My Ukraine rant for the day: Maybe Russia should invade – it could be better for Ukrainians.

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    • #465850
      jbnw
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      • Total Posts: 7,434

      Ukraine has had a US-backed coup resulting in a civil war that’s now lasted 8 years and left tens of thousands dead (thanks, Joey).

      Now there’s all this talk that’s basically “Yay! Russia isn’t likely to invade!!” First, I don’t know if that’s true — Lavrov said today that “Moscow has run out of patience” and yesterday’s cyber attacks on Ukrainian government sites are being predictably blamed on Russia and a precursor to invasion. And Jake Sullivan says that Russia is planning a false flag operation – I don’t see any measures for peace.

      Ukraine has an arrest warrant for Poroshenko, the President the US installed, on the grounds of treason related to coal. Why coal? It’s in Donbass. Even the football (soccer) team is named Shakhtar – miners. Ukraine has cut itself off from many of its own resources during this civil war.

      Ukraine is also requiring women between 18 and 60 to register with the military, and created a volunteer Regional Defense Force, also between 18 and 60. This is all new – within the last month.

      What’s the result of eight years of this stupidity? From personal examples, there’s very little employment available. People go to work in Poland, where there IS work. Pipes are being stolen from buildings for a little bit of money – it’s happened in my wife’s building, creating quite a mess in the basement. There’s another former apartment building across the street – it’s now just a shell.

      She says that Ukrainians are now not even allowed to visit Russia, unless they have family, and virtually all direct connections are closed – flight and rail. Maybe a very expensive bus exists —

      So maybe Russia should come in and clean up this mess – maybe half the country – those who were happier when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, and those who enjoyed a good relationshp with Russia after 1991. Hopefully they wouldn’t stop at the Dnieper, as has been mentioned – that would divide cities that exist on both sides, like Dnipro.

      Maybe then western Ukraine could concentrate on its people instead of its army, and those in eastern Ukraine could have a normal life again when it becomes a part of Russia.

      Otherwise, there’s no timely resolution. The civil war will drag out thanks to the US and UK, and Ukrainians will continue to suffer. Zelenskyy is in office for another two years (he started with 76% of the vote, and now has support below Biden now at something like 23%) and Biden may still be in office for another three years, unless he dies or is removed by the 25th Amendment as incompetent.

      I will also say a friend of mine is a former Lieutenant in the Soviet Army. The idea horrifies him – as he says, the Russian army is very efficient. Resistance would be crushed – but I don’t know how much resistance would exist in eastern Ukraine and the Odessa region.

      But all the discussions lately are about war – I never hear how to improve the life of the people of Ukraine.

    • #465855
      GZeusH
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      • Total Posts: 4,747

      Alternative #2 is for Poland and Lithuania to invade and run the lands west of the Dniepr.  Kind of like the way it was in the 1600s.

      Ukrainians don’t have much experience running a modern, civilized country.  Being flat and not very easy to defend, someone is always looking for lebensraum, and they just move in.

      Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

      My pronouns: vuestra merced, monsieur, господин, pana Bogu, πανίσχυρος Δίας

    • #465860
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 22,626

      Paratroop landings, coordinated air, artillery and ground assaults in overwhelming force. There will be no “softening up” with just air strikes for days or weeks beforehand like the Americans love to do. They might even land Marines in Odessa and seize the city in a few hours.

      I don’t want to see this, but that nest of Nazis in Kyiv really need to go. Talk about the lesser of two evils! Putin or neo-Nazis. Some choice.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #465866
        jbnw
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 7,434

        No matter how he’s presented by the rest of the world, it always feels as though he puts his citizens first.

        I am reminded by his end of the year press conference, open to citizens. It went four hours. Imagine how that would turn out if Biden actually talked to citizens in the US! It didn’t go so well when he did during his campaign . . .

    • #465897
      Earthartist
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      • Total Posts: 1,733

      Jbnw I feel really bad I know this shit hits close to home for you and I am sorry.  The US is circling the drain as we speak I was back to looking at houses in Baja.  I have no faith in anything our so called leader say or do it has been all lies for years now. We do not have diplomats because we no longer bother to educate our people.  My husband i think is coming around he was asking me what happened with the talks. He then asked what will happen well I said more Russia Russia Russia coming to get Ukraine. He asked why would they? I said they wouldn’t they have been very clear they have enough of Russia to look after and do not want to deal with a failed state. Why Crimea? It is all Russian as are Donbas and Luhansk. The funny thing is he totally got the size thing he is an engineer so I think that clicked lol. I asked him what he had seen on American news. Nothing

      Earthartist

      • #465903
        jbnw
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 7,434

        @earthartist it is appreciated. Yes, eastern Ukraine would be a recovery effort for Russia, as Crimea was.  However, you can see the bridge Russia built quickly to Crimea!

        And yes – we are proceeding with immigration to the US for my family, but she’s not certain with issues such as gun violence (incredibly rare there) and how expensive healthcare is in the US, if you are lucky enough to get it.

        Our next meeting is likely to be in Moscow – if Biden doesn’t break diplomatic relations with Russia, and they can find a path from Ukraine to Moscow. It used to be a ten hour or so train ride – since shut down by Ukraine.

        And one trivial point that I know you will understand. They’re still Ukrainian in Donbass and Luhansk. They just have Russian as their native language, and ties to Russian culture. It’s like my wife – she’s Ukrainian, but Russian is her native language, and her son is in Moscow.

        Kyiv is waging a war against its own citizens in the east – they are Ukrainians too.

    • #465914
      ozoneman
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 428

      Personally, I think the Russian part of Ukraine is best to be part of Russia. And they have Russian citizenship now.

      I appreciate your posts jbnw!

      • #465935
        jbnw
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 7,434

        Well, mostly 😉 Some days it’s a little frustrating to see how the US and western media is, well, very selective!

        Thanks, @ozoneman !

    • #465949
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,794

      Basically, it’s on you to ensure that basic services like water, sanitation, and electricity, don’t disappear because of your actions, with no plan for restoring them.

      That standard is what made the destruction of Iraq, Libya, and parts of Syria, war crimes.

      I’m talking about a discretionary invasion, retaliating in defense of yourself comes with a different standard. (Which is part of why our government lying about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq remains a big deal)

    • #466031
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,248

      the Ukrainian people.”

      Some claim that the “Russians are coming!” hysteria re. Ukraine is just PR to make Biden look tough when Russia does not invade Ukraine – which it never intended to do anyway. How gullible are Americans that they buy BS like this!

      Now the opposite: If the “Russians really are coming”, that is not hysteria but a good thing, i.e. using military force to ‘liberate’ oppressed people is what big countries get to do smaller ones that do not adhere to what ‘big brother’ wants them to do.

       

      Events/statements which fit my world view require no 'evidence'. Those that offend my world view will never convince me with their 'evidence' (though I will still demand it).

      If you post something that the 'bad guys' said or did, I will not address or react to that directly. Instead I will come back with a 'whatabout' diversion that focuses on the 'other guys' said or did, or will 'undoubtedly' say or do.

      • #466041
        jbnw
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 7,434

        It’s a civil war of those in the west who hate anything to do with the Soviet past or Russia, against those in the east who have Russian heritage or ties.

        And it’s Biden who sends arms to western Ukraine rather than pressing them to implement the peace accords they signed in 2014 and 2015.

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