Home Main Forums General Discussion I thought JPR was about building a New way, a new party and supporting Bernie

  • Silver Witch (5426 posts)
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    I thought JPR was about building a New way, a new party and supporting Bernie

    I never dreamed when I joined JPR would become almost exclusively an Impeach Trump Now© blog site.  Don’t get me wrong I don’t care for Trump one bit.  However, I am much more concerned with finding and building a new party and ending the DNC’s control over what was once a progressive party for and by the people

    I hope all of you having wet dreams about the day Trump is impeached and Pence becomes president realize what the country will then become and I hope you will then join in and help build a party that won’t run Hillary – because it is beyond clear that Hillary is the 2020 choice, she has started her 501(c) PAC and Warren is supporting her Onward Together movement hailing Hillary as an activist.

    The majority of posts here focusing on the horrors of Trump and not the change we all hoped for with Bernie frighten me a because that is the typical strategy of the Democratic Party – may the other side so horrible out of fear people will vote #Blue No Matter Who.

    I am off to find a place dedicated to building something better, something that will finally burn down the democratic party and put a third party on the horizon.  Peace be with all of you here and I hope your dreams of being the blog that brought down Trump come true.

    durruti, CNW, Pastiche and 55 othersTheNutcracker, Oilwellian, DirtyHippyBastard, Totally Liberal Dem, ozoneman, Depaysement, Rotorhead, senz, Paka, tonyl, hopemountain, davidgmills, Shlabotnik, NuttyFluffers, Scott Crowder, Katashi, Spanishprof27, BillZBubb, leveymg, Aerows, shanti, Stockholmer, OCMI, Lord Thomas, 7wo7rees, Betty Karlson, Salemcourt, iggy, Bosco, strangeviews, Hydra, Phlem, Rocker, Xyzse, djean111, Coincidence, FloridaProg, Dragonfli, Pam, Port tack 8, nevereVereven, Nomi Betterman, eomer, Post Removed, dreamnightwind, Beebee, kath, beltanefauve, PennLawyer, Hawkowl, Fire with Fire, whispers, joentokyo, Doremus Jessup, arendt like this
    #Let'sTalkRevolution

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    • arendt (1432 posts)
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      1. Hey, if your really going, leave me some contact info please. n/t

    • draa (827 posts)
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      2. Hmm….

      What’s that they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

       

    • resist99 (883 posts)
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      3. Don't go!

      I think you are in the right place. Staying here would allow you to give input to many people who otherwise think a lot like you do.

       

      My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth. -George Washington ... We could start by cutting the Defense Budget and stopping all the war propaganda.  
    • MannyGoldstein (2286 posts)
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      4. I'm sorry that you no longer agree with Bernie

      I understand, people change.

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
      • joentokyo (643 posts)
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        7. I think you misread this post. The poster is unhappy because the site is

        spending too much time on Trump, and not enough on Bernie.

        “For what can war, but endless war, still breed?” ~John Milton
        • MannyGoldstein (2286 posts)
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          9. The poster has been posting incessantly in opposition to Bernie's stated beliefs

          If I’m wrong, please let me know.

          And looking at the Latest page, I’m not seeing that much about Trump. Which is surprising, given what a big story this is.

          "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
          • Ferd Berfel (5232 posts)
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            47. yep

            …and you think you’re going to stop this simply by ‘pulling a lever’, in a booth, behind a curtain, every 2 years? - Know yourself. And if you need help with that, call the FBI. -  There is only ONE solution to this mess:  New Party !  
          • eomer (231 posts)
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            51. I did a search of recent posts by the poster and…

            … the only “opposition to Bernie’s stated beliefs” I could find  was to the effect that if Bernie thinks the Democratic Party can be changed from within then Bernie is wrong.

            So can you clarify?  Is that the kind of “opposition to Bernie’s stated beliefs” you chose to call her out for?

            I agree with Silver Witch on that.  I also think Bernie is wrong when he says that there is no longer any doubt that the Russians interfered in our election.  He’s repeating the CNN propaganda, in my opinion, and it is troubling to me.

            But I personally still support all or almost all of Bernie’s positions, though I’m to his left and would go further in a lot of cases if and when we can.  I disagree with and am perplexed by his tactics lately.  And I’m much more likely to post here about those things I disagree on than all the other things because there’s not that much point in discussing the things we all agree on.  I’m pretty sure that Silver Witch is in a similar position (though of course I don’t speak for her) and think she deserves a fairer take from you as admin of this site.

            Manny, I’ve been a fan of yours for many years (at the other place, obviously) and still am.  I look forward to continuing to agree with you (as I think Silver Witch does) on all the ultimate goals.  I do hope that anyone so inclined is allowed to disagree here (even with Bernie) about tactics without being called out by an admin for it.

            • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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              116. Doubt

              you’ll get a response from Manny. He like’s to be right. I agree with Silver Witch and so close to leaving myself (Please do tell me how I should leave if I don’t support Bernie 100%) . This site is following that other site but this time its Bernie.  Just look at the response from Manny. He blatantly lies in regard to Silver Witches posts or at minimum twists it. Sickening and he should apologize but doubt he would know how.

              Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
              • MannyGoldstein (2286 posts)
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                155. That's a pretty unkind thing for you to say.

                But let’s give it a shot. Does Silver Witch agree with Bernie on this?

                https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/im-with-bernie-you/

                Seems not. Or, she thinks obstruction of justice is not a big deal – which would still be disagreeing with Bernie. And that’s one of a number of major items where she disagrees with Bernie, yet claims that the JPR does not sufficiently support him. Which is even weirder because we pretty much allow whatever people want to post unless it’s clearly a lie or propaganda. If we limit views to only those that align with Bernie’s – which the poster seems to want – we’d have to kick her (and many other folks) off the site. Which we don’t want to do.

                If you can either disabuse me of my understanding here, or acknowledge that I’m correct, I can name some more. Otherwise… why bother?

                "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
                • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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                  164. Yes

                  why bother. I was referring to your comment in #9 which you seemed to gloss over. Your bombastic comment that that’s ALL Silver Witch posts/talks about. “posting incessantly in opposition to Bernie’s stated beliefs” ignoring as many do here that you can disagree with someone but still respect or question motives as Silver Witch does. I’m not the only one here who see’s you do this. see post #51 . But sure lets go ahead with “why bother” .

                  Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
          • Alloy89 (525 posts)
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            69. Agree.

            CTRL-ALT-RIGHT-DEL
          • ravensong (1725 posts)
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            153. Ya know, Manny…

            the lady doth protest too much, methinks. I have thought…no; I have known for a fact, for a very long time, that something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

            You clearly never really loved Trump, and your opposition to his fascism is upsetting those who really do.

            It’s just like how you never loved Obama, or Clinton. You upset those who who really loved them, and they tombstoned you for it. Same shit, different day.  Except that you are part of the majority here, and no one can or will tombstone you for not loving Trump.

             

             

             

            Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues. ~ Bernie
        • LiberalElite (5564 posts)
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          175. IMHO this thread has become a huge diversion because –

          we’ll never agree on just the right amount of Bernie.

          I feel much better since I've given up hope
      • Cassiopeia (2545 posts)
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        8. Bernie is asking us to focus all of our energy on Trump

        and just accept the the DNC for what they are?

        Bernie is telling us to have wet dreams over impeachment and put building a progressive platform on the back burner?

        Well, if Bernie is telling us that, then I dont agree with him either.

        The only minority we should actually fear is the wealthiest 1%
      • Bonobo (312 posts)
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        30. Just going to pop in and give my visceral reaction to that snark

        To whit, it is precisely the brand of semi-professional web snark that overwhelmed DU and made it such a sickening experience.

        You should cut it out.

         

        And I LIKE you, manny. But seriously. Sick-making stylistically.

        • BillZBubb (2805 posts)
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          99. Agreed!

          Something very “other placey” about that comment.

          DemExit! Don't give the Democrats a dime. Don't identify as a Democrat. Drop Democratic identification below 20%. Only then will they support true progressive policy. Until then, corporate money rules.
        • Oilwellian (149 posts)
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          168. I so agree

          If you want a healthy site, you can’t be a dick to your donors.

      • Flygirl (3018 posts)
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        56. Are you saying Bernie is telling us to support Hillary.. and destroy Trump??

        and shame those not supporting that filthy corrupt bitch??

        According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
        • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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          117. What

          do you not understand? DNC and Dem Party = Clinton. As long as Bernie supports them then that is supporting Clinton. Sure he wants to “change” the party from within (good luck with that!) but lately his actions say support the party.

           

          EDIT: Opp’s sorry i think I miss understood your post. Sorry if I did.

          Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
          • Flygirl (3018 posts)
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            158. I understand it quite well thank you!!

            Ohhh I just saw that you added an edit..thank you!

            According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
            • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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              165. Question.

              Flygirl. Would you prefer I delete my comment or just leave it with the edit? My comment actually is how I feel in general concerning all this with Bernie and his strategy. But its in reply to you so if you want me to delete just let me know :) .

              Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
              • Flygirl (3018 posts)
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                166. Nooooo I took

                no offense…and I saw that you edited..but you didn’t need to…and I agree…DNC Dem Party= Clintons…I am sick to death of the fing Clintons!!

                I believe both belong behind bars..and not bars with booze!!

                According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
                • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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                  167. well

                  that’s harsh Flygirl! No boooze? How about cheese and crackers? LOL. Ok I’ll leave it up. wasn’t sure as it was initially directed at you and didn’t mean to come off mean. Have a great day.

