Does ‘everything happen for a reason’?

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    • #435669
      closeupready
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      • Total Posts: 2,587

      Some people say that’s bullshit, but I’ve always believed in it. What do you think?

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #435674
      Mindwalker
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      • Total Posts: 352

      That means there is no “reason” the electron turned out spin-down rather than spin-up.  So at the very core of the universe, things are intrinsically random.  My feeling is it’s necessary for life – a deterministic universe wouldn’t allow for the chaotic and complex interactions needed for life to evolve.  Moving up a level into Newtonian mechanics, there are reasons for everything.  They may be extremely complex, but there are reasons (or causes).

      I think you mean to apply this at the human level.  So such-and-so did something for a reason.  It seems like a lot of actions that people take really do have well-defined causes.  Sometimes actions are random, or at least the “causes” are complex.  This gets into chaos theory which deals with nonlinear effects of combined inputs.

    • #435684
      lownslow
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      Around 20-25,000 people starve to death every dsy but i guess its gods plan. I dont get the for a reason stuff. What purpose would it serve?

      • #435700
        closeupready
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        So if I were forced to deduce a reason for people dying of starvation, it would not be a reason that included a deity, or a reason that sprang from a deity’s mind.

        Rather, it would probably be a reason that accounted for the idea that humans are simply another species of life on planet Earth, and question whether or not that 25,000 number was proportionally higher on a per capita basis than other species of life.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #435735
          Scott Crowder
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          • Total Posts: 566

          Given our geologically rapid expansion upon the face of the Earth.
          It stands to reason that the low death per capita of our species is the cause of the mass extinction event currently happening.
          It would stand to reason, therefore, that our death rate per capita needs to go massively upward and quickly if the human race is to survive. Then strict population controls put into place.
          To paraphrase Michael Douglas “death is good”.

          • #435756
            closeupready
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            • Total Posts: 2,587

            Although birds are descendants of dinosaurs, the Mesozoic Era during, which reptiles dominated life on Earth, lasted for almost 200 million years, right? Therefore, perhaps what is occurring today is the emergence of an Age of Humanity? lol, just throwing that counterpoint out there for the sake of discussion…

            The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #435760
        Mindwalker
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        • Total Posts: 352

        If you find one, let me know 🙂

        Yeah, I find this question interesting.  It relates to what consciousness is – one way to look at it is that consciousness processes chaotic information, and lots of it.  Is chaos enough to make a reasonably complex system, or is intrinsic randomness necessary?

         

    • #435687
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 7,981

      We’re dealing with many abstracts here, so let’s narrow it down a bit. As in: something bad happens, but something good comes out of it that you might not have expected.

      In that scenario, the bad thing has closed off a particular direction and forced you to move in another direction, think of other options and opening up different possibilities that you may have unconsciously not previously considered.

      A personal example: My 2009 car was totaled. A good insurance payout allowed me to buy a brand new 2012 car that had lots of upgraded features I wanted and would now last many additional years. Had the 2009 not been totaled, I could not have justified the new car, and I would have kept it until it lost most of its resale value. Kind of a superficial example, but you get the idea.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

      • #435702
        closeupready
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        • Total Posts: 2,587

        That something big happens in your life, and that in the end, it turns out to be healthy for you though it seems scary at the time.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #435692
      Homer Ramone
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      • #435765
        eridani
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        • Total Posts: 9,978

        Taoism: Shit happens.
        Confucianism: Confucius said, “Shit happens.”
        Buddhism: If shit happens, it is an illusion.
        Zen Buddhism: What is the sound of shit happening?
        Hinduism: All this shit has happened before.
        Shinto: If you step in shit, show it some respect.
        Stoicism: I can take all this shit.
        Zoroastrianism: Shit happens half the time.
        Judaism: Why does shit always happen to US?
        Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
        Catholicism: Shit happens, and you deserve it.
        Episcopalian: Doodoo occurs.
        Unitarian: Shit happens, but that’s OK
        Lutheran: If shit happens, don’t talk about it.
        Calvinism: Shit won’t happen if you work hard.
        Seventh Day Adventism: No shit shall happen on Saturday.
        Quakers: Let’s not fight over this shit.
        Wiccan: An ye harm none, let shit happen.
        Neopaganism: Shit is part of Nature.
        Satanism: SNEPPAH TIHS.
        Jehovah’s Witnesses: Knock, Knock. Shit’s gonna happen!
        Amish/Mennonite: We won’t put up with modern shit.
        Rastafarianism: Smoke that shit!
        Agnosticism: We don’t know shit.
        Atheism: No shit!

        Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

    • #435693
      Pam2
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      I don’t believe in a God that is micro managing the world. (or any other kind of god) I think humans naturally try to look for meaning in the events of their lives, so they try to make lemonade out of lemons. That’s a good coping strategy but that doesn’t mean there was a reason behind the initial event.

       

      • #435703
        closeupready
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        That’s roughly where I fall out on this idea.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #435701
      djean111
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      I am atheist, had an NDE, believe there is something else, but a deity who micromanages to that level would be a jerk.  I once presented this this to a nice Jehovah’s Witnesses guy, when he asked me if I thought his god was micromanaging – pretty much the all things for a reason theory – and he said hey, that’s a great way to look at things, thanks for the input.  Disclaimer – I kind of like the JW folks, they are always super polite and one woman – and I am always immediately up front about atheism – used to bring me a little Christmas present , tea bags or whatever, every year for quite a while.  Because we agreed that my disbelief was not intended to counteract her belief, and that we would not find out who was correct until we passed.

