Krystal Ball: Tulsi Gabbard surges, is she the most electable?

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  • #221053

    Voltairine
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    @voltairine

    Having fun with corporate dems who keep on saying that party needs candidate with cross over appeal to defeat republican candidate, but spit on Gabbard who has very progressive position on most issues AND strong cross over appeal, as well as all the woke idpol requirements:

    Aloha!

  • #221107

    sonofspy777
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    @sonofspy777

    No Bernie is the most electable. What will they do when their rigged polls are completely exposed for the lies they are?

    ““The average American today is underpaid, overworked and stressed out as to what the future will bring for his or her children. For many, the American dream has become a nightmare.”." ~Bernie Sanders

    • #221131

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      Here’s the poll, polls are what they are – not very trustworthy I agree. https://poll.qu.edu/new-hampshire/release-detail?ReleaseID=3648

      Gabbard surge is very strong also in various analysis of internet data, where Sanders is also strong. Krystall Ball is not presenting personal opinion about electability, just commenting on what the poll data shows, that Tulsi strong among antiestablishment independents and moderates/conservatives in open primary state, and taking a jibe at democratic establishment standard propaganda.

      Aloha!

  • #221137

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    Don’t get your hopes up. Remember a candidate has to get 15% of the vote in Iowa and New Hampshire to win any delegates to the Convention. It could change, but right now Tulsi has a nice fat zero. I also don’t think she cares.

    I love having her voice in the primary, and I can easily see her being a great Secretary of State or something, but I’m voting for Bernie in the primary and my mind will not change. Most Bernie supporters feel the same way, and he has a far easier path to the nomination than does Tulsi.

    And she’s not helping herself with her fake Medicare for All. For most American progressives, real Medicare for All is a nonnegotiable demand. Tulsi won’t meet it. Tulsi won’t get our votes.

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

    • #221147

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      There’s still plenty of time to keep on doing footwork and Tulsi getting 15% or more is well within possible in New Hampshire open primary. She’s calling her plan Single Payer Plus to avoid the naming confusion that Warren and Yang are guilty off. I think most important goal is to get universal health care to all, more important than taking the dogmatic stand you describe – which I grant can be good tactical position to start negotiating compromises in Congress, but as such has little chance to gain enough bipartisan support and pass.

      Aloha!

      • #221212

        Ohio Barbarian
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        @ohiobarbarian

        @voltairine

        It always is impossible until it is done.–Nelson Mandela

        The same thing was said about the 40 hour work week, civil rights, environmental legislation, gay rights, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and Food Stamps right up until they happened.

        We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

        With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

        • #221243

          Voltairine
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          @voltairine

          It always is impossible until it is done.

          Yup. Tulsi 2020! :)

          Aloha!

          • #221245

            Ohio Barbarian
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            @ohiobarbarian

            Nice comeback.

            We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

            With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

    • #221216

      Tokenlib
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      @tokenlib

      It’s Bernie first and always. For us with global warming and with Bernie, this is probably the final crusade, there is no middle ground, he knows it and so do we. Four more years may be too late for the planet.

      Single Payer Plus really did disappoint me on Tulsi. I’m with you on this. The health insurance companies need “stakes through their hearts,”not a continued chance to sabotage the system. But Tulsi still has a lot to offer, and in the end I hope she comes in strong for Bernie again.

       

       

  • #221200

    game meat
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    @gamemeat

    I don’t know about surging lol. Improving sure, but well under 10% is hardly surging. And she can’t milk the Clinton controversy forever.

    She may have some cross over appeal, but she’s still very niche. From what I’ve seen, Tulsi supporters generally tend to be the sort of people for whom foreign policy is not only their number one, but also their number two, three, four….number 20 issue. I’m not knocking that way of thinking. People are entitled to have their priorities. Just an observation.

    As important as that may be, it still isn’t everything, and she is underwhelming at best on pretty much everything else. Not supporting the GND, supporting h1b visas, the wishy washy healthcare plan.

    If by some miracle, she won the nomination, I might vote for her, which is more than I can say for anyone else not Sanders, but I don’t really trust her, so it wouldn’t be enthusiastic support.

     

    • #221214

      djean111
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      @djean111

      @gamemeat

      I am pretty much with you.  The h-1b visa thing shows a lack of care for workers in the US, really.  I don’t think there is any chance whatsoever of Gabbard getting the nomination, though.  Personally, “electability” is not on my list of what I want in a candidate.  And I will stick with Bernie.  Bernie or Green, depending on how things shake out.

