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Home Main Forums General Discussion It's not About Purity

  • davidthegnome (2565 posts)
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    It's not About Purity

    Some people at a place that shall remain nameless have been making statements even more idiotic than usual.  Such as that Stein voters, JPR members and so on – are responsible for Trump’s withdrawal from the Iran deal.  The argument is based upon their (deeply flawed) logic that, had Stein not run, Clinton would have won.  In addition, it is believed that we only voted for/like Bernie or Stein because they are without flaw.  This is not so.

    See, we voted for Stein and/or Bernie for the simple reason that they are decent human beings.  There are certain things that decent human beings do not do.  They do not support the ongoing destruction of our social safety net which helps the most vulnerable of our citizens (see Welfare reform, comments by both Clinton’s during Bill’s Presidency).  They do not promote, nor even flirt with Predator theory (a simple google search will offer plenty of material on this).  They do not receive hundreds of thousands of dollars for speaking for the very Wall Street Criminals and corporations that lobby to pollute our environment, deregulate the economy, purchase politicians – and corrupt our laws.

    They do not support declaring war on Nations that can neither defend themselves nor seriously threaten our Nation.  They do not promote disastrous trade deals that would cost yet more American jobs.  They do not lie about dodging sniper fire.  They do not whine about being “broke” when they have never had to experience financial hardship.

    Rather, they, as a whole, support the environment.  They advance and champion the needs of the poor and vulnerable.  They denounce war, acts of war – and even economic sanctions that do NOT harm the oligarchs of other Nations, but starve and kill the poor.  They promote good (and much needed) legislation to increase the minimum wage, to offer guaranteed, universal healthcare, to defund the monster that the Military Industrial Complex has become.  To fund our schools, to pay our teachers, to fight the corrupt oligarchy that has grown so powerful within America.

    They don’t need super PACs or hundreds of millions of dollars from corporations to do so.  Bernie Sanders proved that.  If given the chance to speak, they will draw thousands – thousands more than the establishment politicians (such as Clinton) draw.  They draw these thousands because they are decent human beings with decent ideas that other decent human beings can get behind.

    As human beings – they are flawed as are we all – flawed – but not bought and paid for by wealthy interests/lobbyists for various corporations.  They do not support the millionaire and the billionaire – but those who need support, who’s children are hungry, who cannot, on their own, survive without help.  They promote building bridges and roads, upgrading our decayed infrastructure.

    They even advocate for peace among the Nations of the world – which is in itself advocating for saving millions from starvation, severe poverty, death and dismemberment.  This has not been – and never will be accomplished through sanctions which target the vulnerable.

    They do not kick people when they are down.  They do not support corrupt tyrants either here or abroad.

    Hate… begets hate.  Throughout history this has been demonstrated.  Contempt for the poor is the typical sentiment of the wealthy elite, only rarely have there been exceptions to this rule – such as during the time of FDR.

    To our former allies at places which shall not be named – What are you waiting for?  When will you throw your lot in with the poor, with environmentalists, with public education, with peace?  When will you, rather than turning your backs on the desperate, turn your backs upon the wealthy oligarchs, corporate owned media and backstabbing politicians?  When will you come to understand that those who take millions from corporations are expected to (and do) act in the favor of these corporations?

    There is no more real middle of the road.  There are so few democrats who can honestly be called “centrist” that the very term is absurd.  There are, for the most part, two right wings.  Both lie, cheat, steal and destroy – but only one side pretends to favor you or I.  Pretends, ineffectively.  When democrats control house, senate and white house, they can yet accomplish nothing.  The excuse for this is always “conservadems”, or “Dinos” (democrats in name only), but guess what?  If you voted for decent candidates, you wouldn’t have that problem.

    The poor peoples campaign has come at a time when our Nation and our people desperately need it.  You do not see Hillary Clinton leading the charge, do you?  No, that would be Mr. Bernie Sanders, who’s supporters you mostly washed your hands of, yourselves causing the split between so called moderates and “radicals”.

    So I say to you: Blame me for what you will.  Insult, demean, hold me in contempt, condescend in the extreme.  We here, radicals though we be called, are on the right side of history.

    We are here for the poor, for the environment, for civil and economic equality.  We are here to bring greater peace and prosperity to this world, to fight for the needs of the many and not the few.  We are here to make the world a better place – and we will not support those compromised by greed and corruption – no more than you yourselves would support Trump.

