In Call for Unity, Ocasio-Cortez Says She'll Back Biden If He's the Democratic Nominee

Homepage | Forums | Main Forums | General Discussion | In Call for Unity, Ocasio-Cortez Says She'll Back Biden If He's the Democratic Nominee

Viewing 29 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #281577
      Stockholmer
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 500

      “November, this is more important than all of us.”

      https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/03/ocasio-cortez-biden/

      Bernie Sanders supporters appear to be settling into a familiar fog of conspiratorial anger in the wake of a disappointing Super Tuesday this week, with many refusing to back Joe Biden if the former vice president ends up being the Democratic nominee. (If you’re interested in defeating Donald Trump this fall, that could be a pretty problematic stance! But hey, we’ve been here before.)

      So, amid that noise, Sanders’ top surrogate, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, is once again urging Democrats to unite and back whoever the party’s nominee might be—even if it’s not Sanders.

      “A lot of people are saying now that ‘Look we’re basically down to two candidates,’ and everyone’s worried if one wins, will the supporters of the other sort of agree to support the Democratic nominee,” Seth Meyers said on Late Night. “Is it safe to assume that you will support Joe Biden if he is the nominee?”

      “Yeah, I’ve said throughout this entire process that what is so important is that we ultimately unite behind who that Democratic nominee is,” she continued, noting that she’s also witnessed the same refusal from Biden’s camp. “I’ve been concerned by some folks that say if Bernie’s the nominee, they won’t support him and the other way around.”

      “Right now, November, this is more important than all of us and we really need to make sure that we defeat Donald Trump at the polls.”

      snip

    • #281578
      xyzse
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,462

      Many are not in the same sort of constraint.

    • #281583
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,320

      She is in a congressional district that the democrats may eliminate.  She probably does not want to give them more fodder.

    • #281586
      Passionate Progressive
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,142

      I see an entrenched establishment in the compost of the Democratic Party that Joe Biden’s candidacy if not election will only perpetuate as a greater threat than Trump.

      The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

    • #281593
      daleanime
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 560

      and this is one.

      When the going gets tough, the tough help each other.

    • #281594
      Bill Haywood
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 138

      “We are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. We have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy, and not of retreating into the neighbouring marsh, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road! Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!”

      –Vladimir Lenin

    • #281598
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,266

      She’s very young.  Maybe over time, she’ll learn that you can’t trust their promises, ‘do this for me and I’ll do this for you, I promise.’

      Or maybe she’ll trod the well-worn path leading to the place where people like Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren dwell.  Time will tell.

      Regardless, I will not support Biden if he’s the nominee.  (I still like her.)

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #281606
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,605

      Good.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #281610
      incognito
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,698
    • #281613
      The Red Menace
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,080

      hell I completely expect Bernie to do exactly the same if that’s the case.

      it won’t matter at that point of course, but no one expects the two of them to turn on the party (except perhaps the people who see Sanders as a Judas and AOC as uppity)

    • #281617
      Carolina
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 181

      Here is where we part company! No way, not ever will I unify behind Bye/Buy-done. The deceitful, corrupt Democratic Party needs to be destroyed, and the corporate Dems and their media lapdogs need to be proven wrong again about who is electable. This ‘blue no matter who’ bullshit is what gave us Trump in the first place. Besides, considering the legacy of the Obama-Biden years, I don’t see how voting for the alleged lesser evil is better. It is still evil and actually may be worse since it’s so duplicitous. The 2016 republicans did cheat in their primary process and they don’t fill their campaign speeches with sweet NOTHINGS. You know they are for war and tax cuts. Period.

    • #281624
      FunnyGirl
      Member
      • Total Posts: 52

      Make Biden surrogates say the same for Bernie. Boom, she beat them to the punch.

    • #281625
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,893

      @stockholmer

      Hi sh,

      Yep – this is where AOC and I part company.  Voting for the lessor of two evils is a failed strategy as proven by American history since FDR.  Should Biden be nominated, my vote will reflexively go to a third-party candidate.  AOC and the DNC, DLC, Third Way, DSCC, DCCC can go to hell.

      TAT

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
      - George Orwell

      "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
      Rather than truth as the authority."
      - Gerald Massey

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

    • #281630
      Bill Haywood
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 138

      We’ve been hearing that three-dimensional chess strategy shit for decades now. One must wonder to what actual result? It’s long past the time to fight against this herding back into the arms of the Democratic Party. The place where social movements go to die and become impotent and irrelevant.

