If you vote for Joe Biden to "return this country to normal", you are a FUCKING MORON.

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    • #281705
      Satan
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      • Total Posts: 3,238

      This is the excuse a Devil hears most often for a Biden voter. Oh, they just want America to return to “normal”. Whatever that means.

      And whatever it means, there was nothing “NORMAL” about the USA before November 2016. I would argue that nothing has been normal in this country since November 1980. And most definitely not since December 12, 2000. You know… the first time an unelected asshole was allowed to occupy the White House, thanks to the unconstitutional decree of 5 black robed idiots who his daddy’s crime family put on the Supreme Court.

      Furthermore, the whole idea that a “centrist” DLC President will restore normality after a right wing regime is proven ridiculous on its face. Bill Clinton didn’t even attempt to return to the “normal” that existed before Reagan & Poppy Bush. He actually made things much WORSE. Worse by passing NAFTA. Worse by “reforming” Welfare. Worse by repealing Glass Steagal & allowing Wall Street banks to become legalized gambling operations. And worst of all by passing the FAUX/Scumcast/Sinclair/Clear Channel/Verizon Enabling Act of 1996 which single handedly killed any sort of objective “mainstream” media in the USA.

      Barack Obama didn’t return to the even half-normal that existed before the Chimp’s illegal 8 year occupation of the White House. He didn’t end the PNAC wars. And why would he, with a VP who signed some of the documents, or a Secretary of State who openly spread their propaganda. His “solution” for healthcare turned out to be not the half-assed half-measure that won him the 2008 primary, but instead the pathetically weak Corporate Insurance Mandate that Nixon & the Heritage Foundation came up with in 1972. The same one that Willard Mittens Romney enacted in Massachusetts and that Hillary campaigned on in 2008 (which is the main reason she LOST the primary)

      And let’s remember…. Bill and Barry at least had brains that functioned properly. Dementia Joe Biden is 666 levels below that in the danger he represents to the USA because he does not have the mental capacity required to do the job. Let alone restore the country to normal. And as I said, you have to go back at LEAST to pre-December 2000 to even pretend to find normal.  Because each time the so-called “Democrats” fail, the Republican that comes after them keeps getting infinitely WORSE. Reagan was worse than Nixon. Poppy was Reagan without the “goofy old grandpa” veneer. Chimpy was way worse than his old man. And the Orange Asshole, well we all know what he is….

      Assuming the USA would even survive Dementia Joe, do you REALLY want to see what WORSE THAN CHEETO looks like? I know I don’t. I only have so much room down here in Hell, and the sort of numbers you’re looking at from unchecked pandemics and the potential of World War III caused by incompetence… well, it would probably push my capacity.

      Bernie Sanders, despite being a Jewish Socialist ex-carpenter, is not the second coming of my old friend JC. He can’t immediately resurrect the real USA upon his first day in office. Maybe not even in one 4 year term. But he goddamned well will do all he can to at least get things pointed in that direction and hand it off to somebody who can carry on in the same way, when he leaves office. It’s the best, last, and ONLY shot we have at anything resembling NORMAL.

      So don’t fuck it up.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #281715
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,609

      I think things may already be well and truly fucked.  I still cannot understand how people who otherwise seem to be of sound mind can vote for Biden.  How can such a vote possibly be reconciled with the ideals so many of them claim to believe in?

      They would have us believe that we cant have healthcare or education for everyone.  That “progress” means tiny, incremental change under Democrats right before Republicans drag us so far in the other direction that it is mind boggling.

      You are right – they are getting worse – and so are the Democrats.  Biden would be even worse than Clinton and Obama… assuming he could defeat Trump – and I dont believe he can.

      It is not just that the Biden supporters are wrong – it is that they are actually accomplishing the opposite of their stated goals.  It seems to be all about pragmatism, not rocking the boat.  Not making things better – but maybe letting them get worse slowly instead of Trumps full speed ahead.