    You are now on the wrong side of history.  The policies and candidates (including watered down healthcare programs that enrich the insurance companies, support for lobbyists and endless greed – Manchin, Heitkamp, McCaskill, Feinstein, Pelosi)  that you support are on the wrong side of history.

    It hasn’t got a thing to do with purity.  Only with the common good of our people and the people of the world.  In such regard – you and your politicians and policies have failed.  Those of us “radicals” here have simply grown tired of it.  We have grown tired of supporting lesser evils and permitting the further financial rape and destruction of our Nation and it’s people.  We will not stand for it anymore – whether it has a d or an r behind it.

    If you want to blame someone for the current state of tension and war – why not look to those who illegally attacked other Nations?  You would find your Clinton – and even Obama among them.  Why not look to those who promoted the TPP?  Why not look to those who’s ineffective policies, lies and ignorance (whoops, didn’t read the intel report on Iraq…) brought us the Iraq war?  Or to Clinton who supported it?

    How about years of devastating and numerous political losses?  These things did not happen due to liberalism, due to “radicals” like us.  They happened because supposedly “good” democrats acted without consideration or responsibility in aiding the GOP.  Without the efforts of democrats supporting right wing philosophy, welfare reform would have been rejected.  We would have many of the social and economic policies and programs we have dreamed of.

    Those cowards who say “We can not do this because it has never been done” are apparently ignorant of the history of our Nation.

    So, blame us if you will, but take a good look in the mirror as you do.  Do you really want to keep supporting the corrupt status quo?  Will you not throw your lot in with radicals and abandon the wealthy elite who have so abused you for decades?

    Come on – I used to be one of you, but being a radical, I find, has set me free to follow what I truly believe in, to support justice.  To support and promote fully the right to life, liberty – and the pursuit of happiness – not just for those who society deems “deserve it”, but for us all.  Throw in the towel.  The democratic establishment is not democratic.  It’s members are corrupt liars and millionaires – leave it behind… it does not serve you.

    NJOCK, PennLawyer, TRex and 52 otherspa28, Gryneos, Major Hogwash, Koko, cc6, historylovr, , Piperay, beltanefauve, Oilwellian, dlegendary1, B Calm, eridani, TIME TO PANIC, MistaP, Flying Squirrel, 99Forever, canoeist52, Cassiopeia, Utopian Leftist, Yanath, LongTomH, ccinamon, LiberalElite, glinda, PDiddie, 3FingerBrown, Ohio Barbarian, Enthusiast, Punxsutawney, VagrantPeters, zoewashburne, Scott Crowder, Haikugal, cleverflamingo, Xyzse, KarenS, NV Wino, Betty Karlson, mmonk, PADemD, Bisbonian, HomerRamone, Elizabeth, nevereVereven, h-32, JEB, Land of Enchantment, mrtrale, Marym625, Satan, N2Doc like this
    “There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.” - Mark Twain

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    • N2Doc (6500 posts)
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      1. I know you can't read this at the moment

      But I agree 100%. I left that ‘other place’ this morning after it was made clear that one had to support anyone with a ‘D’ next to their name, even a horrible fascist tool like Joe Manchin. No criticism allowed. I have reached a line that I will not cross, even in the name of ‘numbers’. To support fascists like Manchin and Heitcamp for the sake of ‘winning’ is to be the same as the Republicans- Win at all costs, soul be damned. No more.

      "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
      • davidthegnome (2565 posts)
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        13. I hear you

        I don’t understand how they can support candidates like Manchin just because they are “democrats”.  It’s all about taking control of the house and senate, supposedly, but remember the last time democrats had that?  Who did they blame for the Obama administration being ineffective on progressive policy?  Why, conservative democrats and DINOs, of course.  I’ve had this argument with my Father who thinks there is going to be a massive blue wave in November, that democrats will utterly crush the republicans and the Trump tax cuts will be killed, the environment protected – and our respect among Nations restored…. gee… when was the last time we heard that?

        While I still favor (and will support) progressive democrats, being a member of the democratic party is not a sign that they will stand for anything decent.  I had hope once that the dems would eventually clean house, kick out the DINOs like Manchin, Heitkamp, McCaskill, etc. and reclaim their party and their pride.  Turns out, the party apparatus has decided to abandon and attack progressives instead.

        If they elect democrats that vote with republicans on nearly every terrible piece of legislation… how is anything going to improve?  Such democrats will also work to block progressive legislation – and many of the rank and file will support them by saying that they are “red state democrats”, or have, “difficult campaigns ahead”….

