In Arizona, school reopening sparks protest movement

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    • #338356
      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 14,824

      July 18 (Reuters) – Arizona third-grade teacher Stacy Brosius has been called a “liberal socialist Nazi” and a “whiner and complainer” for leading car-based protests to delay in-person schooling, but she says she’s doing it to save lives in a pandemic.

      Inspired by Black Lives Matter demonstrations, hundreds of Arizona teachers like Brosius are putting on red t-shirts they last wore in a 2018 strike and driving around cities in cars daubed with slogans like: “Remote learning won’t kill us but COVID can!”

      With “motor marches” spreading to other coronavirus-hit sunbelt states, including Florida, and counter demonstrators organizing “reopen” rallies, the fight over the new school year is fast becoming America’s new protest flashpoint.

      In Arizona, teachers want Republican Governor Doug Ducey to push the start of in-person school to at least early October after a beloved educator died of COVID-19 teaching summer school and statewide hospitalizations and deaths spiral.

      Full story here

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #338384
      HassleCat
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      • Total Posts: 3,622

      If most of the students stay home?

      • #338434
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,145

        aaargh

         

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

    • #338385
      NJCher
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 896

      wasting money and time. They’ll open, some teachers and students will die of Covid, and they’ll go back on online.

      That’s if they can get teachers to show up. That’s a big “if.”

      Why not cut to the chase and just go directly to online learning?

      They should take a year and teach students nothing but focusing skills.  Relaxation. Meditation. Poor focusing and concentration skills are why students in masks will never be successful. The American K-12 student has the focus of a flea.

       

    • #338415
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,824

      Either they’re too poor to afford the internet and needed equipment, or they have to work and the kids will go online to play video games. What forcing parents to go online actually does is to force them to home school, which is ironic, since most of the people calling for this now were once opposed to home-schooling.

      I’ve upset people before by saying that either the schools reopen or there must be UBI. Without UBI, not reopening the schools is a tragedy for millions of working class families. Without UBI and keeping the schools closed will just slow the spread of Covid until poor people are evicted from their homes and crammed together into shelters and tent cities. Then it will really spread.

      Without UBI, well, we’re looking at social and economic collapse, but no one in power even sees it. The bottom line is we need UBI.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #338421
      David the Gnome
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      @ohiobarbarian

      A UBI would help cushion the blow somewhat… But even if they do a National lockdown/shutdown right now, we don’t have the systems in place to enforce town or state quarantine.  There is little we can really do about people who refuse to wear masks under any circumstances, either.

      The time when we could have avoided the worst… has passed, I think.  Chaos is our new reality.  A type that will grow and consume and destroy until a balance with order is found again.  Maybe in the next life – but i think you will find Valhalla at the end of this one.

    • #338438
      ravensong
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,145

      Trump supporters are the largest collective of illiterate, semi-literate, poorly educated, provincial, gullible, and otherwise cognitively challenged group of people in the US.  What is particularly disturbing is not their complete ignorance of history, it is their Orwellian parroting of the Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Donald Trump, and last but not least, Kayleigh McAninny “no evidence whatsoever” version of history.

      Make no mistake, these are the present day American replica of the civilian Nazis in Germany who believed everything Goebbels told them, helped bring Hitler to power and joyfully kept him there, and applauded the persecution and violent oppression of the German Liberals, Socialists, Communists, LGBT, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews, etc.

      And after the horror was over, their excuse for their participation in this ultimate fascist horror and holocaust was

      “We Didn’t Know”.

      Trump supporters are for the most part pitiful, naive, gullible, and easily led tools because of their collective ignorance based cognitive challenges and lack of ability to think for themselves and thus determine fact from fiction, truth from lies, and ultimately right from wrong, according to the ethical standards of evolved human societies.  And yes, some are flat out warped sociopaths.  Collectively, they will abandon accepted moral and ethical standards of behavior when given license to do so by a hateful, stern, cruel, dishonest, misanthropic authoritarian “father figure” like Hitler, or Trump.

      At that point, the authoritarian abusive daddy figure uses them as mindless tools to carry out his twisted, megalomaniacal plan for domination, and the malicious stupid of his clueless sycophantic minions  becomes violent, the fascist horde is organized according to the desires of their chosen supreme authoriity fgure, and the oppression and killing of innocent people begins.

      I don’t hate them, because most of them, the ones who aren’t certifiable sociopaths (neo-nazi white supremacists, for example) are too ignorant and lacking in self awareness and common sense to understand what they are doing.  However, we must quarantine them from power, or the cost n destruction to humanity, and the planet, will be enormous.

      We cannot allow those who are not only ignorant of history, but also tragically, deliberately misinformed of history, to govern us, or have authority over us, in any way, shape or form.