      I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

      Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

    • #221223

      JonLP
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      Foreign policy is one of my most important issues but I am a veteran with a disability from war so I don’t want more people to end up like me or worse. We also had someone die in our unit too.

      https://www.iraqwarheroes.org/bowmanl.htm

      Plus on other issues she is great.

      https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/tulsi-gabbard/

       

      I have problems with H1B Visa mainly that they artificially keep wages low for all workers and they don’t allow generally for someone to leave Google for Apple for better wages, benefits, etc. Also someone founded a US company but is unable to work for it on a student Visa. I prefer Green cards but I’ll tell you H1B Visa is not my most important issue.

      Tulsi Gabbard - "Not only are they saying that about me, they are basically sending this message out to every veteran in this country, every service member, every American, anyone watching at home fighting for peace and who was calling for an end to these regime change wars ... they are saying that you are also a Russian asset, that you are also a traitor to this country,"

    • #221228

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      Not supporting GND? She did better, Gabbard came into politics as environmental activist, and took initiative with her OFF act in 2017:
      https://gabbard.house.gov/OffAct

      What’s wrong supporting H1B visas and opposing Trump administration plans?
      https://www.firstpost.com/world/h-1b-visa-rule-change-us-congress-members-oppose-trump-administrations-plan-say-it-will-tear-families-apart-4288727.html

      I would rather call health care plan that has very little chance of passing Congress and guaranteeing universal health care to all people ASAP “wishy washy”, but matter of taste.

      Aloha!

      • #221250

        game meat
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        @gamemeat

        The thing with not supporting the GND is that there was no logical reason to oppose it. It was literally just asking the pols if they intended to fight climate change or not. Her excuse about being “concerned” about parts of it was nonsense because it was a non-binding resolution, only aspirational and carrying no legal weight. It went without saying there were miles to go before any actual legislation came from it. Just dodgy on its own regardless of what she may have done before

        H1b visas are known to drive down wages. That’s why big tech supports them. Anyone supporting them shows a lack of respect for the American worker. Even for the type of person who hates or doesn’t care about native born workers and calls them racists for complaining about stuff like this, only caring about the symbolic value of H1b visas in relation to being pro immigrant, should at least be concerned. Those imported workers have their legal status bound to, and at the mercy of, the company who brought them in on the visa. They have no leverage in any way since they can’t take a job from a different company. It just drives down wages by creating artificial competition, leaving American workers shit out of luck by exploiting foreign labor.

        As for a healthcare, a matter of taste, clearly.

        • #221333

          Voltairine
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          @voltairine

          What when GND non-binding resolution do you mean? From what I see, Tulsi takes her legislative work very seriously as a legislator, not so much woke signaling of good intentions that mean nothing in practice. And she has already presented actual legislation, the OFF act endorsed by numerous environmental organizations and experts. The real question is, why aren’t other progressives endorsing, supporting and amending the OFF act and doing the actual legislative work they are supposed to do, but making empty non-binding political gestures? Like, seriously!!!? Why fuck around and play political games when you should be doing what you were elected to do, serving people as legislator?

          When was H1B created, in the first place? All I know that Gabbard opposed Trump admin to not harm people currently working on H1B, to separate them from their families etc. Humans first. Any case, that is just one detail in the whole of immigration policy, which all agree needs total overhaul to avoid wage dumping both domestically and internationally, and to treat fellow human beings humanely.

          Aloha!

          • #221334

            JonLP
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            @jonlp

            Thanks for the clarification regarding the H1B issue. That makes a lot more sense. I oppose Trump’s immigration policies as well.

            Tulsi Gabbard - "Not only are they saying that about me, they are basically sending this message out to every veteran in this country, every service member, every American, anyone watching at home fighting for peace and who was calling for an end to these regime change wars ... they are saying that you are also a Russian asset, that you are also a traitor to this country,"

            • #221346

              game meat
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              @gamemeat

              Except it’s demonstrably false. She has always been a big supporter of H1b visas. Trump has nothing to do with it.

              From 2014: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/congresswoman-tulsi-gabbard-in-india-today/18313.html

              The Congresswoman from Hawaii will discuss issues such as advancing common global interests, including counter-terrorism and military cooperation, harnessing the potential of India’s high skilled work force via H-1B visas and tourism promotion, a media release said.

