"Impeach Trump To Fight White Nationalist Terrorism"

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  • #222712

    Charles
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    @charles

     

     

     

    My heart goes out to the victims of the anti-Semitic terrorist shootings Saturday at the Chabad of Poway synagogue in California.

    I believe that the most impactful and practical act we can do now to honor these victims of anti-Semitic terrorism and to stem the rising tide of hate crimes and violence toward Jews, Muslims, immigrants, and people of color is to impeach Trump, the bigot in chief.

    Trump’s racist tropes and incitements to violence are encouraging white nationalist movements and terrorism in the US and around the world. Hate crimes against racial and religious minorities in the US have jumped since Trump announced his candidacy in June 2015 with bigoted statements against Mexicans, soon followed by the Muslim ban and racist and anti-Semitic tropes against blacks and Jews. The FBI reported a 17% increase in hate crimes in 2017, Trump’s first year in office. In 2017, hate crimes increased 16% against blacks, 24% against Latinos, and 57% against Jews. A record high number of LBGTQ people were murdered that year. Hate crimes against Muslims have increased 77% since 2015. A recent study found that in counties where Trump held rallies, hate crimes increased 226% in the following months.

    Rep. Al Green (D-TX) was right to force a House vote on his solely-sponsored impeachment resolution in December 2017 on the grounds that Trump’s racism and bigotry make him unfit to be president. Green’s resolution recounted many examples of how Trump had harmed the American people “by publicly casting
    contempt on individuals and groups, inciting hate and hostility, sowing discord among the people…on the basis of race, national origin, religion, gender, and sexual orientation” and “by associating the majesty and dignity of the presidency with causes rooted in white supremacy, bigotry, racism, anti-Semitism, white nationalism, or neo-Nazism.” Congress voted his impeachment resolution down 364-58, with most of the Democrats joining the Republicans in voting no.

    Trump’s racism, bigotry, and incitements to violence are sufficient grounds alone for impeachment. But there are plenty of more grounds that are plain to see for anyone who cares to look at the news: self-enriching emoluments and nepotism; abuses of power, obstructions of justice, and contempt of Congress; constant lying; demonizing the press; harassment of journalists and immigration lawyers at the Mexican border; felony campaign hush-money payments; and seeking and welcoming campaign support from Russians, Saudis, Emiratis, and Israelis. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming for crimes before he took office, including sexual assault, racial discrimination, money laundering, bank fraud, insurance fraud, tax evasion, wage theft, and refusing to pay contractors and creditors.

    Only a rich white man could expect to get away with this in America. The Republicans would have impeached Obama instantly for any one of these offenses. But the Democratic leadership seems cynically intent on leaving Trump in office as a villainous foil for fundraising….

    Read more:

    https://howiehawkins.us/impeach-trump-fight-white-terror/

     

     

    Bernie Sanders on Impeachment:

     

    Bernie Sanders Calls For House To Start Impeachment Inquiry

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-impeachment-trump_n_5cf41471e4b0a1997b6c2868

     

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

     

    Ocasio-Cortez Blasts Democrats’ “Refusal” to Impeach Trump

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/ocasio-cortez-democrats-refusing-impeach-trump.html

     

    Tulsi Gabbard:

     

    Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Statement on the Impeachment Inquiry

    September 27, 2019

    Press Release

    Washington, DC—Today, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (HI-02) issued the following statement regarding the impeachment inquiry launched this week by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi:

     

    “Up to this point, I have been opposed to pursuing impeachment because it will further divide our already badly divided country.

     

    “However, after looking carefully at the transcript of the conversation with Ukraine’s President, the whistleblower complaint, the Inspector General memo, and President Trump’s comments about the issue, unfortunately, I believe that if we do not proceed with the inquiry, it will set a very dangerous precedent. Future presidents, as well as anyone in positions of power in the government, will conclude that they can abuse their position for personal gain, without fear of accountability or consequences.

     

    “If we allow the President to abuse his or her power, then our society will rot from top to bottom. We will turn into a banana republic, where people in positions of power—from the president all the way down to the traffic cop—will feel it’s okay to abuse their power with no consequences.