                  Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
      • Beebee (1470 posts)
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        59. He sure did.

        "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
    • ThouArtThat (5401 posts)
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      5. It's All Blood In The Water – The Sharks Are Swarming The Scent Of Death

      eom

      "In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous  
    • HassleCat (1502 posts)
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      6. The impeachment thing is a fun distraction.

      At least that’s all I hope it is.  I hope nobody here seriously thinks it’s worth a great deal of effort, would accomplish very much, deserves considerable energy, etc.

    • Selahedin (743 posts)
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      10. You need a thicker skin if you can't tolerate the latest news cycle.


       

    • bemildred (5083 posts)
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      11. I think JPR is a discussion board, and that is its best and highest purpose.

      There are plenty of advocacy sites, they all suck. I left SV after 15 years because they started censoring news and opinion to suit their own tastes, they sold out. I’ll dump this one too for the same reason, and I don’t care what they say they are FOR.

      I give the JPR crew credit for letting everybody who is willing to be civil about it talk. That is what we need more of, lots more civil talk.

      It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
      • Segami (5538 posts)
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        14. ^^^Here, Here^^^

        Absolutely!

        • bemildred (5083 posts)
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          15. Thank you.

          It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
      • draa (827 posts)
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        16. A lot of us left SV.

        But things were different then. We used to think our vote mattered. We once thought that if we didn’t like people like Clinton or Trump that we could organize and vote them out. That not the case anymore. Our vote no longer matters. We can’t change anything as long as that remains. It’s pointless to invest energy into something we have no vote to change.

        • bemildred (5083 posts)
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          19. Nobody is stopping you from talking about what you want to talk about.

          Or at least I’ve not seen it here.

          I have been aware of the things you mention for around 35 years now, since Raygun was inaugurated and got the full positive treatment by the state propaganda organs, after the way they spent four years denigrating Jimmy Carter. I’ve been waiting since then for the current debacle. Corruption has consequences too.

          It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
          • draa (827 posts)
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            22. No ones stopping anyone really, but that wasn't my point.

            I don’t care what people talk about but talking about getting rid of Trump is damn funny when their own party has stolen their vote. They damn well don’t seem concerned. The DNC lawsuit showed people that they have no vote in the Democratic Party. At least not enough to change anything above state level.

            • bemildred (5083 posts)
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              24. I know what you mean, I'm not sayin I don't.

              All the “get Trump” threads annoy me too.

              But it’s not like it is difficult to understand, anymore than the people enraged about Clinton are hard to understand.

              I think we need to do a lot of things. Trump is doing an excellent job of demolishing the present system and I’m not in a hurry to stop him, but I don’t have a problem with people who think that’s bad, it will be bad. I don’t think “not bad” is really on the table at this point. The question is “How bad?”

              We need to talk to each other now. Running off to do a new site won’t do a thing except lead to more frustration.

              It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
              • draa (827 posts)
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                26. I left Nov 7th and I just returned.

                But I may not stay around long.

                This site used to be about opposition to the establishment. Now? I’m not so sure. I know that a number of people have either left or been banned. Sabrina and TM99 being 2 that I can think of. A number of people that were here fighting when I left are still here but they seem to be drowned out by a minority of people who have free rein. Meh.

                For what it’s worth we’ve tried complaining about Republicans for nearly 20 years online. It hasn’t worked and nothing has changed. And it’s distracted us enough that our old party has been cheating us and we didn’t even know. It’s time for a change. It’s time to forget the GOP and fix the Democrats. It seems though that some people don’t want to change so here we are complaining about Republicans again. I just don’t care to play that game again. Also, see comment #2 in this thread and you’ll understand how I feel about that.

                • bemildred (5083 posts)
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                  31. I concur about fixing the Democrats.

                  That is the way to go, bottom up, statehouses first.

                  And good luck.

                  It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
                • peacecorps (3901 posts)
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                  53. Bernie opposes both Trump/GOP and Hillary/DNC.

                  This site used to be about opposition to the establishment.

                  Many of us see the conservative, pro-1% president as part of the establishment – as is the DNC.

                  It’s time to forget the GOP and fix the Democrats.

                  Many of us think we can ‘walk’ and ‘chew gum’ at the same time, as Bernie seems capable of doing and apparently believes is the way to build a vibrant progressive movement for the future. Most of Bernie’s statements, tweets and posts seem to me to be directed at opposing conservative policies coming from the White House and congress, though he continues also to speak out on the disfunction of the DP, as well.

                  If others prefer to focus on ‘walking’ OR ‘chewing gum’ (oppose GOP/Trump OR Hillary/DNC) that is fine with me. My mouse clicks on the links that I tell it to click on.

                  • draa (827 posts)
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                    180. When you have a vote to change something let me know.

                    Until then I’m more concerned with getting my vote back before I complain about shit I have no way to change. If Trump or Pence or Ryan is President in 2020 the best you can do is vote for who ever the Democratic Party tells you to vote for.

                    By the way, it’s NEVER been about Bernie. We didn’t need Bernie to tell us they were starving our children. We knew everything he said. Bernie was simply the vessel that carried our message. Stop with this “what would Bernie do” bullshit. I don’t care. If he runs again he has my support, but as the Democratic Party has made perfectly clear, he may not have my vote. Or at least one that matters. But just because he’s siding with the people that fucked us and playing THEIR game doesn’t mean I have to or that we should.

                • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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                  121. And

                  How about the Bernie worship getting worse here. Just as it started long ago at the other site with Obama and Clinton. And then when you have Admin replying or posting in a manor in which I personally think is disgraceful (See Manny’s post above twisting what Silver Witch posts) smacks of that other place right down to a tee.

                  Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
                  • Oilwellian (149 posts)
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                    169. It's almost worse than that other place

                    At least there you were attacked by other members and not the owner of the site.

                    • LiberalElite (5564 posts)
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                      172. Yeah the owner just did stuff like ban members from jury duty…. otherwise

                      he was real hands off.  Sure.

                      I feel much better since I've given up hope
                  • LiberalElite (5564 posts)
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                    173. Where's the Bernie worship here, please? Examples? or would you

                    rather that there be no mention of him at all ?

                    I feel much better since I've given up hope
                    • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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                      178. Edited

                      and deleted this response. Too tired and don’t think I responded in the right manner. And I went way off topic of the OP which I do at times.

                      Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
                • Pacco Fransisco (4076 posts)
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                  130. Yeah those 'community standards & guidelines' are a problem for some.

                  I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
                • LiberalElite (5564 posts)
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                  174. "fix the Democrats"??? You really think that can be done? eom

                  I feel much better since I've given up hope
          • Pacco Fransisco (4076 posts)
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            113. The op would apparently like the site to have all talk about Rump…

            or impeachment blocked …as if this site is supposed to be static instead of dynamic.

            I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
            • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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              122. And

              you lack comprehension. That is not Silver Witches meaning and intent in any of her posts. Never has been.

              Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
              • Pacco Fransisco (4076 posts)
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                129. I'll let you know if I need your insight into what SW means.

                I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
              • mossyfrog (509 posts)
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                162. Obviusly

                You need some sort of help since you don’t seem to understand that Silver Witch is not all about Thrumpf. She makes some very good points but your so easy to dismiss with simple statements that are not true. Being a Mod you should know better or at least not be bombastic in your statements.

                Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
      • ThomPaine (4465 posts)
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        17. Well said.

        aka rhett o rick.     The rich treat us like ants. They may avoid stepping on us, but if our home is in the way of their new swimming pool, we can kiss our ants goodbye.
      • madfloridian (2022 posts)
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        27. I very much agree.

        It’s a place for discussion and tossing around ideas.   We do not all have to agree on everything.   I don’t post here about my activism because each of us have our own ways.

        To me JPR is about our country and the way it is headed.  I think Bernie Sanders is the one who woke up so many people, and I think he will go down in history for that.

        If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
        • bemildred (5083 posts)
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          32. I just don't think you can do both.

          I think public forums are important to a democracy, and our democracy lacks them.

          JPR is not perfect, but it does fill that need, most of all they enforce civility. The lack of civility and substance is the flaw in many internet forums, they become overwhelmed with crap. The same thing happens when they sell out. Blogs like Moon of Alabama and Naked Capitalism are very imformative and substantive but lack the infrastructure for open and wide-ranging discussion. But they do weed out a lot of crap and allow anybody with something to say to post. Reddit’s Syrian Civil War blog is very good that way, they have severe rules about conduct, but you can post anything relevant (with appropriate warnings) and argue all you want.

          It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
      • Haikugal (6085 posts)
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        82. Highly recommend this post. Thank you!

        👍

          Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!! Kick against the pricks!!!
    • KauaiK (3530 posts)
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      13. There are more than a few of us here that agree with you.

      I don’t give a rats ass about Trump.   The US Gov’t is nothing but legalized bribery and they’re all the same.  Trump will do himself in without impeachment.

      We cannot build something new; something better with Bernie if we are constantly falling into the trap of fighting the GOP and the Dems.

       

      Critical thinking is the vaccine for charlatans of the world who exploit ignorance - JPR's own So Far From Heaven.

      • bemildred (5083 posts)
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        20. If you are going to not be divisive, you have to be inclusive.

        The US government would like nothing better than for us to stay in our little factions and cliques, call each other names, and argue with each other about how to fix it.

