Kyiv prepares for a winter with no heat, water or power

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    • #497291
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 25,004

      (Politico) KYIV, Ukraine — The mayor of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital, is warning residents that they must prepare for the worst this winter if Russia keeps striking the country’s energy infrastructure — and that means having no electricity, water or heat in the freezing cold cannot be ruled out.

      “We are doing everything to avoid this. But let’s be frank, our enemies are doing everything for the city to be without heat, without electricity, without water supply, in general, so we all die. And the future of the country and the future of each of us depends on how prepared we are for different situations,” Mayor Vitali Klitschko told state media.

      A man sits in a cafe during a blackout.

      Russia has focused on striking Ukraine’s energy infrastructure over the last month, causing power shortages and rolling outages across the country. Kyiv was scheduled to have hourly rotating blackouts Sunday in parts of the city and the surrounding region.

      Rolling blackouts also were planned in the nearby Chernihiv, Cherkasy, Zhytomyr, Sumy, Kharkiv and Poltava regions, Ukraine’s state-owned energy operator, Ukrenergo, said.

      Full story here.

      Yet they say Ukraine is winning this war? 

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #497293
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,583

      As I’ve mentioned in other posts, we had a call from a family member an hour from Kyiv who called as she was sitting in the dark. Notice that the Internet was working to be able to make a call – I don’t know how that’s isolated from electric power, or if they are working on diesel backup generators for a while.

      Power outages are also happening in our small town outside of Dnipro.

    • #497301
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,528

      Where are all the calls for ceasefire?  Oh, that’s right, “progressive” democrats wrote a letter calling for it… Which they quickly retracted.  Yeah, they want the Ukrainians to bleed Russia dry.  The cost to Ukrainians seems to be irrelevant to our politicians and even to the UN.

      Our weapons are there, our troops are there, our money is there.  How many tens or hundreds of billions have been invested by the U.S. and other Countries?  Jeez, maybe we could offer Russia a deal, like… Stop attacking and we’ll stop helping the Ukrainians slaughter your troops?

      But no.  Even the so called “progressives” can’t seem to stand on a call for ceasefire.

      It is about weakening Russia to the point where they will kiss the ring.  I don’t think western Nations involved in this give any damn at all how many Ukrainians suffer and die in the meantime.

      Fucking fuckers.  Western Nations lack the balls to actually declare war OR support a ceasefire.  But we’ll keep sending weapons, supplies, even troops, so long as we can plead “plausible deniability” which everyone knows is total bull shit anyway.

      • #497974
        Woman Hear Me Roar!!
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 65

        Sadly David, none of really know what is going on with negotiations – and it appears that Russia is really NOT into ending this war.  Do you suggest that the US join the fight outright – that would almost guarantee nuclear destruction of the Ukraine.

        Sadly, when one is facing a mad man – there is little logic that will resolve the fight.

        Finally women are being heard...finally women are roaring.....

        • #498020
          Dunatus
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 825

          …if he thinks that this conflict will resolve in Ukraine’s favor. What’s more, there is no nuclear distruction that doesn’t involve the rest of the world. It won’t magically stay isolated to Ukraine. This whole conflict is about funnelling money to military contractors and oil companies. Biden and his team of malignant tumors have no fucks to give about the average Ukrainian beyond their use as cannon fodder to economically dominate Russia.

    • #497305
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,538

      The US should have supported Poland and France when they were invaded in 1939 and 1940 respectively … but the “America First” was too strong. We did nothing. When a country (the US, Russia, China, you-name-it) seeks to solve disputes using military power, the world should (should!) oppose it.

      That is what it means to be progressive. On an everyday basis, “If you don’t give me what I want or agree to my negotiation, I will punch you in the nose (invade your country) to get what I want.”

      Now it is MAGA types who want to abandon a European country invaded by a more powerful neighbor because a) they support the invasion or b) the help sent ot Ukraine should be used for AMERICANS.  America First, baby!

      When you think you have no choice but to start a war, think again. Wars promise to be quick, clean and decisive. Wars lie. They cause more problems than they solve, they just won't tell you that beforehand.

      "If we are to have peace on earth, ... our loyalties must transcend our race, our tribe, our class, and our nation; and this means we must develop a world perspective."

      • #497307
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,748

        on a daily basis, since 2014, in the Donbass.  For me, sending weapons to Ukraine is the equivalent of supporting the Azov Nazis.  The US does not give a flying fuck about the Ukrainian citizens, and props up those who consider Bandera a hero.  For the US to be whinging about how Russia reacted, where were all of these folks when the US invaded, couped, or interfered in what looks like most countries in the world.   If that makes me a MAGA, send me a hat and a t-shirt.

         

        America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

        "Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, 'How well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?'" GRRM

        A YouTube comment – we need new conspiracy theories – the old ones have all come true.