      • #281639
        Stockholmer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 500
      • #281687
        game meat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,216

        3d, 4d, chess arguments are always, without exception, rationalizations. It’s a form of denial, of not wanting to believe what is blatantly obvious, so you construct these wild theories that what is happening isn’t what is really happening, but an act of strategic genius that is just beyond your intellectual capabilities.

        That being said, AOC is a Democrat, so there’s no reason to think she wouldn’t endorse whoever the democrat nominee happens to be. I would have been very impressed if she declined to endorse Biden because it would have been going above and beyond to prove a point and stick to what you purport to believe, but I can only hold it against her so much for that reason. People do have to pick their battles. Odds are, if she stays around long enough, she’ll either get defeated by the party or shapeshift into another Pelosi.

        • #281938
          NJCher
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 800

          Because of the population decline in NYS, they are going to have to eliminate at least one district, maybe more. Well, guess whose they want to eliminate?  Surprise surprise:  AOC.

          However, I do not think she is in danger of disappearing. She can run in some other districts and beat out another useless corporate Dem, which NYS and NJ are loaded with.

    • #281638
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,359

      I am going to vote third party.  Further, I will never again support the Democrat party in any manner – with the possible exception bei g some great change of priorities in the future – unlikely.

      Frankly, they cheated, they schemed, they rigged the vote for a second time.  They are beyond fixing at this point.  Perhaps someone with some courage will form a new progressive party.

    • #281640
      RufusTFirefly
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,290

      Remember when she endorsed Pelosi as Speaker?

      Remember when Bernie scolded Zephyr Teachout for calling ByeDone “corrupt”?

      That’s politics, folks.

      I’m still a huge AOC fan, even though I won’t be following her on this particular recommendation.

    • #281677
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,846

      ..doesn’t mean it’s mine.

      And it won’t be.Bernie or Bust.

    • #281680
      draa
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 116

      The risk is just too great to chance losing to anyone without a D by their name. Vote blue no matter who. Fear the unknown. Blah, blah, blah. It’s nauseating listening to that crap.

      We can’t win a Revolution by helping our enemy, but from the looks of it the Revolution was a joke anyway because it relyed on the establishment to let it win. We are playing on their ground and with their rules. You won’t ever win that way.

      I think our movement will continue to fail as long as we trust the establishment. Start a 3rd party and build our own network and I think we’ll have a chance soon enough.

       

       

      George Orwell was right.

      I do not believe that the hungry man should be treated as subversive for expressing his suffering - Óscar Arias

      Thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit - Bertrand Russell

    • #281694
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,905

      Same goes if Bernie says vote for Biden.  Nope.  Never.  No Vichy Dems, no senile nasty corporatists, no to whatever is lurking behind Biden.  The DNC can shove their “unity”; those fuckers have been cheating and lying and smearing Bernie AND his agenda, and wish to inflict their neocon neoliberal war and austerity on us.  Fuck them.

    • #281712
      jerry611
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 864

      DNC probably threatening to redraw her district if she doesn’t play ball.

    • #281749
      RobertFromNC
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 91

      I am more open to the Third Party idea unlike last time. With that being said, this does not give me much confidence that a third party movement could succeed right now. I think that it is going to take the vast majority of Bernie, Tulsi, and former Warren voters, as well as getting elected officials at all levels of government, including congress(even Nick Brana has admitted this) to join the effort for a third party to be successful.

      Third Party movements that have been successful in the past(or at least became relevant enough to be a part of the national conversation and able to affect change, despite not winning the presidency or congressional majorities) have been led by politicians already in government with large movements behind them(for example the Bull-Moose Party under Teddy Roosevelt or the Reform Party under Perot). We do have the movement, although I am not sure if we would all be on same page yet with regards to a third party, and I don’t see anyone already in office with a large national following to lead the way. If there was going to be anyone willing to do it, it would have been someone who is an outsider recently elected to congress like AOC.

    • #281806
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,339

      She could have started by deflecting from the question, and immediately started talking up how the Sanders campaign was going to do really well in a number of upcoming states. She either didn’t know how to pull off what they teach in Politics 101, didn’t particularly care to, or eagerly embraced the opportunity to show the establishment that she’d play ball. Her career in Congress will really be on the line if Bernie doesn’t become a major influence on the party.