    “This is not the kind of country that any of us want to see….

    Read more:

    https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/rep-tulsi-gabbard-statement-impeachment-inquiry

     

     

    Ilhan Omar:

     

     

    Rep. Ilhan Omar On Trump Impeachment: ‘It’s Not If … It’s When’

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/rep-ilhan-omar-trump-impeached_n_5d80365fe4b077dcbd632048

     

     

    Rashida Tlaib:

     

    Rashida Tlaib calls for impeachment of Donald Trump

    https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/Rashida-Tlaib-calls-for-impeachment-of-Donald-Trump-600856

     

     

    Ro Khanna:

     

     

    Rep. Ro Khanna: Senate ‘unlikely to convict’ Trump but it’s important to hold him ‘accountable for what happened’

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/khanna-senate-unlikely-trump-impeachment

     

    Pramila Jayapal:

     

    Washington Rep. Pramila Jayapal wants a Trump impeachment inquiry — now!

    https://www.seattlepi.com/local/politics/article/Trump-Rep-Jayapal-wants-an-impeachment-inquiry-13905641.php

     

     

    Ralph Nader:

     

    Ralph Nader predicts fastest impeachment in history for Trump

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/10/10/ralph-nader-predicts-fastest-impeachment-in-history-for-trump/

     

    Keith Ellison:

     

    Keith Ellison calls for impeachment investigations of Donald Trump

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/keith-ellison-calls-for-impeachment-investigations-of-donald-trump-a7594671.html

     

     

    Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

  • #222795

    Yanath
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    @yanath

    The impeachment is in lieu of issues. This is glaringly obvious.

    • #222895

      Charles
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      @charles

      @yanath

      I think Progressives can do both. Undoubtedly they would prefer focusing solely on the issues.

      Still America must start dealing with corruption. It might as well start with Trump. He never quits breaking the law.

      Or are we suppose to wait until he digs up dirt on Bernie in illegal ways before we take action? Or should we shrug that off too? Trump has made it pretty obvious that he will try if he’s allowed to get way with it.

      Also Biden’s corrupt behavior is out in the open as well thanks to these hearings. Heck much of the discussion in the hearing today was focused on Biden. The trouble is the law in this regard is very weak and many in both parties engage in skirting the laws to benefit financially.

      This is nothing new. Political corruption is as as old as politics itself. It gets addressed and then it creeps back in.

      Now we’re at a point where we have a president who openly stated he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and get away with it. And that’s how he is leading as president. As much as others have gotten away with things Trump is taking it to the maximum limits. It’s time to start addressing corruption. We’ve waited long enough.

      So ya. It doesn’t help the focus on the very important issues we need to address.

      But if we ignore the corruption it’s only going to get worse. And with Trump in office NOTHING will get done anyway. Trump will go out of his way to block any kind of legislation that will do anything to help the people rather than line his pockets and the pockets of his buddies….

       

       

       

      Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

    • #223629

      bazukhov
      Member
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      @bazukhov

      What is the most important issue for most Democrats?

      The polls overwhelmingly show it is getting rid of Trump.

      If the Dems don’t go after Trump they are damned fools.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #223636

        game meat
        Member
        • Total Posts: 841
        @gamemeat

        Healthcare is usually number one, followed by economy/jobs.

        While it’s kind of a semantic argument, defeating Trump isn’t really an issue, exactly. It goes without saying you want to win against your opponent, no?

        Biden sure looked silly when he said the first thing he would do once elected would be to “defeat Donald Trump.”

        • #223972

          bazukhov
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          @bazukhov

          Fortunately, it most likely won’t be Biden vs Trump.   If he can’t even win a state like Iowa where can he get the votes to win the nomination?   It kind of beats his “electability” song & dance.

          However,  defeating (or removing) Trump is the most important issue (cause, goal, desire, concern) of most of the Democrats who will select the candidate.  All of the other “issues” that concern Democrats will come to naught if they don’t win the presidency.

