Joe or No?

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    • #307640
      ZimInSeattle
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,814

      Here we go again. Now that Bernie Sanders has completed his predictable circuit of loss and capitulation, leftists—those who stand for socialist and anti-imperialist, or even serious social-democratic and antiwar, politics—again confront the quadrennial quandary: Must one vote for the thoroughly neo-liberal and imperialist Democratic presidential nominee?

      “The lesser evil is still evil.” “Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good.” “Trump!“ The Supreme Court!” ‘Round and ‘round we go. It is a frustrating, enervating, and, in the U.S. electoral duopoly, inescapable ritual.

      Not just because Bernie—and, more importantly, Bernie’s agenda—is out of the picture, but because of the way he was taken out of the picture by the Democrats, the situation of extraordinary crisis in which it happened, and the horrible-on-every-level leading man the party settled on, 2020 has given us a gloriously clear version of a Hobson’s choice.

      I won’t be voting for Joe Biden. Here’s why, and here’s what I make of the arguments why I should vote Biden no matter what, a corollary of Vote Blue No Matter Who (VBNMW).

      More: https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/24/joe-or-no/

      "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime" - Aristotle "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine" - George Bernard Shaw "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK #SurviveAndRevolt

    • #307647
      alcina
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 745

      Excellent article that should be read by anyone considering to Vote Blue Not Matter Who.

      "The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them." -Julius Nyerere, First President of Tanzania

    • #307649
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 18,756

      Bookmarking.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #307650
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,574

      I intend to leave it blank, thereby contributing to the undervote for president. But I could just as easily vote for Biden or Trump, depending on how I feel on election day. Biden is not nearly as evil and destructive as Trump, so I can see  why many progressives will choke down their gagging and vote for him. A Trump victory would send a message to the donkey party, although they would see it as a reason to stomp out all progressivism. I’m looking past this election, thinking there must be some way to encourage progressive candidates at the state and local level, perhaps by infiltrating both parties. After all, the original Progressive movement was composed largely of Republicans. So no Joe for me, although I probably will feel relief at Trump’s departure.

    • #307653
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,456

      They give us idiots because they are idiots. It’s the out of control rats in North East India syndrome.

      Every 50 years the bamboo begins to flower and the rats have an almost unlimited supply of food…..then they breed, and breed, and breed.

      But the flowers aren’t around for long, just one season. So all those breeding rats no longer have easy food. So, they starting eating everything around them. They eat the rice fields, they eat the stored grains, they eat the grass and weeds. They leave nothing behind them. Eventually, they start eating their own.

      This is what the filthy rich are doing. They are eating everything. They breed but it is not their numbers that overwhelm the environment, it’s their size. They get bigger and bigger and need more and more to feed their huge gross filthiness.

      We are in the eating everything stage. The filthy rich are out of control. They will devour everything and then they will eat each other. And when they are the biggest fattest one remaining, they die leaving behind total destruction.

    • #307654
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,574

      Kavanagh illustrates quite well how the Democratic Party warns us of impending fascism if we fail to elect their candidate to fight fascism. So we elect their candidate and get… wait for it… fascism.

    • #307655
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,803

      Which particular rich prick do we want to be President as the human race continues to run right off a fucking cliff?  Maybe have Trump AND Biden both be President, at least the daily briefings would be hilarious.

    • #307666
      David the Gnome
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      • Total Posts: 2,803
    • #307680
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,372

      The elections in US has lost all meaning.  The voters have no voice in the whole process.

    • #307692
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,198

      Nyet.

      I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Hillary. With hindsight I know that voting for neither was the right thing to do.

      Things have not changed enough for me to vote for Trump nor will I vote for Biden.

      Did the Russians put me up to this? Nine! (I think that is how one spells the word “no” in German.) In the space for President, my ballot will contain “nicht”…again.

      • #307946
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 18,756

        Just so you know.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #307708
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,469

      Look beyond the hype and the short term thinking. Trump is the lesser evil. I have tried to explain how I come to that assessment, but always fall into incoherent rage against both men.

    • #307719
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,913

      I don’t vote conservative.That is all.

    • #307740
      Rocky
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 170

      Jesse Ventura recently said he will vote Green. But in September he said he was working behind the scenes quietly and would wait until the race is down to two candidates and pull out a surprise. I don’t know if he’ll jump in or how he would even get on the ballot but it may shake things up. If he does, like Nader and Stein, he’ll be blamed, along with us progressives, for Biden losing. Unless people are so sick of this corrupt duopoly that he wins.

      I'm just tryin' to get by being quiet and shy,
      In a world full of pushin' and shove.

      Jimmy Buffett, "The Wino and I Know"

    • #307880
      Betty Karlson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 467

      Please consider that it’s the same line they trot out every four years, jacked up this year to Hitler level because it’s got to be worse than, and you need to forget, the previous overstatements. The Democrats have spent the last four years focusing all your attention on demonizing Donald Trump as a Nazi-Russian agent, rather than analyzing the structural problems of U.S. capitalism that produced him, precisely in order to get you to accept that line for Election 2020. But this time, like every time before, it really is different? Abusive relationship, anyone?

       

      This is my big concern: every time we are supposed to accept an authoritarian corporatist further to the right, is every time the plans are laid for a Republican to the even further right. And because the DNC and its allies always overstate the case against that Republican, they create the mental space for the thought: o well it’s not that bad and anyway I can’t trust what the Democrats are saying.

      This is how we got Trump. Biden is how we get someone worse than Trump.

    • #307898
      Snort McDork
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,407

      .

      I'm Snort McDork and I approved this message.

      "I like birdy num-nums"

    • #307900
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,885

      To me it doesn’t matter how far to the left Biden moves. I can’t vote for him because of Tara Reid and Lucy Flores among others.

      This is on top of all the reasons that make Biden a bad candidate.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

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