Need help, Hunter Biden, Burisma. Was this corruption?

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    • #378328
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,191

      Most of my extended family are Trump supporters but I do have a brother who is not. I suppose that makes two of us.

      That said he has taken to defend Biden over Trump. That is not a position I support but to each their own.

      While debating with him such things as M4A and UBI we got into the weeds when I pointed out to him that Joe Biden was just another old school corrupt corporatist.

      When I brought up the Hunter Biden/Burisma example, he wanted me to provide details for him. IMO, he wanted to knock down my argument. Oddly enough, he did not even know who Hunter Biden was! FWIW, he even argued that having a drug record should not have had any bearing on my argument, we all make mistakes ya know.

      Later, I presented him with one of my copies of the book, UTOPIOA FOR REALISTS by Rutger Bregman. The book focuses on three basic points: UBI, a 15 hr workweek and open borders throughout the globe. I had hopes that at least my brother could see the history and data regarding UBI instead of shrugging my argument off as mere opinion based on someone else’s opinion based yet again on no relevant history or data.

      OK so he took the book…grudgingly, most likely in order to find “AHA-Gotcha” moments to prove me wrong.

      So here it is a couple weeks later, I get a call from him and he wants to drop by in order to, (in his words), “debunk” the Hunter Biden corruption issue I had mentioned earlier.

      I’ve read the summary from: “U.S. Senate Committee on Finance Majority Report regarding Hunter Biden, Burisma, and corruption: The Impact on U.S. Government Policy and Related Concerns”.

      It is a bit of a maze but from what I can tell Hunter Biden made a pile of money and it appears to me that this whole matter further wound beyond money into the realm of influencing a sitting Vice President.

      OK, so maybe I have an ace in my pocket, that ace would be you folks JPR. I know for a fact that some of you know quite a bit about the Biden/Burisma matter…certainly more than I do. If someone here would be kind enough to take the time to fill in some things for me I would be mighty appreciative.

      Chiefly, I would like to know if this was corruption. Ifso why and perhaps you might steer me to the details I need to have my ‘discussion’ with my brother.

      Thanks ahead of time for what help you may provide.

       

    • #378338
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,146

      https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/bidens-intervention-in-ukraine-and-ukraines-2016-election-meddling-are-matters-of-fact/


      @stockholmer

      You can also add the video where Biden brags about breaking the Geneva Convention non-intervention protocol to get the Prosecutor-General of Ukraine fired by withholding a billion dollars:

      https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

      Ukraine is investigating Joe Biden as well for this matter:

      https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/maybe-impeachment-proceedings-can-start-after-biden-is-sworn-in/


      @salemcourt

      If you really want, I can find the Ukrainian court documents where Biden is named as a conspirator.

      • #378344
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,191

        I am now pointed in the direction I needed and then some. You did that…yep you did that indeed! I knew JPR could come to my rescue! You sir, have my most profound gratitude. Now it is time for me to digest your links.

         

    • #378343
      jbnw
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      • Total Posts: 3,146
      • #378345
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,191

        I can not wait to sift through these links that you have provided. I will go quiet for a bit while going over them…for now. Thank you again

        • #378364
          jbnw
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 3,146

          I have friends from and in Ukraine – as one just said, Ukraine is in an unfortunate geographic location and will be caught in the middle of whatever comes in the future.

          I know some of the backstory and will be happy to help with additional answers if you need – but as I’m not from the Soviet Union (and I used that phrase intentionally) and it’s incomplete learned knowledge as people who lived there have.

          There’s also a long history of US involvement in Ukraine;

          http://photo.ukrinform.ua/eng/current/photo.php?id=585803

          shows US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland giving bread to protestors during the Maidan revolution under the Obama / Biden administration.

          Below is Voiny Sveta, Warriors of the Light, showing some of the Maidan revolution.

      • #378366
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,191

        Before diving into that matter, those links are providing me with exactly the material I need to argue my point. Thanks again for that.

        Moving on, I surfed a bit through that kyivpost link. While it was requested of me to sign up to Kyivpost for further info on this particular unrelated item, I am quite alarmed by what little I could read.