      “Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana

      “People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors.” – Edmund Burke

      “Librul Soshlist Notsies!!!111!!!!”

      *sigh*

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #338441
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,377

      Huge plus one! Well said!

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #338443
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,377

      You would think Arizona, if anyone, would recognize the danger of reopening schools.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #338452
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,609

      @ravensong

      Of thinking that all Trump supporters are just stupid, evil clowns.  Some of them know damn well what they – and he – are doing.  Others do not, or have been so brainwashed by their preachers, tea party family members and friends, or what have you, that they long ago lost sight of reality and/or history.  I see a lot of people mocking them for being stupid – and some of them are indeed stupid.  Not all.  Example: the majority in my county are Trump supporters.  Many are business owners, many are WASPs.  Yep, some are complete idiots, no denying that.  Others are moved, instead, by greed, or by the belief (with which many were raised) that the apocalyptic war to end all wars is coming.  A holy war.  That’s not just in the bible belt – there are some in every state, I think.

      In my early twenties, I fell in with a very… charismatic man.  Had he not lived in the middle of no where, it is likely he would have ended up leading a cult – and I have not seen him in years, so perhaps he did.  He was extremely intelligent, in an academic and/or intellectual sense.  He was charismatic – he made a good play at being a “Good Christian”.  It was only as time went by that I learned who he really was.  A man who abused his own girlfriend physically, who assaulted other women, who threatened, who frequently told others he was “the chosen one”.  I never saw that side of him until he threatened to beat me at one point – and I realized he wasn’t kidding.  I could probably have handled that, but for a time I respected him, perhaps even loved him, as he was the only person in my neck of the woods (not family) who paid me any attention or offered any kind of friendship.  I was a strange, isolated, very shy child.

      The more I came to know him, the more he began to be more like himself (or the more I noticed).  At first it was something like a confederate belt buckle – then a flag, then telling me that playing records backwards put them in the devil’s tongue or some nonsense.  I think I knew that was nuts, even then, but for a while he was my only friend.  My Father… eventually helped break me away, eventually helped clear the brainwashing, but I will never forget it.  I was becoming a more and more unkind, unpleasant person and I did not even realize it.  I had become a bigot, a hypocrite of the worst kind.  I had abandoned my liberal roots and become much like you describe people in your post.  It came to a head one day when he told me “If you watched porn, you already have a minor demon inside you”.  I was high at the time (never anything more than marijuana – and a beer or two) and that shit freaked me right the hell out.

      Am I stupid?  By the classic definition of the word – no.  I was impressionable, gullible – and desperate to fill the void of blackness I felt – at the time I just couldn’t find anyone to relate to, except for a nutty middle aged man who thought the whole world was engaged in a spiritual war, and he was the one to lead the “good” side to victory.

      He was not such a good person.  Once I really understood that, I backed away.  I slowly got whatever brains I have back in order.  I slowly remembered what I had been taught by men of wisdom and compassion like my Father.  It was not easy, for months I fought an internal war – and I am not sure I ever fully recovered.  If nothing else, it gave me respect for the other side – that even someone who had previously believed himself to be such a good liberal fell under that spell.

      It is… in a way, faith.  It is certainty.  It is always having someone to tell you “this is wrong, this is right”.  An answer for every question – never mind that the one doing the answering was even crazier than me.  It gave comfort, for a time.

      I do not think most of those Trump supporters are truly that wicked.  They certainly don’t see themselves as such.  They believe they are doing what is right, they believe WE are evil and foolish.  The ideological extremes have grown far wider – even since that time in which I was being slowly transformed into someone very different.

      How to say this?  They are not just not stupid clowns – they are dangerous.  In the kind of certainty, the kind of absolutism many of them believe in, there is nothing you can say or do to reclaim them.  Not once they have reached a certain point.  My old mentor would be an excellent case in point.  How much I despise that young man I was, for so easily becoming his fawning protege.  Yet, I feel compassion for myself, too – I know why I did.

      We live in an ever more connected – yet ever more lonely place.  I still feel that loneliness, only now, perhaps, I have learned to manage it better.  At one point – had he asked me, I would probably have drunk poison… that is how much I had begun to believe in him.  I really should call my dad and thank him for saving me, again, now that I think of it.

    • #338461
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,824

      @ravensong Everything you say about them is true.

      Nazis are good only for killing.–My uncle, Private, United States Third Army, member of first platoon to reach Dachau.

      We cannot allow them to take power, and we won’t. Remember that most of them are cowards and will back down if confronted by a determined opposition. We got guns, too, if it comes to that.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #338462
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,824

      @davidthegnome I know many who don’t have that particular good fortune. I’m not one of them, but I know a lot of them, and have met a lot of terrible fathers face-to-face over the years.

