If Seatbelt Laws Were Introduced in 2021

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    • #444734
      • Total Posts: 5,196

      And probably somebody would be saying it’s safer just to wear a horse saddle…..

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #444742
      NV Wino
      • Total Posts: 7,983

      I don’t need to buckle up again. 😵

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #444744
      • Total Posts: 8,883


      Not funny. Not an apt comparison.


      • #444868
        Ohio Barbarian
        • Total Posts: 21,764


        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #444749
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 3,230

      Masks can have any number of meanings, it’s really about who is wearing them.

      It is interesting how people from many different cultural and educational backgrounds – and various political ideologies… All kind of hate the idea.  Or the practice, or something.

      I remember someone on Facebook saying, “I’m a black man in an urban area… And you want me to go into a bank with a mask on?”  I think everyone rather quickly saw his point.

      For me, it comes down to social obligations.  I do still believe I have some… So I wear one.  I’ve gotten the vaccine and all – but I’m willing to wear a mask to reduce the risk of spreading the virus further.

      Also, the whole seat belt thing DID get plenty of exactly those kinds of responses.  In my neck of the woods, people were very annoyed by it.  So what did lots of car manufacturers do?  They made a damn sensor beep at you constantly until you put on the belt.

      It is not quite the same, of course, but there are similarities.

    • #444769
      • Total Posts: 8,883


      I thought they were trying to compare seatbelts to the vaccine.

      What side effects does the seat belt have?

      • #444780
        retired liberal
        • Total Posts: 4,276


        We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
        If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
        The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
        Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #444782
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 3,230


      I thought it was about masks.  I could be wrong.  I didn’t think of vaccines though.  I was mostly just thinking of the time when they did the seat belt laws and how much people complained about it.  That – and what a pain in the ass it can be to strap in car seats for kids… They need to make those things more user friendly…

      As for the vaccine, I don’t really know.  I was a good little boy and took mine like I was told.  No clue what was in it, or how well it works, but I didn’t notice any side effects from the J & J beyond a sore arm.

      And yeah!  @retiredliberal those damn things DO wrinkle your clothes!

    • #444795
      • Total Posts: 7,252

      There are people who absolutely refuse to wear seat belts. Even though the odds are heavily in favor of seat belts helping you, particularly in combination with air bags, there is a chance they will injure you in a crash, and some people concentrate on that. The same thing could apply to either the vaccines or masks. Neither one works perfectly and there is a chance they will hurt you. It is true that the potential benefits outweigh the potential harm, but it’s useless to keep quoting the odds. The best we can do is to appeal to everyone to do what they are willing and able to do. If they won’t get vaccinated, maybe they’ll wear a mask. If they won’t wear a mask, maybe they’ll limit social contact. If they won’t do any of those things, perhaps we can give them Ivermectin. Chances are we can eventually get everyone to do something. It should not be necessary to enforce vax and mask mandates the way we enforce seat belt laws because wearing seatbelts for the next year or two will not eliminate the danger of a car crash, while a multi-faceted effort to stamp out Covid could be successful.

      • #444846
        • Total Posts: 2,503

        “The plural of anecdote isn’t data.”

        I remember hearing stories about people who supposedly survived a crash because they weren’t wearing seat belts or of someone’s grandma who smoked two packs a day and yet lived to 103.

        The problem is that exceptions often loom larger than rules and get disproportionate attention as a result.


    • #444841
      • Total Posts: 326

      ‘Everyone in this country is wearing a mask, don’t kid yourselves…’

      "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Asimov; "If you push something hard enough, it will fall over." - Fud's First Law of Opposition

    • #444859
      • Total Posts: 1,306

      Well…wearing a seatbelt and injecting a substance in your body are not an equal comparison.

      Wearing a seat belt also doesn’t cause side effects and doesn’t make car companies insanely rich.

      In my opinion the best argument against vaccines is the immunity to civil lawsuits. If the vaccine is fully safe, and fully effective, why do the drug companies and the government need to be shielded from lawsuits? That’s a VERY VERY legitimate question no one is giving an answer to.  These vaccines created 12 new billionaires and the drug companies need protection from lawsuits?

    • #444876
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 3,230

      Can’t sue the big pharma billionaires without a lot of money and awesome legal council anyway.  Even in huge cases, like class action law suits, it is rarely the bosses that take the fall.

      Let’s be honest for a sec though.  The vaccine can have some very unpleasant side effects, yes, but the data indicates that they are very rarely severe.  It happens, but is considerably more rare than death by covid19.  An order of magnitude and whatnot.

      So, given the choice between even really shitty side effects and maybe dying in an ER or ICU?  Can’t breathe?  All kinds of weird shit in my body breaking down?

      To me, the only option that makes any damn sense is getting the jab.  I could be wrong, long term studies could tell us any number of things – but I would rather live now and suffer later, given the option.

      The reason for the vaccines is obvious, as far as health concerns go.  They dramatically reduce the likelihood of severe covid19 symptoms, hospitalization or death.  That is verifiably true at this point.

      So, yeah, if it is a choice between people doing whatever they want regardless of the circumstances… Infecting us, our families, neighbors and so on because they refuse to be stabbed with a needle… Or vaccine mandates…

      Well, then I support the mandates.  It isn’t a perfect solution – and for fucks sake we need much, much better social welfare programs while this shit is happening – and yes, the corporations, the for profit medicine, the politicians and media are all fucked up, greedy,  corrupt…

      But one thing at a time.  It is the poor, the elderly, the sick… And now the young, who this damn thing is killing.  Let’s deal with that shit however we have to.

      Freedom comes with obligation – if we ever want real freedom or a real democracy, Americans need to understand what that means.

      • #444950
        • Total Posts: 1,306

        But if someone already had COVID, and they had a very mild infection or asymptomatic infection, that person isn’t going to see much benefit in the vaccine, especially if they are told it only lasts 6-8 months and doesn’t stop the spread.

        If this was a traditional vaccine like Polio and MMR and such, and it provided higher immunity, and it stopped people from spreading it…. I think you would see MUCH MUCH less resistance. The problem with these vaccines is we are being told by our leaders that they are “highly effective” but then we look at the science and see that they don’t stop you from infection/spread and they wear off very quickly. So it gives the appearance that we aren’t being presented the entire truth.

        This could also have bad long term consequences. If our leaders tell us to get 100% vaccinated, and we do, and the virus still spreads or we see more variants pop up and need more lockdowns and mandates, that is going to significantly erode public trust in not only the leaders, but the science of vaccination as a whole….even for other diseases. Governments right now are throwing all their weight behind these current vaccines which honestly aren’t really that fantastic. If you force 80 million people to vaccinate, who don’t want it, and COVID still spreads like crazy afterwards…. We’re fucked. We will never get anyone to vaccinate for anything ever again. So when we get to full vaccination rates….those case numbers better drop like a rock.

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