        It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
      • ThomPaine (4465 posts)
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        23. I find it strange when progressives complain that too many people are talking

        about this or that.  You are free to read what you want.  I hope the idea isn’t to restrict what others decide to write about.

        aka rhett o rick.     The rich treat us like ants. They may avoid stepping on us, but if our home is in the way of their new swimming pool, we can kiss our ants goodbye.
        • madfloridian (2022 posts)
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          28. Exactly.

          If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
        • Alloy89 (525 posts)
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          115. Well said.

          CTRL-ALT-RIGHT-DEL
    • jdpriestly (5879 posts)
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      18. Start some threads on topics you would like to talk about.

      Thanks if you do.

      No Truth!  No Trust!  Bernie or Bust!
    • ThomPaine (4465 posts)
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      21. I suggest you read the mission of JPR

      “Jackpine Radicals is dedicated to promoting ideas and actions that will improve economic and social fairness in our country, and our world. That includes discussion and implementation of policies that work for all of us, and candidates for political office who favor these good policies. Broadly speaking, these are the types of policies implemented by ‘Traditional’ Democrats from the early 1930s until the mid 1970s, a period where the typical American’s prosperity grew year after year.”

      Posted here:  https://jackpineradicals.com/about-jackpine-radicals/

      And I take exception that JPR has become exclusive “Impeach Trump Now”.  That’s not true.  Look at the OP’s in General Discussion.  Makes me wonder why you think it necessary to disparage JPR.

      Maybe I missed them, but I haven’t noticed you posting much about, “a New way, a new party and supporting Bernie”.

      aka rhett o rick.     The rich treat us like ants. They may avoid stepping on us, but if our home is in the way of their new swimming pool, we can kiss our ants goodbye.
      • U4ikLefty (347 posts)
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        35. disparage JPR??? Is that like 'hate America'???

        lol

        Proud to be a spoiled brat
      • Ferd Berfel (5232 posts)
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        49. ^^^^ This ^^^^

        …and you think you’re going to stop this simply by ‘pulling a lever’, in a booth, behind a curtain, every 2 years? - Know yourself. And if you need help with that, call the FBI. -  There is only ONE solution to this mess:  New Party !  
      • glinda (2168 posts)
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        134. You are absolutely right. Where are those Trump posts btw?

        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
    • incognito (1933 posts)
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      25. After they install RW, wacko religious nutjob, Pence, all we'll hear

      is Pence! Russia! Flynn! Pence! Dominionist! Russia! Flynn! Dominionist! Have to get rid of him! Trump redux, wash, rinse and repeat. And apparently, many here like being fucked over by the Democratic party. It’s their abusive relationship they just can’t get out of. I don’t know how many times you have to be screwed over before it sinks in that the corrupt Dem party deliberately stole your votes and money because they had no intention of letting Bernie win.

       

      They chose CHUCK SCHUMER to lead the Senate, NANCY PELOSI to lead the Dems in the House and TOM PEREZ (after SCREWING OVER, Keith Ellison) to head the DNC! They bashed you over the head telling you they aren’t going to change a fucking thing for you. And you still believe you can “change the party” from within. You can’t and you won’t.

      After all this Trump Russia, DNC PROPAGANDA that you bought – hook, line and sinker…you have no arguments left for Pence and if you think you do, you’re a hypocrite because you have been warned hundreds of times about how dangerous he is. You’re now the flip-side of the coin of all those SV holdouts for Hillary. You’re no different. They bought into the DNC bullshit propaganda against WikiLeaks and you bought into the DNC bullshit propaganda about Russia!! Yet you know Hillary pulled that story out of her sorry arse the night she lost the election. It was to deflect her loss. You knew that and still joined in on the Trump! Russia! Bullshit. You’ve learned nothing.

      Don’t go, Silver Witch. Stay to do what we’re suppose to be here to do…start a new PROGRESSIVE PARTY.

      DemExited! They’re corrupt to the core people! They’re not changing for anyone. Especially you.

      DEMEXITED BECAUSE THEY'RE CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

      • Flygirl (3018 posts)
        Profile photo of Flygirl Donor

        63. ^^^This^^^^ Thank you…

        hook , line, sinker…

        According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
      • Bosco (56 posts)
        Profile photo of Bosco

        85. This! Right. Fucking. Here!

        Amazingly righteous rant! Thank you!

        • incognito (1933 posts)
          Profile photo of incognito Donor

          91. Thank you, Bosco.

          :hi:

          DEMEXITED BECAUSE THEY'RE CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

      • Stockholmer (2194 posts)
        Profile photo of Stockholmer Donor

        86. Yes, to start to build an actual left wing opposition party in your 2 party

        system you need to mortally wound the faux left wing corporatist one that now has tens of millions of potential left wing voters trapped in its gaping maw of neoliberal flim-flam, duped and sheep-dogged by bright and shiny wedge issues and identity politics that NEVER go to the crux of the biscuit.. that being corrupt systemic banking and multinational firm control of your economy, your empiric war machine, and your social needs infrastructure (ie. healthcare, tertiary education, and wealth equality-ensuring income redistribution schemes).

        • incognito (1933 posts)
          Profile photo of incognito Donor

          90. We are fighting so many factions, it's hard to keep track of who's who

          GOP, Neoconservative, Teabaggers, NeoLiberals, Liberals, Greens, Progressives. Not only that, we have all those factions trying to infiltrate and take over the Progressive Party…Justice Democrats/Ro Khanna and then we have Hillary actually trying to portray herself as a Progressive. Third Wayers saying everything they need to say to Progressives just to get their votes – then when in office, they turn right…Cory Booker comes to mind.. One doesn’t know who to trust. Even on JPR, I question some who post here.

          And>>>

          ” systemic banking and multinational firm control of your economy, your empiric war machine, and your social needs infrastructure (ie. healthcare, tertiary education, and wealth equality-ensuring income redistribution schemes” <<<

          The only way any of that changes is by electing Bernie or someone just like him. I honestly don’t know how anyone like that can survive the Deep State’s stranglehold on this country. They are entrenched in every branch of government and every connected entity. The only chance is another Civil war, but the Deep State has that controlled too…they’ve militarized our local police departments and those police departments have carte blanche to do whatever they want to the citizens…Occupy Wall St., Flint, MI, Standing Rock, Ferguson, MO.

          I’m not seeing our way out of this. No light at the end of the tunnel. If Pence becomes President, it will only get worse.

          DEMEXITED BECAUSE THEY'RE CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

          • glinda (2168 posts)
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            135. There is only one cure for what you mention and that is to actually have a

            “Progressive Party” so that there is legal and actual delineation between groups. Without that they will steal anything and everything and continue to lie.

            Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
        • Green Dog Dem (3276 posts)
          Profile photo of Green Dog Dem

          140. But how do we do that without ceding absolute control to the repukes?

          Even a few years of one-party rule by them would be disastrous. 

          Aloha! KamaAina in the hale (house).
      • ThinkingANew (1363 posts)
        Profile photo of ThinkingANew

        101. +1+1+1!

        "(modern) newspapers publish nothing more than “weaponized text"" “When you read a newspaper article, you are reading weaponized text that is designed to affect a person just like you." Julian Assange  
      • mossyfrog (509 posts)
        Profile photo of mossyfrog

        123. + freakin 1 !

        And as long as Bernie keeps up with this farce of “change from within” the distraction and them “givin us something to believe in” will continue and NOTHING will ever really change.

        Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
        • glinda (2168 posts)
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          137. He has his game plan and you should develop your own. Maybe you have.

          Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
          • mossyfrog (509 posts)
            Profile photo of mossyfrog

            163. Yes

            I have. Its called Demexit and i joined the Greens. I know that they are not perfect as I know that Bernie is not perfect but at least they understand the simplest reality and that is the Est. Dem’s will not change nor will they ever allow change. And even if they came out and said we’ve seen the light. How could anybody believe it except those who are still running at Lucy’s football. bernie’s been at this game long enough with the Dem’s to know this, so why does it seem he does not? I guess he has a magic wand or something.

            Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
            • glinda (2168 posts)
              Profile photo of glinda Donor

              171. Perhaps he manages to keep his voice heard. Perhaps we do not see every diagram

              of plays.

              Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
              • mossyfrog (509 posts)
                Profile photo of mossyfrog

                176. yet

                do you truly believe that if he was to stand up and say enough and leave to start something better that he would suddenly disappear? Sure the main media would try, TRY to ignore him but didn’t they try that when he was running against their goddess? Didn’t quite work out like they hoped. So many people back Bernie and would have his name continue to reach the highest rafters. So this idea of him not being able to reach people is pure fud.

                Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
                • glinda (2168 posts)
                  Profile photo of glinda Donor

                  177. He is seasoned enough to know many ways to reach out to the public. Doubtful he

                  limits his options.

                  Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
              • Bernice Ta (412 posts)
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                181. The only problem I have with this is, we've heard it before.

                Perhaps we do not see every diagram

                Remember how Obama was playing eleventh dimensional chess, and we should just trust and wait? How’d that work out for any of us, outside of the one percent?

                I like Bernie. I like what he’s done over the years, and I believe with all my heart that he would have been a great president. But if he’s starting to toe the party line, and think the Dems will change, then he’s wrong. We’ve tried that for decades, remember? How did that work for us?

                As for JPR, I believe we should be able to discuss anything rationally. I don’t want to see this place go the route of that other place (and the other, other places we used to trust and depend on). When people can’t have different opinions and talk about things that are happening and affect how this world is going, then we might as well shut the doors and go home.