           

           

          Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #223980

        Voltairine
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        @voltairine

        Top issues for voters: Health care, economy, immigration.

        https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-healthcare-economy-immigration.aspx

        The purpose is election is not to listen only voters who are registered as Democrats, but also to get people who voted Trump last time to vote better candidate who has something better to offer to all people.

        Aloha!

  • #222901

    ravensong
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    @ravensong

    Brother Charles, don’t you see that Bernie, AOC, Tulsi, Ilhan, Rashida, Ro, Ralph. and Keith only want to impeach Trump in order to get you to vote blue no matter who?

    Thanks for posting!

    Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

    See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
    https://www.mfacalc.com/
    Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

    • #222922

      Charles
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      @charles

      @ravensong

      Thanks for the reply :)

      Unless every progressive leader I know is part of the grand conspiracy I am inclined to side with them on impeachment.

      I understand the skepticism in regards to impeachment. There is certainly more that are corrupt than just Trump including those who are involved in the impeachment efforts. And I don’t think valid issues in regards to this should be ignored. Those issues need to be dealt with as well.

      But like these progressive leaders I feel Trump has violated the law on many occasions and he deserves to be impeached.

      Tulsi was one of the few holdouts. But once she saw some of the evidence she also decided Trump had gone too far.

      At this point all the top progressives are on board. This should carry some weight if we actually trust them to do their job…

      Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

    • #222950

      Yanath
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      @yanath

      @ravensong

      I can’t speak to what motivates those individuals, but I am certain that Trump would be utterly destroyed, in a competition on important issues. Those who hold real power within the Democratic party, don’t want that, however.

      It’s interesting that one who presumably observes and understands politics, is completely oblivious to the coercive forces that exist within a given political establishment and especially within a particular party.

      • #223631

        ravensong
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        @ravensong

        @yanath

        Trump is a very obviously, based on his actions, a dangerous anti-democratic authoritarian fascist who is a clear and present danger and an immediate threat to the liberty and democracy of the people of the United States and the world. And the planet itself.

        If you don’t see that, you are either not paying attention, or living in denial.

        Trump committed an impeachable offense.  If you don’t think that Trump using the power of public office to attempt to extort the government and people of another nation for his own personal profit is wrong, then you and I definitely have very different codes of ethics.

        Trump is the an immediate threat and clear present danger to me, my family, my people, my country, and my planet, and is justifiably being impeached.  He will not be convicted by the Senate, but at least Trump is being exposed more as the ratfucking fascist he is.

        I’ll deal with the Democrats who brought us Trump later, after either the deadly threat to my survival that is Trump is either quelled, or leave the country to avoid living in an authoritarian fascist dictatorship led by a corrupt madman.

        Anyone who is so worried about the bears in the forest that they fail to deal with the hungry wolf staring them in the face in their own bedroom….is a fool that gets eaten.

        Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

        See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
        https://www.mfacalc.com/
        Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

  • #222935

    ravensong
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    @ravensong

    Yes, the agreement of all those knowledgeable progressives is validating.

    I’m all for impeaching all corrupt politicians, no matter who they are, or what party they belong to.

    The thing about impeachment is, an impeachable offense has to be committed, and there has to be sufficient evidence to prove that the impeachable offense was committed.  Even Republicans understand that they can’t just start impeachment proceedings on wild, impossible to prove conspiracy theories cooked up by some moron at InfoWars or the like.  Otherwise they would have tried to impeach Obama over his Birth Certificate.

     

    Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

    See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
    https://www.mfacalc.com/
    Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

  • #223008

    jerry611
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    @jerry611

    You can’t impeach the President for being racist.

    Constitution says you can only impeach for “Treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.” In other words it wasn’t the intention of the framers that the president can be impeached just because you don’t like him or says something that is offensive. Hate speech is also protected by the first amendment. You can’t criminalize it in America. And Trump is not by any means the first racist president. We’ve had bunch of them. (One of them is currently on the $20 bill.)