        The topic was about Ukraine U.S. relations moving forward under the Biden Administration. There were many subtopics to click on. The subtopic I did click on detailed how, (I paraphrase here), Poland has requested more U.S. (NATO?) troops deployed to their country.

        It gets worse. The Ukraine expects to see a buildup of U.S. forces including radar installations and missile, anti-missile batteries.

        I wanted to read more but the article fades out from there with a request to sign up if I wanted to read the entire article. Dear Lord, I hope that it was just an opinion piece but Obama was trying to move troops/was moving troops that way IIRC.

        If I further recall correctly, (I am 99.9% sure I heard this from Thom Hartmann back when I still listened to him and his guests), President Obama unsuccessfully tried to get Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel(sp?) to go along with his mad plans to station troops and equipment into those old Warsaw Pact regions like the Balkans, into Poland and etc. The German citizenry were fully up in arms over this! If I might paraphrase Hartmann: “The citizens of Germany well recall what took place the last time their Panzers operated in those areas”.

        How in the hell is what I just read supposed to ease current Neo-Cold War tensions between Russia and the U.S.? How can anyone in their right mind think it a good idea to squeeze more on the hair-trigger that is our current horrible relations with another nuclear superpower?

        Is Biden expected to carry on where Obama left off when it comes to our geopolitics with Europe and Asia?

        I was a kid who suffered through those “Duck and Cover Drills” back in the 1960s. We lived at Ft. Lewis, (now Joint Base Lewis McChord). We kids knew for a fact that we were at ‘Ground Zero’, that hiding under our desks with our hands ‘protecting’ our heads wasn’t going to do squat once the nuke show started.

        I have to wonder, how many folks my age have subliminal PTSD left over from those drills.

        I know that I have gone off into the weeds here from my original request but I want to make an assertion I know will be wildly unpopular here:

        President GHW Bush, with Howard(?) Baker and Soviet Prime Minister Gorbachev hammered out a pretty good ending to the First Cold War.

        Nobody won, nobody lost. That point was crucial to Gorbachev. A second point crucial to him: NATO does not set foot even one inch beyond the old Iron Curtain. In exchange, (and he knew how unpopular this exchange would be with his fellow Russians), in exchange the West would get East Germany.

        So please tell me why in the hell Bush Sr., Baker and Gorbachev didn’t get the Nobel Prize for Peace…but Obama did!!!

        Sorry about the off topic rant but as much as I despise President Trump, he did campaign on pulling us out of NATO (and/or making the other NATO countries pay their fair share instead of the American tax-payer carrying the load IIRC), and furthermore nominee Trump promised to make nice with Russia, (something I have long argued that he was blocked from doing even before he was sworn into office due to the Dems accusing him of benefitting from Russian interference in the election).

        Has Biden made any such promises?

        Again, sorry for going off topic but while corruption in our high offices angers me and makes for a fine debate topic, WWIII scares the f*@k out of me. The children of our planet should not have to suffer the fears I had as a child…or worse.

        rant over

         

         

    • #378358
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,132

      Yes.  He has no knowledge in this area.  Gets a position that pays millions,  his dad just happens to be the big pusher in the recent coup. His father just pushed to have the investigator of his sons company fired. Biden went on to brag about this to some of his corporate friends. Get the tape then ask your bother what he would think if this was Trump and his son?

      Earthartist

      • #378367
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,191

        I’ve now watched the video. I will show it to my brother along with the link which I spent some time reading just now that details exactly when VP Biden made that performance he bragged about in the video. Damning evidence right from the horses ass…oops I meant horses mouth.

    • #378362
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,431

      Same with hanging out with Epstein.  Or foundations that peddle influence for money.   That “D” after a name means “I can do whatever the fuck I want, and my minions will ‘splain it away”.   I expect to see people explaining to us why war and austerity and fracking are GOOD things.

      And yes, @earthartist, even though I will be called a #trumpenlefterlooperwtf, which I still find hilarious,  if Trump and his son did any of this, the outrage meters would be in the red zone and climbing.  And that is what I was supposed to fucking vote for.  Nope.