      If, in the redistricting, they carve away from AOC the area most supportive of her, then she might have to win over lots of the blue collar workers, and others, who were pissed off at the loss of the deal with Amazon.

      https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2019/02/18/bill-de-blasio-aoc-didnt-understand-amazon-dealat-all-n2541634

    • #281858
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 775

      Since Bernie gave the promise to do the same,

      she will follow his example. If there should be

      a sufficiently large movement towards a third

      party they both may switch, but there is up to

      now no evidence for that to happen.

    • #281914
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,972

      Bernie Sanders has been pushing unity as much as any candidate.

    • #281915
      Jim Lane
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 413

      Last cycle, it was something like 90% of those who voted for Bernie in the primaries then voted for Clinton in the general.

      This time, with the horrible record of four years of Trump to examine, the reasons for that choice are even more compelling.  Despite all the mentions in this thread of a third party, I venture the prediction that the Green Party’s share of the popular vote for President will be lower this year than it was in 2016 (just as that share crashed from 2000 to 2004 after four years of Bush).

      This doesn’t prove that the people who choose the third-party route are wrong.  One has to wonder, however, at what point third-party enthusiasts will look at the history of the Green Party and other such efforts, and will conclude that that strategy has been a failure.

      • #281976
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,905

        even a little bit progressive, is a failure.   It is pointless.  Wanting a third party is one thing.  Not wanting to enable the Democratic Party in its rightward slide is quite another. Be a mistake to conflate the two for the purpose of marginalizing.   If the DNC is so sure that they will get the votes they need for Joe Biden, I am curious as to why the vote for the blue stuff is being dragged out again.  Kind of funny really – Biden can win!!! If you all vote for him!!!!!

        Oh, and voting Green does not necessarily mean that anyone thinks the Greens will win squat – it is not voting for a Vichy Dem or the Democratic Party that is the point, so being dismissive of the Green Party’s chances misses the mark completely.  Why would a progressive vote for a candidate that actually jeers at progressives?  Kind of a logic gap there.

        In any event, no vote for Biden or any other Vichy Dem.  Biden actually has an egregiously worse record than Trump can ever dream of.  You should look that up.  There are threads here about that.  Nice lists of Biden’s deeds.  Disgusting, really.  Bad as the Clintons.  Biden does not mean to do well by any of us.  And he is pretty open about that.  The only issue the DNC has – is Trump.  The platform is now meaningless.  And the vote for the blue screeds are going to get pretty tedious.  And eight more years of corporate Dem rule, with their eager cooperation with the GOP – really, that makes no sense to anyone except the DNC.


        @jimlane

        • #282046
          Jim Lane
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 413

          The best prediction about a possible Biden administration is that it would look very much like the Bill Clinton and Obama administrations.  Both of those administrations were (a) worse than what they could and should have been, but (b) far, far better than what Trump has been.

          And if Trump, having survived impeachment, gets re-elected and no longer has to worry even a little about votes, his second term is likely to be even worse than his first.

          You write: “Biden actually has an egregiously worse record than Trump can ever dream of. You should look that up. There are threads here about that.”  There are also at least a couple posts here about Trump.  You might consider looking them up.  Well, actually, putting aside such cheap condescension, my guess is that you’ve read them and you just don’t agree.  The reasons are obvious to me, to Bernie, to AOC, to people like Noam Chomsky, and, as I pointed out, to the overwhelming majority of Bernie’s supporters — but if it’s still not clear to you, I won’t bother repeating the arguments.

          I’m referring to the world outside the little bubble of JPR and the Green Party (and maybe a new party, courtesy of Nick Brana, because obviously what American politics desperately needs is another totally futile minor party on the left).  If Biden is the nominee, there will presumably be a poll on JPR, which will show almost no support for Biden.  So, congratulations in advance on your point of view prevailing here.

          Just curious, do you have a comment on the Greens’ prospects this year?  If you aren’t impressed by any of the horrible things Trump has done, you might consider that he’s probably driven some people away from voting Green.  The Greens’ two best showings (in percentage of the popular vote for President) were in 2000, after eight years of Clinton, and in 2016, after eight years of Obama.  By contrast, with an actual Republican in the White House, many voters conclude that there are real differences between the two major parties.  They vote Democratic even if feeling ideologically closer to the Greens.  That’s why the Green vote crashed from 2000 to 2004.  I see the same thing happening this year.  You don’t have to agree with such voters to recognize that there are many of them.