      It is possible, too, that Biden could be even worse than Trump.  If the people holding his leash want war with Russia?  Or China?  If they do not realize that we are set for a head on collision with the apocalypse… if they do not change direction (and there is no indication that team Biden will).. then they might actually fuck us all worse – and even sooner than we expected.

      I havent really prayed in a long while.  I’m not really sure what I believe about Gods and devils, but these days… I am tempted into many “for whom it may concern” prayers.

       

    • #281723
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,820

      Recommended for the Daily Radical. @deadpool We haven’t had any new ones for awhile!

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #281725
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,679

      We re seeing evidence of it when people, responding to the corporatized media and negative advertisement, decide (out of fear, the thing that needs to die, but it still in the DECAYING cycle of life) pushes them to conform and think Biden is “safe”. It’s moronic if you have been paying good attention, just like a mass of confused voters seem to want to do, but cannot do.

      When faced with odds like this, we have to stand for WHAT is true, and it’s not true that Biden or any other corporate tool is a safe bet to take.  The United States has been led to believe there is a normal to which we must return. It’s not to be found………………… YET.

       

       

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #281726
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,142
    • #281730
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,609

      @bazukhov

      Bless your dear heart, do as you please.  If you want to vote for a demented warmonger, do so, that is your right after all.

      I’ll take useless prayers over fucking shit up more.

      • #281744
        bazukhov
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,708

        OK.   Stick to your principles!    Trump will pat you on the back and give you a free hat and a plastic American flag to wave.

        I voted for Bernie earlier this week.  I’m sure he’ll win my state handily.   I’m also sure Bernie will act the “moron” and back Biden if he gets the nomination.

         

         

        Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

        • #281747
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 14,820

          @bazukhov With all due respect, fuck your incremental change. My wife has dental work we can’t afford. My stepkids will never be able to go to college unless the system is fundamentally changed, and may never be able to afford health care. They make too much for Medicaid, and can’t afford private sector premiums.

          Not to mention that climate change is coming to wreak havoc.

          We no longer have time for that neoliberal, incremental shit. Besides, if Biden did win, we’d get a worse Republican than Trump on the flip side. Who is the true lesser evil here? I can make a good argument it’s Trump, not Biden.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

          • #282002
            PolecatHollerer
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,118

            .

            If you give a man enough rope, it will be six inches too short. This is not the nature of rope- it is the nature of man.

          • #282321
            Earthartist
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 774

            So right Ohio, The people need to forget the D label it just means evil just like the R label.  They are truly the cause of the catastrophe that is rolling our way. Starting with this virus then heading towards world war 3 then environmental catastrophe  all brought to you by the Powers that Be, they come in 3 flavors R D and O(oligarchs)

            Earthartist

        • #282032
          Maedhros
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 668

          It’s not the principled progressives who vote their conscience that help Trump win.

          It’s the Democrats – who have no principles whatsoever – that keep foisting horrible candidates on the rest of us.

          His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
          but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
          and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
          more deadly than his right had been.

    • #281750
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,919

      rest in prison (real or psychic)

      rest in quiet despair

       

    • #281765
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,609

      Not sticking to principles is why Democrats keep on losing – those Democrats that still have principles, at least.

      I see no good reason to vote for Biden – at all -.  Social security?  No.  Healthcare?  No.  Foreign policy?  No.  Climate change?  No.  Does Biden actually have any principles?  I don’t think he has any more than Trump.

      You seem to have missed the point of the OP.  Even if Biden wins – and that is a big if, the Republican President that follows will be even worse.  Not that I am convinced Biden would be better.

      Your vote is your own – but as for me, I am done voting for corruption.

    • #281771
      Deadpool
      Keymaster
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    • #281822
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,449

      Wars are possible under Democrats that wouldn’t be under Republicans.

      Had a President Romney destroyed Libya and armed terrorists to destroy Syria we’d have been told to get off our asses and hit the streets.

