December 16, 2019 at 1:32 PM - Views: 144 #238980
I am seriously – no sarcasm here – in favor of impeaching Trump. I would be beyond happy if he were tried and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, by people who were not just as guilty – or even more guilty of many of the same things of which he is. When such justice is not meted out equally, it is not justice.
A few things to consider: Google the NDAA. Use whatever fact checkers you like – this is information available to the public, free unless you hit one of those damned pay walls that the corporate media keeps throwing up – in which case, just click another link. Google the Obama administration, the Bush or Clinton administration – check out how they treated refugees and immigrants. Google the Patriot act – the original version of the NDAA. Remember the Iraq war? Afghanistan? Remember shock and awe? How about when the media went on their kick, not too long ago, about “entitlements”? You know, entitlements like… well, food and water. Or housing. Or, you know, some basic means by which the most vulnerable of our society might survive?
Guess what? These attacks are bipartisan. These assaults against the constitution, against us, against we the people, have never been the result of one party’s policies, but of both. How about the cost of prescription drugs? Or healthcare in general? Well, I’m sure glad the ACA saved us all, aren’t you? Well… except, it didn’t.
How did we come to this? When our policies are mostly written by corporate lobbyists – and, when they are serious, almost always quickly receive the stamp of approval from both parties in both houses? Could it be that… perhaps, just perhaps… we have been deliberately turned against each other? That democrats and republicans have, for a long time, blamed each other for… pretty much everything that both parties elites are laughingly, even contemptuously engaged in? Could it be that their servants in the media have aided and abetted in this distraction and misdirection?
At the end of the day, it is not about Trump. It is about the system that enabled and empowered him – and those before him. Each one is guilty of crimes for which they should have stood trial. Each one was deliberately engaged in promoting policies that were a mockery of the constitution. Each one presided over torture, murder, war for profit, the imprisonment of children. Each one presided over policies which gave billions, even trillions, to the wealthy and ultra-wealthy, while, piece by piece, obliterating our society’s safety net.
Some few spoke out against it, some few had a clue what was going on. Most of us though? That’s too much shit to read, right? I mean, isn’t it easier, much easier – and probably much more healthy to maintain a blissful ignorance? An ignorance that tells us right is wrong and left is right, or vice versa. One that tells us that democrats are good and republicans are evil, or vice versa. One that tells us that Trump is a monster (and he is indeed) but that praises other monsters for pretending to attempt to hold him accountable?
Where is the accountability? Show me, when have any of these crooks stood trial? Where are the charges? They are not there. They ARE NOT there. Don’t think for a minute that the likes of Pelosi, Schiff, Schumer, or the corporate/establishment/fucking asshole Vichy dems – are your friends. They are not. Pelosi is called Speaker of the house – but she may as well be called Speaker of the Oligarchy. Those who dare to point such things out, well… they tend to be mocked, belittled, made into pariahs.
I will tell you this truth though: almost every politician currently in office has already betrayed any oath they ever took. There are some few who maintain some amount of integrity – but very, very few. Don’t believe me? Look at how they vote. That is all one need do to see who is actually a public servant – and who is not.
I will praise politicians if they earn it – if they deserve it. I will praise them when and if they actually name names, beyond playing one party against another.
It is a long game – a long con game, none of us are going to benefit from it in the long run – not even the wealthy. The policies currently in play are destroying our planet, killing our people – and wiping out life all over the world. They are crushing dreams and hopes. They are upholding policies that force the many into poverty – while enabling the extreme wealth of the few. Do not be fooled. Obama fooled many of us – it is only in retrospect, looking at his policies and his votes – looking at what he actually DID, while in office… that we come to understand that.
Or, by all means, let us rally in the name of impeachment, let us forsake knowledge and truth and throw all of our anger at these betrayals at one who is just another monster. Just one among many.
No, I will call this what it is: A farce. It was never going to be anything else.
December 16, 2019 at 1:39 PM #238982Ohio BarbarianModerator
- Total Posts: 13,776
December 16, 2019 at 2:01 PM #238990
I wish I didn’t have to. I keep seeing this reoccurring theme though, on political forums, on facebook and elsewhere: “We should thank/praise Pelosi/Schiff/etc. for doing their duty in impeaching Trump!” Where was their concern for duty when it came to important votes? Where was their patriotism, where did demonstrate any integrity as actual public servants? I am talking about the many – not the few. There are some who are consistent, but, they are in an extreme minority in political offices.