          • #282300
            closeupready
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,266

            Trump’s support for anything will ensure (and mandate) opposition.  It won’t be genuine opposition, for sure, but it will at least be something.

            Do the math on that.  Biden will be far worse for the elderly, minorities, working people, the sick, and everyone else.


            @jimlane

            The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

            • #282365
              Jim Lane
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 413

              The answer is: $1.7 trillion.  That’s the approximate amount that the Trump tax cuts handed to the oligarchs.

              Bill Clinton didn’t do that.  Barack Obama didn’t do that.  The Democrats in Congress opposed the bill.  It’s a clear difference between the parties.

              This week we had the report of Republican-controlled Texas closing hundreds of polling places in a way that disproportionately affected nonwhite voters.  Under the Voting Rights Act, such a change would once have required preclearance from the Department of Justice, which often blocked such changes.  That’s no longer the case, however, because of a 5-4 Supreme Court decision that gutted the Voting Rights Act.  The five in the majority were all Republican appointees.  The four Justices appointed by the despised right-wing corporatist Vichy Dems (Clinton and Obama) all dissented.

              And that’s just one example from just this week’s news on one issue (effect on minorities).

              In fact, if you went back to January 20, 2017, it would be hard to find a single weekday since then that didn’t see the Trump administration doing something worse than anything the Democrats have done, be it a lobbyist appointed to oversee his own industry, or another attack on the social safety net, or an environmental protection rescinded, etc.

              People who think that Biden is worse than Bernie (he certainly is) can get so fixated on that difference that they can’t see how Trump is so much worse than Biden.


              @closeupready

          • #282393
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 13,671

            @jimlane Your lesser of two evils arguments is now mired in a swamp that millions of people like you voted to create over the decades. Clinton’s not as bad as Poppy Bush. Gore and Kerry aren’t as bad as Dubya. Obama’s not as bad as Romney. Hillary and Biden aren’t as bad as Trump.

            Each time, things have become worse. Clinton led to Bush, who was worse than his dad and Reagan. Obama led to Trump, who is worse than Bush in some ways and better in others. At least Trump hasn’t gotten us into any new wars; the first President not to do so since Jimmy Carter. How’s that for an inconvenient truth?

            Whether or not the Green Party can actually win is irrelevant. What is relevant is that our political system has become so corrupt that necessary change through it has become impossible. People like you who have voted for what you didn’t want and gotten it have given us a failed system that is incapable of making the changes necessary to insure our survival.

            Only direct action, such as strikes, is available to the working classes of this country now. Sooner or later, they will resort to such things, and there will either be necessary reform or eventually the ruling class will face the wrath of its own military’s rank and file. That is what is coming if Bernie isn’t elected, no matter who wins in November, making who actually wins less important in the long view.

            As for Trump, if you insist on the lesser of two evils argument, I respond by saying that Biden will almost certainly get us into new wars, whereas Trump may not. I admit that this is like the Socialists in 1916 debating over whether to back Woodrow Wilson, who at least had kept us out of World War I for over two years; of course we know what happened the April after the election.

            Hard to say what Trump will do on that front, but I know Biden will get us into another war or three, just like Obama did. I also know that Biden has harmed myself and my family far more than has Trump. It was Biden who made discharging student loan debt impossible. It was Biden who cost me thousands of dollars with his bankruptcy reform. I take that personally. I will never vote for that son of a bitch, do you understand that?  That’s not going to happen. It is not a possibility. Also understand that there are literally millions of people in this country who will never vote for Biden because of what his policies did to them and their families and communities. That is political reality.

            The Democratic Party has betrayed me for the last time. After this primary, the odds of me voting for any Democrat on any level are slim to none, for I have come to the conclusion that this political party must be destroyed, and the sooner the better. It doesn’t matter to me what replaces it at this point, if this political system even survives long enough for an electoral replacement to become manifest.

            As for this year, the choice is yours. Do you wish for me to vote for a third party candidate, to leave the presidential line blank, or to vote for Trump? Well, let’s keep it real. There’s no way I’d ever vote for Trump, either.