      I pity the millions of at risk people in Syria if Biden becomes President, and all of us when Russian war planes test Biden’s resolve for the ongoing threat of a shooting war that would put the economy and the stock market in the toilet.

    • #281954
      carrotguy
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      • #282038
        whispers
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 414

        You think the OP was mean spirited?  I think it was a  honest assessment of the way things have been going in this country for the last 40 years or more.  I find it mean spirited to NOT want Medicare for all, college for all who want it, a healthy planet, peace, and a chance of a little bit of happiness for all.  The denial of these opportunities is what I find to be mean spirited.  I will not unite with those who do not want these things for our children and grandchildren.  How could  I?  How can you?

      • #282039
        whispers
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 414

        You think the OP was mean spirited?  I think it was a  honest assessment of the way things have been going in this country for the last 40 years or more.  I find it mean spirited to NOT want Medicare for all, college for all who want it, a healthy planet, peace, and a chance of a little bit of happiness for all.  The denial of these opportunities is what I find to be mean spirited.  I will not unite with those who do not want these things for our children and grandchildren.  How could I?  How can you?

      • #282196
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,820

        @carrotguy They would never support a candidate like Bernie who opposes their vested interests. You preach unity; they could have unified behind the dreams of FDR, MLK, and LBJ, but they shat upon them and did everything they could to maintain their iron grip on the Party.

        Why is it that “unity” is thrown at progressives and dissenters, but never, ever at the establishment? Do you not see the double standard here?

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

      • #290580
        roody
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        • Total Posts: 419

        We need revolution and Bernie fucking Sanders.

      • #290899
        Carolina
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        • Total Posts: 187

        Every single word was true! What offends you… the curse words. I guess when Biden told a factory worker that he was ‘full of shit,’ you were ok with that!

        I realize the country has gotten more coarse in its discourse precisely because of its discord; and thus, there is much more gratuitous swearing, However, the appropriate time to swear is when angry. And if you’re not angry at the mess this country, this world, is in because of the failed misleadership that Satan chronicles, then you’re not paying attention.

    • #282028
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,667

      stated one thing he wants to do if he is elected? What is he even running on? I personally will never vote for him, but if I were an undecided voter what reason is he giving me to get my vote? Seriously.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #282034
      Maedhros
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 668

      “Normal” means:

      • Warrantless surveillance of American citizens
      • Escalating defense budgets
      • Austerity for the poor, profits for the rich
      • Rendition and torture
      • The Presidency claiming the power to execute Enemies of the State without due process
      • Undeclared wars against countries which have not threatened us
      • Children in cages
      • Militarized law enforcement
      • Police killing young black men and women, and a Federal justice department that just doesn’t care

      All of these things were normalized prior to Trump taking office.  This notion that Democrats will somehow “save” the United States would be laughable if it weren’t so depressing.  The weakness, greed, and depravity of Democrats – and voters’ willingness to reward them with public office – is why our country is swirling the bowl.

      His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
      but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
      and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
      more deadly than his right had been.

      • #282164
        MizzGrizz
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,062

        ..gives it away.

        That phrase was coined by Warren G.Harding,almost exactly a hundred years ago.

        Harding was the Bill Clinton of the 1920s,a conservative anti-labor Republican.

        Democrats used to be forward looking,wanting improvements and progress.Now they want to march straight to the rear.

    • #282307
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,377

      Kicked and recommended!

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #282651
      Dragon Turtle
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    • #290768
      xyzse
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,554

      I agree.  It took me less time to get to the point of being unable to vote for the “Eventual Nominee” than last time.

      Here’s the problem.  Trump?  He hasn’t really changed things.  The current situation is what is “Normal” to them.  The only difference is the presentation.

      If Biden were to come up, what do we get?  These standard incrementalism that goes nowhere, but slowly erode the safe-guards in place.

      At this point, the Democrats are trying to slow down the pace of decay so that it is like boiling a frog alive.  With Republicans, you can tell what’s wrong far faster.