      The latter are always hurt and angry when I simply cannot respect them. My father never did the things they did to their children, neither did I or your dad. Neither did you. Trust me on that.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #338471
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,609

      @ohiobarbarian

      He has his flaws, like anyone else, but overall is a good human being.  He and I often do not see eye to eye on politics… he is one of those “vote blue no matter who” democrats.  Now I do not know if I am a cynic, or if perhaps I have just read too much and paid too much attention to what politicians do to really have any faith in them anymore.  My Father really does, he thinks Joe Biden and a democrat Senate are a certainty that will… uh, save the Country, or something.  Or perhaps that is simply what he tells me because he knows I struggle with depression.  If it is the latter, he should know better than that.

      Either way, I love the man.  An impossible, extreme optimist.

    • #338479
      beemerphill
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      • Total Posts: 73

      Your post was well worth reading. We have all gone through an “impressionist” stage in our lives. You were fortunate to have seen what was happening before you got in too deep. Many people don’t figure it out until they are in too far to return. And you are very right, not many Trump supporters are actually stupid. They look around them and Trump is the only one who might lead this Nation the way that they want. They know that he is not a good man and that he is screwing up more than he should. However, when they look at what the alternatives were when he was elected they thought that he was the only choice that was even close to what they wanted. The Democrats are not bright enough to run a candidate that appeals to the majority. Unless the Democrats figure out a way to sneak a dark horse populist candidate in at their convention we will have another election with two candidates that most of us don’t want. Between the Virus and the Election, it looks as if 2020 will not go down as one of our best years.

      beemerphill

    • #338482
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,609

      @beemerphill

      The man I mentioned certainly knew how to pick his proteges.  I was then in the most vulnerable, lonely, saddest time of my life – knocking on wood.  Absurdly, I still feel this little bit of gratitude to him for giving me companionship when I needed it most.  I was… not well, mentally speaking – even more not well than now, it made it hard for me to relate to others – or for them to relate to me.  I was so shy and nervous around people that I rarely found the courage to talk much – if I did, it was with careful analysis of everything i said. “Pass the salt” is easy, but… “Hi, my name is David and I’m a friggin’ weirdo” well, it would have been the truth, but I doubt it would have made me many friends.

      It is easy to fall victim to that kind of thing, because it (or he, in this case) always has an answer to any question.  When you let someone else do your thinking for you, there is no need to ask questions, no need to worry.  They’ve got it all figured out – and God tells them everything they need to know.  Sigh.

      I did call my dad and thank him.  He reminded me to live in the present, do what I can in my own life, enjoy what I have in the now, because it could well be gone tomorrow.  I wish I shared his optimism, even if it isn’t well founded (IMO), I would probably be a better man if I did.

    • #338530
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 873

      there are some who will send in their children to be sacrificed for Trump. Just look at all the people in cults who allow the cult leaders to rape their children without a 2nd thought. Look at all the people who have let priest and pastors abuse their children.

       

    • #338546
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,824

      @fasttense And kids won’t keep masks on. Especially little kids. So yeah, it’ll spread. Our government completely failed us by not doing what other countries did and providing some form of UBI. They will continue to fail us.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #338565
      Bluesuedeshoes
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 563

      They might try to reopen schools here.

      I am ready to rumble.

      Greg Lapalina

    • #338584
      beemerphill
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 73

      “He reminded me to live in the present, do what I can in my own life, enjoy what I have in the now, because it could well be gone tomorrow.”

      This is excellent advice for everyone at any time. If a few more of us would follow this simple advice we would all be much happier.

      And there are some who will send their kids to school because that is the only real choice they have.”

      In this day and age, there are many who have no choice in the matter. Their children can go to school or they can quit their job. The realities of our economy and our way of life are such that most parents must work or they will not be able to support their families.  Sending children to school will increase the cases. I can think of no practical solution to this problem. It is my opinion that we will never return to the life that we knew before 2020. This virus mutates quickly and it takes long lead times for our medical community to find cures and vaccines to fight it. There are those who will never voluntarily wear a mask or accept a vaccine. This is their right in a free country, but they are condemning themselves (and others) to needless suffering.  Again, I have no easy fix for this. This will take greater minds than mine working together to find answers to these problems. The toxic political environment that we are now living in will hinder any attempts to arrive at a workable solution.

       

      beemerphill

    • #339292
      ravensong
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,145

      working to stop the RW fascist stupid from further polluting and destroying everything good about our world.

      It’s a dirty, thankless, maybe hopeless job, but somebody’s gotta do it.  I couldn’t enjoy the good things left in the present if I didn’t at least try to preserve them for future generations, like my kids and grandkids.

      Damn the torpedoes, blahblahblah.

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

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