              But it doesn’t really matter. People will just rationalize how this is actually a good thing, or how it’s a non issue, or just move the goal posts. ho hum.

               

               

               

              • #221412

                JonLP
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                @jonlp

                Thanks for the information. I have my own problems with H1B Visa but foreign policy such as bombing poor people & ending forever & regime change wars, health care, expanding social security (not sure where Tulsi stands on this but I support Sanders as my first choice), legalizing marijuana, criminal justice reform, ending mass incarceration, ending abuses of the fourth amendment, ending private prisons. There is along list before I get to H1B1 Visa which I support reforming & improving.

                Tulsi Gabbard - "Not only are they saying that about me, they are basically sending this message out to every veteran in this country, every service member, every American, anyone watching at home fighting for peace and who was calling for an end to these regime change wars ... they are saying that you are also a Russian asset, that you are also a traitor to this country,"

          • #221400

            game meat
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            @gamemeat

            GND (Green New Deal) It’s not an empty political gesture, but a starting point, the goal being that meaningful legislation results from it. Sure, they should have supported her OFF act, but that argument works both ways. She should have supported the GND.

            • #221409

              Voltairine
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              @voltairine

              Do you refer to the AOC initiative? From what I know, it was quite horribly shallow and misguided. Sanders’ own GND plan, as presented on his campaign website is serious and worth detailed comparison with OFF act. I don’t think legislators should commit to very bad legislation, especially when they already have motioned a much better bill.

              I support serious, issue based legislative work much more that games of “who plays with whom” and empty gesturing with hasty resolution that was only too easy target to shoot down and mock by political opponents, and gave the whole effort of GND (which goes way back) loads of bad publicity. AOC has lots of youthful enthousiasm, but she’s also not very experienced and not always very wise.

              Aloha!

              • #221415

                game meat
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                @gamemeat

                Well, GND was the one that got bad publicity because it got publicity. Any climate change initiative will be vilified, and made to look crazy, impossible, etc.

                Regardless of how silly you think it is, it was good enough for Sanders to back as well as numerous prominent environmental groups.

                I don’t pretend to like everything about it, but if that’s what’s there, then that’s what’s there. I’m not even on the AOC bandwagon. I’d support whichever bill had the best chance, including Tulsi’s. Personally,  I don’t care whose bill it is, what it’s called, or what mean things climate deniers say about it. I don’t care “who plays with whom” or if the candidate I’m supporting cosponsored it or not.

                 

                • #221490

                  Voltairine
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                  @voltairine

                  I agree, pushing Sanders to the more progressive side on this issue was a positive, though rather late achievement. And it got much publicity also because it was way too easy to vilify, and the promoters lacked good counterarguments to convince public when they were given publicity. All for greater good, but in the end you have to do the tedious hard work of getting all the details right so that 1) the legislation really makes practical sense and 2) you get enough votes in Congress to support it.

                  Aloha!

    • #221249

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      As for surge, Tulsi has been surging strong on various Internet measurements. People who actively search and follow information on Internet, become more informed, and continue to inform their friends and relatives also in their IRL social spheres, effects of which becomes visible to polls only afterwards, if at all. And Tulsi has the effect that she grows on you, in most cases the more you see her the more you like.

      What is weird is that non-partisan authentic unifier is considered “niche”, that tells more of the current ultra-partisan state of American society and public discourse and the need for healing than anything else.

      Aloha!

  • #221305

    bazukhov
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    @bazukhov

    Electable?   No.  Winning the nomination is necessary to being elected.

    Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

  • #221309

    Babel 17
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    @babel17

    Gabbard has (maybe) laid a trap for Clinton. Either Clinton issues an apology, or Gabbard will call her out as the worst kind of coward, the sneaky, bullying, war mongering, proxy using, kind, and Congresswoman Gabbard might call out Clinton as a war monger and a coward while on stage, and demand that she either apologize or face Gabbard on stage in the debates, or a one on one.

    She’ll point out that Clinton was a terrible campaigner, and it was she that led the party to a historic defeat while outspending her opponent two to one, and having the media at her back. She lost to a game show host, and now she wants to smear a combat veteran, rather than accept the blame for her loss, while she herself never had the gumption to wage war in person, instead of cackling in glee while she waged it remotely.

    Clinton lost to the Orange Man because the voters saw her as dishonest and corrupt.