Every time I see this reoccurring theme, I can’t help but feel disappointed. It is not hard, to come to understand the game being played, or how they have fooled us, year after year, into keeping it up. Just look at their votes. Not at their words, pretty campaign speeches, not at the reoccurring themes we tend to see on social media… look at what they actually did. Look at who funds their campaigns – to the extent, of course, that we can – as a lot of that money is basically invisible, not even reported.
I do not believe that people are stupid. I remember what it was like… the feeling of righteous indignation every time the republicans did something I despised – some times I still get that feeling. Only now, I understand all too well, that it is not a republican thing. It is a bipartisan scam. I do not know, truly, if it has ever been anything else. Of course I am young, only 35 – but I have endured enough – lived enough, with sickness and poverty, to come to understand these things.
Policies matter… issues matter. When they cut food stamps, people go hungry. When they cut housing and heating, people go cold. When they permit drug companies to make their own rules without regulation – people lose their medications and their lives. When they permit the financial institutions to send the world economy into a nosedive – and then give those same people hundreds of billions of dollars to “rescue” the economy…
They are transparent, easily transparent, all we need do to discover that is a little bit of research. Still… reading lots of words tends to frustrate a lot of people. Sound bites, memes, “Turn the corner”, “shock and awe”, “Look forward, not back”, blah blah. How simply they play so many of us. How simply so many of us fall into the game.
I wonder… will there come a time when there is mass consensus about such things? When people understand that we have been deliberately lied to? That we have been deliberately setup as scapegoats, as enemies of each other? Will the war machine, perhaps, one day go to work against all of us?
If we cannot come to understand what is truly happening, I fear that we will pay the price of ignorance. Sooner or later, the current politicians and policies in play… if we cannot change them… will bring an end to our society. None of what is happening today can continue indefinitely – we are a civilization racing to the bottom. It makes me sad – and I am depressed enough to begin with. If we but stood together, we could throw them all out today.
December 16, 2019 at 3:02 PM #239009Ohio BarbarianModerator
- Total Posts: 13,776
@davidthegnome All one has to do is to look at the vote on the recent NDAA to see the worthlessness of Nancy Pelosi and the Vichy Dems; worthless to most Americans, anyway. Sure, the VDs performed one duty to the Constitution in the weakest and least effective way possible IMO, but they did.
But that one microscopic good deed reveals its true irrelevance when one looks at everything else they do that serves the oligarchy’s interests as opposed to public interests.
There used to be a difference between the two major parties as late as the 1970s, though there was always some overlap. Conservadems of one variety or the other have always been around, though not always in control of the Party as they are now. OTOH, there used to be such a thing as liberal and moderate Republicans. Those subspecies are practically extinct now. After the Third Way took over the Democratic Party under the Clintons, it’s been sellout after capitulation after more war from most national Democrats.
All Pelosi is doing is following the 1993 playbook.
It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs
If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower
December 16, 2019 at 2:02 PM #238991retired liberalParticipant
- Total Posts: 2,569
Telling it as it is, speaking truth to anyone who will listen, is the only way we will get out of this mess.
We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
December 16, 2019 at 2:21 PM #238995incognitoParticipant
- Total Posts: 3,704
As usual, we’re being played in this ongoing dog and pony show the Oligarchs like to perform for the peasants.
The sad thing is, millions of peasants still haven’t seen through the facade. They still believe we live in a Democracy.
December 21, 2019 at 5:47 PM #241474EnthusiastParticipant
- Total Posts: 4,240
They still believe we live in a Democracy with a functioning justice system.
I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".
December 16, 2019 at 2:25 PM #238997salemcourtParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,342
Good analysis. One thing that should be mentioned. Unlike the east and west coast, where impeachment fever is strong, in the midwest and flyover country, people see this for the farce it is and they are threatening to quit the democratic party and vote for Trump (based on a misplaced sense of fairness, I assume). I hear this view quite often enough that it concerns me a lot. This is the biggest reason that I do not support this process at all.
December 16, 2019 at 2:35 PM #239002GZeusHParticipant
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Democracy don’t work.
It was designed to give the people the appearance of having a voice, which is far, far short of designing a system which works for all people. Even undemocratic systems, like a monarchy, could work for all people if the institutions were set up that way. All democracy does is provide some sort of release valve for people that the system is not working for. They can vote, in addition to bitching and moaning, which don’t improve their situation. But as we well know, voting doesn’t really improve the situation either, and large swaths of the voting population can be convinced to vote against their own interests.
