Home Main Forums General Discussion It's time for white people to wake up to what White Nationalists, etc. are.

  • Cleita (2567 posts)
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    It's time for white people to wake up to what White Nationalists, etc. are.

    No matter what these yahoos call themselves, they are nothing more than gang bangers. When I moved up to Northern Idaho from Los Angeles, and came face to face with some of them, I recognized them for what they are, gang bangers no different than Pachucos, Crips, or Bloods or even Yakuzas. The only difference is that they are white. Otherwise they operate the same. They have a disdain for government and law. They engage in illegal and criminal activities to fund themselves and their club. They wear colors, symbols and specific clothing to identify them selves. They cache weapons both legal and stolen. They are violent with women and among themselves. They have no respect for others than themselves. But they even go a step further in claiming they are racially superior.

    They have received a pass from the white community and the government altogether because of their whiteness. This is why they have gotten unsurpassed access to the venues of law abiding citizens. If a Crip or Blood gang held a torchlight parade through the streets of Los Angeles, they wouldn’t make it a block before a swat team introduced them to the County Jail if they weren’t already familiar with it. They would not be gathering in groups on street corners, nor would they be carrying anything that resembled a weapon or making threats of any kind to peaceful protesters.

    Really, white people, take off your blinders and see them for what they are.

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    • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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      1. Even though most of them have never read Ayn Rand –

      and most of them can barely read – they have absorbed osmitically the atavistic tribal barbarism that is the ages-old basis of her imbecilic blathering.  It appeals to the rat brain.

      We are tribal primates who evolved in small groups and are somewhat – not deterministically, by any means – programmed to hate the “other.”  What was once a useful survival tool is now what will probably wipe out 90% of the human race given how slowly reason evolves.

      Cooperation with other tribes is hard but worth the effort.  Steven Pinker goes on at great and fascinating length on the subject.

      • Beebee (1440 posts)
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        3. An excellent reply!

        Thank you, hifiguy!

        "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
        • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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          4. Thanks!

          I have been listening to and reading a lot of Pinker lately.  He is one of the most reasoned and enlightening thinkers on the planet these days.   Dawkins, Carroll, Dennett and Harris also bring much light.

          And you must start with Hobbes and Hume if you want to grasp the basics of the human condition.

          • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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            33. hobbes and hume? lol

            • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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              49. What can I say?

              I read philosophy for fun.

              • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                55. so do i, but i don't find them much fun

            • vattel (1361 posts)
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              86. hobbes's system is based in a flawed conception of human psychology.

              It is simply false to claim, as Hobbes does, that everyone ultimately only cares about their own survival, pleasure and glory.

      • davidgmills (5233 posts)
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        20. Let me get down on their level.

        These are some sick fucks.

        French Revolution; not secession.
      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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        32. history tells us something different i think than that we are somewhat

        ‘programmed to hate the other’

        plenty of counterexamples

        • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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          54. Read some of the best of evolutionary psychology

          and start with Steven Pinker.  “Hate” may have been an overstatement, but our forbears on the savanna evolved to distrust the other – very strongly.  Social/kin group solidarity against outsiders was a valuable survival tool against other groups who wanted your land, hunting/gathering grounds and breeding population.

          Darwin and things derived logically from Darwinian theory explains humans to a T.  We are primates in deed and DNA.  Add Richard Dawkins to your reading list along with Pinker.  And remember a “theory” in science is something that has never been disproved or proven false by observation, experiment or, in the case of cosmology and physics, a logical/mathematical proof.

          • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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            56. i've read pinker and think him abominable

            • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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              58. More's the pity for you.

              Thinking is good for you.

              • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                60. lol it's good for everyone in moderation

            • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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              59. You are showing very trollish tendencies.

              No psychologist backs up his theories with more data than does Pinker.

              • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                61. i don't like pinker so i'm a troll? check your data

                and your assumptions

                you know those guys who went around measuring people’s craniums to see which race was the most braineous?

                they had lots of data too

                you know the american eugenicists?  they had tons of data, all financed by very respectable and wealthy people

                you know who writes history and finances science?

                the ‘winners’

                • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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                  62. I mistrust people who snipe at data-driven science

                  with no counter-argument or data to the contrary.  And I will leave it at that.

