LeGOAT

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    • #368566
      Cold Mountain Trail
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      • Total Posts: 12,404

      The argument over who is the greatest of all time (GOAT) in professional basketball is a philosophical one. From a material perspective, LeBron James is clearly vastly superior to who most talking heads see as the GOAT (Michael Jordan). LeBron has always been better at every conceivable skill, and has maintained his greatness for a much longer time.  Many people prefer Jordan (who by my calculations is no higher than 4th best ever behind Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabber (sic), but at least 50 spots ahead of Kobe)….

      The case for Jordan is that he accesses a sort of American spirit we can’t exactly see. LeBron is good at basketball. Jordan, the argument goes, is a winner...  LeBron is a more obvious case. He’s a genius, a skilled player, a physical athlete unlike any other we’ve seen, and that’s why he wins. Whatever drive he has is boring because unlike Jordan he’s much better than his peers. When LeBron wins it is self-evident.  Part of the argument has to do with the number of championships, with LeBron now at 4, and Jordan higher at 6. But anyone who is realistic knows LeBron always makes his bad teammates look good, routinely creating wide-open shots. This year LeBron had one other great player and the rest below average. For most of his years in Cleveland he didn’t have another all star by his side. Jordan always had Scottie Pippin.…LeBron has been the best player in the league for almost two decades and unlike many of his peers he shows up for the fans every game…Take any specific skill and Lebron is better.

      Jordan wins on charisma. Jordan’s character is a jerk, he doesn’t seem to care about society, he is a brand. He does it on his own. He’s a man for that. So the tired story of American neoliberalism goes. Work hard. Be cutthroat. Do it on your own. Market yourself. With Jordan it always felt you were at work. And just like work, it didn’t really matter who actually did the best job. It was always more about who had what it took to be a hard core capitalist…

      As soon as the artist ceases to be a charlatan he makes a society examine itself. LeBron brings beauty to the game, and soon the game becomes a game. It’s put in its perspective, forcing a deeper question…The meritocracy in America is not even based on merit. It is based on business. Who knows who and who will do what it takes to maintain hierarchy. LeBron may catch to Jordan in championships but he doesn’t need to. Winning, if you do it alone, is not what life is about… the interesting thing about the GOAT debate is not who the GOAT is (a case that’s not even close) but more so why Jordan ever even is held in the same league as LeBron, let alone almost universally put ahead of him…What the capitalist class doesn’t get is that success is measured outside of the primitive alienation it spouts as doctrine. When success happens it is when we have enough talent and creative spirit to exist outside of this reductive space of market servitude and risk it all to play.

      https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/13/legoat/

    • #368568
      N2Doc
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      • Total Posts: 8,843

      Why does there have to be one? Different eras. Who knows how Lebron would have held up in an era where players could clothesline their opponents, throw vicious elbows, and generally beat the crap out of each other. As well as having much more primitive medical and nutritional science available. Who knows how Jordan would have done in a league where offense is much more free, and players much more isolated from fans? Nobody. It is like the arguments about who is the best NFL QB of all time. The rules are so different now.

    • #368616
      Fasttense
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      • Total Posts: 1,567

      So, each have had some luck thrown their way. And each era passes the luck on in different ways. So, they were both good players and damn lucky.

    • #368734
      Cold Mountain Trail
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      • Total Posts: 12,404

      boy, not the kind of responses i was expecting

    • #368736
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 20,155

      Why? Because they let him travel. He’d run with the ball in his hands from midcourt with three huge strides and dunk it. If anything, the game’s a lot more physical now than it was before Jordan, IMHO.

      LeBron James is a narcissistic sports mercenary who goes to whichever team pays him the most and has the players most likely to get him a ring. My favorite NBA Finals of all time was watching Tim Duncan and the Spurs beat LeBron and the all-star cast of the South Beach Heat with old-school passing and defense.

      This year, I haven’t watched a minute of basketball. Or baseball. No way I’ll pay to do so. At least the NFL is still on free broadcast TV.

      Edit to add: And James is so stuck on himself he won’t even marry the mother of his kid, with whom he lives. Maybe that’s old-fashioned of me, but I don’t care. It’s all about ego with him. Duncan was a class act.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #368856
      JonLP
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      • Total Posts: 3,359

      He isn’t that focused on who pays him the most (virtually every team would give him a max contract but he limits his free agent destination to one or two choices) and he seemed to went to LA because he wanted a career in the entertainment industry. Last season LA was terrible so it wasn’t a title move.

      There was hand checking in Jordan’s era which tires out perimeter players and leads to shorter careers. Kendrick Perkins was made for that era.

       

      However, Lebron James is a better all-around player. You could say Jordan is the best guard of all time while LeBron is the best forward.

      The last thing I care about is his personal life especially since he doesn’t break any laws.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

      Like many public systems, GOP want to rip the battery out + say the whole car doesn’t work, so they can sell it for parts - AOC

    • #368857
      Hamlet
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      • Total Posts: 53

      Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Bird…all better than LeBron.

      Allen Iverson was pound for pound the best player in NBA history.

       

       

    • #368861
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,359

      I disagree with those that say it isn’t close. LeBron is a better shot blocker, passer, and rebounder. Jordan is a better jump shooter. It is a wash when it comes to defense. Jordan may be better at steals.

      Basketball is a sport where a lot of players specialize like Rodman but LeBron can do it all. Plus like the OP pointed out Jordan had Pippen the whole time who was one of the best defenders in NBA history.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

      Like many public systems, GOP want to rip the battery out + say the whole car doesn’t work, so they can sell it for parts - AOC

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