    If you want to beat a racist President (or any racist politician for that matter), you got to do it at the voting booth. The Senate is not going to remove Trump. And even if they did, it will not make his racist supporters disappear. There is always going to be racists. That is a problem that no impeachment hearing can stop.

    • #223017

      Charles
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      @charles

      @jerry611

      Apparently Green Party prez candidate Howie Hawkins and Rep. Al Green think Trump can and should be.

      Here is Rep. Green makes his case for doing so:

      Many people are under the mistaken impression that only prosecutable crimes are impeachable. But the Constitution’s standard for impeachable offenses—“high Crimes and Misdemeanors”—is not limited to prosecutable crimes. Congress has repeatedly reaffirmed that this phrase, drawn from a long history in England, has a broader reach. As the classic book on impeachment explains, this standard includes serious abuses of office that “are plainly wrong in themselves to a person of honor, or to a good citizen, regardless of words on the statute books.”

      Trump regularly tramples that line. Since taking office as president, Trump has repeatedly sown discord within our society by encouraging bigotry, hatred, and violence. He re-tweets anti-Muslim videos, calls the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville “very fine people,” and uses the bully pulpit for racial tirades, such as his attacks on (mostly black) football players who protest against police brutality. This rhetoric fulfills no governmental function, but is simply misuse of his taxpayer-funded position to sow racial hostility.

      We’ve seen this before. In 1868, Congress impeached (and very nearly convicted) President Andrew Johnson over his efforts to block post-Civil War Reconstruction so that the defeated Confederate states could re-impose the antebellum system of white supremacy. The impeachment charges centered on Johnson’s efforts to fire a pro-Reconstruction official, but the tenth article cited a feverish rant in which Johnson blamed a white-led massacre on congressional efforts to extend the vote to black people…

      https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/453508-trumps-racist-abuses-demand-impeachment

      Here is Green’s bill.

      https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-resolution/646/text

       

      But obviously if we didn’t impeach Bush for lying us into war, war crimes, and torture we won’t impeach Trump based on his hate speech that encourages violence against minorities.

      As for me any of the dozen or so other reasons Trump should be impeached will do.

      ALL the progressives in office have decided Trump has done enough to warrant his impeachment. Even the Green party presidential candidate and the former GP prez candidate who have no skin in the Democratic game are on board.

      At some point it becomes all too clear that Trump is a lawless president and he deserves to be impeached….

       

      Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

      • #223022

        jerry611
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        @jerry611

        Well sure…impeachment is and always has been more a political question and less a legal one.

        But, so far not a single Republican is agreeing with this impeachment. So it does look extremely partisan right now. And in reality, it is a waste of time. This is dead in the Senate.

        • #223645

          ravensong
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          @ravensong

          Is it a waste of time for a team of prosecutors to prosecute a pedophile, even if they know the judge and jury are corrupt friends of the criminal, and will let the pedo skate to go on and molest children again?

          Even if the perv skates, and is set free to go out and molest more kids, the prosecution does the job they were hired to do, and the facts of the case become public knowledge.

          And there is great value in the public knowing that an unconvicted pedophile is roaming the streets of our neighborhood.

          Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

          See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
          https://www.mfacalc.com/
          Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

      • #223638

        Earthartist
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        @earthartist

        So because you list all these people we should get in line?  How many of these same people supported russia gate? How many of these people looked away as the clinton machine stole the last election. I do not buy for fact anything anyone in the DC circuit says. I stopped doing that after RAYGUN.

        Man people are so willing to go along, and that is the issue. Maybe all these people are great, but when we as a nation use political corruption to oust political corruption we still have political corruption

        Earthartist

        • #223731

          ravensong
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          @ravensong

          Why would you have a problem with progressives citing intelligent, kind, and knowledgeable progressive leaders with integrity, who support and endorse our progressive platform and agenda?  Nobody is demanding that you get in line.

          If you don’t feel that the progressive leaders cited in the OP are honorable and worth supporting, then which political leaders/figures would you personally recommend that we support?

          Rand Paul?  Biden?  Trump?  Pelosi? McConnell? Gary Johnson?

          Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

          See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
          https://www.mfacalc.com/
          Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

          • #223789

            Earthartist
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            @earthartist

            Ravensong you can be a bit offensive when we don’t buy you beliefs. I said very clearly I like many of these people but I do not have to agree with everything they say or do. I find the idea that if you don’t agree with the progressives or democrats you are clearly a right winger this is obnoxious. I prefer to think for my self, it is certainly more dangerous because it threatens the powers that be. From leaders to lowly community organizations. Maybe it is a human trait, if you don’t do what the masses want lead by politicians or oligarchs, you get beat up, put down, thrown in jail, or told you are a putin lover or right winger. So be it

            I think for myself.

            Earthartist

            • #223871

              ravensong
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              @ravensong

              @earthartist

              No, you didn’t say very clearly that you like these people, you said

              “Maybe all these people are great”

              I could care less if you find me, or my opinions, offensive and obnoxious.

              All RWers do, as well.

              Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

              See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
              https://www.mfacalc.com/
              Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

        • #223807

          Ohio Barbarian
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          @ohiobarbarian

          @earthartist I don’t see anyone telling you you have to “get in line” just because every single progressive listed supports the impeachment of the criminal in the White House. There’s no conspiracy going on here about that, though there are strong opinions.

          We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

          With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

          • #223880

            Earthartist
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            @earthartist

            Raven song implied as much by the list of people she thought i might want to vote for.  but really her following comment was unworthy of JPR

             

            Earthartist

          • #223961

            Voltairine
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            @voltairine

            Supports the inquiry. Whether they all support impeachment we shall see when then vote comes.

            Aloha!

  • #223009

    Voltairine
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    • Total Posts: 1,318
    @voltairine

    As for Gabbard, yes she voted for the inquiry, but also clarified that her main motivation to do so was to make the process more open. It is far from certain that she will vote for impeachment, as that depends on the strength of evidence presented.

    Aloha!

  • #223019

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    Well, I don’t see the Democratic establishment impeaching Trump on that issue, or any of a number of other issues that are of greater societal consequence than extorting the Ukrainian president into saying he’s publicly investigating Joe Biden.

    I have no problem exploring an Article of Impeachment over Trump’s racist shit. I just don’t think the Vichy Dems will do it.

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

    • #223102

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      It deserves to be mentioned that the most vocal impeacher is herself an outspoken racist:

      Aloha!

      • #223106

        Charles
        Donor
        • Total Posts: 1,328
        @charles

        @voltairine

        You call AOC a racist while posting a video of Tucker Carlson as your source. Now there’s some irony…..

        Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

        • #223110

          Voltairine
          Member
          • Total Posts: 1,318
          @voltairine

          I don’t see the irony.

          Do you imply that opposing open borders is racism, and Sanders is therefore also a racist? If that is your argument, I disagree, that makes you only a nationalist bigot, not racist bigot. Sanders is racist supremacist only when it comes to maintaining state of Israel as a Jewish state.

          Don’t take me wrong, I’m not doing moral condemnation here, just reminding that we all have lot to do in educating ourselves and each other.

          Aloha!

          • #223634

            Ohio Barbarian
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            @ohiobarbarian

            @voltairine Mod hat on. Stop the right wing propaganda. This is a progressive site. AOC is not a racist and is not proposing open borders. No one running for federal office is proposing open borders. That’s a brazen lie propagated by the American right wing. AOC did say that it’s mostly white people who deny the reality of climate change in Carson’s clip, which happens to be true. She didn’t even address the border issues in it. And you use it to say she is a racist. That’s what white racists in this country do. Stop it. Mod hat off.

            She is, as Bernie is, for decriminalizing illegal border crossings and making it a civil offense. Among other benefits, that will stop separating children from their parents and throwing them in cages. It is not the same thing as open borders. If you want to see open borders, just drive from one country to another in the EU. Our border with Mexico has never been open and no one is proposing it.

            We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

            With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

            • #223647

              Ransom Stoddard
              Member
              • Total Posts: 79
              @ransomstoddard

              Mod hat on. Stop the right wing propaganda.