                One thing that seems obvious is the old game plans are still in play. We’re being distracted and disrupted to keep us from coming together despite our differences, because together we will win and that is not what the overlords want. They like being on top, getting all the wealth and privilege while the rest of us eat our own.

                Silverwitch, I hope you change your mind and stay. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts, and it makes me sad to think so many people are leaving or being forced out of a site that was supposed to fight for progressive reform. It seems to go against our stated purpose.

                • glinda (2168 posts)
                  Profile photo of glinda Donor

                  183. There do not appear to be many leaving nor forced out so present your numbers.

                  Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
      • MrMickeysMom (1743 posts)
        Profile photo of MrMickeysMom Donor

        127. I've got a pretty good idea, Silver Witch…

        Let’s continue to infuse anything we want here, including clucking our tongue at what kind of game Bernie Sanders has to apparently play now to keep his name in the news.

        I posted something earlier about China watching and laughing at us while they are getting ready to link with international trade. The goop/poop of Russia! Russia! Russia! is mental mastrubation. Go over there and contribute to my OP on that.

        Meanwhile, I feel I have a much better social intercourse here versus Hill’s Treasurer’s husband’s place.

         

        Hell no...I'm not giving up...     cat-gif-238.gif giphy.gif
      • ozoneman (549 posts)
        Profile photo of ozoneman Donor

        157. Wow, that was good!!!

        and so very true.

        • incognito (1933 posts)
          Profile photo of incognito Donor

          161. I honestly wish it wasn't, but

          sadly, it is.

          Thank you, ozoneman. :hi:

          DEMEXITED BECAUSE THEY'RE CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

      • Oilwellian (149 posts)
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        170. Thank you! n/t

    • Hawkowl (1356 posts)
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      29. When you find the place

      Can you come back and let me know ?  I too would like to go.

      "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - Burke
      • glinda (2168 posts)
        Profile photo of glinda Donor

        138. Maybe she should start one. More fighters the better.

        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
    • Colors of the Rainbow (1488 posts)
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      33. I haven’t paid attention

      I haven’t paid attention to what topics get posted and to assess what may motivate some or all of them.

       

      I was not at that other site. But, after coming across others having mentioned it, I checked it out. It’s understandable why there are people here who used to be present there and have since left that discussion site for this one. I don’t care to participate on a site dominated by party suckups. Right now, both the Republican and Democratic parties are garbage.

       

      I hope for the best for JackPineRadicals.

    • U4ikLefty (347 posts)
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      34. I see the old SV retort of "Hey. Start you own thread. We are free to discus…"

      line being repeated by the usual suspects.  I feel it is just another way of saying ‘love it or leave it’ and it is sad to see this occurring here as well.

      Proud to be a spoiled brat
      • madfloridian (2022 posts)
        Profile photo of madfloridian Donor

        37. Oh come on. What was meant that we are free to start our own topics.

        If people don’t want to join in they don’t have to do so.   I think some people are reading way too much into a few posts.

        No, I don’t think it is love it or leave it here.

        What I am seeing is that there is a segment of the left, liberals, progressives, what we may be called that are unwilling to accept any deviation from a norm set by them for everyone.

        Life doesn’t work that way.

         

         

        If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
        • davidgmills (5690 posts)
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          118. I don't think it is love it or leave it here.

          But I do think there is a clear demarcation between those who feel it is futile to try to reform the Democratic Party and those who have given up on it.

          Those who seek to reform it are more inclined to have something to say about Trump.  Those who have DemExited just see Trump as a distraction and are frustrated by discussion of his myriad woes, fuck-ups, and shadiness.

          French Revolution; not secession.
      • tripleQ (617 posts)
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        60. Isn't it saying "love it or leave it or change it"??

        On any discussion site, each person gets a voice, and the loudness of one’s voice is determined by how often you post and how many people echo back “Plus One!”  If the OP has stuff to say and lots of people agree, she will speak up if she wants. and many will follow her lead if they want.   Yay democracy.

        What tends to mess  up boards like this is creeping lack of civility that drives away all the thin-skinned people and all the minority opinions that get bullied and attacked by the mob (the tolerant progressive mob!) because they express an unorthodox opinion.  I have sympathy for people who leave for that reason.  But she isn’t saying she feels bullied – she is saying she doesn’t like reading so many opinions that are different from her opinion.  And so she’s off in search of a narrower place where a greater majority of people are more identical to her in outlook and interest.

        That’s her right.   Love it, change it, or leave it.  There’s an option to suit everyone.

      • mossyfrog (509 posts)
        Profile photo of mossyfrog

        125. Or

        how about the Admin coming down on posts with shaming or snarky remarks. they remind me of the teacher who gives credibility to bullying. NOT that I think JPR has gotten to the extreme (yet) of that other site but some Admins (IE: post 9) should know better having been at the other site for years.

        Green-logo-300x84 Join us and be truly Revolutionary!        
      • glinda (2168 posts)
        Profile photo of glinda Donor

        139. Don't be so quick to throw hair of newts into the caldrun as it looks premature

        and……

        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
    • dreamnightwind (1361 posts)
      Profile photo of dreamnightwind Donor

      36. I value your posts here

      and hope you will reconsider.

      I totally get where you’re coming from, and have no interest in using this forum for Trump bashing, that happens everywhere and it lowers our line of sight.

      Re the Democratic Party, I think the inside-outside strategy is the way forward. The only way to force the party to change is to build a viable alternative. They can work for the people or they can work for their large donors, not both. Bernie working inside is unfortunate but can still move things forward, if we do our part and prepare an alternative.

      Surprising to me to see people who bravely stood up to blind partisanship on SV buying into the manipulations of those same forces now, and losing sight of our main objective, which is that we should never again be faced with the choice between a Republican and a corporate Democrat.

       

      • madfloridian (2022 posts)
        Profile photo of madfloridian Donor

        38. Just curious what category my post about Trump and Dominionists would be in.

        Is it a thoughtful topic requiring consideration?  It is simply attacking Trump?

        Where do we draw a line about what is acceptable.

        https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/has-trump-enabled-dominionists-and-reconstructionists/

        If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
        • dreamnightwind (1361 posts)
          Profile photo of dreamnightwind Donor

          39. I am stating my preference, not what is acceptable

          and I had already read the OP you linked here, it was excellent, speaking of the perils of enabling President Pence.

          I took it as a cautionary tale of backing the deep state rejection of Trump, a creep worthy of rapid ejection but being hounded out of office by all the wrong forces for all the wrong reasons, setting precedents which could later be used by the deep state against an outlier like Bernie (they will make up the justifications and amplify them with their media) should we ever be fortunate enough to see a President Sanders.

          Your OP also correctly noted that a number of Democrats are part of stealthy fundamentalist cults, including HRC and The Family. I was surprised how this never became an issue during Hillary’s campaign, but not that surprised, issues are framed by the powerful.

          So I am surprised at your question.

          • madfloridian (2022 posts)
            Profile photo of madfloridian Donor

            41. Question was actually directed in a general way.

            Because I guess I am confused about why some are so angry.   I agree we shouldn’t go overboard on Trump’s problems.

            Mostly just thinking out loud because I think JPR is allowing good discussions and some  very controversial stuff as a rule. :hi:

            If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
            • dreamnightwind (1361 posts)
              Profile photo of dreamnightwind Donor

              43. I see

              Well, I am not angry about it and love this place, so I can’t speak to that. I do sometimes push back on anti-Trump tunnel vision.

              I would like to see more of our energy going towards carving a way forward, one that backs and elects progressive populists without corporate campaign money.

              It’s so much easier to ridicule the orange buffoon, but in the end, we’re no better for it.

    • Post Removed (854 posts)
      Profile photo of Post Removed Donor

      40. I am glad to have read your posts.

      To bad this place no longer cares about your views. When I first got here I did not pay attention to your posts because I saw the Silver Witch and associated it with Wicca. I have come to the conclusion that you are not half bad. You are definitely better than than half of the Bernie supporters this place has to offer. By half I mean Admins included, if it is that much.

      • madfloridian (2022 posts)
        Profile photo of madfloridian Donor

        42. There are some pretty great Bernie supporters here.

        It could get pretty tough to figure out which ones are better or worse.

        I often rec Silver Witch’s posts, and more often that not agree with her.

        If a person is required to be loyal to a political party and not question their stands on issues, then any semblance of real truth is lost. https://twitter.com/madfloridian
        • Post Removed (854 posts)
          Profile photo of Post Removed Donor

          45. True

          I have not agreed with you at times, but I love your posts against for profit privatizing schools.

      • Dragonfli (1333 posts)
        Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

        76. Strange, I had the opposite reaction to the name hoping it was a wiccan one

        What exactly displeases you about people who’s main and only unbreakable rule is “‘an it harm none, do what thou will?”

        I find the pious to often be synonymous with perversion and the honesty and refreshing hedonistic passivity of neo pagan folk to be more trustworthy. Perhaps you should attend a neo-pagan festival and learn a bit about those whom you would disparage out of hand, myself included, my pious removable friend that fears the ways of the wise ones out of little but ignorance of their ways.

        “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

          

        • Ohio Barbarian (5164 posts)
          Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

          109. Neopagan festivals are a blast. Love 'em.

          Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
          • Dragonfli (1333 posts)
            Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

            112. The Mead is usually of the highest quality if you find the right group

            ;-)

            “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

              

    • ReTooled (728 posts)
      Profile photo of ReTooled Donor

      44. I hope your dreams of being the blog that brought down Trump come true

      Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lawd split ya.