The best thing about Bernie’s candidacy is that he is looking to change the system, to make it work for everyone. If these changes are voted in, then when he is gone, they can be voted out. If he is successful in changing attitudes, if he can make the mere existence of billionaires a failure as obvious as a huge pothole in front of city hall, he will have succeeded in changing the present system. That’s the mass consensus that we need to be striving for.
December 16, 2019 at 3:09 PM #239011VoltairineParticipant
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“Representative” oligarchy and dictatorship of majority are very poor forms of democracy. Indigenous, hippies and anarchists have practical experience of consensus democracy, it works better. The challenge is scaling up consensus from local go global level.
Chief Oren of Haydanosaynee speaks of valuable experience, IMHO an important voice to listen among many others, so that we can learn how to build global democracy that serves the interest of all peoples, all life.
December 21, 2019 at 7:40 PM #241503The Red MenaceParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,080
You do know that the Haudenosaunee system of democracy… is representative, right? Each town would elect from itself a speaker in a council. This speaker would go to the nation’s council to speak for that town’s interest in the process of the nation electing a sachem. That sachem would then go to the Great council, to speak on behalf of his Nation. It’s the inspiration for the US’s own House of representatives (the senate is still modeled after European modes of Republicanism.)
I think European anarchists should study the political systems of indigenous societies. Like… actually learn about them. Not just glance at them and claim “see, they were anarchists too, so my ideology is valid!” because… none of them were anarchists. Literally none of them. Pointing to an indigenous people and going “no, no, they’re really anarchists, no matter the actual differences!” is just another flavor of colonialism.
The reason anarchists keep doing this is pretty obvious. It’s intentional erasure. After all, if indigenous societies were able to come up with structured governments that enforced laws, displayed social hierarchies, clearly differentiated governors, all while (usually) maintaining egalitarian values, individual choices and freedoms, and protecting the land around them… then anarchism is wrong, since it strictly maintains that the first set of characteristics are inherently inimical to the second.
And anarchism can’t be wrong – especially if it means non-Europeans are right. They don’t even have a bibliography full of authors with completely fucking unpronounceable Czech names! “Have you even read Zmochyzcorzkyie? How about Byukvchznytln? You really can’t understand the principle unless you’ve read Byukvchznytln.”
if anarchists are serious about wanting an egalitarian society that functions… then yes. They need to actually learn about indigenous politics. They need to learn about the way traditional communities have organized, structured, and governed. Instead, as noted… they point at these societies, claim them in the name of “anarchism” and move on like they’re Spanish conquistadors jamming a flag into sand.
December 16, 2019 at 2:51 PM #239006
December 16, 2019 at 3:14 PM #239012
December 16, 2019 at 6:30 PM #239063GZeusHParticipant
- Total Posts: 2,489
They attempted it here…at one time…for white male property owners. Since then, as they have expanded the number and type of people that can vote, they concurrently contracted the utility of that vote.
For it to work, you have to have some basic axioms: (1) one man, one vote (no, that doesn’t include one dollar, one vote) (2) everyone is equally informed as to the background of the issue being voted on (3) everyone is voting on how it affects them, not how their identity group might think about it (4) there won’t be a vote that deprives a small minority to enrich a large majority (or vice versa even). These sound a lot like the axioms that go into a free market, something that economists take as a given, rather than bothering to check and tick off whether or not they are being followed.
There are probably places where all these axioms apply, and some fashion of democracy works. Small towns in New England with their town meetings comes to mind. Once the group gets large enough that it can split into identity factions, democracy begins to fail.
December 16, 2019 at 3:54 PM #239020Mr. Mickeys MomModerator
- Total Posts: 3,322
Agree…. To the Daily Radical!
This morning’s Democracy Now! interview where Amy Goodman talks to Ralph Nader sums up all the fakery “on the table” impeachment of Donald Trump, versus what the Democrats have decided THROUGH TIME to take off the table…
(scroll to December 16, 2019 interview segment (last 15 minutes of today’s show)
Go to Nader’s website for the role that Pelosi and other traders have taken on as Vichy Democrats… My feet can no longer march against the war crimes I’ve spoken out against since W was selected by a SCOTUS who faked up this mess.
Hell, no... I'm not giving up...
December 16, 2019 at 7:27 PM #239085MizzGrizzParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,873
I’d be happy to impeach Trump if 1.they went after Joe Biden for doing the same thing they accuse Trump of and 2.if it had a chance in hell and wasn’t just time wasting kabuki.
But since neither of those things are true,count me as one of those folks in flyover country who is completely unaffected and completely unimpressed.
December 21, 2019 at 5:49 PM #241475
December 16, 2019 at 11:07 PM #239128
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