      • #378369
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,191

        I could not vote for either nimrod…(again).

        So I wrote in the name of one of my other brothers for POTUS. Doing so made us both smile.

    • #378543
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,191

       

      All of your arguments, all of your links are irrelevant.

      Why? Let me paraphrase him:

      “The Senate investigated this matter and found insufficient evidence to take the matter any further.”

      No amount of shouting, no amount of hair pulling on my part could get him to budge from that.

      He further claimed that if everything I/you folks claimed about the matter was true, it does not matter because politicians do favors for folks all the time.

      Accdg to brother, Biden’s involvement with his son getting and/or keeping a job in a foreign country is par for the course.

      I got nothing left in the tank. I know coruption when I see it. I guess one man’s coruption is another man’s politics as usual.

      Thank you all for helping me. It turns out that I bumped up against a horse with no desire to drink.

       

      • #378597
        jbnw
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,146

        Good effort, and it does sound like he acknowledged the corruption as business as usual – which unfortunately it is.

        Just because the US Senate doesn’t see it as corruption (politicians do favors for folks) doesn’t mean the Ukrainian Rada and courts won’t see the corruption – but that depends on politics as well. Poroshenko was voted out of office in the last Ukrainian election by 74% to 25%. That’s a real landslide, but Ukraine is still very pro-West.

        If the Republicans had wanted they could have brought up his quid pro quo during Trump’s impeachment trial (they only briefly mentioned it) but I suspect they didn’t want to damage a weak candidate for this election.

        We’ll see if anything comes out of the current FBI investigation or if that gets buried as well.


        @coldmountaintrail

        • #378604
          chknltl
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,191

          Thank you again for your help and your wisdom through all of this jbnw.

          I wanted my brother to understand why I could not vote for that corrupt corporate ass Joe Biden.

          My brother felt it more important to kick the legs out from under my chair.

          I am sick of arguments with folks who argue simply for the sake of being right.

          I am reminded that flat earthers, when presented with the data will go to great lengths to prove the data wrong or irrelevant or worse shoot the messenger.

          My issues throughout this was even getting him to look at the data.

          His just a bit ago responded to Joe bragging on the WSJ again…(at least he actually looked at it finally instead of informing me that it did not exist-that it was conspiracy theory made up by folks who don’t like Biden)…his response was: I watched the video, Joe did say that he would withhold the million dollars (loan) if that prosecutor wasn’t fired but he never said anything about Burisma or his son Hunter.

          I dunno, I e-mailed him the link of the timeline. I have no doubt that he will find fault with that too.

          I remember years ago, just before the ’08 stock market crash. Thom Hartmann warned us that it was coming very soon.

          My brother is quite wealthy so I passed along Thom’s warning.

          A year, maybe two later, after the crash, my brother decided to scream at me about it

          . He let me know that folks predict  stock market crashes all the time.

          He confessed to losing an insane amount of money but he had just made it all back.

          It taught me not to pass along finacial warnings to a multi-millionaire because obviously he is way smarter (and likely wealthier) than any source I would have contact with.

          The fact that I did warn him because I cared about him was simply lost in the one way shouting…he never got the point. The only thing important to him was proving me wrong.

          I see that is what he is doing here.

          For me, democracy means discussing with others what democracy is…and isn’t.

          For me, if we are to save it, We The People must talk about our democracy and how it is being stolen from us by corrupt capitalism.

          I do not take this duty to our country, (our planet actually), lightly…even with family.

          Thank you again.

           

          • #378610
            jbnw
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 3,146

            It’s still weird to me. Trump got impeached for asking Zelensky if he would investigate activities of a US citizen in Ukraine – and there’s a video of Biden saying Ukraine won’t receive the billion unless the Prosecutor General of the country is fired.

            He’s a long-term politican – he knows to hide the real reason, but this is blatant.

            Ukraine now does have a case open against Biden for this.

            But be happy you still have your brother to talk to! 🙂

    • #378594
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 10,610

      good thing to let it lie.  not worth losing a brother over.

      give it time…peoples’ perspective on politics constantly changes & a lot of that depends on their personal circumstances.

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