               

              You can run your board any way you want to.  Good bye.

               

              • #223732

                Voltairine
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                @voltairine

                Ruling class of moderators are class enemy.

                Aloha!

            • #223715

              Voltairine
              Member
              • Total Posts: 1,318
              @voltairine

              In the quote AOC says white people are producing the climate change, not “denying”.

              I fail to see what skin color has to do with CO2 emissions or generally unsustainable way of life. You could argue that eurocentric technological civilization is to blame, and you could have a rational discussion. As for the factuality of the claim, biggest producer of CO2 emissions is China. Would you consider it OK to say that “Yellow people are producing the climate change”? Honestly?

              In my view AOC is a shallow and lousy politician, and that is the very reason why shallow and lousy MSM loves her and gives her tons of publicity. It’s not RW propaganda to criticize AOC for saying ignorant and dumb shit. It’s not RW propaganda to criticize racism in all forms.

              Making illegal border crossing civil offense does not mean that you can’t get arrested and separated from your children.

              Aloha!

              • #223725

                Ohio Barbarian
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                @ohiobarbarian

                @voltairine My bad on the “deny” part. That doesn’t mean what she said is untrue though, at least not in the United States it’s not. It is also true that people of color get the shit end of the stick all the damned time when it comes to environmental issues. See Flint, Michigan.

                You find AOC a shallow politician. I find you a foreigner who is judging us and our politicians from afar through rose-tinted, anarcho-libertarian glasses that lead you to say stupid shit like AOC is a racist.

                We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

                With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

                • #223790

                  Voltairine
                  Member
                  • Total Posts: 1,318
                  @voltairine

                  My bad on the word “is”. E-prime banns that word for a good reason.

                  I’ve been critical of AOC from the very first sight, when I saw how MSM made her caricature spoke of socialism and slaughtered her inability to make a coherent argument. She’s being used as a tool of RW propaganda.

                  PS: please read carefully what Earthartist just wrote down thread.

                  Aloha!

            • #223717

              ravensong
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              @ravensong

              @ohiobarbarian

              “This is a progressive site”

              Thank you.

              Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

              See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
              https://www.mfacalc.com/
              Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

            • #224939

              Haikugal
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              @haikugal

              Thank you!

              The Dirty Fucking Hippies Were Right!

              We do what we can, what we must and we hope for the best while expecting nothing.~ Me

        • #223619

          ravensong
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          @ravensong

          Ironic, yes, but not at all surprising.

          Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

          See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
          https://www.mfacalc.com/
          Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

      • #223549

        JonLP
        Donor
        • Total Posts: 897
        @jonlp

        I seriously doubt AOC is racist. Actually she is on the receiving end of a lot of racism but I guess that is “identity politics” but it is only racism if it is coming from AOC. I have seen many racists such as Tucker Carlson call those calling out racism racists or “the real racists”.

        Tulsi Gabbard - "Not only are they saying that about me, they are basically sending this message out to every veteran in this country, every service member, every American, anyone watching at home fighting for peace and who was calling for an end to these regime change wars ... they are saying that you are also a Russian asset, that you are also a traitor to this country,"

        • #223558

          Voltairine
          Member
          • Total Posts: 1,318
          @voltairine

          Cool. What is the meaning of “is”? I get that. No irony meant, big philosophical question.

          Using racial rhetorics in judgemental manner is seriously unhelpful and uncool no matter from whom it comes. But we are currently stuck in system where nation state structures force working class to compete against each other for their crumbs from capitalist table, and economic nationalism leads to anti-immigration which leads to xenophobia and racism and the whole mess. Economic nationalism and anti-immigration of social democracy has no answer to this, and the “lefty” wokeness of urban white collar ruling class just adds insult to injury, with it’s constant projection of racism on poor underclasses who feed them and struggle to get a living wage and can’t and don’t want to speak ‘woke’.

          I’m tired of this shit, so I’m for open borders in the fullest sense, replacing nation state and class structures that create racism in the first place with global communist society.

          Aloha!