      However, in regards to this instance.  I’m sorry, but DNC Establishment Means Testing is dumb.  Obviously, you can make a universal program and just tax the ones who don’t need it a little higher.  Rather than putting onerous applications, and ballooning administrative costs that makes a program cost far more than just paying people as is.

      The fact that Trump fielded them to the LEFT is ridiculous.  It just goes to show how the Establishment themselves really just favor the rich and their donors.  That’s it.

      Many will remember this come November.

    • #290874
      ghost13
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      • Total Posts: 1

      I’m registered independent and have always voted for the Democratic “lesser evil” candidate, except for when I saw Nader and the Greens as a realistically viable alternative. I will vote for the ”lesser evil” Biden not to ”return this country to normal”, but to get Trump out. That’s all that matters at this point. It’s not being a “moron”, it’s being pragmatic and terrified by the prospect of a second term or more for Sh*tler.

      My politics are far left of the mainstream Democrats, and I believe that Sanders was the great hope of our generation. In my skeptical view of American politics and with my acceptance of the general ignorance and downright stupidity of the American populace,  most of whom doesn’t even bother to vote (all due to a calculated plot to dumb down the population and create apathy ), I knew that there was little or no realistic path for Bernie winning the Democratic nomination, let alone the presidency, either in 2016 or 2020. If the DNC didn’t screw him, the Republicans and right-wing media would. There just isn’t enough unity or urgency amongst the progressives and leftists, and without a commitment to serious opposition such as mass protests or sit-down strikes, the corporate and Wall Street controlled puppets will continue to insert their candidates. The fact is, as I have reluctantly accepted over the years, is that we are a minority.We have to grow the progressive movement and become the majority.

      I understand the frustration and disillusionment now, with a relatively weak and corporatist candidate like Biden going up against the neo-fascist Trump- undoubtedly the worst president we have ever had foisted upon us; a con artist who knows how to game the system and manipulate the media via planned chaos. But even my political heroes such as Chomsky admit, to paraphrase, that an establishment Democrat like Biden will at least consider progressive ideas. Trump will not, ever, period.

      So that’s the choice we are faced with. Be idealistic, refuse to hold your nose and vote for the Democratic candidate, under whom things will get less worse, maybe even slightly better, or don’t vote and see Trump get another four years, or worse yet, a lifetime dictatorship with his disgusting progeny waiting in the wings to create a de-facto fascist monarchy. We have to accept the grim reality; incremental change is all we are going to get at this point. Nothing is ever going to be “normal” again after Trump’s insanity and the crisis that’s unfolding now.

      If we even survive this current pandemic, which has been worsened 1000 times by Trump’s calculated manipulation, can you even begin to imagine how bad things will be after another two, three or four years of this all-out assault on the American poor, middle and working classes, let alone his continued decimation of what little actual freedom we have left? He would love nothing better than a Putin or Kim style dictatorship. As bad as Biden might be, no one can honestly or realistically say that he wants the same, much less that he would be worse than Trump. If you really believe that, you are just letting your idealism cloud your judgement. I understand the theory that enabling a second Trump win might force the mainstream Dems to see the error of their ways, but I think it’s a moot point. There won’t be any way to get even a moderate in if Trump wins again. All hope will be lost if he and the Republicans retain control and continue to force their authoritarian agenda upon us, further stacking the courts with life-term right-wing sycophants and by silencing any opposition, Stalin-style.

      God bless Bernie Sanders for bringing so many urgent progressive ideas into the mainstream spotlight, an accomplishment I never thought I’d see in my lifetime. I am not religious, but I pray that he can keep pushing Biden and other mainstream Democrats towards the left, and maybe in 2024, a younger politician can take up the progressive mantle and bring about true change. For now, we just have to get Trump gone, at all costs.