                  Modern science is peer-reviewed and subject to constant verification pressures.  Edwardian science was not, except for physics.

                  • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                    63. didn't notice you posting any 'arguments' for your assertions

                    i mistrust people who start out tarring large groups of people they don’t know as

                    uneducated, illiterate, osmitic absorbers of atavistic tribal barbarism with ‘rat brains’

                    while lecturing other people what they should be reading

                    and pretty much calling them trolls because they don’t like your personal reading list

                    speaks to me of an assumption of (class-based) superiority

                    totally unjustified imho

                    and i will leave it at that

                  • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                    98. didn't realize the edwardian era lasted until 1939.

                    Between 1910 and 1939, the laboratory was the base of the Eugenics Record Office of biologist Charles B. Davenport and his assistant Harry H. Laughlin, two prominent American eugenicists of the period. Davenport was director of the Carnegie Station from its inception until his retirement in 1934. In 1935 the Carnegie Institution sent a team to review the ERO’s work, and as a result the ERO was ordered to stop all work. In 1939 the Institution withdrew funding for the ERO entirely…

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Spring_Harbor_Laboratory

                    Still there though — now doing ‘genetics’ and getting the same bullshit results

            • duckpin (4832 posts)
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              94. You're correct. Pinker is worse than sociobiology and doesn't understand

              that human beings are alone in culture/gene coevolution.

              "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
          • Wood (1184 posts)
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            83. Evolution continues every single moment of our existence. Our species

            has evolved into many many sub-species, my opinion. For example, there have been vast differences between primitive societies, despite all being bipeds descended from primates. Humans do not all “revert” the same way, to any sort of way of being — until the very end, when all choice is gone.

            This will all be measurable some day: evolution — Evolution — happening every moment, on a subatomic level, and being recorded in the dna.

            I suspect “sub-species” is not the/a correct scientific term; and I understand people disagree as to what evolution is all about. Choice is an important piece. It is not a passive process, nor merely about physical survival.

            "All things wrong will move on if you let them."  - Prem Rawat
      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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        57. if it's true most of them can't read, why do you think that is?

        you think they were born with rat brains?

        • Fuddnik (756 posts)
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          64. They communicate with cave-dweller type scrawls on shithouse walls.

          The Universe is made of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.
    • Beebee (1440 posts)
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      2. REC

      Thank you for calling it what it is.

      "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        7. It's not hard to see if you ever had to interact with a gang in your burg.

        They need to be treated by law enforcement like they would treat any criminal organization. Very few if any are purely political or religious. I haven’t known any that don’t engage in some illegal or criminal activity.  So they are basically gangs bonded by some kind of brotherhood BS ideology whose main function is maybe dealing drugs or running burglary rings or other such enterprise. In their spare time they protect their interests by commiting violence to those who might threaten those interests, real or imaginary, but society is treating them like they are one of us. They aren’t and law abiding citizens need to be protected from them. Instead of chasing evey poor alien picking lettuce all over the place, law enforcement needs to crack down on them.

         

        • sadoldgirl (1815 posts)
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          16. Sorry, but what you call "law enforcement" is infested with the same mentality.

          The reason why they get away with it is our terrible choice and

          training of the police.

          • Cleita (2567 posts)
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            17. This is true and a subject for a future conversation.

            I noticed the police in Virginia didn’t know how to react to what was the start of a riot going on in the street. It seems it should never have gone that far, that those alt-right guys or whatever they are called today should not have been able to get into the street to begin with considering they were carrying weapons. When I go on a protest these days and I’ve been to several this year locally protesting oil companies, they don’t even allow us to have sticks to hold up our signs.

            • GZeusH (2108 posts)
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              18. Police would know what to do with protesters of color

              or gays, or leftists — bring out the military weapons.   The basic problem is that there are two types of McVeighs, ones in uniform, and ones out of uniform.

              Policy:  The mistaken notion that bossy people have that they can influence other people's behavior through majority rule.
              • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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                24. Absolute truth.

          • Silver Witch (5272 posts)
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            21. This right here. The police are….

            infiltrated by racist and haters who get a gun,a pass and power.

            Clearly after today we know they won’t stop the mayhem only feed it.