      Getting away from a religious point of view, I think the universe, as far as we can experience it, is pretty random.  Thus the three body problem.  And even Sheldon could surprise us.    I just think that what we decide to do when something happens is not preordained,  and hopefully we make the best choice at the time.  Interesting question!

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

      • #435705
        closeupready
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        • Total Posts: 2,587

        Thanks. Consider, for example, Steve Jobs. He had all the money in the world, but made a bad choice when faced with the discovery that his mortality was being threatened by cancer. He could have extended his life, likely, had he made other choices about his health care. Or had he been a smoker (not sure if he was or wasn’t), his choice to continue that habit could be seen as a bad, contributing choice which led to his death.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #435707
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
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      I don’t believe the universe is just a product of random chance. I also know I can’t prove that–it’s a matter of faith. In this case, like Mr. Spock I have faith that the universe, or multiverse maybe, will unfold in the way in which it was intended.

      Intended by what? I don’t know. I feel there’s something out there, something that cares and loves, and have had some experiences which encourage that belief, but I can’t prove it to anyone and I never try. Personally, I think it’s just as arrogant to presume that there is no spiritual “stuff,” for the lack of a better word, as it is to presume that The Truth is all found in one collection of Bronze Age or medieval tales or whatnot.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #435754
        closeupready
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        the conservation of mass theory – that mass can never be extinguished; it can only change form.

        Therefore, everything that has mass NOW will always exist, in some form. Therefore, if our minds exist and are real, then they will always exist in some form. Even after our body fails to function, i.e., death.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #436261
          Sorbish
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          • Total Posts: 126

          Or is ‘mass’ just a convenient way to get us as readers to consider a notion of something that can neither be created or destroyed?

          Brain structure has mass, but it seems to me that “the mind” is just a very imperfect old conceptualization of neurological activity. IOW, mental physiological processes, that produces something we call consciousness, thinking, sensation etc and that we conceptually bundle together for conversational convenience/facilitation as ‘the mind’.

          Finally, I regularly lose my mind, and it’s absence doesn’t seem to be associated in anyway with weight loss.

          Ending the pandemic needs a shot in the arm.

          .

          • #436277
            closeupready
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            I think there is a quantum particle that doesn’t have mass, but everything else does have mass. (Unless it doesn’t.)

            The explanation that the mind is “sort of process/neurological activity” is a claim I’ve seen here, on SV, reddit and everywhere else, but what I have NOT ever seen is any data supporting that claim. It’s an internet game of telephone – if anyone asks you what the mind is, just say it’s a process, throw in a bunch of fancy words, and cross your fingers that they don’t follow up with another question.

            The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #435717
      surrealAmerican
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      • Total Posts: 1,042

      … to see patterns, even when presented with random inputs. This makes us inclined to find “reason” in whatever happens.

      It’s just part of how human brains function.

      • #435752
        closeupready
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,587

        So, for example, if someone were born a pessimist, and bad things happened to them, then of course, it’s because “I’m a bad person”/”these are interesting times”/etc. Conversely, optimists argue, “the universe is telling me to go for it”/”I deserve to have it all”/etc.

        Meanwhile, it’s possible the very same things happen, during a lifetime, to these two people, in the same sequence, to the same degree. The defining feature being that person’s disposition. Thanks for the post.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #435723
      Utopian Leftist
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      Miracles do happen but you have to believe
      Chaos is the order we have yet to perceive.

      Simply put, a “reason” for everything that happens implies cause and effect. But there are a lot of reasons to suspect that some of our lives are more determined by our characters than by the decisions we make. There is a brilliant book by the Psychologist James Hillman, titled, “The Soul’s Code.” In it, he discusses dozens of biographies of famous people and suggests that many of them were “called” to their destinies. Like the acorn that grows into the oak tree, many of us have a calling that pulls us towards something beyond our control or beyond ourselves. Be that a higher power, God, Buddha, the collective consciousness or whatever else one might believe in, I have known too many people who came into this world with a purpose or a calling (including myself), to ever believe that all of life is entirely random.

      Of course, I’m not arguing in favor of the opposite polarity, either: if life were entirely predestined, our decisions never would amount to more than the proverbial “hill of beans.” However, in every moment we have the free will to express ourselves constructively, lovingly and harmoniously, or we can choose shadow expressions, which invariably cause fear. That choice is always ours to make, and I believe that our characters can grow from the choices that we make every bit as much as they can stem from the DNA we are born with.

      "All fascism is a result of a failure of the left to provide a viable alternative." ~ Trotsky
      “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti

    • #435750
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,276

      .

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
      The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
      Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #435803
      David the Gnome
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      Consequences and unintended consequences.  In a big picture kind of way?  I have no idea.  If we go by the teachings of spiritual leaders.. could be the reason for everything is just to be.

      I have pondered this one my whole life.  If there is a reason, no one I have ever known really knows.  Some claim to, but I don’t think they really do.

      I would like to think there is.  That there is some greater force behind all of this life and chaos… But I’ll be honest, I haven’t got a clue.

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