      #FreeLeonardPeltier  #NoDAPL
    • FugitiveBirdie (1748 posts)
      Profile photo of FugitiveBirdie

      46. I agree and I think what is happening is purposeful.

      I think that certain people and their sock puppets are manipulating the discussion and sliding the forums.

      I believe it is a deliberate attempt to keep us from reforming the Democratic Party and to bore or frustrate us.

      I feel that this is the time to fight back.

      Don’t let their propaganda go unchallenged.

      And I think we need to move the anti-Trump propaganda to its own forum or change the way the threads are ordered.

      Recommends should be worth more than just kicks.

      • Post Removed (854 posts)
        Profile photo of Post Removed Donor

        48. True, make a trumpgasm forum.

        And after these Bernie supporters? get rid of trump they can start a Pencegasm

      • democraticdork (35 posts)
        Profile photo of democraticdork

        50. absolutely

        and it is even more true with all those “Russia, Russia” distractions.

      • tripleQ (617 posts)
        Profile photo of tripleQ

        62. You are accusing people of having bad intentions.

        Some people are gonna just plain disagree with you or see things differently from you.  They don’t deserve to be called propagandists.  They aren’t necessarily evil plotters out to undermine  the country.   I wish every discussion site would have the rule of thumb that unless you have *evidence* that someone is employed by an outside manipulator (which seem ridiculously unlikely… Who would waste their money?), then assume that people with different opinions are just people with different opinions.

        Pointing fingers and accusing others of “propaganda” is just a way of bullying those who hold different views.  And it’s a classless and irrational debate strategy.

        • FugitiveBirdie (1748 posts)
          Profile photo of FugitiveBirdie

          70. You do know that people are paid to sling propaganda….

          • tripleQ (617 posts)
            Profile photo of tripleQ

            79. As I said: if u have evidence someone is getting paid,

            Then by all means publicize it.

            But your post above offers no evidence, just your allegations without anything to back them.

            Please provide whatever evidence you are sitting on.

            I will also point out that according to the Alexa ratings, this is a small site that is growing smaller all the time.  I am guessing that anyone who wanted to pay a shill, would send them to a bigger and older established discussion site.   More bang for the buck that way.

            McCarthy lobbed accusations without evidence.  I am against that nonsense.

            • FugitiveBirdie (1748 posts)
              Profile photo of FugitiveBirdie

              144. Your feigned ignorance is a bit revealing…

      • hopemountain (2287 posts)
        Profile photo of hopemountain Donor

        132. i'm in agreement with fugitive birdie and

        also agree we could use a trump forum.

        let’s stay focused on building a new party and pushing for medicare for all – and all that goes with it – lowered premiums and fair drug pricing, free college tuition, living wages, increasing social security for seniors/disabled, a progressive program to support our vets and their families, an equitable education future and opportunities for children from pre school to college, and, environmental justice. and, electing honest, integral progressives at all levels of government.

        the trump russia election shit is just that. shit. there is corruption and collusion with russia – but it is about money and business, real estate, and natural resources. it is going to take a whole lot of unraveling to get to most of it. meanwhile, the gop will implode, and hopefully, clinton, too.

        i want america to be a place for my kids and their kids to still see it as a home of opportunity and beauty and peace and equity for all.

        "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth .... "question everything – including, organizations touting labels proclaiming stewardship of living things and high ideals when in truth, they fanatically practice the stewardship of exploitation, greed, and destruction."
    • 99Forever (3508 posts)
      Profile photo of 99Forever Moderator

      54. This a political discussion forum.

      The members choose what they want to discuss by what they post. Censoring or pushing the direction of discussion is kept to a minimum by design. No one is stopping anyone from having the conversation you suggest. Honestly, isn’t that the sort of crap that we hoped to get away from?

      Sorry that JPR isn’t conforming to what you expect it to be, to the point you feel the need to post this GBCW announcement. I myself, have no impression that our community is anything close to being a almost exclusively an Impeach Trump Now© blog site.”  In fact, I think that is an unfair and derogatory thing to say about us and what we do. Good luck in your search for a site that conforms exactly to your personal wants.

    • FloridaProg (417 posts)
      Profile photo of FloridaProg

      55. I agree with your views on this.

      But do keep in mind that this site is not where action will take place, nor will it ever be. It would be good to be a site dedicated to organizing, but that isn’t going to happen. You’ve got to get out in your own community and either join others or create your own. You’ve got to talk to real people who don’t know. You have to knock on doors. Join a service organization and get involved. That’s what I’ve done and it is well worth the time and effort. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

      You can take some comfort in the elements who you identified as having made this “almost exclusively an Impeach Trump Now© blog site” have little influence here and none outside of here. That’s encouraging to note since their short-sightedness and ill-temperament would be a hindrance. Better they be here spinning their wheels than out in public making things worse for those investing the sweat equity in creating a progressive movement.

      #DEMEXIT asap if you haven't already. It's your duty as a citizen.
    • tripleQ (617 posts)
      Profile photo of tripleQ

      57. Okay – build a new party.

      I’m sure many here will follow.  You might be the leader and guide they’ve been waiting for.

      Your  post  seems to be haranguing and tongue-lashing people for posting stuff against Trump.  Hell, Bernie says stuff against Trump.  Some of us want him gone, some of us prefer to keep him clowning around where he is.  Opinions differ.  There’s a whole thread about it.

      But if you wanna lead, lead.  If you wanna change things, go right ahead.   What exactly is it you are expecting from others?

       

    • faultindicator (973 posts)
      Profile photo of F I Donor

      58. After Rip Van Winkle woke, he entered a town hall meeting at the tavern

      He was queried to which party he planned to support. Not knowing a revolution occurred during his twenty year sleep, he proclaimed support for the King. His attitude changed in an instant.

      Just like RVW, the American people will resist the change until others make it happen, then all of a sudden the change is something they have always supported. We need you on the front lines SilverWitch – so your long nap has to wait.

      A reasonable request: Reduce daily TV viewing time by 1/2 hour starting now. Ask others to do the same, follow through with them, break the media habit. FI - Simple and straight forward, just like this place, solutions without the bullshit.
    • Lizzie Poppet (460 posts)
      Profile photo of Lizzie Poppet Donor

      61. Impeachment, of course, is a terrible idea.

      I mean, President Pence. All anyone should need to know about impeaching the Tangerine Toddler…

      • djean111 (5224 posts)
        Profile photo of djean111 Donor

        65. It is fucking bizarre how little thought is given to President Pence.

        Although I do recall reading somewhere, a while back, that Hillary was okay with that.  Not that I think Hillary’s opinion on anyone or anything is worth a bucket of warm puke, but they do agree on austerity and war.

        • *Obligatory disclaimer - when I say "Democratic Party" I mean the DNC - the Clintons and the un-elected people and the consultants and the lobbyists and the corporations who actually run things.  The people who work and vote and are registered as "D" are no more the actual party than Trekkies are Star Trek.   Extra credit - the Democratic Party gets to actually fuck up your life. When you vote for it.
        You think the only reason that people won't vote for a warmongering Third Way fracking-enabling cluster bomb throwing H-1B increasing lying pandering corporate and Wall Street shill who says she has no problem putting abortion rights on the table is because we are mad about Bernie?  Um, nope.
        • tripleQ (617 posts)
          Profile photo of tripleQ

          81. If Trump is found to be a criminal,

          would you give him a free pass just to save yourself from President Pence?

          I prefer the current Mad King too – but if he is actually guilty of something impeachable, I want him to face  the normal consequences.  I can’t see sheltering and protecting his criminal ass just because I want to save my own ass from The Pencemonster.

          Law is law.  Justice is justice.  Even if it hurts me personally.

          • djean111 (5224 posts)
            Profile photo of djean111 Donor

            83. I am sure that will be a supreme comfort to those who suffer from the

            war and austerity.  And I understand Pence is quite against LBGT, too.  The thing is, I consider that Bush and both Clintons were criminals, and do not remember such a hue and cry about them.  It is not just my ass, by the way.  It is everybody’s asses.   What is going on now seems like a personal vendetta, damn the consequences.  And we may end up with a president who is eager for that end of days conflict.  Whoo-hoo!

            • *Obligatory disclaimer - when I say "Democratic Party" I mean the DNC - the Clintons and the un-elected people and the consultants and the lobbyists and the corporations who actually run things.  The people who work and vote and are registered as "D" are no more the actual party than Trekkies are Star Trek.   Extra credit - the Democratic Party gets to actually fuck up your life. When you vote for it.
            You think the only reason that people won't vote for a warmongering Third Way fracking-enabling cluster bomb throwing H-1B increasing lying pandering corporate and Wall Street shill who says she has no problem putting abortion rights on the table is because we are mad about Bernie?  Um, nope.
            • tripleQ (617 posts)
              Profile photo of tripleQ

              88. I hear that side. But I have to back the rule of law.

        • Bernice Ta (412 posts)
          Profile photo of Bernice Ta Donor

          182. Pence scares the crap out of me!

          As bad as Trump can get, I believe in the end the Republicans will rein him in to some extent. It does them no good to destroy everything, or how else will they and their masters continue to accumulate wealth and power?

