In impeachment document, Democrats say Trump endangers security, Trump denies

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  • #253193

    Ohio Barbarian
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    • Total Posts: 9,880
    @ohiobarbarian

    I wasn’t going to post anything about the impeachment trial, for I think it is just a waste of time at this point. It’s like watching a rerun of a football game when you already know who won. But this Democratic argument that Trump was endangering national security by withholding aid to Ukraine to bully them into investigating the Bidens is so ridiculous I had to say something.

    This is from Reuters:

    WASHINGTON/PALM BEACH, Fla. (Reuters) – Democratic U.S. lawmakers leading the impeachment case against Republican President Donald Trump said on Saturday the president must be removed from office to protect national security and preserve the country’s system of government.

    (snip)

    “The Senate should convict and remove President Trump to avoid serious and long term damage to our democratic values and the nation’s security,” the lawmakers said, for the first time formally calling for the Senate to convict the president and remove him from office.

    Did Trump break the law by withholding aid to Ukraine? Yes, he clearly did. Does that rise to the level of removing him from office? I think reasonable people can disagree over that one. I personally don’t think it does because lots of presidents have pressured foreign leaders to do certain things and Trump, while sleazier, really isn’t doing anything radically different. The things I do think Trump deserves to be removed over are not being used by the Democrats because they want to be able to do the same things when they are in power. I’ve talked about them before, and won’t do so here.

    As for endangering America’s security, the article doesn’t say just how Trump did that, because he didn’t. How does withholding military aid to Ukraine harm the United States? In fact, I can make a good argument that sending military aid to Ukraine endangers our national security by potentially starting a war with Russia. But withholding it? How? If Russia flat-out conquered Ukraine, it wouldn’t jeopardize America at all.

    This strikes me as pure McCarthyist demagoguery by the Democratic House Managers.

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #253205

    NJCher
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 478
    @njcher

    I personally don’t think it does because lots of presidents have pressured foreign leaders to do certain things and Trump, while sleazier, really isn’t doing anything radically different.

    ++Can you provide an example or two of how any of our presidents have pressured foreign leaders to “do things?” I think in this case it has to have something to do with our domestic politics and in particular, influencing one of our elections.

    Trump routinely violates security protocol. He did this right before he had Suleimani assassinated. He was running around Mar-a-Lago telling people something big was coming down the pike and he even let his companions listen to the conversation with the assassins right before Suleimani was killed.

    I find this grotesque and pathetic. The man is obviously so ego deficient that he needs to feel like a big shot to others. He uses his office to do this.

    He needs to go.

    • #253323

      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 9,880
      @ohiobarbarian

      @njcher LBJ cut off some aid to the UK once when Harold Wilson refused to support him, even verbally, on Vietnam. There was money allocated by Congress there as well. That one ended better–LBJ released the aid after Princess Margaret flattered him at a White House dinner, and all was forgiven and forgotten.

      That’s just off the top of my head. I agree Trump should have been gone already, but Pence doesn’t have the gumption to invoke the 25th Amendment and the House only moved after it came out that Trump was trying to target Joe Biden. I’m not concerned about foreign interference in our elections when that interference pales in comparison to corporate money in politics. Relatively speaking, it’s insignificant and can be taken care of after we clean up our own All-American corruption.

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #253308

    David the Gnome
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    @davidthegnome

    @ohiobarbarian

    They are counting on the public being too ignorant to pick up on that.

    Nine times out of ten,when they use the words “national security” they are lying their asses off.

    Plenty to impeach Trump over – but, yeah, this is bull shit.

  • #253341

    MizzGrizz
    Member
    • Total Posts: 1,035
    @mizzgrizz

    Did Trump do something wrong?Clearly yes,but Joe Biden did the same exact thing and nobody’s hollering for his head.Which right away tells you this is theater.

    Did either  Trump or  Biden endanger national security by withholding military aid till they got what they wanted?Clearly,no.

    Should Trump have been impeached over this?Again,no,unless Biden were somehow similarly and retroactively called to account.Otherwise,perhaps a vote of censure could have done just as well.

     

    • #253352

      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 9,880
      @ohiobarbarian

      @mizzgrizz A censure would have done every bit as much good as this farce that Pelosi and the Vichy Dems foisted upon us, and would have had the additional benefit of letting Bernie campaign. I am convinced Pelosi delayed the trial for the sole purpose of interfering in the primary, for she knows just as much as you or I that this Senate trial will result in nothing but breathless media coverage that most people won’t even bother to watch.

      It’s not only kabuki theater, but is bad kabuki theater at that.

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

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