            Guess We are totally screwed. I wouldn’t call the police if my life depended on it. Cause I might still end up hurt, raped, arrested or worse dead.

            I see a bad moon arising.

            #Let'sTalkRevolution
            • Fuddnik (756 posts)
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              67. The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder.

              Quote by Mayor Richard Daley, Czechago, during 1968 riots.

              The Universe is made of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.
          • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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            22. These days the cops are an armed gang all their own

            with an unlimited and unaccountable license to kill anyone they wish to.

    • Marym625 (25840 posts)
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      5. On The Daily Radical!

      Thank you. Truer words werenever spoken

      "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        8. Thank you Mary. It's something people need to know and

        push their law enforcement on doing the right thing.

        • Marym625 (25840 posts)
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          11. Completely agree

          "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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        15. Mary, that "loading" gif freaks me out!

        LOL!  :rofl:

        • Marym625 (25840 posts)
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          27. Sorry

          We’re still fighting for net neutrality.

          :)

          :hi:

          "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
          • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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            53. It made me think I was missing something!

            and I don’t want to miss anything!  :D

            Luv ya,

            hifiguy

            • Marym625 (25840 posts)
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              89. LOL!

              You’re not alone. But I should change it to something that doesn’t spin

              Love you too!

              "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • Rozinante (3523 posts)
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      6. 6 white nationalists were arrested in a house in my county a few days ago.

      All had criminal records, there was nazi propaganda, firearms (in possession of felons), and distribution amounts of Meth, and assorted other drugs and paraphernalia.  4 men, 2 women.

      http://deadstate.org/conspiracy-theories-make-people-feel-like-theyre-special/
      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        9. When I lived in the Spokane/Couer d'Alene area, I started tracing

        burglaries and bank robberies in the area and as it turns out every single criminal could be traced back to the Church of the Aryan Nation although they always disavowed that the perp was a member but was seemed always to be a former member when questioned.

        • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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          12. Gomer got it right for once

          Gomer Pyle

        • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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          36. i made an earlier post about the leadership of such groups

          e.g. david duke, son of a Shell engineer and well traveled internationally in his youth

          e.g. william luther pierce, a physicist with good credentials (Los Alamos, Pratt & Whitney)

          e.g. george lincoln rockwell (Hebron Academy, Brown University, Commander US Navy)

          none of whom ever got jail time

          unlike their less upper-middle class followers

          like one of pierce’s first and most loyal followers:  who died in prison from an ‘epileptic seizure’ after getting 120 years sentence

          Lane was born as the third of four siblings in Woden, Iowa; he had a brother and two sisters. His father was an alcoholic migrant worker who was physically abusive towards his wife and children. Lane would later claim that his father forced his mother to engage in prostitution so he could obtain “booze money”, and that his older brother was rendered with permanent deafness as a result of a “beating gone awry”.  When Lane was four years old, his father abandoned his family. In 1944, his older brother was arrested after searching for food in a neighbor’s trash bins, and he and his sisters were placed in foster care. Lane was soon adopted by a traveling Lutheran minister, which resulted in Lane being separated from his two sisters

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lane_(white_supremacist)

          Such is a mirror of the world situation, where the real criminals sit in high places and the sinned against take the fall

           

          • Cleita (2567 posts)
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            37. Even if the leaders are middle class, they are still thugs

            and gangsters and they get less scrutiny and justice than brown people.

            • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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              41. upper-middle. one died at home in bed, quite well off, one got shot, and

              one is still with us

              but you must have missed the underclass follower who got 120 years in prison and died there of an ‘epileptic seizure’

              if the (upper-class) leadership pays few consequences, while the (lower-class) followers pay through the nose, there’s probably a reason

               

          • Cleita (2567 posts)
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            40. One of the political comics which I can't remember which ones

            did a skit with an actor playing Obama saying all the things Trump has said. It was obvious Obama would have been roasted over hot coals for saying the things Trump says. The fact that it meets with little objection espcially from his white privilege, entitled Republican Party, is frankly appaling. The man is nothing better than a racist, misogynist pig, yet he gets off scot free and he along with Limbaugh, Coulter and the rest of the Klan illuminati parading around in public and on the news as if they were worthwhile human beings instead of being the voice of these white nationalist thugs.

            • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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              45. the question is more who they work for because they're just hired players

            • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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              51. If Obama had given one speech half as black nationalist

              as the white nationalist speeches Il Douche gives every day he would have been lynched within a week.  For all of my multitudinous disagreements with O, from the Left, I have never missed a past president more.

              • Fuddnik (756 posts)
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                71. Obama made me miss Nixon.

                I thought nobody could do that.

                Trump is beyond comparison to anyone human.

                The Universe is made of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.
                • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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                  76. Trump makes me miss Chimpoleon

                  I need to drink when I contemplate that thought seriously.

                  But it is true.  I never worried about Chimpy McCokespoon starting WW III.

                  And I remember Nixon.  Long haired dope-smoking 17-year-old me and my crewcut, old school dad (a Truman Democrat and lifelong union man who hated Nixon and passed his hatred down to me) had one of our best bonding experiences watching Nixon resign.

      • Fuddnik (756 posts)
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        68. Pasco County, Florida?

        I’m there too. Confederate flags flying on half the pick-ups here.

        The Universe is made of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.
        • Rozinante (3523 posts)
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          69. Yep. New Port Richey.

          A lot of scum neo nazis there. I’m in Pinellas, St Petersburg.

          http://deadstate.org/conspiracy-theories-make-people-feel-like-theyre-special/
          • Fuddnik (756 posts)
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            70. Howdy neighbor.

            Southwest Pasco (Holiday)

            The Universe is made of protons, neutrons, electrons, and morons.
            • Rozinante (3523 posts)
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              75. Greetings! Several other Radicals are nearby.

              DJean is nearby, and so is Madfloridian. We should all meetup sometime.

              http://deadstate.org/conspiracy-theories-make-people-feel-like-theyre-special/
    • mick063 (2342 posts)
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      10. This is nothing new.

      There is radical element that grew rapidly in size following their perception of how events unfolded in Waco and Northern Idaho. Much of that perception was molded through a small number of extremist’s and their new found access to an internet in it’s infancy. Their ability to format the sequence of events to fit their world view, combined with an ability to reach a large audience, created an alien sub culture that is still influential. In my opinion, the radicalization of the Republican Party is a product of this sub culture. It didn’t help when the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck found economic opportunity in fanning the flames.

      I vehemently disagree with both their ideology and agenda. That said, Bill Clinton’s Attorney General selection, Janet Reno, as well as the ATF, handled events very poorly and helped drive an even greater number of otherwise dormant racist whites toward extremism. Waco was extremely damaging to the Democratic Party. It gave Congressional Republicans license to doggedly pursue impeachment with diminished chances of public backlash.

      "I welcome their hatred"    Franklin D. Roosevelt
      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        13. No it's not unfortunately. I have been aware of whom they are

        for more than twenty five years now, even having to deal with them on the job. But I have always been amazed how they were often given a pass for activities that a Mexican or black person wouldn’t be.

        For years they were allowed to march once a year through the main street of Couer d’Alene with Nazi uniforms and swastikas. It was considered free speech by the locals but should organizations that engage in criminal activities be allowed free speech to spread their ideas? Betcha the Crips can’t.

        • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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          43. do the crips have a political stance?

          it’s odd that in those days when the white supremacists were marching through the streets of couer d’alene it never made the national news

          i know they did, i read of it in the papers, but i don’t recall any riots and deaths

          maybe the locals had the right idea

          i also vaguely recall something about some kind of counter from other citizens that was observed without incident as well

      • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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        14. That was the first bit.

        “That n*gger in the WH” was the last straw for most of the Johnny-come-latelies, though.

      • hifiguy (1662 posts)
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        23. Paranoia can be contagious among the

        irrational and uneducated.  Both of which this country is cursed with in huge numbers.

        • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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          44. paranoia can also be contagious among the rich and well educated.

          which the world is also cursed with.

          those are the folks bombing the ‘irrational and uneducated’ in our times

      • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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        26. Sorry, I disagree. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but the Branch

        Davidians and the fanatics at Ruby Ridge had to be crushed. Clinton just didn’t have the balls to say so.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
        • mick063 (2342 posts)
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          29. Children burning to death……

          is far from “crushing” the Branch Davidians. Unless you rationalize that those children themselves were Branch Davidians.