        • #223561

          game meat
          Member
          • Total Posts: 841
          @gamemeat

          Who says you have to pick one as acceptable? I don’t care for Tucker’s broad brushing of immigrants as the scourge of the west based on the actions of a few. Nor do I care for AOC blaming climate change on white people based on the actions of a few. I don’t consider blaming a societal or global problem on a single race to be productive.

    • #223548

      JonLP
      Donor
      • Total Posts: 897
      @jonlp

      I don’t think Third Way Dems will do much of anything like medicare for all. I’m on the side of the progressive congressmen & women. He is stoking this far right nationalism & hate crimes. He lies & pushes disinformation everyday. I live in Arizona — I was here when Trump said Mexicans are rapists and the crowd cheered. Once again I find myself agreeing with the progressive caucus over the consensus of JPR.

      Also Racism affects issues look at Stephen Miller and his immigration policies. Impeach him for his needless cruelty.

      Tulsi Gabbard - "Not only are they saying that about me, they are basically sending this message out to every veteran in this country, every service member, every American, anyone watching at home fighting for peace and who was calling for an end to these regime change wars ... they are saying that you are also a Russian asset, that you are also a traitor to this country,"

  • #223712

    Earthartist
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 347
    @earthartist

    This is an issue that I think we need to be very careful with.   I have watched it be used to disrupt in 2 different organizations.

    I was a chair in a state level Sierra club, the national staff person, I believe was taking money from some big energy or business source, We were trying to get a carbon tax amendment. He did not want us to vote to support it. We did and he voided it we went to national and they let him get away with it. His reasoning was the money would not all go to communities of color. He got all the big green to do the same. A few years later they pushed theirs and it failed. After this vote he proceeded to stop anything he did not like by using race. I finally left Sierra when he told our chapters we could not go to an oil industry expansion protest in their name, because their were not enough poc involved. I went it was lead by the tribes and it was very diverse, and was awesome!

    the next time this happened to me was very recent. I was the host of our XR group. When XR came to the US a small group of about 5 decided to add a 4th demand of Racial justice. That included a bunch of stuff including reparations, which frankly is a divisive issue and not one the an environmental organization is suited for. They gave groups that were just forming 5 days to agree to this demand. Now they kick you out if you do not agree with it. Our group fell apart over it. The reason is most of our group felt that this should be the focus and they attacked the one person in the group who didn’t. Her reasoning was that XR needed to be welcoming to all because we need everyone to make change, by putting the 4th demand in people will not join as they will see it as exclusive to the liberal left.  I was neutral but concerned because of passed experience. What shocked me was the absolute viciousness used against this woman. They kicked her out and most of the people who got stuff done left as well. They are now getting nothing done.

    It was put to the group several times that this should be part of the values of the group rather then a demand.

    One of the members wanted us to part company peacefully so he set up a mediator to let us talk. I talked about how one of the issues I had with the forth demand was it only had people POC as frontline victims of climate change. I am working on an art show about climate destruction, and frontline communities are often farmers, people in rural communities, in my case family and friends who came close or lost everything in fires, it is important not  tell these people they do not matter.  The guy who was part of the national start up, told me he didn’t give a shit about these communities, that they were white and they had privilege so he didn’t care. I was truly shocked and will never work with this guy again. The last thing they did at this so called meeting to bring peace between us was to kick my friend out!

    sorry,  that is long but I have spent the better part of my life working for social justice, marching with black lives matter, working with the tribes, and working with the homeless housing refugees and women how had to cross state lines to get female healthcare. Now I am watching white people treat white people like they are unworthy and it just blows my mind.  I strongly believe this is a tactic of the political class and we need to be very careful with it.  Farmers are who feed us, and yes they are mostly white, and conservative, they are also human and on the front lines of climate catastrophe. Racial justice needs to be something we do rather then say.

     

    Earthartist

    • #223978

      MistaP
      Member
      • Total Posts: 1,917
      @mistap

      I know also that Koch money started going into state NAACPs and they’d start things like attack home solar subsidies–they favor homeowners rather than renters, and that’s an ethnic disparity–and you don’t want to deepen that, now do you?

