‘Man of my word’: Leaked audio seemingly sheds light on Biden’s efforts to pressure Poroshenko into firing Burisma investigator

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  • #317183

    jbnw
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    @jbnw

    This version from https://www.rt.com/news/489120-biden-poroshenko-burisma-shokin/ :

    Audio recordings released by Ukrainian MP Andrii Derkach allegedly offer confirmation that Joe Biden pressured former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to fire an attorney general in exchange for a billion-dollar loan.
    Former top Ukrainian prosecutor Viktor Shokin filed a criminal complaint in January, alleging that Biden had strong-armed Poroshenko into firing him while he was running multiple investigations into the Burisma gas company where Biden’s son Hunter was a board member.

    Biden himself has boasted publicly that he gave Poroshenko an ultimatum to fire Shokin or the offer of the $1 billion in loan guarantees would be rescinded – but the audio recordings, if they are legitimate, add new clarity to the controversy surrounding Shokin’s dismissal.

    Yes, it’s a story we know, but the released calls are the breaking news. Twitter responses (one thread at https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1262801164783009793 ) range from

    When you see calls released by a ProMoscow Ukrainian MP of the Sec of State @JohnKerry & VP @JoeBiden asking a thoroughly corrupt Prosecutor be removed before UKR can get US Tax dollars you’re listening to a thing called DIPLOMACY.

    (I’ve never heard blackmail called diplomacy before)

    and

    This is how it is supposed to be done. He had the full backing of the US Government, State Department, etc. as well as all of Europe. This is a nothing burger. He wasn’t seeking a personal favor, which is what Trump requested.

    (note Ukraine is not in that list)

    to

    Wow, there is no ambiguity for a Quid Pro quo happened.

    Have to see where/if this gets picked up —

  • #317186

    elias39
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    @elias39

    and it is what it is…strong-arming a foreign government.

  • #317194

    Two way street
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    @twowaystreet

    Herself could not do it any longer; Herself was going to run for President.  On the movement of arms from Lydia to Syria, Obama welcome a little help from the GOP/Senator from Arizona.

    2020 Campaign Season: We the People are in the fight for our lives and livelihoods.

    • #317418

      MistaP
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      @mistap

      Clinton was out 2013, but yes this is also to keep the Oval Office’s hands clean–Reagan used the NSC (and even the CIA was too vulnerable to audits, Casey posited a self-funded, autonomous, extralegal murder agency), Cheney had everything go through the Veep’s office to keep it hidden (Hersh found shit that he won’t talk about until the Beast dies)

      also everyone’s dancing around the fact that the 2014 “change of government” didn’t happen on its own, which’d mean admitting backing another coup and that many Ukrainians genuinely elect pro-Russia Presidents in the face of the anti-Russia candidate’s own cheating

  • #317195

    Babel 17
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    @babel17

    And that happened after they demanded that the existing one got immediately fired. And the United States maintained that insistence even though told in this phone call that the current prosecutor was OK.

    No ethical government would allow the father of the guy being investigated by the prosecutor have say in removing them, and then having say in the replacement prosecutor.

     

    • #317229

      jbnw
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      @jbnw
      • #317392

        Babel 17
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        @babel17

        @jbnw

        I was thinking of the USA, but the responsibility did apply to both sides. The optics were atrocious for regaining trust in the Ukrainian government. It’s as if the USA didn’t care about that, and Biden was the guy who could be utterly trusted to get the prosecutor fired, and he was also someone who couldn’t complain about bearing the onus for doing so. And Biden had the weight to make it happen, as he spoke with Obama’s full confidence in the matter.

        Republicans think the Obama DOJ was corrupt, and the same thing for Democrats and the Trump DOJ. But they can all agree that Germany or France or China had better not get on the phone and demand we fire a prosecutor, otherwise “financial consequences”.

        We wanted/want Ukraine to be less corrupt, but having the father of Hunter Biden being our new broom to help it sweep clean was laughably hypocritical on our part.

    • #317307

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      @babel17 The Ukrainian version of Stephen Colbert was elected by a large margin after all of this stuff happened, not to mention a simmering war with ethnic Russians, had been going on for years. They went from a pro-Russian government ousted in a German/American intelligence coup to a neo-Nazi regime beating the war drums to a comedian who wants peace with Russia.

      I think my wife’s distant Ukrainian cousins are trying to head in a more positive direction, and that our government should butt out and let them do just that.

      All that said, that Ukrainian prosecutor may well have been corrupt, I don’t know. I know damned well, however, that Joe Biden’s entire career is based on corruption.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

  • #317272

    snot
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    to me it seems that the interpretation of Biden’s actions as right or wrong depends on whether the fired investigator was actually doing a good job or not – i.e., was he fired because he wasn’t genuinely investigating, or because he was?   Naturally, the investigator himself says he was doing a good job, and Biden says he wasn’t; I feel I need some evidence besides what those two have to say about it.

    Am I missing something?

    Destruction is easy; creation is hard, but more interesting.

    • #317274

      jbnw
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      @jbnw

      First, Ukraine is a sovereign nation – we have no right to demand changes in their governmental structure.  I believe it is strictly forbidden by the Geneva Convention – likely elsewhere as well.

      Second, Poroshenko, the President of Ukraine, says in these recordings that there’s no evidence Shokin has done anything wrong but is demanding his resignation for Biden.

      And, of course, Shokin is investigating Burisma, where Biden’s son is on the board.  The investigation was dropped after Shokin was fired.

      I believe Shokin has asked to be reinstated now that Poroshenko has been replaced by Zelensky (by a huge election margin a year ago).  I don’t know the status of the request, though.

      @snot

    • #317276

      jbnw
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      @jbnw

      See https://johnsolomonreports.com/the-real-ukraine-controversy-an-activist-u-s-embassy-and-its-adherence-to-the-geneva-convention/ for a discission about US diplomatic involvement including

      The diplomat related that a more senior State official, David Hale, was about to travel to Ukraine and was prepping to be confronted about Yovanovitch’s comments. I remember the diplomat joking something to the effect of, “we always say that the Geneva Convention is optional for our Kiev staff.”

      I had friends from and in Ukraine during the Maidan revolution – I heard and saw stories that most Americans did not.  And some I wish I could erase from memory.

    • #317287

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

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