          Castle sieges go back to feudal times.

          Occasionally, the attackers would await for the grain stores to diminish and possible capitulation. A potential savings in blood and treasure. Of course our modern, “swat team” mentality doesn’t allow for such things. Like in our modern wars abroad, I suppose burning children are just a necessary evil for those that desire a good “crushing”.

          Let me make it clear that I despise the reactionary movement that arose from these horrible incidents, but Tim McVeigh was convinced that those burning children in Waco justified his terrorist attack in Oklahoma City.  The visual from that was the threshold that “converted” many into their own type of activism.

          "I welcome their hatred"    Franklin D. Roosevelt
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            • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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              38. but they didn't is the difference they did nothing to other people's children

              • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                47. Come the revolution, let us hope that it is people like you who are in

                charge, rather than people like me. I may be better than most, but I know I am not better than all.

                Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                  48. huh? nothing about me being 'better' than anyone

                  it’s just a fact they did nothing to anyone’s children

                  or anyone, actually, that i can recall

                  i was no fan of their beliefs but i never understood why the feds got involved

                  • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                    72. I meant it as a compliment. You are probably a better person than I.

                    You wouldn’t wipe out families. I might. My ancestors certainly did. It’s in my DNA, and I know it. I have a very low tolerance for political or religious fanaticism. I suppose that makes me a different type of fanatic. I’ve got lots of company; doesn’t make it right, but there it is.

                    Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                    • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                      73. well what did they do that would make you want to wipe them out?

                      i seriously don’t get it

                      i thought tolerance was an american virtue

                      • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                        77. Tolerance is an American virtue. You are right.

                        I’m not as virtuous as you, that’s all. I see fanaticism of the sort displayed in Waco, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City, and most recently Charlottesville as a threat that must be destroyed at all costs.

                        It is good that there are people like you that will make people like me at least think and talk before taking action.

                        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                        81. nothing to do with virtue. if someone is threatening me, i'd want to

                        stop the threat.  i just don’t see what the threat was at waco.  so far as i remember, they didn’t harm anyone.

                        my root belief is that a lot of the ‘threats’ we are led to believe in are manufactured by power.  that power that we can’t even lay a finger on is the biggest threat i see.

                        but i also believe there was something dodgy about rome adopting christianity, AND the protestant reformation.  and i think “science” is just another religion.

                        I’m a bit odd.

                        and as i said elsewhere in this thread, i think this latest (psyops) will result in more legislation to be used against the populace; more surveillance and anti-freedom in the name of ‘freedom’

                        though i’d bet some serious money that some of what we saw was not what it seemed

                        my comments about the class origins of the white power leadership and its followers had a point

                        no one seemed interested

              • Enthusiast (9813 posts)
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                52. NAZIs have a long track record.

                Their ideology is specific.

                "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
                • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                  65. i'm sorry, thought we were talking about waco

                  didn’t realize there were NAZIs there

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                    • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                      78. yeah, we part company there. nazis and religious fanatics are two

                      different types i think

                      maybe you’ve been misled by the kind of nazis who USE religiosity to achieve their political and financial ends

                      there are a shitload of those types, but they’re seldom actually religious

                      difference between jim bakker and tammy faye maybe

                       

                      • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                        80. I haven't been mislead at all. I know what you are talking about.

                        Of course, atheists like Stalin and Mao were just as religiously fanatical as Torquemada, IMO. All either had faith that there  was or was not some higher power. I don’t claim to know one way or the other. In any case, the end result is the same. So, to me, they’re the same thing.

                        If you disagree with me on this I’m not going to get my underwear in an uproar. We agree on things that are far more important to me and mine, like a reasonable standard of living and a stop to wars for profit, for example.

                        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                        82. i don't see either stalin or mao as having faith in a higher power, not

                        in communism if that’s what you mean.  the case of china especially, i find dodgy but i won’t go there cause it’s too far out on a limb with limited ‘data’ lol.

                        i surely agree with you that everyone should have a reasonable standard of living and no wars particularly for profit – or control – or anything actually.  it’s surreal to me that we’ve been at war most of my life and we just go about our lives guiltlessly living off the spoils and struggling on the ratheap

                        appreciate the conversation btw

                      • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                        90. I just meant that for one to believe that there is absolutely no higher power

                        out there somewhere is as much an act of faith as believing that there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his prophet. IMHO, the atheists are much more likely to be correct than Muslims or any other religious group, but I don’t know that they are.  My wife’s uncle is a physicist and an atheist, and refreshingly admits that is an act of faith on his part.