        “There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.” - Mark Twain
        • N2Doc (6500 posts)
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          15. Yep. It's all about Power. And Power = $$$

          It is funny how anti-progressive votes are always justified as “what their voters want”, yet they can vote for the most unpopular things with no repercussions from the ‘true believers’.  Republicans can vote for very unpopular things like Tax cuts for corporations and rollback of medicaid, and nobody says a word about their voters.

          Bernie was very popular with WV voters, and he is the anti-Manchin.  So there is evidence that WV votes can support progressives over corporate tools, given a somewhat even playing field among candidates.

          "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
      • MistaP (8488 posts)
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        17. they're PUMAs, that's their real problem–their gay activists are racist,

        their Black activists hate Jews and gays, the Christian Clintonistas are reeking judgmental hypocrites, the unbelieving Clintonistas insufferable flat-Earther fedoras who think we’re at war with Islam: it just doesn’t stop

        they all have this personality defect that bends and deflects every damn thing they get their hands on

        http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
      • Colors of the Rainbow (1974 posts)
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        22. I have a follow-up question

        “I left that ‘other place’ this morning after it was made clear that one had to support anyone with a ‘D’ next to their name, even a horrible fascist tool like Joe Manchin.” —N2Doc


        Would it be too much to say that some of the people there are also fascists? (Just a momentary thought.)

        • N2Doc (6500 posts)
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          24. Can't say

          What I can say is that they are taking all the wrong lessons from 2016. They think that by forcing people to be ‘united’ and toe the party line that they will be stronger and win. Instead they are becoming a sad echo chamber where only certain opinions are allowed. Which is ironic since the discussion board they used to most mock and detest, Free Republic, had exactly the same policy.

          "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
      • nxylas (342 posts)
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        26. *Anyone* with a D next to their name?

        With Berniecrats winning Democratic primaries across the USA, it’ll be interesting to see what excuses they suddenly come up with for the sudden rash of exceptions to this rule. Being in the UK, I’ve seen this first hand, with people who previously pledged undying loyalty to Labour suddenly getting cold feet now that Jezza is leader.

        "Slavery followed, even voluntary slavery; the weak eagerly submitted to the strong, on condition that the latter aided them to subdue the still weaker. Then there were saints who came to these people, weeping, and talked to them of their pride, of their loss of harmony and due proportion, of their loss of shame. They were laughed at or pelted with stones." - Dostoevsky, The Dream of a Ridiculous Man
        • N2Doc (6500 posts)
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          27. It is an interesting question

          Although I won’t be checking in on it I suspect the “support D’s” only applies to those actually in office now and especially only to those in good standing with the DNC.

          "But nothing ever changes unless there's some pain" - Tears For Fears "Goodnight Song"
    • nevereVereven (4838 posts)
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      2. Heartily recommended!

      A hologram of a magnifying glass will also function as a magnifying glass, but a hologram of Sherlock Holmes won't solve anything.  
    • Bisbonian (127 posts)
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      3. Added to my "David the Gnome" file.

      You keep hitting these out of the park.

    • Elizabeth (15 posts)
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      4. It's baffling that they insist we be "good Democrats" and continue to

      …elect to office and prop up the so-called ConservaDems once in office.  These CDs then vote with the Republicans.  And we’re the radicals?  Yeah, no.  That’s not how it works and they’re doing it wrong.

      • davidthegnome (2565 posts)
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        14. Sadly

        We have become “radical” in comparison to today’s democratic party.  That is, those of us who favor progressive legislation and many of the things I mentioned in my OP.  The democrats have moved so far to the right that many are embracing acts of war, McCarthyism, ridiculous sanctions, deregulating the economy (a number of democrats voted to kill the Dodd-Frank – which was intended as a protection – albeit a slight one – against a repeat of the 2008 crash)

        Good democrats?  They are out there, there are some here… but the party as a whole, it’s structure, it’s system, it’s leaders, are, for the most part, no damn good.  The DNC spent over 900 million to support the Clinton campaign – by giving this money to some five “consultants”.  Eh, I could go on all day but I had better not.

        “There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.” - Mark Twain
    • mmonk (3130 posts)
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      5. Exactly. Humanity is about right vs wrong. If they want to call it that,

      but compromise with wrong and call it success, let the advance of darkness be their’s.