        • #497333
          closeupready
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 3,725

          nt

          The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #497344
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 25,004

        A guy whose handle has peace in it advocating to fund a proxy war against Russia, ruthlessly using the Ukrainian people in the pursuit of a neocon, imperialist, dream of American global hegemony. A guy who has always been horrified by the Holocaust and other genocides supporting people who openly declare their twisted Nazi ideology.

        A guy who must live in a very comfortable bubble to call Americans who can’t even afford a $500 emergency who want to see their own government help them instead of risking nuclear war selfish and greedy people.

        Meanwhile, a guy with Barbarian in his handle argues for peace with a nuclear-armed power that has demonstrated its responsibility to not use those weapons for 60 years instead of scaring the shit out of it.  Go figure.

        Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

        The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

        • #497488
          ozoneman
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 581
        • #497558
          peacecorps
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,538

          I would not have said, “You guys are on your own. If you cannot repel an invasion from a country with a stronger military, I feel bad for you but I am not doing anything to help you. We have problems of our own and our problems are more important than your problems.”

          If supporting help for Poland, France, the USSR, and now Ukraine makes me a supporter of American hegemony in your eyes, I guess I can live with that. Are you suggesting that the USSR should have given much of the western Soviet Union to Germany while the latter occupied it in late 1941 and 1942 in order to bring about peace?

          According to Medvedev, Russia is really fighting “crazy Nazi drug addicts” and Russia’s real goal is to “stop the supreme ruler of Hell, whatever name he uses – Satan, Lucifer or Iblis” by sending “all our enemies to fiery Gehenna”.

          Casting Ukraine = evil Nazis is as ridiculous as saying Russia = evil Communists. Does international law give countries the right to invade neighbors in order to rid them of ‘evil’ people? Or does each country get to decide whom it has the right to invade and why?

          When you think you have no choice but to start a war, think again. Wars promise to be quick, clean and decisive. Wars lie. They cause more problems than they solve, they just won't tell you that beforehand.

          "If we are to have peace on earth, ... our loyalties must transcend our race, our tribe, our class, and our nation; and this means we must develop a world perspective."

          • #497561
            Dunatus
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 825

            Come on, you can think this through better than this.

          • #498073
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 25,004

            Victoria Nuland called the shots in 2014 in her capacity as State Department Assistant Secretary for Eurasian Affairs. Under Obama. The US couped the Ukrainian government. The US backed openly and well-known Nazi militias in everything they did, including burning dozens of unarmed people alive in Odessa.

            They banned the Russian language. WTF, man? Are you for banning the Russian language that’s been taught in Ukrainian schools for generations alongside Ukrainian? If you are, are you also for banning the Spanish language in American schools?

            Plus, these Nazi thugs terrorized the Russian-speaking population until they revolted and drove them out of maybe a tenth of Ukraine. It was a civil war that the US wanted to happen so that they could use Ukraine as an imperial tool in a proxy war against Russia.

            And now we learn that money went from we the taxpayers at Biden’s behest to Ukraine, which sent part of it into a crypto currency bank called FTX, which then donated $45 million to Democrats in the midterm elections. Biden to Ukraine to fraudulent bank with ties to Hunter Biden to Democratic Party. What a perfect little circle.

            Nixon had nothing on today’s Democrats.

            Whatever. Watch Ukraine on Fire. It’ll open your eyes if you’re not too far gone into the liberal cult. Oliver Stone did a good job on this one, and I do not always see eye-to-eye with Oliver Stone.

            Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

            The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #497312
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,791

      Where was the United States then, when our leverage could have made a yooge difference in averting Russian intervention/invasion from becoming inevitable?

      Don't Kill the Whale
      Don't feed the trolls

    • #497569
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,528

      I honestly think that if our egocentric, belligerent politicians were willing to sit down and talk this out with both parties, a resolution could be reached.  Something neither side liked but both could live with.

      The problem is so many are still trying to fight the cold war.  Or they are calculating decisions to weaken Russia as much as possible.

      Most western media is extremely biased in their disdain for Russia.  Or for Putin in particular.  Yet it was the west that expanded NATO, that violated old agreements, that even now provides funding, troops and weaponry to Russia’s enemies.

      We could offer Russia a good deal.  In exchange for an end to this war, reduce or stop the sanctions, contingent upon their willingness to work with us.  For Ukraine, they need a shit ton of humanitarian aid and a rebuilding of at least a basic infrastructure.

      It won’t happen though.  There are no real good guys in this, no absolutely right side.  But damned if we couldn’t at least try harder.

      • #497570
        jbnw
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 9,583

        It was the Minsk I and Minsk II accords (after the first one was broken) and approved by the UN Security Council.

        Ukraine recently passed a law saying that they will not negotiate with Russia while Putin is President while Russia has repeatedly suggested that they are open to negotiations.

        And how can we (the US) negotiate and offer a good deal?  The US is officially not involved.  Well, except for arming one side, ignoring the Minsk accords which the US approved in the UN, and sanctioning Russia with the result of the destruction of Western economies.

