much a lost cause, years of brainwashing by skilled malevolent professional marketers can’t be undone.  I applaud all of my fellow boomers who managed to escape the insidious wealthy private interest fascist indoctrination, and maintain their individual identity and consciousness.  What a long, strange trip it’s been.

      As for the rest of the boomer generation…

      there’s someone in your head, but it’s not you.


      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #229486

      Assholes, space cadets, gullibles, conservatives, etc., exist in every age group.

      You know, Ben Shapiro is a Millennial. When his supporters grow up to rule the world, do you want to be blamed for it?

      Supporters of Mr. Shapiro’s at the University of Utah.

    • #229698

      On thing about Boomers is that for many of us the work “socialism” conjures memories of the Soviet invasion of Hungary in 1956.  We are dying off, though, and a much younger electorate hears “socialism” and recalls that conservatives have for all of their lifetimes called any government expenditure that benefits average people “socialist.”   If that’s what socialism is, then they want it.

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

      • #230085

        I never heard the word “Socialism” associated with the 1956 invasion of Hungary– it was always “Communism”. And I knew a couple (RIP) who had escaped from Hungary during that time. They never talked about “Socialism”– just “Communism”.

        • #230518
          Cold Mountain Trail

          same here.  I don’t recall hearing ‘socialism’ much at all, compared to ‘communism,’ which was the main bete noire of my childhood and young adulthood.  It seems to me there days ‘socialism’ is used in the same tenor that ‘communism’ was when I was younger & the ussr was the #1 enemy.  ‘Socialism’ had a different meaning in the past, now I’m not sure what it’s supposed to mean.  It doesn’t seem to have any fixed meaning anymore, just ‘bad’ (to the establishment)

          The ussr dissolved itself in 1991 — it wasn’t so long ago.  Supposedly when it was gone the world was gonna be ‘free’ but we always need new enemies it seems, & sometimes even the old ones in a new form.  The west has always had a problem with russia, pre-rev, soviet, and post-rev.




    • #230080

      There are a lot of “boomer” Bernie Bros out there and a lot here on JPR! I’m not going to stereotype any generation.


    • #230191

      The Russiagate mind-virus has infected many from across the generational spectrum, from Boomers to Millennials.  It’s insidiousness is a result of confirmation bias – proponents desperately want the Russiagate narrative to be true, therefore to them it is true.

      Democratic Boomers and Gen Xers might be a bit more susceptible to this because they have been with the Party for much longer than Millennials and may have a deeper emotional connection to it – they remember the JFK/RFK/MLKjr years and still associate the Democratic Party with those ideals.  Millennials may have a more objective view of the Democrats.

      FWIW, I’m on the cusp of Boomer/Gen X.

      His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
      but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
      and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
      more deadly than his right had been.

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