          But evangelical, bring on the apocalypse fringe? Oh, that’s going to be the true end of us all. Those people spout the usual nonsense, but they truly want everything and everyone on this planet to die. With the exception of themselves, being the “chosen” ones, of course. But they don’t care about the environment, because they truly believe they won’t be here to suffer.

          These folks don’t really want all the money and power they’ve gotten, it’s just a means to an end. Their reward comes after it’s all gone, when they’ve been raptured up to live a pure, wonderful life with Jesus. We ignore them to our peril.

      • Green Dog Dem (3276 posts)
        Profile photo of Green Dog Dem

        141. I suspect that Twitler picked Pence as impeachment insurance.

        Much like Dumbya did with Quayle.  Or should I say “imorangement”? 

         

        Aloha! KamaAina in the hale (house).
    • Two way street (2572 posts)
      Profile photo of Two way street Donor

      64. Hope you will stay around and receive relief in seeking fair elections

      for the future.

      I am hopeful in the relief of the ‘DNC Judge’ asking Barack Obama if he lied to the American People about his campaign promises and did he deceive the American people about a fair election of Democratic Party candidates for the 2016 Presidential Nomination.  I want to hear about his gang activities.  Where did he learn his Party activities from.

      IMO we should join Bernie in his work to remake America in the, Greatness of We the People, not worry over Trump’s 1%.  The ideals of the Greatest Generation, need to resurface in striving for the Second Bill of Rights as well as the keeping of the First Bill of Rights that third way presidents seem to trample on as they become Agents of the Oligarchy.  In the coming General Election, either Bernie writes the contracts of the Democratic Party or he will write them outside the Democratic Party.  Right now, Party leaders like Obama are writing the history.   Activation toward the Second Bill of Rights can change that.  A Second Bill of Rights March would be grand (First Amendment could be on signs and T-Shirts too).  How could Trump stop that?

      Every town could have a National Voting Holiday-Second Bill of Rights Parade.  Flag Day is June 14th.

      Draft Bernie for a people's party becomes Draft Bernie for a people's single-payer party-Medicare for All.
    • Xyzse (3202 posts)
      Profile photo of Xyzse Donor

      66. Actually I thought of JPR as being something that we make of it.

      Meaning, it seems to be looking for a different way.

      In regards to impeaching Trump, I prefer him to stay till he gets beaten through elections.  I guess in that sense, it is the current topic du jour.  I still think getting Pence is worse, and I have stated that from everything that has been happening, I still think he provides more of a positive than a Clinton Presidency, since they would effectively govern similarly in bottom line effect.  The difference is that Trump brings to light systemic problems, while Clinton uses them as an excuse for her crappiness.

      Any how, I am sure you will do what you think is best, and can only wish you well.

    • Rocker (551 posts)
      Profile photo of Rocker

      67. I understand giving everyone, even propagandists, free speech

      But I agree with the lead attorney, Jared Beck, in the fraud case against the DNC when he said, “There can be no reconciliation between the victim and the defendant – the perpetrator of frauds – until there has been justice,”.

      I view all the D loyalists as frauds although, I do realize that some are just brainwashed beyond rational thought.  Propaganda works, it’s been perfected over the last 100 years and unless people take an active role in recognizing it, they can easily be duped by it.

      • tripleQ (617 posts)
        Profile photo of tripleQ

        84. Everyone with a different opinion is either

        A propagandist

        or brainwashed and irrational.

        Did  I understand you correctly?

        • Dragonfli (1333 posts)
          Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

          102. No. you misunderstood. It would be better to learn to read than to read into

          You appear overly concerned about certain things, more than that, you appear to wish others not to be concerned about that which they truly are.

          I believe we have met somewhere before, I always use the same name and have so for as long as there have been discussion boards, so you know who I am.

          I may very well be mistaken but I believe I have narrowed you down to one of three former acquaintances, an oddly appropriate number considering your most recent “reincarnation”, although an honest person would go by but one name.

          I will have to read more, as I know how to, so as to learn more about your “concerns”. You may continue with your concerns and the joy of anonymity whilst placing words in the mouths of others, it is that style that will reveal your true nature if not your true name. Mine is public and my views consistent over decades, would that you had the same honor simply so you could know how liberating that can feel.

          It is far more enjoyable to be oneself unapologetically than to try to keep up the charades and masks that require constantly remembering which carefully chosen words one has used behind a facade chosen for a masquerade.

          You would find it liberating and I hope someday you do so. I hope someday you release yourself from that burden and feel the freedom of being yourself and saying that which lies within your heart, for even if I disagreed, I would respect and be happy for you.

          Truly.

          “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

            

          • hopemountain (2287 posts)
            Profile photo of hopemountain Donor

            133. thank you, dragonfli ~

            your post is affirmation of my thoughts.

            "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth .... "question everything – including, organizations touting labels proclaiming stewardship of living things and high ideals when in truth, they fanatically practice the stewardship of exploitation, greed, and destruction."
            • glinda (2168 posts)
              Profile photo of glinda Donor

              143. +1

              Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
    • Hydra (375 posts)
      Profile photo of Hydra

      68. I had to ask the question the other day that you asked

      Remove Trump, replace with what? Pence? Ryan? Hillary? Another Bush?

      We are still in the midst of a massive power vacuum. The Right(Dems) and the Extreme Right have locked all the normal people out of the process and are simply fighting among themselves over the biggest piece of the cake.

      How many people would we have to impeach to get someone halfway decent?

      • spud demon (1040 posts)
        Profile photo of spud demon Donor

        71. Impeachment (for me) is not about improving the situation directly

        It’s about holding an individual accountable for his actions.  I would love to tell Trump “YOU’RE FIRED!  Not because I disagree with your policies (I do) but because you didn’t implement them in an honest and statesmanlike way.”

        After that, the other wolves would be more careful.  Maybe.

        • Bush got away with lying about WMD.
        • Reagan got away with Iran/Contra.
        • The last President we actually held accountable was Nixon, 43 years ago!
        Cubs, Google+, Weird Al, BMW
    • Betty Karlson (3976 posts)
      Profile photo of Betty Karlson Donor

      72. Please stay. We will defeat him AND her. Bernie 2020.

      "Someone hacks the DNC allowing all of America to see how the DNC operates as one of the most corrupt political machines in national history. Ergo, Hillary Clinton should be installed as President by judicial fiat. And if you do not agree to this scheme you deserve to be brought up on charges of treason because fascism." - NUGrrl, december 2016 “Once a person has been determined to be an UNTRUSTWORTHY LIAR, their pretend stances on important issues are simply not relevant to rational discussion.” – Ida Briggs, September 2016
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      • glinda (2168 posts)
        Profile photo of glinda Donor

        145. 16 posts and you have this strong admonishment of this site, people and Bernie?

        I truly understand where you are coming from in most of your comment but indeed you could direct your energies at constructive OPs to start discussions rather than trash the site.

        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
    • so far from heaven (13131 posts)
      Profile photo of So Far From Heaven Donor

      74. I don't understand the problem.

      My assumption is that JPR is a progressive site for progressive people. Not a draft for third party politics.

      Progressive people should and do ridicule the current Pres.

      Progressive people should consider and some extol creating a third party.

      Progressive people should and do listen to progressive leaders such as Bernie.

      The site should reflect all of that.

      And as far as I can tell, it does.

      "When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx.
      • glinda (2168 posts)
        Profile photo of glinda Donor

        146. It does. There are "doubts" being placed. On purpose or by ignorance by some.

        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
    • BlueAK (1690 posts)
      Profile photo of BlueAK Donor

      I’m looking at thread titles here in General Discussion, and I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.

      “Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.”

      https://northernvisions.smugmug.com/
    • Dragonfli (1333 posts)
      Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

      77. I respect you a great deal, but fear you are putting the cart before the horse

      @silverwitch

      It is essential that we do not fall into the obvious trap that the fake dems have laid for years. They would most assuredly attempt to unite us all against what they claim to be “a greater evil” by lining up behind what they would have us believe is “a lesser evil” that in fact has done more wearing a D to dismantle progressive gains via Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, than either Bush or Reagan were able to accomplish when they tried the same shit.

      I can easily understand your frustration reading propaganda here, but I believe that in order to have the discussions we need to build a new progressive paradigm removed from the corporate dems that drink merrily behind closed doors with the same donors and who share the same goals as their EQUALLY evil counterparts among the Republicans, it must remain an open forum where all may speak their mind, even the snakes in the woodshed that I agree have settled here.

      In the end it is the totality of our community that will and does shape the conversation and direction here, without your voice and mine, we concede ground without the intellectual and factual fights that must be voiced to achieve the goals of a true progressive revolution, and quite frankly, until I am less ill, I need you to kick OP ass here!

      Do not demure from a fight that can easily be won with truth, you are a badass and they have more to fear with you here and much relief and victory to celebrate if you were to walk away from them for they are cowards whom you could easily best with one typing hand tied behind your back!

      I am in and out of hospital and I need you here more than ever, don’t let a few snakes in the woodshed keep you from building a fire to ignite our revolution, they are weak, slimy creatures that posture yet hold no venom that can harm one such as yourself.

      Just my opinion, you will do as you think best, yet out of respect I offer that opinion.

      “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

        

      • OCMI (1478 posts)
        Profile photo of OCMI Donor

        80. ^^ This ^^

        Thank you, Dragonfli!