      • #290896
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,820

        @ghost13 Trump is a feature, not the bug. He is a symptom, not the cause. The cause goes at least as far back as Reagan. The immediate causes of Trump winning were what Obama did and did not do, and what Hillary promised to do and not do, which was to continue the Obama Administration.

        Since that Administration did little to help most Americans and in fact made some things worse, such as new wars and continuations of all of the old ones, and since Obama and Clinton were for another disastrous free trade agreement, Trump, the Great Unknown, won over Hillary, because voters knew what they would get under Her.

        Now here you come, advocating voting for Biden over Trump because he wants to return us to the days of the Obama Administration? Sorry, but that don’t cut it. Those were certainly not good days for me and mine. Or my community.

        Why should I vote for a man I know will continue old wars and start new ones? At least Trump hasn’t gotten us into any new ones. Why should I vote for a man who is costing me over $8000 because of his bankruptcy reform? Under the old law, I’d have been free and clear years ago; now, I’m paying for another several years. Why should I vote for a man who made it impossible for my wife to get out from under the burden of student loan debt?

        Why should I vote for a man whose response to the coronavirus crisis is to the right of Donald Trump?

        Why, in short, should I vote for a man who has already done easily measurable harm to my family? Trump hasn’t done much to hurt us at all. So. Your LOTE argument actually tells me to vote for Trump. And there are tens of millions of voters just like me. It didn’t work in 2016, and it won’t work in 2020.

        As it stands now, I’ll either vote for the Green or not vote for President at all. In fact, after the way the Democrat Party rigged elections, engaged in voter suppression, and rallied round Dementia Joe in an all out offensive to stop a man who just wanted to implement the domestic policies of FDR and LBJ, I will not be voting for any Democrat on the ballot. Not even for dogcatcher.

        The Democrats and people like you have convinced me that the Democrat Party(I left off the “ic” just to be annoying, BTW) is irredeemably corrupt and must be destroyed for any necessary change to come to this country and the world.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

        • #291066
          Carolina
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 187

          I actually think the DemocRATic party is the greater evil because the sheer disdain it holds for a significant part of its dwindling base, the sweet nothings that fill DemocRATic campaign verbiage (once elected, we get less than shit while repukes at least throw their base some red meat on wedge issues), and the fake DemocRATic resistance to repukes, oligarchs and right wing ideology.

          I would suggest you vote Green instead of leaving the presidential choice blank. If we can’t have Bernie, we need to show the Dims that they are losing not solely to Trump but also to a third party. We need to make a third party viable.

      • #290917
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,142

        Corporate warmongering shills.  Vichy Dems who are proud of being austerity-loving warmongering neocon neoliberals.  No fucking way.

        No matter how verbose the now arriving “vote for the blue no matter who” screeds are – no.  Been there, done that.

        None of us are here because we cannot make up our minds or are looking for guidance.  And we went through the same “hold yer nose” bullshit in 2016.  Did not work then, will not work now.  Neither will “Bernie says” have any impact.  We are not like cult members who worship at the DNC shrine, we base our actions on records and issues, and getting rid of Trump is not the most important thing, no matter how many times and ways that is pushed.

        Nope.  Lesser evil may be YOUR only choice, but you do not get to speak for anyone but yourself, and you most certainly do not get to define “lesser evil” for the rest of us.  And, again, if Biden is so fucking electable, why the need to try and herd progressives into the Democratic Party charnel house that the DNC calls a “big tent”??

        Also the lifetime dictator bullshit is, well, bullshit meant to scare people.  Freepers moaned that Obama would do that very thing for eight years.  Every day.  That sort of thing works better, probably, on Facebook or Twitter.


        @ghost13

      • #290956
        Bill Haywood
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        • Total Posts: 138

        Well written piece of word salad and sophistry in defense of business as usual. Don’t worry. If that portfolio dries up there is always a chance for a guest spot on the Suze Orman show. This “incrementalism” you speak of assures one thing. More increments to the right. Each time the workers and the left fail to take a stand against this electoral charade everything moves incrementally further right. That is the real incrementalism that results from the reactionary ideology you spew.