      • #223987

        Earthartist
        Donor
        • Total Posts: 347
        @earthartist

        I think that is a good point, I really believe they will do whatever they can to keep us blaming each other so when the shit hits the fan they will sneak out the side door with all the money. That means when ever possible infiltrate infiltrate, infiltrate!  We here at JPR have seen it happen in several places. Many if not most big greens are infiltrated. That’s why I like 350.org.  The national organization is not top down. We do what we want to do and we pay nothing to National unless we want to. National gives us leadership if we want it. Sierra was top down, and I know some states, worked great but not all.

        I was hoping that XR would be the same and in the UK and the rest of the world it is but not in the US it is Top down.

        I think we all need to agree to disagree, read and watch everything including tucker Carlson  and the right wing, and npr and msnbc. Because knowing what they are thinking is important. But also go watch Abby Martin  and counterpunch, grayzone and moon over Alabama.  Watching what they have done around the world will give you an idea of what they are doing to us.

        Hold your noise if that makes you feel better but understand that we are all fucked if we don’t come together and turn this ship and that will take more the dem progressives

        Earthartist

    • #224055

      game meat
      Member
      • Total Posts: 841
      @gamemeat

      Interesting real world examples. There’s been a noticeable push to repackage climate/environmental issues as primarily race and/or gender based recently (it’s all white people’s fault, women or poc primarily experience the negative impacts, etc.). Usually it’s based on a series of half truths if not outright bullshit.

      I couldn’t possibly think of a worse way to promote solving a global issue like this than by reducing it to just another battle in the culture wars. But that could very well be the whole point.

  • #223723

    xyzse
    Member
    • Total Posts: 939
    @xyzse

    I am skeptical about what they are impeaching Trump about.  There are other more notable issues Trump has done that broke the law.  Saying that, I also understand that Impeachment(as it has been practiced in America) is a wholly political affair, and not always in line with the law.  It is more public opinion than anything else that they are fighting for.

    In principle, I think they should go through the process.  Even if I think it is pointless, being used to mask worse evils, and a ploy to show that “Democrats” are doing something as they are screwing us over.

    Which is honestly why I am ambivalent about this whole thing, want them to keep going, but keep it away from media speculation.  These prognosticators are annoying as all hell.  So when I see superlatives like “Absolutely Devastating”, “Destroyed” and other terms of that nature, I am turned off, and respond to it the same way I do with Emails designated as “High Importance”.  I ignore them till I finish other more important things to me.

    But yes, I want that guy gone, and I think the Democratic Establishment are ensuring that Trump wins again, if they can’t get someone like Biden or Hillary in.  Which is why I find this whole exercise frustrating.

    • #224060

      Maedhros
      Member
      • Total Posts: 329
      @maedhros

      @xyzse:

      I’m of a similar mindset.  I would be happy to see Trump removed from office, but I’m ambivalent about the impeachment process because Democrats and their minions in the media have proven with the Russiagate narrative that they have little interest in the truth and are focused only on gaining power.  They have richly earned all the skepticism that comes their way.

      While I’m ambivalent about the impeachment process, I am absolutely fed up with being lectured, badgered, and berated for not swallowing the Democratic narrative hook, line, and sinker.

      His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
      but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
      and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
      more deadly than his right had been.

      • #224925

        xyzse
        Member
        • Total Posts: 939
        @xyzse

        Pretty Much.

        And Kim Iversen makes a great point.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hi10OgsTXo

        She says something like: “Nancy Pelosi knows that impeachment will go nowhere, and all it does will embolden the opposition.  Right now, Trump is outraising everybody while this impeachment is going.  Right now, with all the establishment candidates they have, they are failing.  You have to ask yourself, what exactly are they losing?  If they lose the elections to Trump, they have not exactly lost anything.  They are not in power, things are still the same.  There will just be more anger against Trump, that they will probably win even more the next election instead.

        However, if Sanders won, they lose their standing and benefits.  They do not want Sanders to win, since they actually lose something.”

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