        If you dislike Trump, you should vote for him so we can change his party from within. Yes, Hillary supporters, this is how ridiculous you sound.
      • tripleQ (617 posts)
        Profile photo of tripleQ

        87. What is the propaganda here, that you refer to?

        “Propangamda” typically means an orchestrated and planned attempt by an organization to influence attitudes, usually for the good of some leader or group.

        We are individuals here with a rainbow spectrum of opinions.  Yours is the third or fourth post I have read in five minutes that refers to “propaganda” peddled on this site.  Your implication is that some people here are agents of an organization and are not just voicing their personal opinions.

        No one has provided any evidence of “propaganda” but people keep citing it the way Mc Carthy cited Commies under our beds.  It is becoming silly:  Please give evidence of the propaganda you refer to.

        Thank you.

        • Dragonfli (1333 posts)
          Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

          89. It is like pornography, you know it when you see it

          I never much cared about pornography and so never bother to look for it, I can see therefore why you are having trouble seeing what it is you would have me point out to you.

          Best of luck in your search, but if it does not bother you, you will never see it, just as I do not see pornography because I simply am not bothered by it.

          “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

            

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        • BillZBubb (2805 posts)
          Profile photo of BillZBubb Donor

          100. Jeezus Fringin' Christ are you living in a cave???

          RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!! HACKING!!! OUR DEMOCRACY WAS ATTACKED! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

          You don’t believe that is propaganda?

          DemExit! Don't give the Democrats a dime. Don't identify as a Democrat. Drop Democratic identification below 20%. Only then will they support true progressive policy. Until then, corporate money rules.
          • incognito (1933 posts)
            Profile photo of incognito Donor

            105. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

            Some just refuse to see it.

            Or, they do see it and don’t care or they just accept it and feign ignorance.

            DEMEXITED BECAUSE THEY'RE CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

      • ChiciB1 (659 posts)
        Profile photo of ChiciB1 Donor

        96. GREAT REPLY! Unfortunately We're Faced With Some Extreme Events That…

        I doubt we can ignore.  THE IDIOTIC, NARCISSISTIC behavior of this person who occupies the WH is something that’s threatening and undermining our future as a country.  It’s nothing less than a CIRCUS that is reverberating around the world!

        Every person in this country will feel the fall out whether we here at JPR say anything about it.  It’s news that being thrown at us like spaghetti against a wall and it’s going to stick on all of us.  To ignore the chaos seems impossible and I’ve NEVER seen anything like this in my entire life as a political activist.

        It’s hard to tell anyone what to do and I would prefer to have members stay here with us, but if one doesn’t feel JPR is where they don’t want to be I think perhaps it will have an affect on what they feel they can contribute.  It’s sad to hear this news because I myself still feel comfortable here even if I’m not posting as aggressively as many others.  I certainly appreciate the input and great information I receive from the posting here.  None of us has to agree with everything, but I’m not sure any place is perfect enough to escape confrontation.

        JMHO

         

    • Lord Thomas (1892 posts)
      Profile photo of Lord Thomas

      78. I wish you wouldn't go my Friend.

      May the Goddess guide your heart. 

      The Only Consistent Thing in Life is Change.

    • leveymg (3459 posts)
      Profile photo of leveymg

      92. Please stay! We need people like you who still see through the DNC/3rd Way BS.

      We’re fighting off mass wave attacks of propaganda, but can’t do it without JPR members who still have a brain.    Please stay!

    • Ohio Barbarian (5164 posts)
      Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

      93. May you have fair skies, calm seas, and the wind at your back.

      I’m both a pagan and a former sailor. I shall miss you if you go. I must say, however, that I see nothing to fear in lots of posts attacking Trump. It’s a perfectly human reaction to this culmination of horrible mistakes and inimical public policies that have been perpetrated by both the corporatist major parties. Hell, I’m 58 and never witnessed any Presidency like this one. It does have a certain morbid fascination, like watching a train wreck. I’ve felt it myself, and, no doubt like you I am sick of it.

      In fact, I recently wrote a post describing how all of the attention lavished on The Apprentice: White House Edition allows corporations to go full speed ahead and really fuck their employees over without even getting much bad press, and stressing how important it is for all of us to pay attention to our entire environment. It was so unpopular :sarcasm:  it was put on the Daily Radical.

      I don’t think the posters here are gravitating to supporting the corporate Democrats just because they are disgusted by and pissed off at the Child-in-Chief and his craven minions.

      Trump will eventually exit stage right(pun intended), but the Third Way will still be there, the Republicans will still be there, and progressives of all stripes will still be here on JPR. I, for one, will remain.

      Just saying we are free to talk about any political issue we wish here, and usually you will get some responses. I hope you reconsider.

      Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
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        • Ohio Barbarian (5164 posts)
          Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

          103. I don't know what PG is(parental guidance? not), and I don't blame the admins

          severely limiting talk about The Site Which Must Not Be Named. I’ve seen unlimited talk about that particular site ruin a couple of other ones, because everybody else gets sick of the constant complaining and leaves. It became like The Donald Show on those sites because it dominated discussion and was just soooooo boring after awhile.

          SV is just a website, just a discussion forum. I was banned from there in 2009 and, sure, it pissed me off at first, but I didn’t dwell on it. What’s the point? I do have a life, after all. It’s like sports fans who only want to talk about their team and to gossip about trade or draft pick rumors. Or gamblers who want to talk about how the slots are programmed at various casinos. If one doesn’t care about those things that much, one gets bored real quick.

          On a discussion board like this, some censorship, as you call it, is necessary in order for it to survive. I find the admins and mods here very tolerant and open-minded. They’re certainly not pushing one narrow agenda. At all.

          Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
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            • Ohio Barbarian (5164 posts)
              Profile photo of Ohio Barbarian Donor

              159. Oh. Vast conspiracy. Right. And what's a liberal Democrat, anyway? There are

              people who call both Hillary Clinton and Ralph Nader “liberal.” Most Americans, in fact, have been suckered by Fox News and most of the M$M into calling anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan “liberal.” The term has been so smeared it’s virtually meaningless, and the Clintonistas are hard at work trying to co-opt the term “progressive” as well. Progressive Policy Institute or whatever it is my ass.

              I am skeptical of vast secret conspiracies, and I honestly don’t know what you mean by “liberal Democrat.” Besides, any conspiracy on SV was right out there in the open years ago, so it was certainly no secret no matter what its admins declared, and I’m a Green socialist and no Democrat at all. As for PG, that was such a heinous set of libelous lies that it was borderline criminal to repeat them. I would have banned that shit, too.

              Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • Green Dog Dem (3276 posts)
          Profile photo of Green Dog Dem

          142. Banned for mentioning reich-wing conspiracy claptrap?

          You don’t say. 

          Aloha! KamaAina in the hale (house).
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            • Marym625 (26294 posts)
              Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

              160. LOL!

              Besides what complete and total bullshit, we don’t allow socks. Bye

              "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • Marym625 (26294 posts)
      Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

      97. I'm trying to make change

      I’m working hard at it. I don’t even look at much of the trump stuff unless it’s Bernie.

      People make choices on what they read and write. You could have chosen to post about some activism, a candidate in your area you believe is a progressive, Net Neutrality, the Draft Bernie call last night or their petition, oh so very many things.

      I hope you change your mind. I’m going to keep fighting the good fight. ;)

      "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • Dragonfli (1333 posts)
        Profile photo of Dragonfli Donor

        111. I can only speak for myself but I've always known you to be a woman of your word

        Beyond that your posts and opinions speak for themselves, as long as I know you hold the reigns, I will not abandon our original mission. A mission I believe you yourself have never abandoned.

        There are some here that do not follow that mission, but I also understand why they are allowed speech. I think they only make themselves obvious and should receive pushback. I understand Silver Witch’s frustration, but I hope she will be among those that stay here to provide some of that push back.

        Not that you asked, but I felt like sharing my faith in you.

        “We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent from a nation that has buried its head in the sand, waiting in vain for the needs of its poor, its elderly, and its sick to disappear and just blow away. We must dissent from a government that has left its young without jobs, education or hope. We must dissent from the poverty of vision and the absence of moral leadership. We must dissent because America can do better, because America has no choice but to do better.” Thurgood Marshall

          

        • Marym625 (26294 posts)
          Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

          114. Hi Dragonfli!

          Hope you’re feeling better!

          Thank you.

          This shit is news. Whether it be manufactured, real or just absolute complete bullshit, the “leaders” of this country are talking about it, meeting about it, appointing special prosecutors for it, etc. Never going to tell someone they can’t post about it.

          No one has to click on those. No one is stopping anyone else from posting almost anything else.

          We’ve got real work to do. The bitching about it has become as big as the posts about it.

          As my grandmother used to say, “The more there will be said about it, the more there will be said about it.”

          I’ve got planning to do for the People’s Summit and JackpineRadicals part in moving this country away from the plutocracy it has become.

          Thank you! :hug:

          "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • HIP56948 (2969 posts)
      Profile photo of HIP56948 Donor

      98. I wish you would reconsider. Always loved your posts.

    • TRex (3041 posts)
      Profile photo of TRex Donor

      104. I don't see it. I see a lot of different topics but not Trump exclusively.

      I think things are just getting to you like we talked about the other day. Go take some time off from all this political garbage, because at the end of the day it is YOU that matters.

      Be here when you get back!

       

      “The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.” - Obama
    • Scott Crowder (612 posts)
      Profile photo of Scott Crowder

      106. United for a political revolution

      is what the header says.  not united to bitch about Trump.  Not united with the Dems to push their “Russia did it” narrative.