         

      • #291042
        PolecatHollerer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,118

        Just no.

        If you give a man enough rope, it will be six inches too short. This is not the nature of rope- it is the nature of man.

      • #291089
        QuietYooper
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 38

        IMHO there is no value in arguing which choice is worse. It is also not worth arguing that the DNC is totally ok with losing.

        It is the fact that the DNC is not even trying.

        Where is the state-by-state plan to retain the House and win the Senate? Even if JRB were guaranteed to win, the DNC is poorly prepared to tackle Congressional races in purple counties. Their only advantage today is the growing quantity of GOP not seeking another term – and betting on your opponent to quit faster is a poor strategy. Since JRB is far from guaranteed to win, they should be laser-focused to ensure that both houses of Congress can slow DJT. But that is not happening. Why? Either the DNC donor class is already getting their money’s worth without the White House, or the DNC has presented the donors with such a dumpster fire of candidates and identity politics that they will “check their hand” to the convention or later. I think it is a combo of both.

        No, I do not believe JRB would be worse than DJT but yes, I do believe a JRB Administration could be worse than a DJT Administration. I really do.

        JRB will be shredded once the GE starts. SHREDD-ED. Warren or Harris as VP will not help, I actually believe both would hurt him. If the DNC really wanted to help him they would consider Tulsi but the donors will never allow even a whisper of that idea.

        I am going to be a first time grandpa in July and that kid’s future is all I think about. I refuse to let the POTUS GE twist me into knots, nor the DNC kabuki theatre. Or the MN DFL nonsense. This summer will be a crazy shit-show of media hype and mis-direction. Tina Smith and Betty McCollum have no credible primary or GE opponents so no need to invest any energy there. The only way for me to help a new progressive Congress critter from MN win is if DJT wins 2020 and Klobuchar renounces 2022 Senate re-election and focuses on 2024 POTUS. OMG I just re-read that last sentence and puked in my mouth a little.

      • #327513
        Hobbit709
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,830

        Once you accept ANY level of evil, it finds it much easier to be accepted the next time.

        I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

      • #327538
        closeupready
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,362

        Sorry, not sorry.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #327547
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,144

        to Biden’s first term as POTUS, it is clear that Trump is the greater evil as POTUS.  Yes, I know, Biden has never been POTUS. And Trump is hands down the absolute worst POTUS in US history to date.

        Those who speculate that Biden will be worse than Trump are, well…..speculating.  Despite pointing out a few of the nasty things that Biden has done, (some of which are RW fantasies, which does not help them make their case) and beside the fact that his protect the status quo of plutocrat oligarchy  New Democrat Moderate Republican ideology will lead him to do little or nothing to fix the serious problems that the country and world face, they have not presented credible evidence that clearly shows that Biden will be worse than Trump.

        Lots of speculation and theorizing about how Biden will be worse than Trump.  But there is no way to prove this.

        Trump has set the bar lower than it has ever been since 1776 and with each passing day, it becomes clearer that there is no bottom for Trump.  There is no limit to how low he can go.

        Biden is a poor candidate in so many ways, and voting for him in order to return to return the country to normal is flat out stupid.  And normal means sustained decline of quality of life for every living thing on the planet, except maybe scavengers and parasites.  So there’s that.

        But it is difficult to conceive that Biden, or anyone else, except for someone who is a Nazi more dedicated to increasing the wealth, power, control, and unitary executive authority of the private plutocrat oligarchy than Trump is, will, or can, be worse than Trump.

        At present, we are, in reality, presented with the choices of voting for the lesser of two evils, protest voting for a candidate who cannot win, or not voting at all.  Making any of these choices can be understood, and respected.  New Democrat Moderate Republicans/DNC have repeatedly and clearly proven their lack of integrity and honor.