        The US and the West have effectively destroyed Ukraine.  The latest “assistance” is in the form of loans which Ukraine has to start paying back over 35 years, and the latest US weapons support aren’t presents – they also have to be paid for.


        @davidthegnome

      • #497579
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,748

        It means that the US wants Russia to bend the knee.  Nope.  Won’t happen, no matter how many wet dreams some folks are having.

        Already – and this cannot be undone, IMO – many countries are actively moving to de-dollarization, BRICS is picking up more countries, countries are saying hey, if the US can and fucking WILL freeze and seieze Russia’s dollars and assets, it would do the same to any of us if WE do not bend the knee.  So why keep reserves in money that the US can freeze?  This war has been quite a catalyst.  Like Putin said, one country should not rule the world.  Using death and debt and rules it makes up out of its ass when convenient.  That do not apply to itself.  Blowing up Gazprom One seems to have hurt the EU, not Russia.  Why would anyone want or be required to “work with” the US?   Oh, and evidently all those Draconian sanctions?  I hear the big banks  are still working with Russia.

        https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/11/08/business/us-baks-russia-ties/

        BLOOMBERG – Deep into a seven-hour congressional hearing on Sept. 21, JPMorgan Chase & Co. CEO Jamie Dimon was in the hot seat, with Representative Brad Sherman, a Democrat from California, pressing him on whether his bank would sever ties with Russian companies, including energy giant Gazprom PJSC.

        Banks like Dimon’s, Sherman argued, were exploiting a sanctions loophole to keep doing business in Russia despite its invasion of Ukraine.

        “We are following the instructions of the American government as they asked us to do it,” Dimon responded before Sherman cut him off, setting his sights on Citigroup Inc.’s Jane Fraser with a similar inquiry.

        The exchange put on display how the country’s largest banks are caught on sanctions in the push-pull between Congress and the administration of U.S. President Joe Biden. Behind the scenes, the Treasury and State Departments have urged banking giants, including JPMorgan and Citigroup, to keep doing business with certain strategic Russian firms, according to people familiar with the situation.

        An edifice built of lies.  That’s our government.

        America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

        "Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, 'How well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?'" GRRM

        A YouTube comment – we need new conspiracy theories – the old ones have all come true.

    • #497494
      Dunatus
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 825

      They were sold out by their government and delivered into the hands of the US capitalist hegemony. The fact that they still have power at all underscores the underwealming destructiveness of the conflict. Had it been the US they would have nothing at all.

    • #497498
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 25,004

      Or before them the Poles, Austrians, and Hungarians. None of this was ever about the Ukrainian people or their freedom, only imperial fantasies and lots and lots of profits. If the Empire cared about freedom, it would never use and elevate Nazis, but it’s been doing so for a long, long time.

      My wife has cousins in Lwow, as they pronounce it, and they’ve been without power for over a week. I want them to be able to turn their heat and lights back on. The Biden Administration doesn’t give a fuck.

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #497502
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,583

      the American people don’t care either.

      Or more likely the media is hiding the facts so they don’t know.

    • #497513
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 25,004

      Why should they? Their government certainly doesn’t.

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #497516
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,748

      No use in making promises that will not be kept.  Especially since our government really really does not care what the people think about this war or any other war.  Or inflation.  Or climate change.  Or anything, really.  The corporations and banks and the MIC are never up for reelection; they are always there, politicians come, and politicians go – after making a nice tidy profit.

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      "Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game. I assume the worst. What's the worst reason they could possibly have for saying what they say and doing what they do? Then I ask myself, 'How well does that reason explain what they say and what they do?'" GRRM

      A YouTube comment – we need new conspiracy theories – the old ones have all come true.

    • #497515
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,583

      rather than the citizens in the US, maybe?

      But that’s probably not known either.

      There’s probably a difference between those living in tents on the streets in the US (I see them anytime I travel through Portland, or drive my daughter to school) and those without electricity or water in Ukraine – but then, those living in tents don’t have electricity or water either.

    • #497525
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 25,004

      They have more immediate concerns. As do most of us, when you get right down to it. Most of us be broke, or not far from it. It’s draining enough just to keep going without feeling obliged to cheer tens of billions going to the other side of the world.

      All the morality and democracy propaganda works on most Americans for awhile, but never on all and not for long if Americans have existential worries at home. Truman was the most unpopular president in opinion poll history because of Korea and a recession at the same time.

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #497530
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,583

      But what I was trying to say is that the US Government cares more about their war with Russia than people living in Ukraine without power or water or caring about the people living in tents, without regular housing, power or water.

      And effectively abandoning US citizens is a failure of the US government.

      It’s the issue of the Ukrainian government that their citizens are living without power or water, especially as there were negotiated settlements almost a decade ago.


      @ohiobarbarian

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