    • Xyzse (3625 posts)
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      6. Well said.

      I would have added the fact that one Hillary Clinton advocated for adding more sanctions against Iran, effectively striking down the current Iranian Deal, giving the SAME justifications that Trump has provided.

      See, the problem I have with these individuals is that their positions and ethics are tied to the party, which then makes them hypocrites when lambasting people doing the same exact things they praise from members of their party, particularly the leadership.  As such, they stand for nothing, and have no firm morals of their own.

    • Haikugal (7379 posts)
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      7. This should be on the daily radical…thanks David!

    • Scott Crowder (829 posts)
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      8. Next time they cry for Party Unity, show them this


      former President Bill Clinton told Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez to not let Sen. Bernie Sanders’ (I., Vt.) supporters become powerful in the party.

      Think of all the “moderates” who, throughout history, have failed to oppose state-sanctioned aggression, oppression, and abuse, from slavery to child labor, while maligning those who call for change as dangerous and misguided, violent radicals. And yet, in retrospect, when a renewed social contract is established as the new normal, the unlawful actions that brought about these societal shifts are turned into mythical tales of nationalistic heroism and dates for kids to memorize at school.
    • Enthusiast (13207 posts)
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      9. Bernie or bust! Now more than ever!

      "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
    • Ohio Barbarian (9071 posts)
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      10. Most of SV is upper middle class or wealthier. They should be Republicans. nt

      Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
      • GummyBearz (264 posts)
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        16. There was a time when I would disagree, but that time has passed

        I think a lot of them are republicans.  The pendulum swung way too far over there.  They create way too much animosity within their supposed party to the point that I think a large number of them are not even in that party.

    • 3FingerBrown (774 posts)
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      11. I can't stand Hillary Clinton and wouldn't

      have voted for her no matter who she ran against.

    • Blackspade (3995 posts)
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      12. Fuck yes.

    • Marym625 (29835 posts)
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      18. Back on The Daily Radical

      Sorry it was removed during that update fiasco

      Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • B Calm (1224 posts)
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      19. I hope the lurkers from SV comprehend this OP! K&R

      “When I was a kid growing up, I think my instincts always were for the underdog.” – Bernie Sanders    
    • dlegendary1 (1081 posts)
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      20. Denial is a hell of a drug

      Damn glad I left that place for good.

      These mofos at the DNC can lick mah balls! I'm not voting or supporting their 3rd way goons.
    • Piperay (777 posts)
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      21. Yes EXACTLY

      Thank you for posting this! :fistbump:

    • Colors of the Rainbow (1974 posts)
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      23. A little music may help

    • Major Hogwash (3883 posts)
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      28. Great analysis.

      You’re right, it’s not about purity.
      Not a single one of the Presidential candidates I have voted for in the past has been on the same side of every single issue as I have been on.
      There were some things I didn’t agree with them on, but I still supported them, nonetheless.
      If purity tests had been used, none of them would have gotten my vote.

      However, like you suggested, there is a difference between drawing a fine line on an issue or two, and discovering that you have differing opinions with a candidate on many specific issues.
      But now, with the poor people’s campaign coming to the forefront, maybe some of them will see things differently.
      Perhaps due to the passage of time, it will help heal their wounded egos, and they will find their way to the light.

      Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
    • Gryneos (2322 posts)
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      29. In other words, they have principles.

      And they back them up by putting them to work.

      Due to threads like these and just general curiosity, I’ll sometimes look at those massive threads over there, complaining about Bernie putting up a bill that’s already within the Dems “platform.” “The Platform” is pointedly mentioned every time someone tries to suggest that the Dems could do the things Bernie is doing. It seems to be used just to make progressives shut up.

      “It’s already on The Platform!”


      Then implement The Platform! (or shut the fuck up about it.)

      "That's Jeff Vader, that is."__"I am not Jeff Vader, I am Darth Vader."__"What, Jeff Vader runs the Deathstar?"__"No, Jeff… No, I run the Deathstar."__"You Jeff Vader?"__"No, I'm Darth Vader!"__"Are you his brother? Can you get his autograph?"__"I can't get it… No, I'm… All right, I'm Jeff Vader! I'm Jeff Vader!"__"Can I have your autograph?"__"No, fuck off, or I'll kill you with a tray! Give me penne a la arabiata or you shall die. And you, and everyone in this canteen! Death by tray it shall be!" Eddie Izzard, Circle