        After 3 1/2 years of Trump’s fascist foolishness, voting for Trump is no longer an option for reasonable people.

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

    • #290918
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,142
    • #290932
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,176

      Vote for ‘the lesser EVIL”?  You’ve gotta’ be sheetin’ me!  For those who suggest doing that I SAY………

    • #291013
      xloadiex
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 145

      All this matters if you truly believe people are voting en masse for Biden. I do not. The votes/voting machines are absolutely being cooked for him. All you have to do is look at the skewed exit polls and how many of the machines are now BMD’s with QR codes that are proprietary. Unfortunately our hands are tied since the courts ruled that it’s A-ok for the DNC to cheat if they want.

      I have to agree with Michael Moore on this one. The plan is, they will admit by the convention that his brain is mush. The plan is to stick whoever his VP pick is in. Moore says all his sources are telling him not to worry about Biden. He is going to pick a strong intelligent woman as his VP. He will win based on that. Moore says we cannot go against trump thinking people are voting on a VP pick. I’m really thinking it may be Warren to try and get the progressives on their side. While they may get some, good luck to them. Warren’s name is dirt with most of the progressives I know.

      I believe it’s episode 50 of his Podcast”Rumble” if anyone wants to listen.

    • #327516
      not4sale
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 253

      If people don’t understand what that means they are fucking morons.  About 30% of Americans are fucking morons.

      • #327555
        MizzGrizz
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,062

        …progressive candidate in the world,which he’s not,how he got the nomination should give anybody cause for pause.

        Voting for him is saying you’re okay with rigged primaries and media people slanting their reporting in favor of the rich.

        I choose to not be okay with either his policies or how he got the nomination.

        • #327578
          Betty Karlson
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 467

          @mizzgrizz

           

          If we accept Biden, we also accept that primaries can and will be rigged against honest candidates. Thereby, we accept that we can only have so much actual representation, that we must and shall swallow the Feinsteins, Pelosis, Engels, Klobuchars, Buttigiegs of the elite’s choice, as well as the Gorsuchs, Kavanaughs, Thomases of the elite’s acquiescence.

           

          If we accept Biden, we accept that not only will we be fought every step of the way (no change from either Obama or Trump there), we will be fought while having one hand permamently tied behind our backs, because “look at the other side how dare you critique us you racist sexist pony-wanting Trump-humping unicorn-riding lazy complacent basement-dwelling Hell-bound and slutty millennials lusting for bullying Bernie-bros oh won’t somebody think of the children on the Internet!”

           

          If we accept Biden, we accept that nothing will fundamentally change. We accept that our choice is and will forever be between sh*t (what Obama offered) and diarrhea (what Trump is offering). Not sure that the solidity of the excrement is the issue here, Biden-folks!

          • #327579
            MizzGrizz
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 2,062

            ..”nothing will fundamentally change.”He promised that to his Wall Street buddies.

            Like Maya Angelou said:When someone tells you who they are,believe them.

    • #327580
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 818

      Moron? No, misinformed and propagandized -yes.

      Also, if people would like to look behind the curtain,

      instead of giving in to TDS, they should understand

      that Trump is nothing more than the extension of

      the plutocratic domination of the government.

      We have been told by Biden himself: “Nothing will

      fundamentally change.” And that is what the Dems

      stand for, in spite of their denial.

    • #327582
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,708

      That’s why God invented noses and opposing thumbs to hold them for elections.

      I see Joe as just another ambitious pol who does what pols do.

      I see Trump as a very dangerous psychopath who will do anything and sacrifice anybody to fulfill his dream to be a “somebody” rather than the complete failure he actually is.

      Anybody who thinks that their single vote will decide or even influence the outcome of a presidential election is in for a very sad dose of reality.