      This should be JPR’s wake up call.   We should be pushing for free and fair elections, not the shit sandwich we get every year.  We should be outraged about what Monsanto is doing.  Net Neutrality.  Climate change.

      Not being reactionary to whatever diversion the oligarchy throws at us next.  It’s always one Kabuki theater after another.

      Think of all the “moderates” who, throughout history, have failed to oppose state-sanctioned aggression, oppression, and abuse, from slavery to child labor, while maligning those who call for change as dangerous and misguided, violent radicals. And yet, in retrospect, when a renewed social contract is established as the new normal, the unlawful actions that brought about these societal shifts are turned into mythical tales of nationalistic heroism and dates for kids to memorize at school.
      https://limitedhangoutblog.com/2017/02/08/lets-talk-about-violence/
      • tripleQ (617 posts)
        Profile photo of tripleQ

        124. I am burned out on being outraged.

        I love Trump and his gaffes and scandals because it’s entertaining, pure and simple.  It’s like watching your rude boss slip on a banana peel every day.  It’s the best thing ever.

        I know that laughing at Trump doesn’t change the world or feed the poor – but geez, it’s fun.  And I deserve fun.  We all do.  .

         

        • Scott Crowder (612 posts)
          Profile photo of Scott Crowder

          128. Posting all the time about it is a bit more than having fun.

          Seahawks games are fun.  Enjoying the Earth before it changes forever is fun.  My girlfriend is fun.

          The purpose of this place should be about the important things we have to fight to change and we need to stop letting the corporate media distract us from what’s really going on.  A movement, a revolution, needs to stay on message, stay focused.

          The Resistance is just the oligarchy having the Democratic Party bitch about the oligarchy’s other party, the Republicans.

          The Revolution is about single payer healthcare for all.  Elections that are free and fair.  What to do about climate change.  Ending the educational nightmare the 1% are putting us through.

          Think of all the “moderates” who, throughout history, have failed to oppose state-sanctioned aggression, oppression, and abuse, from slavery to child labor, while maligning those who call for change as dangerous and misguided, violent radicals. And yet, in retrospect, when a renewed social contract is established as the new normal, the unlawful actions that brought about these societal shifts are turned into mythical tales of nationalistic heroism and dates for kids to memorize at school.
          https://limitedhangoutblog.com/2017/02/08/lets-talk-about-violence/
          • tripleQ (617 posts)
            Profile photo of tripleQ

            131. Okay, point taken.

            but on this particular site, no moderator censors posts about Trump.  And lots of people, me included, like to Trump-watch.  So thw trumpy posts are probably always going to exist here.

            What you can do, is start threads about all those things that are important to you.    People who care about the same things will respond, won’t they?  Then you’ll have the discussions you want.

            • Scott Crowder (612 posts)
              Profile photo of Scott Crowder

              148. Of course

              But Silver Witch is expressing my own feeling when I come here.  enough with the Resistance, let’s get back to the Revolution.

              Think of all the “moderates” who, throughout history, have failed to oppose state-sanctioned aggression, oppression, and abuse, from slavery to child labor, while maligning those who call for change as dangerous and misguided, violent radicals. And yet, in retrospect, when a renewed social contract is established as the new normal, the unlawful actions that brought about these societal shifts are turned into mythical tales of nationalistic heroism and dates for kids to memorize at school.
              https://limitedhangoutblog.com/2017/02/08/lets-talk-about-violence/
              • tripleQ (617 posts)
                Profile photo of tripleQ

                152. I admit I used to feel the same –

                Especially in my early days here, last fall when I used to lurk during the GE.   I was surprised that though this site was supposed to be for people who wanted to fan the Bernie flames, it was dominated by tabloid-level speculation on whether Clinton had seizures and how evil all Clinton supporters were..  Lots of Clinton stuff, not much Revolution at all.

                Now I don’t expect a revolution anymore – at least not here or on any other discussion site.  I think maybe the revolution happens (if it happens at all) in my own backyard, when I volunteer at the clinic or grow a butterfly garden or raise my kids with certain values.  I know that’s not dramatic or fast but it’s kinda what I am settling on.

                I had the idea once of a forum for people who want to challenge themselves to do  concrete good in the world:  Like, members would post their little successes (“drove my handicapped neighbor to doctor’s appointment”,, “talked to my teen son about treating girls like people and standing up against harassment”, “rang doorbells in support of a good candidate”) as a way to be together in the fight and do more than just complain!

                Maybe that’s dumb, though :).

    • Fire with Fire (884 posts)
      Profile photo of Fire with Fire Donor

      107. I'm coming late to this discussion

      but I have two thoughts I want to add.

       

      First, there is a big difference between attacking Trump and posting material predicting that he will be impeached.  It is the preposterous and utterly baseless speculation about the mechanics of kicking this asshole out of office that I find more than annoying.  I  am ready to believe that a few of the regulars here like to post lots of “news” stories without necessarily vouching for their spin.  But I find it impossible to believe in the non-troll status of the folks who hyperventilate at things like some GOP back bencher saying that if Trump is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors we should consider impeaching and convicting him.

      My personal take is that the Republican caucus in the House of Representatives either will or won’t impeach Trump based on their collective judgment of what their donors want.  I do not believe for a second that any other consideration will enter their heads.

      So, I get frustrated along with Silver Witch about all those dumb threads.  Of course they aren’t the only threads up, and in any given case who knows why the JPLer put it up.  But it makes me queasy when I see any of them.

       

      Second, I do not agree that either heavier moderation or leaving the site are good responses to this problem.  We may be only a few hundred people posting regularly, but we are a part of the national debate about our future.  In order to organize we need to have places to communicate with each other.  There is no way to keep trolls from sneaking in and there is no way to be certain that any particular punter is really a troll.

      So we need another means of keeping crap in perspective.  The discussion on this thread provides a number of good ideas.

       

      I really like this board, even as some of the shit I see is in my opinion crap.  Welcome to Planet Earth, Fire With Fire.  There’s lots of crap everywhere and you really can’t run from it.

    • BillZBubb (2805 posts)
      Profile photo of BillZBubb Donor

      108. I agree with much of your post.

      It seems like Third Way strategy and talking points are now very common here. I don’t believe the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so I find Third Way crap to be offensive.

      That said, I’ll stay here and oppose it, even though it does take away from what should be our main focus: A True Progressive party.

      Your contribution here will be missed.

       

      DemExit! Don't give the Democrats a dime. Don't identify as a Democrat. Drop Democratic identification below 20%. Only then will they support true progressive policy. Until then, corporate money rules.
    • Pacco Fransisco (4076 posts)
      Profile photo of Pacco Fransisco Moderator

      110. Just because there are dynamic posts does not mean JPR has changed its goal…

      to promote real progressives. You could have stayed here and contributed to that effort but instead you choose to superficially elevate yourself above everyone here over a few posts as if they were all that is going on here …which IMO is silly. Let me know when you find that perfect static group of progressives …and I doubt you will find one.

      I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
    • kidfrumcleveland (103 posts)
      Profile photo of kidfrumcleveland Banned

      120. So I guess this isn't obstruction of justice then????

      Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump bragged to two top Russian officials last week that firing “nut job” FBI Director James Comey eased “great pressure” on him, The New York Times reported Friday.
      “I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Trump said, according to the Times. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”……….

      • BlueAK (1690 posts)
        Profile photo of BlueAK Donor

        Personally, I think it is.

        https://northernvisions.smugmug.com/
        • Alloy89 (525 posts)
          Profile photo of Alloy89

          179. It clearly is obstruction.

          CTRL-ALT-RIGHT-DEL
      • MannyGoldstein (2286 posts)
        Profile photo of Manny Goldstein Admin

        154. Why would anyone think that's obstruction of justice?

        Just locker-room boy’s talk, like talking about grabbing woman by their pussy. Honestly, who among us hasn’t braggef of stopping a federal investigation.. of us?

        "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
    • eridani (2495 posts)
      Profile photo of eridani Donor

      151. Problem with third parties is that they don't give a shit about voter contact

      With unusual exceptions such as Seattle’s Socialist Alternative.  With the aid of 500+ volunteers, they got Kshama Sawant  elected twice to Seattle City Council.  However, Burien (small city to the SW) had been dealing with nasty anti-homeless initiatives from their city council.  Some SA folks were in on the protests against that, but they had no one to run against those members supporting those initiatives.  Dems are the only party that does voter contact over wide geographic areas.

      You've heard of the Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West, right?  I'm the Morally Ambiguous Witch of the Northwest.
    • Depaysement (712 posts)
      Profile photo of Depaysement Donor

      156. Spot on

      One of the reasons I’m here less and less.

      "White youth, black youth Better find another solution Why not phone up Robin Hood And ask him for some wealth distribution" White Man in Hammersmith Palais (1978)
    • ThomPaine (4465 posts)
      Profile photo of ThomPaine Moderator

      185. I think it takes some audacity to think that going over and over this will

      actually make people change.  If you want to see better posts on JPR, then you start.

      aka rhett o rick.     The rich treat us like ants. They may avoid stepping on us, but if our home is in the way of their new swimming pool, we can kiss our ants goodbye.
    • CNW (2492 posts)
      Profile photo of CNW Donor

      186. Now you see –

      why many open-minded people have left this site for others . . . .

    • durruti (11 posts)
      Profile photo of durruti

      187. #Let'sTalkRevolution LOVE IT!! hope u stay ~nt~