            So. Your choices are third party candidate or blank spot on the ballot. Which one of those is the lesser evil for you?

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

            • #282637
              Jim Lane
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 413

              @ohiobarbarian   You ask: “So. Your choices are third party candidate or blank spot on the ballot. Which one of those is the lesser evil for you?”

              Barring an unprecedented earthquake in American politics, you’ll have three choices in the presidential election: Vote for the Democratic nominee; Vote for the Republican nominee; Other.

              That last category includes staying home, showing up but leaving all lines blank, voting downticket races but leaving the presidential line blank, voting for a minor-party or independent candidate, and attempting to write someone in.  On the key question being resolved, namely who gets to be President, all of those choices have the same effect, namely none whatsoever.  I’m not in a position to assess the minor differences among the various ways of sitting out the main event.

              So here’s my advice: If you drive to the polls, please drive safely.  If you walk, please look both ways before crossing the street.  I often disagree with you but I think you’re a valuable contributor to this forum, and I want you to keep posting after Election Day.

        • #282047
          Cold Mountain Trail
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 8,442

          If things are as dire as widely reported — e.g. climate change, refugee crisis, risk of pandemics, war on all fronts, unemployment, no future for the young —

          wtf good is more years of ‘incrementalism’ which leaves the architects of disaster in power?

      • #282281
        Babel 17
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,339

        Imo a lot of voters won’t give their countenance to any war party, and the Democratic party is a party of war. Though they do stand up for the right of anyone, and not just straight white cisgendered men from wealthy backgrounds, to take part in their wars. No, they were all for everyone being involved in their destructive pathology that ended up bringing a slave market to Libya, and flooding Europe with desperate refugees from once prosperous towns, and using the armories of Libya to flood Syria with the Democratic administration’s terrorist helpers to bring down the Syrian government for daring to not play ball with the oil industry’s plans for running a gas pipeline through it.

        We might not be talking millions and millions of voters, but certainly, imo, a lot of the swing voters in the swing states see right through Biden’s laughable (demented?) claims of having not supported the Iraq War. They know the record of the Obama-Biden Presidency, as Joe likes to call it, and they know that Joe is a globalist who sees China as a golden goose for his family and friends. And they know that globalists tend to blow up countries that happen to contain Brown people.

        For a lot of voters, Brown lives matter, and they won’t pretend that more of them aren’t likely to die under Biden then under Sanders, or even Trump. On election day, that’s what they’ll be considering, and of that percentage of voters, a lot of them, imo, just won’t vote for the man who is more likely to have the most blood on his hands.

         

    • #281958
      Fugitive Birdie
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 237

      The DNC has gone all in on a candidate with strong signs of dementia and a terrible voting record.

      After we see a lot more rigging, gaslighting, and a candidate who goes completely into hiding except to put on some terrible debate performances, we, along with Bernie and AOC, can reassess.

      If all the stars line up it could be time to start a third party in June.  Nick Brana is already preparing a People’s Party convention in Milwaukee.

      Otherwise we might have to wait until after November and another chorus of Bernie Would Have Won to start a new party.

      Don’t underestimate our power, but at the same time we have to hold our cards close to our chests.

      As I have repeatedly said we have to prove to many millions of people that the Democratic Party is irredeemable and will never represent the interests of working people.  We also need to make significant inroads with independants and even Republicans.

    • #281964
      Piperay
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 216

      Dems are out to get her, she has to save herself to be of benefit  to the rest of us.

    • #281966
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,442

      “Bernie Sanders supporters appear to be settling into a familiar fog of conspiratorial anger in the wake of a disappointing Super Tuesday this week…”

      including the op

    • #282033
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,554

      She is doing what she has to do to remain in the good graces of the democrat leaders, even though they will eventually stick the knife in her back as sure as the sun rises. She is wrong about one point though, backing the man who has been wrong about almost everything the last 40 years isn’t the most important thing we have to do over anything else. Maybe for your party it is, but not for Independents, since I can still vote for the Green party candidate, who’s positions align much more closely to my own.  But good luck to AOC against Drumpf, but you will be adding Joe Biden’s name along side of Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, and Hillary as the latest member in The Great Centrist Presidents That Never Were Club.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #282283
      Populist Prole
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 431

      But no. Just no.

Viewing 29 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.