      Political language—and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists—is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.”  George Orwell

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #327585
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,820

        @bazukhov You’re not voting for Biden to return the country to normal; you’re voting for him because you think Trump’s worse and because you choose to cast your vote on that basis. You’re an American citizen and you have that right. Fine. Just as I have the right not to vote for either SOB, and others have the right to vote for Trump because they think that Biden will just usher someone in who is worse than Trump, just like Clinton was responsible for setting up Dubya and Obama was for Trump.

        All of those are perfectly reasonable things to do.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

        • #327589
          bazukhov
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,708

          Everybody who votes at all have their own reasons to vote the way they do.   Ideology, habit, love, hatred, pique, or hair color of the candidates.

          Which is one reason I’m not a big fan of democracy.

          I live in a deeply blue state that will most certainly go for Biden.   I freely admit my vote isn’t about Biden or being a Democrat but it is about my utter contempt and disgust of Trump.

          Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

          • #327608
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 14,820

            @bazukhov He answered immediately, which was unusual for him. He usually thought for a minute first. He said “benevolent dictatorship.” He qualified it by pointing out the problems of replacing the benevolent dictator when he died, which have plagued philosophers, governments, civilizations, tribes and clans forever.

            The Romans made a good show of it with their “five good emperors,” where each Emperor adopted a son at a young age and trained them to be the successor. It worked until Marcus Aurelius allowed his own son Commodus to inherit the throne. Of course, without that, Russell Crowe never would have had the chance to star in Gladiator.

            I still think Winston Churchill had the best observation on the subject: Democracy is the worst form of government ever invented by man, except for all the others. 

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #327611
      jerry611
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 905

      Your choice in this election is to “return America to normal” or “keep America great.”

      Awesome choice, right?

      • #327616
        Betty Karlson
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 467

        “But the lions are much nobler!” (classic perception)

        “But the hyenas have female leadership!” (actually true: hyenas are matriarchal)

        “But the lions will keep out the buffalos!” (they won’t: more to eat is very much in their interest)

        “But if you don’t vote for the hyenas, you must be prejudiced against elephants!” (makes no sense, but then what does?)

        “Why the fuck are the elephants stampeding ?!”

        “We are listening to the elephants! Pachiderm kids are just as bright as real herbivores.”

        “Make the savannah great again!”

        “The savannah is already great!”

        “Maybe our base would be fired up if the Supreme Court didn’t give giraffes the right to marry!”

        “I wouldn’t be here if that long-nosed interloper hadn’t primaried me! Will the Viviroidea-Jackal PAC please come to my defense?”

      • #327617
        Satan
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,238

        A guy wakes up to find himself in Hell. He’s a little shocked when I ask him if he would prefer Republican Hell, or Democratic Hell.

        What’s the difference? he asks.

        Well, in Republican Hell, they pour gasoline all over you, light a match, and then you burn for 666 hours and rest for 666 hours, repeat unto eternity.

        And the Democratic Hell?

        They pour gasoline all over you, light a match and you burn for 666 hours and rest for 666 hours.

        So what’s the difference?

        Well, off the record, I’d go with the Democratic Hell. Because somebody usually forgets the matches or gasoline.

        "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

        • #327627
          Betty Karlson
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 467

          First, we should acknowledge that the Democratic Hell has moved so far to the right that it is now the place where former Republicans are wielding the matches and gasoline.

          Second, we should acknowledge that the GOP has moved so far to the right that it is now a place where old-fashioned burnings at the stake take place.

          Third, we should acknowledge that both sides have done a pretty good job of creating Hell on earth: jointly!

           

          I’d suggest we consolidate both Hells into one giant corporate Hell: remarkably a lot like earth, except it’s only inhabited by corporatists but they have no control over the climate, just like the 99% on the actual earth. Government choices are restricted to “the Greater Evil” and “the lesser Evil” and last election’s greater evil invariably becomes the lesser evil one generation hence. After everybody has died 666 deaths, repeat.

           


          @satan
          can you please confirm that I am not the soul of a corporatist being actually tortured for some past sins? Because I could believe myself to already be in that Hell.

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