    Oh yeah, I think Gabbard might go there. And I think Jill Stein might want a piece of the action. The floodgates might open on Clinton as Gabbard will have paved the way for everybody who’s held back to finally feel able to vent.

    And Hillary won’t have Bill to take on Tulsi, not when her rejoinder will be so easy to make, and with the media salivating for her to make it.

    Ditto that for Chelsea.

    https://www.tulsi2020.com/

    • #221340

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      “Senator Warren, unlike my good friend Bernie, you have said nothing about the slanderous accusations from Hillary, whom you endorsed 2016. Do you agree with Hillary, or that she was way out of line and owes me public apology?”

      Aloha!

    • #221341

      Calico
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      @calico

      Epic post, Babel!

      Tulsi appears to be just the fearless, relentless person needed to finally call out Clinton on her shit. Everyone else tiptoes around her power, out of fear of ending up on her hit list. Clinton has already done her worst to Tulsi, short of death. Time to take her down.

      However, I doubt that Clinton has any sense of shame at all. Narcissists never do. Total public shunning is the only thing that would really get under her skin, and that includes no negative attention as well.

    • #221401

      Robot X
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      @robotx

      Please! Please! Please! A truth carpet bombing of Iraqi proportions is needed here. The Queen of war mongers needs to called out for her incompetence, lying, and cowardice on the national stage.

      • #221503

        Ohio Barbarian
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        @ohiobarbarian

        @robotx That’s a big Amen! and Hallelujah! if it ever happens.

        I do confess I’ve enjoyed Tulsi Gabbard’s response to Clinton’s smears. Very much indeed. All Tulsi has to do is tell the truth.

        We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

        With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #221336

    MistaP
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    @mistap

    happy medium, Gabbard 2024

  • #221475

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    OK, I finally watched the whole video. You do understand that Krystal was aiming a whole lot of and satire right at the Vichy Democrats, or the Democratic Party establishment, right? She was using true things about Tulsi–a young woman of color, a Hindu, a veteran, all these ID boxes checked; plus someone who appeals to both their precious moderates(whatever that means anymore) and some conservatives–to illustrate in neon just how hypocritical and untrustworthy and icky slimy the Vichy Dems are.

    Frankly, I have a better chance of running for Congress and winning than Tulsi does of winning the nomination outright. I can, however, make a very strong argument for her as Vice-President, especially if Bernie decides to be the terminator of the Democratic power elite. After all, with Bernie and Tulsi, the Democrats are still a big tent party!

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

    • #221500

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      You ask me? I thought my introductory comment “Having fun…” made clear that I got the sarcasm against Vichy Dems very well. I also see that Tulsi is  campaigning totally seriously for as many delegates she can get, and while miracles can happen, Congressman OB, the more realistic ideal result is Sanders/Tulsi 2020 and Tulsi/? 2024 and 2028.

      Aloha!

      • #221504

        Ohio Barbarian
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        @ohiobarbarian

        Oh, I don’t know. I’d be a good Congressman.

        We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

        With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

        • #221594

          Voltairine
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          @voltairine

          Make Aloha Great Again!

          Aloha!

  • #221486

    chknltl
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    @chknltl

    Bernie is my first choice. Tulsi is my second.

    I would like to add a perspective that perhaps is MFA relatable.

    As a photographer I tell people this little parable:

    If your house catches fire, the first thing one rushes into the house to rescue are one’s loved ones. The second thing one rushes back in for is one’s pets and the third most important thing one goes back for are one’s family photos.

    I support Bernie Sanders because he thinks that saving everone in the burning house is more important than saving the house.

    THAT’s the difference between a capitalist and a democratic socialist in my opinion.

    Every conservative I talk to seems to think that corporatism is just fine. They think that it is the rich who are the job providers, they call the homeless lazy.

    Our collective house IS on fire. The time to rescue ALL of us is now. It matters not if you are homeless or a retired pensioner sitting at home watching FOX/MSNBC propaganda.

    Medicare For All is a step out of the fire for everyone.

    • #221505

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      +1000

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #221515

    a little weird
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    @alittleweird

    That was a good segment.  I think Krystal enjoys trolling the “top tier” candidates a little bit.

    I don’t support Tulsi but I’m glad she will make the debate and that she’s fighting back against the smears of the establishment politicians and media.  She’s spot on when it comes to her stance on regime change wars and she’s the only one who really ever brings it up.  Her M4A stance was the deal breaker for me although there are some other issues that I disagree with her on as well.

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