                        It’s just that it was just as wrong for Stalin to destroy Russian Orthodox churches and kill priests or for Mao to try to eradicate Buddhism and Confucianism as it was for the Inquisition to massacre whole populations deemed to be heretical.

                        That freedom of religion thing thing runs just as deeply with me as the no establishment clause of the First Amendment.

                        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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                        91. understood. i partly agree but also think one of the reasons for the

                        attempt to eradicate faith is in order to eradicate the power structure behind it and absorb or dissolve the adherents because there is always the danger they can be organized to counter the new power

                        as in our times

                         

                         

            • MistaP (6262 posts)
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              93. did you literally just quote John Chivington?

              http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
              • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                104. I guess I did. I had forgotten which butcher had said that.

                I was just pissed off yesterday at how fucking Nazis, of all people, are not called terrorists when they drive a car into a crowd. Twice. I admit I was really pissed. Sorry.

                Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
            • duckpin (4832 posts)
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              95. The cult in Waco murdered ATF agents who were there pursuant to a court

              order. They were given many opportunities to surrender and have their day in court but chose to set fire to their compound instead.

              Clinton could have helped things by ordering the FBI and ATF to dig deeper into the roots of the Oklahoma City bombers and the help they got with the plotting and carrying out of the bombing but chose not to.

              "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
              • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                105. There were all sorts of rumors in the crazy right wing gossip network at the

                time. I had the misfortune of working with some of these assholes when I worked security(call that the low point of my professional life). They said the military or Secret Service or FBI or whoever just “disappeared” certain Aryan Nation and neo-Nazi leaders to send a message after OKC.

                I don’t know if it is true at all.

                Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                • duckpin (4832 posts)
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                  106. This is brand new to me so I have my doubts

                  Public trials would have been more effective

                  "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
                  • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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                    107. I never saw any evidence for any of it. I figured it was just another wackjob

                    conspiracy theory which wasn’t nearly as creative as the Illuminati one. Of course, when I told these coworkers that I hoped it was true, and good for Clinton if it was, they usually stopped talking to me about it, which was my objective.

                    Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
                    • duckpin (4832 posts)
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                      108. Smart way to avoid having to listen to tripe!

                      "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
      • MistaP (6262 posts)
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        28. in 1979 the Klan literally directly shot and killed five people

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_massacre

        the problem with treating everything as a crisis is losing the sense of the history of events

        http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
        • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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          66. thank you for the breath of sanity and historical memory

          seriously appreciated

        • duckpin (4832 posts)
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          96. I was going to mention this – Thank you. It was an ambush with murderous

          intent and execution. The North Carolina officials did not do their sworn jobs and the only partial justice was through civil suits.

          "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
          • MistaP (6262 posts)
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            97. yes, a lot of those "all-white juries" popped up for the trials

            like the all-white primaries a certain party used to hold because they said legally they were just a private club

            and it’s the Christic Institute got those civil suits–they tried to uncover the drugrunning aspect to Iran-Contra but higher courts all reversed the convictions

            http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
            • duckpin (4832 posts)
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              99. As I recall, and please tell me if my recollection is faulty, the communists

              did not want to go in civil court because they knew the local courts were biased and corrupt and thought it was the wrong thing to do. How some ended up there has never been clear to me.

              "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
    • LiberalArkie (4081 posts)
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      19. They used to be motorcycle gangs. But they can't afford Harleys any

      more.

      • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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        79. Before that, they were the Blues and the Greens in Justinian's Constantinople.

        Before that, they were the Roman citizens cheering on slaves who fought to the death in the arenas. Now they are the people who watch football hoping to see an injury, or who watch NASCAR hoping to see a crash. Some of them, invading open-minded college campuses like that of the University of Virginia, seek to provoke the same thing up close and personal.

        And Donald Trump, with his sometimes explicit calls to violence, spurs them all. Ever the showman, Trump is. He is a very dangerous man who needs to be removed from the White House ASAP and sent to a nice quiet place where he can rant to his heart’s content without hurting himself or others.

        Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
    • Ohio Barbarian (4793 posts)
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      25. Absolutely. Gang-bangers are criminals. Terrorists are criminals.

      Both require good police work to control and hopefully mostly eliminate, not military intervention. Both use the same tactics. What disturbs me is the lack of police at the scene when this all blew up. Where the hell were they?

      Ignorance is the foundation of tyranny.   
    • PFunk1 (1201 posts)
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      30. Sorry to disagree here

      But as one who has lived and dealt gang banger on a somewhat regular bases they are not them.  IMO these folks are terrorists.  The same as ISIS but using ‘White Privilege” as armor to ‘cover’ their actions.

      Too bad 45 and is folks don’t have the guts to call them out.

      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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        39. yeah, i can see the new anti-terrorism legislation coming

        and i think once again we’re being played

        like the fools we are

    • kliljedahl (1119 posts)
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      31. Charlottesville TOTAL VICTORY: Event Debriefing

      That’s what they’re saying anyway:

      Richard Spencer being attacked and dragged out of the park by military cops.

      The live thread is still going and will keep going. You’re gonna wanna keep checking that, because Trump is talking about this and a car just crashed into a crowd – all sorts of things still happening.

      These “people” are so delusional: https://www.dailystormer.com/charlottesville-complete-victory-event-debriefing/

      Now I have to go take a shower after visiting that site.

      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        35. Are they connected with Storm Front message boards?

        Because showering in boiling water and bleach won’t get the filth off you from either site.

    • Enthusiast (9813 posts)
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      42. Fight them now or die by their hand later.

      That is the choice.

      "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848
      • Coldmountaintrail (2491 posts)
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        50. yes, so says everyone about groups they don't like

        and any group can be made to play the scapegoat or manufactured for that purpose

        lets you and him fight

        (meanwhile, i’ll steal the silver and your country while i’m at it)

        c’mon man, donald trump is president and the ‘obviously has it in the bag’ clinton is not

        let alone sanders, the most popular polititian today

        and suddenly it’s the third coming of the klan

        who also had a resurgence in the 20s, on the west coast no less

        right before the entire world went to hell

        you think a lightweight half-mafioso like trump would be president if somebodies more important wasn’t on board?

        he got free air time…even a picture of his waiting empty podium was favored over a speech from sanders

        you don’t find it…odd?

         

         

        • Haikugal (5792 posts)
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          85. All true and noted.

            Be the bird.....       Hey DNC! Up Yours! It's ON!! Kick against the pricks!!!
    • Major Hogwash (2777 posts)
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      46. Excellent observations.

      They were more powerful back in the 80s and 90s in the Couer d’Alene area, but they are still there. And down here in Boise, too. Not as much as they used to be, not nearly as vocal or public as they were once, but they’re still here, as well.

      Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
    • Ferd Berfel (4936 posts)
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      84. "…nothing more than gang bangers"

      This is a street gang with white privilege

      …and you think you’re going to stop this simply by ‘pulling a lever’, in a booth, behind a curtain, every 2 years? - Know yourself. And if you need help with that, call the FBI. -  There is only ONE solution to this mess:  New Party !  
    • Blackspade (3018 posts)
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      87. I would say the same thing about cop's as well.

      • bemildred (4708 posts)
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        88. +1.

        It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
    • Major Hogwash (2777 posts)
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      100. These guys were white, so they get a pass.

      If a Latino group, or a Chinese group, or a Black group of men ran around with torches in the middle of the night, things would have been completely different. They wouldn’t have received a permit to hold a march like this, for one thing.

      Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        101. These people are outlaws,

        plain and simple. They endanger the people around them whom they victimize at other times for their personal gain. They should be treated like any other illigitimate enterprise or group of miscreants. There is a difference between First Ammendment rights and criminals spreading their message in the streets when they are not engaged in criminal enterprises.

    • Salemcourt (513 posts)
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      102. If they are labeled properly

      as Christian Terrorists, they will loose the support of white people immediately.

      • Cleita (2567 posts)
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        103. They do hide behind Christianity

        a lot. This is ironic since Jesus was a Jew something that sets the anti-semitic ones hair on fire when you remind them of it.